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Why Sikhs do not worship Idols

Because Idols itself is non living thing, so worshipping idol is Fake worship. If one have to worship by heart why to use idols? Even Guru Granth Sahib is not worshipped in Sikhism, because it's Holy BOOK, books are not wrshipped. It is called GUru because it contains wisdom which when enters in person then becomes Shabad Guru. Thousands bow before granth for it's wisdom but it is not guru for thousands, because only few have understand them. They are blindly calling it Guru, because we call it guru.

So it's not worshipped but admired or respect. If we will start worship BOOK(Granth) then again we are fools because again it is non living thing. Tomarrow i will start worshipping my Bed.

So Main concept is god resides in GHAT GHAT not KANN KANN. It resides in heart. We could get it from heart not by these worldly things.

Now if someone make Picture of guru, it's just imagination, but sir most of the people are stick to pictures, may be you do not know as you are in England. but i have seen in india and heard in most of countries.

Worshiping picture is again equal to worship idols. If god resides in picture then i have three picture of nanak at myu home and I HAVE GOD.YIPPIE!!!!!

Now i feel you understand why i created that article.

Now why i am merging it, because it's not so long topic, so better to make a section in idol worship and put this data there.

do you know

Ravidas aginst idol worship - kabir panthis make his idols Kabir against idol worship - ERavidasis make his idols and worship it Nanak Against idol worship - Sindhi people make idols of nanak

isn't it funny? it's cultural impact.

Now in many gurdwaras photos are worshipped like anything.

GURU STANDING in photo and people is touching feet of photo. they doi not understand it's imagination of someone, you should admire art not to treat it like god.

that was my point. any criticism pls tell.

Hor sunao how are you howz life going?

(Lucky 11:57, 30 July 2010 (UTC))

Idol worship

Bhai Sahib ji,

Many thanks for the message which I got from the page history.

Unfortunately, this is an issue which has very strong undercurrents for many Sikhs, especially ones with close ties with India. I believe the main reason for this is the fact that they have very strong hate for the way that Hindus carry out their devotion to idols, statues and pictures of their gods. Also, many consider Hindus as "their rivals" and so to rubbish their practises gives them much satisfaction and pride!

For most Sikhs who do not have links with India, this is a non-issue - they know that a picture of a Guru, for example, has no resemblance to reality and is just an artists representation and a way to better focus on the personality. Further "worshipping" the picture, or the book or even the word will produce no merit in the person; the only thing that will elevate the person is to listen to the words of the wise people and re-focus your living in tune with their wisdom - only that will make you a better person.

Idol worshipping is a trait historically of the people of India and in many villages, this tradition still continues to this day. Many will "decorate" and "kiss" pictures of their gods and do "arti" with incense and candle (or diva) and truly believe that this dedication will please their god!

That is the ritual that is criticised in Gurbani. Does this help? Hari Singh^talk 19:05, 30 July 2010 (EDT)

Ghat Ghat Kann Kann

KANN KANN (PRESENT IN EVERY PARTICLE => NON LIVING + LIVING)
GHAT GHAT (PRESENT IN HEART => LIVING)

Gurbani do not believe in Kann Kann philosphy, but GHAT GHAT philosphy. God resides in heart not in particles. KANN KANN Philosphy people are Grave Worshipper, Idolators, etc.
Ghat GHat philosphy are finders, true seekers.

Like Hari SIngh told no use of idol worship, because God is present in beings not My COmputer or my bed or in my glass.

that is difference i hope clear.

Ya i have seen Rocket Singh, it's movie on marketing. shown sikh way of life and movie is about making money in ethics, but you must find bit distortion of ethics on rocket singh side too....isn't it? (Lucky 22:13, 30 July 2010 (EDT))

Rapid transport, Amritsar & RRR...ocket Singh

Bhai sahib ji,

Thanks for adding this article; I will see if we can get adequate material for a feature or just put this as a news article.

Also grateful for your comments on Rocket Singh - I have not seen this movie but now, having read your comments will try and see this film even if it is on DVD. Raab rakha, Hari Singh^talk 19:37, 1 August 2010 (EDT)

Pahul & Kutha

Bhai Sahib ji,

Many thanks for your detailed messages - I have made some of the changes suggested on both articles and "locked" the pahul article for new and unregistered users as there was a lot of nonsense added by some of the new users.

Bhai sahib, I find it annoying when the years from 1699 to 1708 (about 9 years) become more important than the whole of the period from 1469 to 1699 (about 230 years) when the Khalsa Sikh did not exist. Further, some of these Sikhs are completely focused on these rituals and have no idea of the words preached by the holy Granth.

Unfortunately, I see a lot of " detail refining" of the old customs and oral tradition started by Guru Gobind Singh especially in 1699 with the creation of the Khalsa. Each of the elements is refined to an infinite degree - The Guru stipulated just five kakkars in very basic terms - Kesh, kanga, kirpan, kaccha and kara - no material was stipulated; no details were given. Now we have many cults who have added others items to these five - Some factions who go further and stipulate materials, dimensions and other additions. More attention is drawn to these customs than to the text and message of the holy Granth.

If these were to be complex requirements and more important than the "shabad", the Guru would have mentioned them in written form! As there is no direct written record of these items, I can only deduce that these are items that are simple and left to the imagination of the individual or the local communities. The whole of the Amrit ceremony and its requirement is left by the Guru as a "oral tradition" passed from one generation to the next - surely that speaks volumes - If it was intended to be a "strict and rigid routine" or a ceremony where detailed and complex actions were paramount, then I believe that the Guru would have at Nanded sat down and prepared a comprehensive written record.

Therefore, Bhai sahib, it is my belief that the Amrit Sanchar ceremony is by design a simple ceremony and the requirements for the Khalsa are easy to memorise and few in number; further apart from these simple requirements, detailed refinement is not necessary or useful for the betterment of the person.

Pahul: I have made the change to the four Kurehata - Regarding meat - I have left the two options as this is how this works in real life - Some jathas ban meat altogether while some ban halal only; I have reverted to an older version of the article but I think I have captured all your amendments but removed referenced to steel or iron or even wooden for the Kanga as suggested by you; removed the unnecessary references to metals for the kara and kirpan. I could not find the reference to "iron" bowl but again this is not necessary and I will spent more time on this article soon and try and remove these unnecessary "refinements" to the original requirements.

I have also, upon your observation, removed the reference to eye brows and facial hair as I believe that this is just a further unnecessary "refinement" by others. The Guru said "Kesh" which is a reference to the longer hair found on the scalp of most of us and the long hair (beard and moustache) found on the faces of most men. I do not believe that the removal of facial hair by women has any bearing on the word "Kesh".

Bhai sahib, all is well with the my family; many thanks for asking. I too hope and wish that you together with all who are near and dear to you are keeping in good health and positive spirits. I have no news about the floods intruding historical Gurdwaras; having spoken to my friend who has many relations in Pakistan, I believe that the flood are confined to the north and the shrines may have escaped the floods. I have watched the news video with great sadness as huge devastation has taken place. May the Almighty have mercy!

I think the restriction on the Panj Pyare is wrong - women can and do now take part as the five; the same applied to doing sewa at the Akal takhat. When we were in India a few years ago, my niece was allowed to take part without any problems. The monthly cycle in woman is a natural occurrence and cannot be deemed "unclean"; without it none of us would have been born!

Sorry about the long length of the reply. Keep well, Raab Rakha, Hari Singh^talk 19:09, 4 August 2010 (EDT)

Siri Guru Granth Sahib and Barbarism

Bhai Sahib ji,

Siri Guru Granth Sahib: What is the Siri Guru Granth Sahib?

"The Siri Guru Granth Sahib is the living Guru (spiritual teacher) of the Sikhs. Though the Sikhs bow to the Granth (Book), according it the same respect once paid to their living human Gurus, the Sikhs do not 'worship' the Siri Guru Granth Sahib for that is forbidden – Only the One Almighty God is to be worshipped. Guru Nanak's followers are Sikhs (seekers of truth). Guru Nanak taught them to bow only before God, and to link themselves to the Guru, the Light of Truth, who lives always in direct consciousness of God, experiencing no separation.

It is 1430 pages of words in a permutation and combination to stimulate the hypothalamus, giving intuition to mother of knowledge, giving us courage, strength of our divine father, and to give us the excellence to be a lion among the beasts and to be the princess of Kaurs."

Bhai sahib, that is excellent and totally correct as far as Gurmat is concerned - Unfortunately, many do not understand the depth of Gurbani and hence do 'worship' the Granth overlooking the word and the message in the Shabad which is the essence of the Guru - Please go ahead and add this freely as it is precise message of the Gurus.

Why Sikhs turn away ...i have wondered why several Sikhs I have written to on this site, who first offered help, wanted nothing to do with me after learning i was not a Sikh, an Indian or perhaps just because i am a westerner?

Bhai sahib, this is probably to do with lack of confidence in themselves - Many Sikhs have only very basic knowledge of Sikhi and therefore probably feel out of place trying to discuss the finer points especially to a westerner who is also "foreign" to them. The strangeness in the experience is probably too much for them to handle - that's my guess!

Brutality in Afghanistan

Very touching story of the little girl with the missing nose & ears and the killing of 10 care workers - No words can explain how we as humans can behave in such degrading manner; only the Lord can rectify the minds of the people who carry out such inhumane acts and tread on these repulsive ways; may He give us the strength to overcome such barbaric behaviour - acts worse than performed by animals.

Also on the other hand I thanks God that he has given us the technology and compassion to mend some of these scars; unfortunately the lost ones cannot be replaced by us but I am sure they will find peace despite their demise here; the suffering of the relatives will continue for a long time.

Perhaps, it is for these "over-burdening of sins" that disasters such as in Pakistan now and previous earthquakes and tsunamis befall some of the regions where there is no adherence to righteousness. It reminds me of the quote in the Dasam Granth Ath_Nihkalanki_Chobisvon_Avtar_Kathan#Page_1151 - The earth agonised by sin trembled and began to weep .... Overburdened by the weight of sin, it lamented in various ways before the Lord.137. The Lord instructed the earth and saw her off; He reflected on the measure to be adopted for finishing the burden of the earth.138.

May the Lord bless us so that these evils are not witnessed by us any more, Raab rakha, Hari Singh^talk 13:05, 7 August 2010 (EDT)

Sandhanvalia or Sandharivalia ie N or RI?

Bhai sahib ji,

Thanks for an interesting question - Sandhanvalia or Sandharivalia. I am not too familiar with this family - it seem from the ~~content~~ of the page HERE that perhaps it should be "RI" but the name in the title has a "N".

I will need to see if I can read some old books online about this family - This is a good place to try. I will revert back to you soon ....I hope! Raab Rakha, Hari Singh^talk 11:03, 12 August 2010 (EDT)

Bhai sahib ji,

Could also be Sindhianwala sardars? see this as well! Will update soon. Regards, Hari Singh^talk 11:54, 12 August 2010 (EDT)

bit of news and Opinion requested

Bhai sahib ji

Many thanks for the links; particularly the one to "Delhi students find main belt asteroid" which is both interesting and surprising - I thought that most asteroids had already been charted as this arm of science has been under-way for many hundreds of years! So it is amazing to find that students in India, of all places, have "discovered" this "new" extra-terrestrial object.

The floods in Pakistan highlight the destructive power of nature and God who most people do not recognise! It shows how quickly things can change from "normal" to perilous - almost at a blink of the eye. Let's hope that things will settle down and some normality will return to the region. If the estimates of the impact of this setback are true than it appears that this tragedy will put Pakistan back 10 years - a reality that they can ill afford considering the difficulties that they have been suffering under the present government.

Regarding the "new art" depictions of both Mughals and Sikhs, I think some of these "younger" artists have let their imaginations go into overdrive; I cannot imagine that in 16-18th century India you would find anything resembling what can be seen in these photos. Also, as you say, the copyright efforts inserted by the artists are too intrusive for comfort. Let us monitor the position as I do not think there is too many more of these images available and we will step in if this gets out of hand. I think your reaction is perfectly understandable and I agree with your stand; many thanks for highlighting this dangerous trend. Raab rakha, Hari Singh^talk 12:06, 15 August 2010 (EDT)

Question

Bhai sahib ji,

Have part replied on the Talk:Gurudwara Amb Sahib page; hope this explains a few of the confusing references.

Sorry, I failed to address one of your main concerns; the concept of copyright when applied to Sikh art or Sikh history in general is a little bit different from the western stand point; traditional, the promotion of Sikh values is considered more important than copyright and so in the past has always been subservient in this respect. Although some movement has taken place in this respect in recent times, I believe that the modern trend has been very slow in changing attitudes in the public domain.

So far, I have never come across any copyright legal action in a court of law connected with Sikh art or historical accounts; however, this may change! I do not believe that the artist would be concerned as long as his "copyright notice" is not unduly tampered with. If this notice is tampered with then they would get concerned.

So the notice is there to "advertise" the artist and so has to remain if we wish to use the image. I believe that if the notice is small then this is acceptable otherwise we should not use the image here at SikhiWiki. I believe that the artists are aware and actively desire that their art is displayed but with the "notice" clearly visible. They would not release an image without the notice as this would then be displayed everywhere without any reference to them - they would not want to take legal action in this field of Sikhi and the domain of the Guru where one is supposed to be unselfish, forgiving and generous!

The need to make the characters more muscular (as if on steroids) than real life is a modern trend and does not reflect reality no matter what the diet of these 17th century humans!

Gyani Labh Singh Bhikhi article - Yes, the removal of the photos is warranted having flicked through the series of photos - thanks for your keen observation! Kind regards, Hari Singh^talk 20:08, 16 August 2010 (EDT)

Talwar

Bhai sahib ji,

Fascinating website showing the extreme skills required to make these excellent weapons; did not know steel was discovered in India; wonderful products produced by a talented craftsman. Many thanks for an enlightening experience. Raab rakha, Hari Singh^talk 16:39, 18 August 2010 (EDT)

Mysticism, History of Sikh Gurus Retold, etc

Bhai Sahib ji,

Sorry Bhai Sahib ji, I have read all your interesting messages, taken fair bit of action on some of the issues raised but unfortunately have been running out to time for the last few nights until today. I apologise for the late reply.

I read the message regarding Mysticism and then went to Wikipedia and did some amendments there; I don't know if those changes will "stick" as the users at Wikipedia have a eager tendency to overwrite things that they are not familiar with themselves.

I did some research on the concept of "mysticism" which I had not come across before and I think that although this word has not been used before in connection with Sikhi on this site, it is a concept that applies to Sikhi. As I have not encountered this word myself, I will need to become more acquainted with this concept myself first before more can be written by me. We also need to see if others have written about mysticism and Sikhi; if they have then that can be used as a starting position.

I unable at present to address your question in this respect and will revert to this topic in a few weeks.

The matter relating to Sikhi and yoga invokes bitterness in traditional Punjabi Sikhs who want to believe that Sikhi has no connection with Yoga. However, when one reads the SGGS, it is clear that the Gurus were familiar with Yoga and supporters of this form of art/skill/therapy.

History of Sikh Gurus Retold: 1469-1606 C.E By Surjit Singh Gandhi Many thanks for the link to this book; indeed it is a valuable resource. I will spent some time reading this book in the next week or so.

Your wife's video recommendation about how Muslims are treated in America was a real eye opener and a very touching encounter towards the end of the video. It is amazing how many "ordinary" people can hold such noble values despite constant media distortions of this minority community. An excellent recommendation; many thanks again. Sorry again and Raab Rakha, Hari Singh^talk 18:45, 24 August 2010 (EDT)

Hacienda de Guru Ram Das‎ and Canada, from a story in al jazeera

Bhai sahib ji,

Many thanks as always for your valuable input and highly relevant messages; I am most grateful to you. I have looked at the links that you have referred to and I think the 3HO one is correct but the second one for the Sikh Dharma should be just the one link, the second one for this option - giving two options of 3ho or www.sikhdharmaworldwide.org, in my opinion is not necessary - just have one link for each one - so my suggestion would be that the line should read: To learn more about our lifestyle at HGRD, please visit 3HO Foundation [1] and Sikh Dharm [2].

Canada & immigration: Historically there has always been resistance by the Americas to immigration from Asia; however, I think this has slowly changed and perhaps now a reasonable balance has been achieved. Obviously, it is important for the "new" nations to have a seperate identity and this takes time and careful policies. If too much immigration comes from one country, it is possible for the new identity not to develop.

When too many people from one country are allowed to come to these nations in a short period of time, there is a strong possibility of very strong links to the "father nations" remaining and hence the likelihood of the development of "freedom fighter" whose mindset remains fixed to the "father nation". Under these conditions, very little or no real development of the new country can take place. It is difficult balance to achieve and so I agree that the slow acceptance of small numbers from the "old world" is necessary to ensure stability and peace in these countries and for the slow assimilation of the ethnic population into the mainstream community.

Canada has faced a difficult time with extremist from Punjab, which I know about and extremists other nations as you mention. So I believe that in theory this apprehension in Canada and other western nations is understandable. However, this policy can also, very easily be used as a cover to discriminate and practise ethnic favouritism (a non destructive and softer version of "ethnic cleansing").

Some of these countries, due to large numbers of ethnic populations, do provide safe havens for development of extremist elements as you rightly say; the so-called Khalistan phenomenon is a classical example. I am not against the development of positive political elements in these countries, even if these are associated with the "father nations" but the promotion of violence and the raising of funds to promote violence in these nations is not acceptable.

One hopes that the politicians of these "newer" nations will be aware of these tendencies and take heed from the warnings given by PM of India and others about the potential "time bomb" if these elements are not closely and actively monitored and vigorously restrained.

Bhai sahib ji, Raab rakha, may the Lord's love dwell always in your heart, Hari Singh^talk 09:52, 28 August 2010 (EDT)

Sajid KHan apologized

As you know Sajid KHan apologized for his comments against sikh martial act and he agreed that he did not know much about this tradition.

In second round bir khalsa group again performed and judges commented it brilliant.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNA-kYIxGoM

(Lucky 09:00, 29 August 2010 (EDT))

Gatka round 2 and Nourishing Souls

Bhai sahib,

Many thank for sharing such a delightful photo presentation; indeed a fitting end to a beautiful weekend when the true message of the Gurus is reflected across the different sections of the globe.

With His blessings, may the beautiful glory of the Almighty Lord prevail everywhere. I hope that many hearts will have been touched with these pieces of media presentation and their lives will move towards a more spiritual and meaningful existence with focus on a more merciful, humble and sharing life; always remembering the Supreme power. Sada Raab rakha, Hari Singh^talk 08:29, 30 August 2010 (EDT)

PS: Have added these links to the article here : http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Harmandar_Sahib#External_Links

Amritsar

Bhai sahib ji,

I was working on this article but have moved on to the five sarovars; so please carry on if you need to. I will reply in greater depth a little later as I am still in the middle of several edits on the sarovars articles with picture uploads, etc. So please excuse me for a little while. Bye just for now, Hari Singh^talk 19:53, 3 September 2010 (EDT)

Sorry. No, it wasn't a serious problem for me working on the article although as I did not realise, it did give me a "edit conflict notice". On the contrary, I hope I did not cause you too much frustration as I know the system does not allow simultaneous editing. It would be good if the system gave a warning of simultaneous editing when the second person tried to press the edit button! I am sorry, I seem to have caused you some distress.

Thanks for asking; all is well here and I hope that you and your family are also keeping well; I hope you getting a good night's sleep without any disturbance these days. I remember that you mentioned previously that you had been unable to rest properly; I hope that problem has gone away.

I do not know what the word "inhead" means but as you say it appears in a few articles on this site; I think it must be a slang used in India to signify a person who has cut hair or a 'mona' as you say. Mona means any person who has short cut hair. I agree with your 'Singh Sahib' as I have never heard of this word as well!

The word does not have any Punjabi meaning nor can I find it on Google when searched on its own but when searched together with the word 'Sikh' it direct the search to the page Mona Sikh which explains that this is a shorthand used in Punjab for 'mona' or 'rowdha' which means 'bald' but is also used to refer to a mona. Rabh Rakha, Hari Singh^talk 22:10, 3 September 2010 (EDT)

God Sharp Teeth and God is Formless

Sir, God does not have Sharp Teeth. When Gurus have to explain attributes of God then at many places in Guru Granth Sahib Gurus made form of Formless God. I Think you have not read what i am trying to convey.

In Teeth Matter, Guru Gobind Singh is explaining a Destroyer form of Formless God, and he used word Teeth under which he have taken away many for example Earthquake at Haiti(The Dangerous form of Hukam), Tsunami(Dangerous form of Hukam) etc etc and etc. So Their Guru Gobind SIngh have also mentioned that he is FORMLESS and very clearly mentioned before Bani but Some Anti Gobind SIngh's Bani elements use to quote few lines from inside instead of reading whole content and say before people that GOD is formless and GOd mentioned in Dasam Granth have FORM.

What i have done is i have taken various examples from Guru Granth Sahib that this is poetic impression which is used in Guru Granth Shaib too to explain attributes of God, and remember these attributes are also formless.

The Teeth mentioned are also formless and The Mace mentioned in God's Hand in Gurbani is also formless.

Though words are remporal so it makes confusion.

Basically i am trying to prove that they are using Wrong methodology of condenming and which is not at all perfect and not to believe at all.

(Editor 19:13, 9 September 2010 (EDT))

Many thanks for 3 years of very valuable contributions

Respected Bhai Sahib ji,

It is with great respect and honour that I have the pleasure of sending this message to you. Today, 11 September 2007, is the 3 anniversary of your first contribution to SikhiWiki; over this period you have tirelessly and consistently contributed many thousands and thousands of words of invaluable and priceless facts to this website; your dedication is beyond expression in words. It has been an act of love and commitment.

Everyday, without fail you have logged onto SikhiWiki and spent your time without any care of reward or praise or anything else; you have done this as pure Seva - as an act of labour for the Lord to spread the message of the Gurus. What may surprise some is that you are not born a Sikh but your love for the message of the Gurus has surpassed that which many born in this faith will ever attain. I salute you and your family for the love, endurance and stamina that you have shown.

Despite many hurdles and objections over the last 3 years, you have focused on the central theme and so have shown me and others how seva should be done. Apart from these humble words, I cannot perform any act to express my respect and my feeling of gratitude for the selfless service that you have performed.

I pray to the Almighty Lord to grant you all your wishes and desires and may all the world's happiness and joys be with you always; may He give you courage and strength to overcome any difficulty and may you always find peace and tranquillity in your heart. Raab Rakha, your humble fellow colleague at Sikhiwiki, Hari Singh^talk 19:43, 11 September 2010 (EDT)

Bhai Sahib ji,

Many thanks for your kind response. I was saddened to learn that you were not feeling too well a couple of days ago; I hope your health has improved and has taken a decisive turn for the better now.

You truly have done a fantastic job and I shall always be thankful for your great effort so far. It is a bonus when you say that ".... each day has been an enjoyable learning experience that has greatly enriched our lives". It is really magnificent that you have contributed so much in the 3 years but at the same time you appear to have enjoyed this exercise; it is really magical.

May the Good Lord keep it that way and may you continue to enjoy this great service and the excellent contribution for many many more years. For both our sakes, I hope I shall be sending you a similar message for this selfless service lasting 30 years in 27 years time!

You may know that the software was set-up by Bhai Gurumustuk Singh of Sikhnet but in the initial period there was little input from the wider audience; anyway, that is history, it appears that we now get a million "hits" a month which is beyond my initial expectations. Many, many thanks again to you both - including Bhabiji as well. Rab Rakha, Hari Singh^talk 13:49, 16 September 2010 (EDT)

Nadar

Bhai sahib ji

Many thanks for the message - the article will come later but just a taster for the definition of the word "Nadar" in this amazing paper - Sorry it is a bit long but I hope you will like it, Hari Singh^talk 20:38, 18 September 2010 (EDT)

Dr. Jaswant Singh Neki: Conversation with a Polymath

From Sikh Review RAVINDER SINGH TANEJA* * 6172 Commonwealth Dr., Westerville OH 43082. Email: [email protected]

A MAN OF MANY DIMENSIONS and diverse accomplishments, Dr Jaswant Singh Neki is a veritable polymath and a Renaissance man in our midst. At 84 years young, he remains a visible and active presence in Sikh affairs - one of the few public intellectuals that the Sikhs can claim.

Trained as a physician, most of us know him in his avatar as a man of medicine – psychiatrist, public health policy expert, Department Head at the All India Institute of Medical Sciences (AIIMS), Delhi, and Director of the Post Graduate Institute (PGI), Chandigarh. He also found time to serve in East Africa as advisor to the World Health Organization.

But we don't always connect Dr J.S. Neki, the medical man, with Neki, the award winning poet. Few of us know that his first published poem - in praise of Guru Gobind Singh Ji written in Braj Basha – appeared in the Khalsa Samachar way back in 1937, when he was barely twelve years old. Awarded the Sahitya Akademi award in 1978 for his work: "Karuna Di Chhuh Ton Magron", he has over a dozen published collections of poetry, beginning with: “Asle to Ohle Tak” in 1955 through the ground breaking autobiographical: "Koi Naon Na Jane Mera" in 2000.

Gurbani Exegesis:

He is also a distinguished scholar of Sikhi with a prolific output – in English and Punjabi. His works include the classic “Ardaas: Darshan Roop Te Abhiyas,” an exposition of Sikh congregational prayer; Sada Vigas, a profoundly original interpretation of Gurbani; Achetan di Leela, a psychological perspective on Gurmat; Divine Intimations, an English translation of Nitnem in verse; Prophet of Devotion, the life of Guru Angad; Pilgrimage to Hemkunt, a coffee table travelogue, Punjabi Haas Vilas, a book on Punjabi humour - and other works.

Dr. Neki is also an invaluable original source for anyone interested in Sikh history. Since his days as the President of the All India Sikh Students Federation, in 1949, to his present role as advisor to the Dharam Prachar Committee, SGPC, and General Secretary of the Bhai Vir Singh Sadan, New Delhi, he has been an active witness and participant in contemporary Sikh affairs, with a first-hand knowledge and acquaintance with the Who‟s Who of the Sikh world.

Although I have known him over the years, our meetings have been intermittent and far between, usually in social settings that are not always conducive to the kind of systematic exploration of his thought and outlook that I wished to record.

His recent presence in Columbus, Ohio, (USA) gave me that opportunity. Over a couple of extended private conversations and a Sikhi workshop organized by the local Sangat, we explored the entire range of Sikh experience, covering the gamut from the implication of being a Sikh, Sikh belief and practice, the current state of Sikh Institutions and the challenge of moral and ethical issues stemming from technology. In the process, I also got a glimpse of the defining events in his life.

Dr Neki would rank high on my list of individuals that I would want to invite home for an evening of scintillating conversation. He has a certain gravitas about him (not surprising in one devoted to literary and scholarly pursuits), but wears it lightly. He can expound on abstruse philosophical concepts, but always with a touch of humour and with an open mind. He is a raconteur extraordinaire, and can hold you spell-bound with stories and anecdotes; or have you in peals of laughter with jokes – all used with great effect to put his point across.

Porous Boundaries:

Jaswant Singh Neki became the first “born Sikh” in his family in 1925. Religious boundaries between Hindu and Sikh were rather porous then, unlike the hardened walls that we witness today. It was not uncommon for Punjabi families to straddle what can be termed “mixed identities.” So it was with Dr Neki‟s family.

“Expect the Unexpected” would be an apt header for any narration of Dr Neki‟s life. Hearing him recount the sheer number of coincidences – or synchronicities, if you will – that have shaped the course of his life is nothing short of miraculous. I share a few of them, not so much to chronicle his life but to view these events from a Sikh perspective.

The partition of India in 1947 found the young Jaswant Singh - then a medical student in Lahore – down and out in Amritsar where he had made his way. Cut off from family, homeless and penniless, he faced an uncertain future.

A series of baffling synchronicities saw him through.

First, a generous landlord, moved by his plight, offers him a room - rent to be paid when able. Just then, he chances upon the old canteen manager from Lahore, now a food stall owner in Amritsar. Free meals become available.

But most remarkably, a windfall from the most unexpected – and unknown – source solves Jaswant Singh‟s money problem, at least temporarily, enabling him to complete his medical education. Wandering aimlessly around town one evening, concerned about money, he heard a voice summon him – out of the blue. It was an old Sikh, a total stranger, who approached him with a proposition: “I have two thousand rupees on me. Can I entrust them to you for safekeeping?” he asked. “No,” Jaswant Singh responded, adding, “I am in desperate need and will be tempted to use the money.”

The old Sikh insisted, “and isn't that what money is for – to spend?” Overcome by the moment, an immensely relieved Jaswant Singh took the money, but failed to ask about the old man‟s identity or whereabouts, or where he could return it.

Now fast-forward to about a year later. Dr Neki, now a junior house physician, finds himself the beneficiary of a retroactive pay raise, with the arrears to be paid in a lump sum. His share: a princely two thousand and ten rupees!

Happy at the windfall, he plans to dine out. No sooner does he step outside, that the same voice – the one that had summoned him a year ago – rang in his ears. It was the old Sikh again, back to claim his money. Sometime later, Dr Neki found himself in a similar predicament – yet, again. Now a Demonstrator at Christian Medical College, Ludhiana, he had a run in with the Principal

over a day‟s personal leave that he needed to attend to an ailing grandmother. The Principal‟s intransigence led him to resign in a fit of anger.

A Mystical Encounter:

Jobless again, he found himself wandering aimlessly – on the streets of Ludhiana this time - regretting his hasty decision. Sure enough, he had another inexplicable encounter.

As he walked, an old man, a Sikh, who was selling his wares on the street, waved to him, saying, “Don't worry about your job; you have three offers coming.” Dr Neki, needless to say, was incredulous.

No sooner did he arrive home than he found two job offers waiting for him. One was from an old class mate, an industrialist, looking for a medical officer to run a Clinic for his workers. The other was from S. Hukam Singh, the erstwhile Speaker of Parliament, offering him an editorial position on his newly founded Weekly: ‘The Spokesman’.

What, I asked Dr Neki, was his reaction? He turned to me with a smile and said, “The old man had made three offers; where is the third, I thought?” The third offer arrived the same night, via a telegram from the Medical College, Amritsar.

His marriage to the daughter of his Professor at Medical School, his appointment as PGI Director and assignment as Consultant to the WHO – all followed a similar fortuitous pattern. Dr Neki shared these - and other – events from his life to illustrate the point we happened to be discussing from Malcolm Gladwell's book, The Outliers, that successful and accomplished individuals are not propelled by genius and talent alone; they also rise on a tide of advantages, “some deserved, some not, some earned, some just plain lucky.”

Dr Neki described the “lucky breaks” in his life - in Gurmat parlance - as Nadar, or God‟s Grace. “Rabb aap aaya si” (God came Himself) he said.

Grace Abounding:

Ascribing success and accomplishment to Nadar may be the humility of a Sikh, but surely, Nadar shines randomly on all of us. Why, then, do some of us appear to connect better with the flow of Nadar? Why do these coincidences – synchronicities – appear more pronounced in some lives than others?

While I don't have the answer, I can offer a tentative explanation. The title of Dr Neki‟s translation of the Nitnem (Divine Intimations) offers a clue. These are sure signs of the Divine working in our everyday, mundane lives.

While Nadar may open doors, and talent may provide the raw material, it takes hard work, discipline, persistence and perseverance to run leading medical institutions with distinction, stay actively engaged in Sikh affairs, and turn out literary and scholarly output of a high order over a long period of time.

There is no room for idlers in Sikhi. Honest effort (udyam) is foundational to a Sikh's life and I got a glimpse of this in observing Dr Neki's punishing schedule in Columbus, OH, even when on a holiday – he was up at 2 AM, did his Nitnem and then settled down to writing for the rest of the day, yet greeting intrusions like mine with cheer.

It was obvious that the discipline and structure had been cultivated and honed over a lifetime.

Dr Neki's eclectic and holistic approach to Sikh scholarship was shaped early on by the influence of his grandfather, a man of learning with an abiding interest in Holy Gurbani, and later, in Amritsar, by iconic figures of Sikh scholarship - Professor Sahib Singh, Bhai Jodh Singh and Principal Teja Singh, with whom he had regular contact.

An incident Dr Neki narrated that involved these three stalwarts is worth narrating because it highlights the mutual respect and camaraderie that they shared, but also because they left a lasting impression on Dr Neki that influences his thinking ever since.

Professor Sahib Singh had been invited to preside over an event organized by the AISSF. Sahib Singh demurred, explaining that he was pressed for time. He was then completing his seminal work on Gurbani Vyakaran (grammar) “A lot of what he said about Vyakaran went right over my head,” Dr Neki told me with a laugh. But Sahib Singh suggested Bhai Jodh Singh as an alternative, “Bhai Jodh Singh noon kyon nahin puchda?” (Why done you ask Bhai Jodh Singh?) Bhai Jodh Singh, it turned out, had a prior commitment and suggested Sahib Singh instead, “Sahib Singh hora noon kyon nahin puchda?” (Why done you ask Sahib Singh?)

When told that Sahib Singh could not make it, he solicited Bhai Jodh Singh view about the importance of grammar in understanding Gurbani. Bhai Jodh Singh responded with a "chicken and egg" question of his own, “kaka, mainu eh das, grammar pehlon aayi see keh language?” (Son, tell me this, what came first - grammar or language?)

Experiencing The Divinity:

Professor Teja Singh agreed to preside over the event. His response to the grammar and language question is a gem - in my opinion. Conceding that both Sahib Singh and Jodh Singh were more learned than he, Teja Singh agreed that both grammar and meaning (language) were important, but the true import of Gurbani rested on personal experience as well. “Mere NaloN siyaneh neh, par anubhav zaruri hai.” (They are more wiser than me, but "anubhav" (intuition) is necessary) That alone will lead to the Transcendent.

In speaking of a Sikh's engagement with the Guru Granth Sahib, Dr Neki sounded a similar note of caution. There are multiple senses in Gurbani, and we can get caught up in the literal or allegorical but miss the anagogical. The mode of communication that the Guru‟s have employed, Poetry, is not meant to be informational only - but transformational as well. Poetry is letting the WORD be heard beyond the literal meaning of the textual words.

Gurbani must not just be read and understood but “ingested”, which involves assimilation and absorption. It is this natural amalgamation of science and poetry, of combining metaphor and analogy – of multiple senses and ways of looking at Reality – that is so visible in Dr Neki's work, and gives it a beauty and transcendence that can be transporting. An example from Sada Vigas comes to mind.

Link with the Spirit:

In an essay on the different dimensions of transcendence (Paramatma Da Deedar), Dr Neki uses the reproductive process as an illustration of transcending oneself (Haumai) in an exquisitely poetic way: the metaphor of a delirious lover used for the male sperm; its wiggling tail as a sign of its delight in finding the beloved female egg, and in the ultimate loss of a separate sense of self that results from the union.

While such a fruitful combination of the scientific and poetic outlook within an individual - like Dr Neki - may be deemed Nadar, it is nonetheless, an attitude that one needs to consciously cultivate.

This fusion of science and poetry is a necessary framework to understand Sikhi in our current context. The two are not quite as apart as we have been led to believe. I found the following quote from the Scientific Activist very apt: “A scientist is an empirical poet and a poet is a scientist of more imaginative and creative hypotheses.” A Sikh's life must be at once musical, mathematically precise and poetic.

My purpose in capturing and recording these conversations goes beyond a personal desire to share vignettes from the life of a multi faceted personality and a much admired role model.

Dr Neki is an important literary figure in his own right and a living link to many iconic figures in our recent history as well as an active participant in shaping our community.

There is a compelling need to maintain that link to our past by cultivating the habit of recording, documenting and archiving – of not neglecting – individuals like Dr Jaswant Singh Neki while they are still in our midst. I have attempted to capture a bit of oral history which I believe is just as significant as the written tradition in keeping our past alive. These recordings are bits and bytes of our larger history.

Third Killer Performance

Bir Khalsa Group Third Killer Group. Sajid Comment that now he believe that KHalsa have power to stand before lakhs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuYxeE8XKrw

Nadar, universe and other things

Bhai Sahib ji

It was amazing how "Good luck" appears from nowhere when it is most needed as it did for Dr Neki! I am glad you enjoyed this article about him.

No, I am not familiar with the Burningman event but know a little about the "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" and also the "Dr Who" series which was a popular old science fiction TV serial which I used to watch when at school & college.

Preceding Diwali there is an event where an effigy of "Ravan" is burnt in a huge bonfire (Diwali being a Hindu celebration of Rama defeating Ravan, rescuing Sita and returning home triumphantly); I recall this from my distant memory of events in Kenya when all our community religious events were celebrated together with all other members of the community; so we all, despite our different religions took part in every Sikh, Hindu and Muslim celebrations.

We have not watched the film "My Name is Khan" but the custom of burning the corpse outside in the open covered with wood is still common place in India. I have seen clips of the movie and understand the general message that it is trying to convey! It is normally just a few in the community who spoil it for the rest!

As you say, not too many Westerns will see this movie and so many of the shortcomings will not be noticed even by ethnic American! Also, due to the huge size of the USA, not many will understand the significance of these landmarks and their exact locations.

I did visited San Francisco and CA in 1995; I found the folks there generally appeared to be in a "big rush" all the time! I hope that has changed now!

Khan is a great actor and its is not surprising that you found his performance "remarkable". I find that he can very easily convince the audience about any role that he chooses to perform - a huge natural talent; Kajol too is our favourite as well - she always appears to be a happy and positive personality! An excellent actress!

No, please - thanks for sharing - it is the mundane things that makes life interesting and meaningful. As you say, just like Mr Khan, many people in life can only see - black or white - in so doing they miss out on the full colours of the rainbow!

File:Sant-Jarnail-aw.jpg - I hope I have removed the correct unwanted images. Many thanks, Raab Rakha, Hari Singh^talk 09:30, 20 September 2010 (EDT)

Bhai sahib ji,

Please review the article on Nadar. I hope you will like it. Please feel free to amend as you regard necessary. Kind regards, Hari Singh^talk 15:43, 21 September 2010 (EDT)

Gurdwara Pathar sahib

Bhai sahib ji,

Sat Sri Akaal ji, Many thanks for your message and the link to what looks like a very comprehensive article; many thanks again - I will read it over the weekend.

I hope you had a great time in the Bay Area and that all is well with bhabiji's mother; obviously a popular area with a bonus of a few Sikhi connections as well.

I have not looked at the directions given in the above article; I believe that sarbjeet may have started the article and as he lives in J & K it may be he has done a 'cut and paste' from some other article. The name should not be in all capitals; this is probably due to the 'cut & paste' exercise used! At some point I hope I will get a 'software robot' which I think is called a 'bot' to do these tidying-up exercises; I need to sharpen up my programming skills!

Bhai sahib, Leh does have an airport according to http://www.skyscanner.net/airports/ixl/leh-airport.html. Also again with the help of the miracle of Google search, it appears that flights from Delhi to Leh do exist as per the link: http://www.mapsofindia.com/flight-schedule/delhi-leh.html

Delhi to Jammu also has flights as displayed here - http://www.mapsofindia.com/flight-schedule/delhi-jammu.html

I believe that Sarbjeet is more likely to know - I will send him a message if required after I have had a look at the article myself later.

taposthan - 'tapo' - meditate/endurance/penance/worship; and 'asthan' - place/building/shrine. So the place where meditation/worship took place - place of worship/meditation

I hope that help. Kind regards and may the Lord's blessings be with you always, Hari Singh^talk 09:59, 2 October 2010 (EDT)

Further and thanks to your link, I have written this article - On this platter are these things based on the editorial piece in the pdf file. I have changed the initial setting from 2004 to 2008 as this is likely to still be in the minds of readers! Regards, Hari Singh^talk 21:12, 2 October 2010 (EDT)

Never beg from others and more

picture similar to the one in the video

Bhai sahib ji,

Many thanks for the work on the above article; I have read it and it sounds great. You have done an excellent job as always. You are also correct about the sadhus - you don't find them in Gurdwaras.

Because these days they are after money and food is normally just an excuse to get "their foot in" - once you start entertaining them, they will find your weaknesses and then the "extraction" mode kicks in.

Unfortunately, a lot of Sikh "priests" and "gyanis" have also joined the act and go door to door asking for donations for fictitious events like "eye camp" or langar or mass weddings of poor brides, etc in India. Hopefully, the article will give some 'Gurbani base' to challenge these folks!

Bhai sahib, the elders were referred to as the "presidents" of the jatha (group) in the video and the picture is of the Golden Temple being blessed by the 10 Sikh Gurus; The Guru Granth Sahib is symbolically in the temple and so is not included at the top although I have seen pictures with the holy granth in a second row at the top.

The picture presented was like the one I have copied here in this reply; I will try and see if I can get a print locally - I will keep you posted on how I get on in my search for a picture similar to one seen in the video. Many thanks again. Raab Rakha, Hari Singh^talk 00:54, 5 October 2010 (EDT)

They want to Probe Nanak a Muslim

Nanak was a Muslim, but was Muslim by heart acc. to Nanak Muslim is Imaan wala which means Honest. Nanak was Honest about his faith. he was not some circumcized person who believe god in mecca only and believe in ritual and rites.

Guru Granth Sahib's Subject is WHAT IS THAT ONE? This is not at all concept in Quran. Quran do have attributes of God but the explanation of Spirituality is explained in Gurmat only. What is god, what it does, how it does, hwhat is spirit, what spirit makes what it is make of what spirit have to do to merge in supreme commans etc. whole spirituals topics are concerned with Sikhism or you can say directly explained in easy language by Gurus.

many religion try to explain something in stories, but people became followers of story rather then following the concept.

1) Nanak turned Mecca, it does not mean Nanak revolved whole mecca city, MECCA is attributed as MIND in Guru Granth Shaib. Mecca Turn means Their Mind turns, their wrong thinkings about god turns. Similarly namdev turned Temple means Namdev's Mind turned toward God. NANAK explanation of Allah turned MECCA of Muslims(not outer mecca). Now this thing became popularize and people started thinking that NANAk turned whole Mecca city with his feet.

2) Nanak did Vichar with all high class people, he very less did parchar in normal people, reason being, common people will not able to listen against rituals, shiva vishnu etc. So you could check his bani which contains discussion with high grade people. The terminology which are used in Bani are basically a scholarly terminology, normal people not able to understand it DIRECTLY, ya if they have read meanings in their understandable form only they could undertsand message.

Why Nanak did vichar with high class people? because if they willcome on way the other class people who are actually followers of preachings by high class people also started way of God. Guru Angad sahib was one who started preaching in common people.

So the discussion was between technical people not like these people who are just studying history without studying what Gurmat says , what islam says,w hwre is the differences.

So better to study gurbani ourselves, to improve ourselves, to find god ourselves, to merge innaam ourselves. NANAK will not come again to teach all this thats why he left BANI, to study the way, to kill wrong intentions to kill Mind and heart's illusion and way to God.

These people who wrote such articles haven't studied islam properly, don't know why they touch other religions.

Only In Sikh scriptures HINDU and ISLAM dharma is opened fully and their do and don'ts are better explained, which if preached in world then people will gonna die OH WHAT THIS GRANTH IS SAYING, this is not Good granth. So these are just fake articles.

Check more such things:

http://aaiil.org/urdu/books/others/aaiil/hazratbabananakkamazhab/hazratbabananakkamazhab.shtml
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2aEgRhqmP0 <--------- Video from Ahmeddiya, claiming nanak muslim
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiMixnfMuOc <-------- This BR Imran clearly said that NANAk never went to mecca.

Take Care (Lucky 18:00, 7 October 2010 (EDT))

Lala Lajpat Rai

Bhai Sahib ji, Sat Sri Akaal,

Many thanks for your message. I have done a quick almost word by word translation - Please see if it makes sense?

ਸਾਈਮਨ ਕਮੀਸ਼ਨ ਦੇ ਲਹੌਰ ਪ੝ੱਜਣ ਤੋਂ ਪੰਜ ਹਫਤੇ ਪਿਛੋਂ ਹੀ,
Simon Commission's day Lahore pujan toh panj hafta pecho hee,
Just five weeks after the Simon commission got to Lahore,

ਲਾਲਾ ਲਾਜਪਤ ਰਾਇ ਦੀ, ਦਿਲ ਦੀ ਧਾਪ ਬੰਦ ਹੋਣ ਕਾਰਣ,
Lala Lajput Rai dee, delh de dhap baand hoohr kharan
due to Lala Lajput Rais's heart beat stopping he

ਮ੝ਰਿਤੂ ਹੋ ਗਈ ਤਾਂ ਦੋ ਹਿੰਦੂ ਕੰਗ੝ਰੈਸੀ ਡਾਕਟਰਾਂ
mhereetu hoe gahee tah dho Hindu congressi doctora
died and two Congress doctors

ਨੇ ਇਹ ਸਰਟੀਫਿਕੇਟ ਦੇ ਦਿਤਾ ਕਿ ਇਸ ਮ੝ਰਿਤੂ
nah eeh certificate dah detah ka eesh mretu
produced a certificate showing that his death

ਕਰਤਰੀ ਕਾਰਣ (Efficient cause) ਉਹ ਡਾਂਗਾਂ ਦੀਆਂ ਸੱਟਾਂ ਹੀ ਹਨ,
kartatee karran ooho thanga deeya sata hee han
was caused due to injuries caused by being hit by batons

ਜਿਹੜੀਆਂ ਕਿ ਛੇ ਹਫਤੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ ਉਨਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਵੱਜੀਆਂ ਸਨ |
jahreea ka cha hafta phala oona noo vajeea sahn
which had happened 6 weeks before his death.

ਇਸ ਤਰਾਂ ਆਕਾਸ਼ ਬੇਲ ਦੇ ਫ੝ੱਲਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਫਲ ਲਗੇ ਤੇ ਬਾਂਝ ਵਿਧਵਾ ਦੇ ਸਪ੝ਤ੝ਰ ਦਾ |
ees tarha aakas baal dha phula noo phal laga ta baaj veedva dha saputar da
In this way, the sky bound climber's flowers bore fruit, and the sterile widow's son

ਵਿਵਾਹ ਸੰਸਕਾਰ ਹੋਇਆ ਇਕ ਕੰਗ੝ਰੈਸੀ ਦੇਵੀ ਨੇਤਾ,
veevha sanskar hooeya ek kangrasee davee nAta,
wedding ceremony took place. At this time, one Congress lady

ਇਸ ਸਮੇਂ ਲਹੌਰ ਪਧਾਰੀ ਤੇ ਇਹ ਬਿਆਨ ਅਖਬਾਰਾਂ ਵਿਚ ਛਪਵਾ ਕੇ,
ees samha Lahore pdharee ta eeha beyhan ekhabara vich chpva ka,
came to Lahore and reported & got printed this in the newspaper and

ਮ੝ੜਦੇ ਪੈਰੀ ਕਲਕੱਤੇ ਚਲੇ ਗਈ |
murdha paree Calcatta chlaa gaee
immediately left for Calcutta.

"ਲਾਲਾ ਜੀ ਨੂੰ ਦ੝ਸ਼ਟ ਸਕਾਟ ਫਿਰੰਗੀ ਨੇ ਡਾਂਗਾਂ ਮਾਰ ਕੇ ਕਤਲ ਕਰ ਦਿੱਤਾ ਹੈ |
Lala ji nuu duust skat phergee na dhaga marg ka katl kar deta ha
"Due to the evil foreigner Scot's beating, Lal ji has died of the injuries.

ਕੀ ਪੰਜਾਬ ਦਾ ਮਰਦਊਪ੝ਣਾ ਬਿਲਕ੝ਲ ਨਿਪ੝ੰਸਕ ਬਣ ਚ੝ੱਕਾ ਹੈ? "
ke punjab de mardooprh belkul neepusak ban chuke ha?
Is the pride (manhood) of Punjab completely finished?"

Kind regards, Hari Singh^talk 09:06, 11 October 2010 (EDT)

Bhai sahib ji, Many thanks for your kind words. Please feel free to put it on the article page. Thanks again and kind regards, Hari Singh^talk 19:00, 11 October 2010 (EDT)

Photos of Bhagwan!

Bhai Sahib ji, Sat Sri Akal

Thank you for a very interesting article highlighting a subtle (but not easily understood) aspect of human behaviour; although we realise God is everywhere, a picture seems to bring this to the forefront and crystallise the concept at that location. Nothing has changed apart from the appearance of an "imaginary" picture of God! Amazing how the human mind behaves and functions!

Yes, generally Sikhs do not consume tobacco and so would rarely be caught displaying this hideous habit of "public spitting"

Thanks also for the link to the miracle that unfolded in Chile this morning - luckily, we had good coverage via the BBC in this case. Kind regards, Hari Singh^talk 12:03, 13 October 2010 (EDT)

Gurdwara Nanaksar Sahib & visit to Amritsar

Bhai sahib ji,

Thanks for your messages. Unfortunately, the Notice board is not very helpful and appears more like an advert showing the name of the main sewadar (Baba Balvinder Singh, the 14th in the line of "Akali 96 Karori, )and the many titles that people hold and little else of much use. It may? be located in Chawni Nihang Singh, Bathinda District although I cannot locate this as a village so it may refer to something else. The full name of the Gurdwara is 'Gurdwara Nanaksar Sahib, Pehli Patshahi'. 'Pehli (first) Patshahi (king)' standing for the first Guru. The connection to the Buddha Dal is also given but no other details of the location.

President's visit: I wonder how much of this story is true - it may just be something to bring anti-India propaganda later if he does not go! I agree it is exciting to think of the President going to the Golden Temple but I would not hold too much hope. The upside would be more education for the world about Sikhs, I agree totally. Let's hope this works out. Raab rakha & kind regards, Hari Singh^talk 14:15, 15 October 2010 (EDT)

There may be some truth in this story unbelievable as it may seem! Hari Singh^talk 17:16, 15 October 2010 (EDT)

Appointment of Akal takhat jathedar

Queen during her visit to the Golden Temple

Bhai sahib ji,

The requirement is simply to cover the head and I have seen many youngsters wear a baseball cap to the darbar hall and this is perfectly acceptable also woolly caps are often worn by ladies in addition to scarves, etc. I am sure considering that it is the president, a cap or any other such head covering like the ones mentioned by you will be accepted by the Sikhs leaders; the US Navy hat sounds like a great idea. Obama wearing a cap for Golden Temple visit is no issue: SGPC

When the Queen, bless her soul, visited the Golden Temple (see picture) she wore her matching beautiful hat. Many leaders have visited this shrine to pay their respects to this shrine which is where the "message of Guru Nanak" was first honoured - this is what the shrine stands for. It is an honour for the Sikhs if one visits and the person also honours the deep and enlightening message of the Gurus. This is important and I hope the administrator in the USA will consider this carefully.

I think to stop the visit for such a small thing is throwing mud into the face of the ideals of inter-faith dialogue. If we speak about high principles and wisdom than this is just a big blow to that; we are buckling due to common public perception based on a false foundation.

Akal Takhat Unfortunately, the audio is in Punjabi but I am hoping to do an article on this as it was an eye-opener for me and I am sure you will be suitably alarmed to find out the realities surrounding the way the jathedar is elected and the minimum power that he really possess. More of this later.

Picture Gallery
the US President
President with US Marine Corps cap

Kind regards, Hari Singh^talk 14:20, 23 October 2010 (EDT)

Indeed, such a sad state of affairs

Bhai Sahib ji

What a miserable state of affairs! Baba Farid is recognised by many communities for his deep reverence for God and for his recognition of the true message of Allah! It is sad that all these ignorant people can do is try and cause injury to the innocent people who understand the meaning of peace and love.

Obviously, these misguided thugs cannot see the path of truth being followed as their trade in corruption and slavery is ebbing away. The region has a serious deficit in morality and righteousness - many still wish to live in the middle-ages!

Bhai sahib, many thanks again for highlighting this story; it good to be well informed although it is depressing to see humans behaving is such a lowly manner. Raab rakha, Hari Singh^talk 23:09, 25 October 2010 (EDT)

Many thanks for the link; have left a comment at the news article site - hopefully it will get published -

"Baba Farid ji is also a revered Sikh Bhagat and I find it difficult to understand how any person who calls himself or herself “human” can do such a horrendous thing at the sacred shrine of such a holy man of God.

However, despite such inhuman behaviour, we need to remember what Baba ji has said in his bani:

“Fareed, answer evil with goodness; do not fill your mind with anger.” (bottom of page 1381 of Sri Guru Granth Sahib) quoted from: http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Bani_Baba_Farid_7

God will take care of these evil people. However, all the peoples of God need to unite against this devil called taliban; or al qaeda or whatever. We cannot let our small differences become a wedge that gives these men of terror a hold in society. God belongs to all and we all belong to Him! So please unite in our fight against “adharam” – unrighteous and “anti-Godly” acts by these terrorists."

Hope the appointment with the dentist went well and that all the teeth are still intact! Kind regards, Hari Singh^talk 12:22, 27 October 2010 (EDT)

Bhai Sahib ji,

Dentist: As one grows older, this is always a fear - When you turn up at the dentist, the result could be leaving with one less tooth. My wife has some pain on one side of her jaw and I fear for the outcome when she too sees the dentist tomorrow!

I hope one less tooth is not going to have any significant impact on your life. I know that my brother has lost a few and everyone left is now vital!

Article on Baba Farid: I have just checked the article and yes, the comments have been published - I also read the next comment which is very poignant and I attach it here for your attention: "It is ironic that shrine of a person who converted tens of thousands to Islam through message of love and peace is attacked by so called Muslims who have successfully painted Islam as a religion of hate and made Islam a target of hatred worldwide."

I am sure that there are a combination of problems with the government in Pakistan for these attacks to continue to increase and one hopes that some change will come soon!

Hope the pain goes away. Kind regards, Hari Singh^talk 09:50, 28 October 2010 (EDT)

Placing links to adverts

Bhai sahib ji, Many thanks. The user Shxxxxx? has been blocked; may be he has nothing better to do at the moment! You vigilance is appreciated. Kind regards, Hari Singh^talk 23:17, 26 October 2010 (EDT)

Interesting article

Veer ji,

Many thanks as always for an article which is well considered and throws a little new light on this recent cancer of humanity. Hopefully, by focussing on this unfortunate disease that has inflicted our species, will we find a slow but sure cure. Many thanks again. Raab Rakha, Hari Singh^talk 19:54, 3 November 2010 (EDT)

Veer ji,

Excellent video about such a strong personality; many thanks for taking the trouble to give me the link. It reinforces the line where the Guru says that in kaljug (the dark age) which is now, kirtan will dominate; it is clear that certainty music has its magical influence and it can help make people rise above the doom and gloom around them! An essential portion for our troubled times!

Most grateful to you, Veer ji; really enjoyed it and it also gave me an insight into an unexplored and relatively new domain which I have only a very vague and sketchy knowledge about. Many thanks and kind regards, Hari Singh^talk 13:08, 5 November 2010 (EDT)

Your Bandi chhor good wishes most welcomed and graciously accepted; may the Lord's blessings be with you and your family too at all times. Raab sada rakha hova (May God always protect), Hari Singh^talk 19:00, 5 November 2010 (EDT)

Sandy Travels and nanak Travels to mecca

Hello Sir, Kindly visit the following link,

it contains a page of Sandy Travels who went to arabia during his tour.

Now days thispage is quoted by our sikhs to prove that nanak went to mecca. I read whole page but i am not getting where actually it is written that he went to mecca or where is the sign which support that nanak went there or something like this. The page is blurred in look, have a look on this so that i could warn these scholars or missionaries that they are taking wrong page to prove this fact and it have no relation with nanak.

if it has relation with nanak kindly simplify the whole writing and tell the line number which support this. I am trying to read it but i am not getting whcat story actually is going on. if you have your personal book of SANDY Travels by George Sandy, kindly put this page online so that one could read clearly.

Do collaborate.......thanks (Lucky 14:04, 11 November 2010 (EST))

Article "Sikh"

Bhai sahib ji,

I noticed the following on the above page - it does not seem to be very clear what this means?

DAWN.COM ON FACEBOOK

dawn.com on Facebook, he is strong".

Obviously as this was right at the beginning of the page, I have taken it off as it could cause confusion about what the word "Sikh" and our credibility generally?

I wonder what you were trying to convey? Kind regards, Hari Singh^talk 20:14, 11 November 2010 (EST)

Sandy's travels and other theories about Guru Nanak

Bhai Sahib ji,

Many thanks for the message. I am of the same view as expressed by you. I do not think that Harpal Singh Kasoor website can be considered a serious site to obtained historical facts. He has some interesting theories and with more research we may or may not be able to support these theories. As you say, Sandy Travel Page 97 has no mention of Guru Nanak so cannot be used to support the Guru visit to Mecca.

I don't think there is any bad intention in Kasoor's work but an over-powering mind, indulging in the extreme which has produced some interesting views; however these views at present have no scientific or historical basis.

One thing that is of value is the inscription of the Mool Mantar at the temple in Baku. It is difficult to understand how and when this inscription ended up on this shrine. Does it have a serious connection with Guru Nanak or is it the work of someone who has a distant connection with Sikhi? Although we have covered this here at SikhiWiki, more research could help establish the nature of the link to Sikhi.

Many thanks for your comments and your contribution to this discussion. I hope someone with take time to explore in proper scientific way some of the ideas that have been put forward by this website. Kind regards, Hari Singh^talk 19:37, 13 November 2010 (EST)

Religious Casteism alive and well in Nankana District & I just love to sing in Punjabi

Veer ji,

Many thanks for the excellent links. It is amazing that the place where Guru Nanak was born, the practise of casteism continues. Millions of people in far-off places have heard the call of Nanak and have been elevated while the ignorant ones living just a few miles from Nanak's birth place have heard nothing!

How low humans get in ignorance and darkness. Without education and mental realisation, one lives in hell. One ray of light is that there is at least one journalist who has some sense! Let's hope there are a few more sensible people left in Pakistan and in the judiciary in Nankana Sahib District!

Interesting story: I found a few links to the Gori's (white girl's) videos. I don't think her voice appears to fit the "desi" music style but she has a "novelty" value for the Punjabis as they probably have never seen a white girl singing in their language!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-YbE0tLMDA
http://www.youtube.com/user/anitalerche
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97KZGgQyo7k Aao ji, ji aian noon Please come, you are most welcome!

Anyway hope she is successful in her venture. I am sure she will have great fun but success is another thing.

Regards, Hari Singh^talk 12:31, 21 November 2010 (EST)

Banda Bahadur

Veer ji,

I had always assumed that Banda Singh was actually wearing a turban and only now have I noticed that he may have a metallic "helmet" with a spike on top of his turban. Unfortunately, there is no historical record as far as I know to confirm this issue and it may be best to change this if possible.

Also, we know that in the 2 WWs, the Sikhs choose to fight without helmets; there must have been some reason for them to press for this requirement and I assume that they choose this mode of dress as their predecessors had insisted on the same mode previously.

I have tested a normal motor cycle helmet with my turban and I can confirm that it is too small to fit on top of a normal turban; you can fit the helmet over a patka but not over a normal turban. The problem of cyclists and motor cyclists is the "inconvenience" of carrying a turban with you if you have to wear a helmet. And what happens if you forget your turban! For this reason, in the UK, turban wearing Sikhs are exempt from this regulation. I don't think it has resulted in any "additional" burden on the National Health Service (NHS) with increased injuries to the head.

Many thanks for the effort in changing the image. Raab rakha, Hari Singh^talk 18:36, 23 November 2010 (EST)

Harpal Singh Kasoor and User:Cocogijoqop

Veer ji,

Many thanks for your messages regarding the two above pages; the second is gone due to your vigilance and I am hoping to edit the article on H S Kasoor in due course. As you mentioned, I am not convinced that his research is dependable in its present form.

Also, the details on the user information has no references and may not be too reliable as such. I noticed that Sunny Singh Doad actually set-up this page; I wonder if he too was excited by some of the "discoveries" highlighted by H S Kasoor? I will try and deal with this page soon. Many thanks for bringing these to my attention. Raab rakha, Hari Singh^talk 09:05, 3 December 2010 (EST)

user has fun and Nirmal Jit Singh Sekhon

Bhai Sahib ji,

Many thanks for you messages; I have made a note of the user with changing suffix to his name and will deal with it as soon as another user profile is created. Unfortunately, I have not figured out how to deal with these abuses via the IP address but will try and see if the Mediawiki site offers any help. I am grateful to you for your vigilance and proactive stand in this regard.

Nirmal Jit Singh Sekhon: Yes, that's a good point - featuring this article for Vijay Divas. However, we need to improve this article so that we have a little more information and better presentation that is to be expected of a 'featured article'.

Obviously I do not expect the accounts by the two opposing sides to agree on what actually happened at the time; so it is not expected to give such a "compromised" view. What is clear is that the India Air Force was impressed by the courage of this pilot and chose to award him one of the highest award granted to an airman at the time. I think that is the main angle to pursue as that is what his peers appreciated and decided about this person.

Please make a start on the revision to the article and I will join in as well. Many thanks for your useful suggestions. Kind regards, Hari Singh^talk 21:00, 8 December 2010 (EST)

Many new users daily

Bhai sahib ji,

Many thanks for your message and good wishes. May you and your family also have a most pleasant, prosperous and enjoyable New year.

I have sent an email to the technical guys at Sikhnet to implement a "Captcha" security system on user creation. Unfortunately, they appear to be on "vacation" but hopefully they will be able to get this security feature working soon after they return from their New year holidays.

The creation of these redundant users does not create any obvious problem but it is best stopped if at all possible. I will keep you updated on the progress. Kind regards. Raab Rakha, Hari Singh^talk 13:38, 2 January 2011 (EST)

Gur Sikh Temple

Bhai sahib ji,

Many thanks for the very interesting link to the 100 year old Gurdwara in Canada. I have featured a short intro with a link to this article in the 'Daily News' section on the Mainpage. Kind regards, Hari Singh^talk 21:05, 4 January 2011 (EST)

Lahore

Hanji, my pleasure. I was busy setting up an non profit jathebandi to help poor sikhs in India and Pak, we are starting our work in Pakistan, so i wanted to set more info on Pak article :D

Families fine thanks, how are you and your family? Been a real long time. SunnySinghDoad 13:23, 11 January 2011 (EST)

Fatal shooting prompts outcry

Bhai Sahib ji, Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh

It is very good to hear from you after a long time! I hope all is well with your good self and the whole of the family. Many thanks for the message.

It is a sad piece of news in what is becoming an increasingly intolerant world. I have linked into the Sikhnet news section which appears to be covering this incident in some detail. It seems that just taking a walk is becoming a risk in one of the richest countries of the world. We have had similar crimes in many parts of the affluent world which is deeply concerning.

In the past, we were accustomed to poor individuals mainly in parts of Africa, robbing and killing for money and other expensive items but now it is not greed that is the motivation but intolerance and human division - A very ugly and serious development and a clear sign of diminishing moral standards in the world has is getting materially richer by the day. Today, we have more material wealth but morally we have become poorer. Where in the past morality and spiritual values meant something now it accounts for nothing! An alarming development which if unchecked will result in total misery for the world.

Many thanks again. Kind regards and the Lord's glorious blessings, Hari Singh^talk 02:31, 8 March 2011 (EST)

Prayer for Japan

Veer ji, Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh

Many thanks for fixing my errors in the text relating to the above article; although I had read the article several times, I failed to "see" my own mistakes. I find that when I am tired, many more mistakes result.

As always, I am most grateful to you. Many thanks also for improving the general standard of the writing on this website.

I think I have been spending too many hours daily watching the awful scenes of the disaster; a very sad and heart-wrecking tragedy for the innocent people of Japan. Kind regards, Hari Singh^talk 12:21, 15 March 2011 (EDT)

Sikh adverts & Derea walas

Bhai Sahib ji, Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh

Ad Links I have noticed the advertising links by this user and I taken a few out when they were placed on articles having no association with the 5Ks but I have left others on articles related to the 5Ks.

The reason for this is that some Sikh communities are not able to buy the 5Ks locally and these links possible provide a "much needed" service to these communities.

For this reason, I believe that we should allow a few of these types of links of this sort but there will come a time when we have to perhaps place a restriction on these types of links and narrow them to a special page of say - something like - "Sikh artefacts retailers".

At present as there are not too many of these links, I have let them stay provided they relate to the subject matter on that page. However, I think if we start getting too many of these links, we will have to rethink our position on this. Bhai sahib, what are your views on this?

Ullus - (stupid, blind as) - Owls

Bhai sahib, I could not find the remark - "spreading his blasphemy to the Ullus willing to listen" that you quote but I am of the same view as you; the Gurus could not engage in such language or behaviour.

Many Sikhs do not understand the deep message of the Gurus and very frequently misinterpret their words in a way to suit their own prejudices. I hope this helps but if you need me to look at the matter in more detail, please let me know where this quote appears. It is very dangerous to associate such language to our Gurus and if it is still present in the article, I would like to remove it immediately - the fact that I cannot find it perhaps means that it has been removed already. Raab rakha, Hari Singh^talk 04:18, 20 March 2011 (EDT)

Sir i hv already removed the word Ullu Sarbjeet Singh

News and Sikhi related products

Veer ji, Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh

Sikhi related products I agree, it may be a better idea to group these adverts onto individual pages - I will try and start that in the near future as I am sure this trend is going to grow. I noticed that SikhKaras.com has approached Sikhnet and now appears on the sidebar - I think you did mentioned that for a similar website! Perhaps they have been listening to our conversation?

News item The news item Dishonour to Sikhs... is on the News section. Many thanks for the alert.

Raab Rakha, Waheguru's blessing to you and your family, Hari Singh^talk 06:28, 23 March 2011 (EDT)

Kauda Bheel

Bhai sahib ji, Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh

Many thanks for a most intriguing link - It is almost unbelievable! 500 years after the great Guru's mission in that region, we still have individuals who can engage in such a degrading and inhumane habit. I think the family must be devastated having lost a close member and then finding this!

I don't know about Islam but I think the Guru covers this in the general statements about killing beings: Kabeer, they oppress living beings and kill them, and call it proper. When the Lord calls for their account, what will their condition be? ||199|| and also You kill living beings, and call it a righteous action. Tell me, brother, what would you call an unrighteous action? You call yourself the most excellent sage; then who would you call a butcher? ||2||.

I think these statements make you wonder and question the whole aspect of killing other beings and the justifications advanced! Many thanks again for the link. Kind regards, Hari Singh^talk 18:30, 7 April 2011 (EDT)

Anna Hazare

Veer ji, Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh

Sorry for the late response. No coverage of this on UK news channels especially nothing on BBC News. There appears to be a lot of coverage of national news with Libya, Syria, Yemen and Japan coming a close second; unfortunately very little from India.

I have Googled this and the news seems like an interesting development; corruption is still a big problem for many developing nations and India, in particular, is badly affected. Hopefully something good will come from his efforts. However, corruption within nations is like a huge locomotive train; it can take a very long time to stop. So unless drastic steps are taken, this national disease will not go away easily.

Also, the higher you climb up on the political ladder, the more corruption you find. For this reason, the cleansing is going to doubly difficult. Anyway, I wish him well and hope that he will start something new in the nation. Many thanks for the alert; kind regards, Hari Singh^talk 18:25, 11 April 2011 (EDT)

Peshawar & Rabab

Bhai sahib ji, Sat Sri Akal

Many thanks for the link. It is a great picture and I have downloaded it. I hope to use it for an article on manufacturing of this instrument when I have gather enough material to construct the article. It is a shame there was no write-up on the Rabab manufacturing or any other aspect of the instrument. Many thanks again; a useful resource for later. King regards and my good wishes, Hari Singh^talk 20:59, 13 May 2011 (EDT)

Many thanks for being so alert and for reading my reply so carefully; as you had correctly gathered, I only downloaded and read the one picture and relating text. Thanks to your acute awareness, I now have 7 beautiful pictures for a future article. I'm most grateful to you. Guru's blessings and kind regards, Hari Singh^talk 20:40, 14 May 2011 (EDT)

Contribute Here

Sikh Books

Regards

(Lucky 17:09, 30 May 2011 (EDT))

Wrong practise by new user

Bhai Sahib ji,

Many thanks for the message and for asking about my and my family's well being; we are all in satisfactory health and in good spirits. I hope that you and your family too are keeping well.

Thanks to your alertness, I have taken action to reverse the changes made by the user and sent him a message to make him/her aware of our policy in respect of making any major changes to any article. Hopefully s/he will take heed! Kind regards, Hari Singh^talk 22:46, 30 May 2011 (EDT)

Your views about it

Sometimes we use adjective with some words which makes feel that word have no greatness in itself for example:

1) Gursikh -> Devout Gursikh, as Gursikh is always devout 2) Gurmat -> Tatt Gurmat, as Gurmat is always Tatt, what is fake gurmat? 3) Great Devotee -> as devotee is always great, what is small devotee? and so on.

Dhann Dhann Satgur Shri Guru Tegh Bahadur Maharaaj ji <---- When we say SATGUR TEGH BAHADUR, itself imples that he is dhann dhann and maharaaj(jis nun bakshe sifat salah nanak patshah patshah and sat purakh jis janeya satgur tis ka naao).

I think you understand what i want to convey. The words in Gurbani like Gurmat, Gurmukh, Satgur etc etc etc. already are so great wordss that it does not require any adjective.

General Talk, what you feel ? Kindly share your great views <--- see again great!!!! :) (Lucky 02:21, 31 May 2011 (EDT))

response by Gghatore

Bhai sahib ji, Sat Sri Akal

Many thanks for highlighting the response by Gghatore and for picking up what, as you say, is a common mistake made by many new users.

Your help, keen eye and acute sense of responsibility is much appreciated. Many thanks again and kind regards, Hari Singh^talk 14:37, 1 June 2011 (EDT)

Interesting article

Bhai Sahib ji,

I could not find a link - May be it did not copy correctly - Please can you try again. I would love to read the article. No, I don't mind being called a infidel! or being labelled Hindu! Living in this world of extremes has taught me that tolerance is an essential part of survival and a necessity if you want peace in your life. Many thanks and warm regards, Hari Singh^talk 08:23, 7 June 2011 (EDT)

news from Elk Grove

Veer ji,

Many thanks for the link.

It is a matter of great shame and pity that even when we have such a diverse, multi-cultural community in Elk Grove apparently living in harmony, there is still serious, deep rooted and sour enmity among at least a few of the members of this apparently peaceful community! It begs the question, when will the individuals of the human race begin to listen to the wise words of wisdom uttered by so many for so long! Was the mission of Lord Krishna, Jesus Christ, Moses, Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) and all the others in vain? At present, it look that way, doesn't it?

Warm regards and my best wishes to you and your family, Hari Singh^talk 15:44, 12 July 2011 (EDT)

Killings in Elk Grove

Veer ji, Sat Sri Akal

Many thanks for sharing your ideas about these terrible killings. Unfortunately, I could not access the first link as it requires a paid membership. However, I understand the point that you make. It is amazing how man had moved into another territory of crime to establish "honor"; this honor is about the same as the dreaded honor that many Asians feel when killing their daughters! A terrible development, whichever way one looks at it.

Innocent lives lost for what? This sort of irresponsible behaviour will only bring pain to society and the sooner we realise this, the better. Better education; better moral standards; better awareness; and higher values have to be established if we are to see real peace and happiness on this planet. This all appears to be a very distant dream at present! The Lord's blessings, Hari Singh^talk 02:10, 19 July 2011 (EDT)

Many thanks for the image of the news item. It is a really sad bit of news in an otherwise peaceful area. How awful that so many people die daily from gun crime in the USA.

There is an email on the news item; it may be an idea to send them an email to suggest the link between the two investigations involving Ford pickup trucks.

Isn't it time to ban the free licence to carry a gun? It appears that a lot of lunatics in the USA like to carry and use guns to settle their differences. To me that is an appalling situation.

Veer ji, stay safe and keep well, Hari Singh^talk 18:48, 20 July 2011 (EDT)

Mark Stroman's death

Veer ji, Sat Sri Akal

Many thanks again for bringing another amazing story to my attention - the victim trying to save the assailant! This is a really noble gesture and obviously a little foreign to the "American Way" where its an eye for an eye. Shame that another life is wastefully lost!

I also read the story here - http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jul/21/texas-executes-911-revenge-killer at one of our more renowned newspaper and also read Mr Storman's website. What becomes very clear is the poor moral and ethical standards of this person's understanding. He has "picked up" the hatred and prejudices portrayed in the media and has no education or understanding of a higher level of thinking or any higher awareness of the value of life.

It is like provoking a dog - its reaction is predetermined. Similarly, Mr Storman has been bombarded with the message of hatred and Islamophobia; of anger and ill-feelings against people who do not belong to the "American way"; of the rights of the "European race" or "white man" due to their "sacrifices". He can ill understand that there is a big world outside USA which also has their way of life (probably going back 1000's of years not just a few 1000's); and they too have "their" rights.

Shame that a society ill equips its citizens for the world that surround them and then when they react in the only way that they know, the system then continues to systematically kill them in the name of law! Just to quote from wikipedia: "Among juveniles (for example, minors under the age of 16, 17, or 18, depending on legal jurisdiction) serving in correctional facilities, 86% owned a gun at some point, with 66% acquiring their first gun by age 14." If children are not taught self-discipline and the rights to life of others, and can get access to guns at an early age, it is natural that they will succumb to the power of the gun! It is the natural path to take.

A very interesting story which opens many angles of discussion but the issue is totally sad and is wasteful existence for many caught in this web. Guns and force appears to rule the waves at present! There is no compassion or forgiveness in this brave new world. It is indeed sad that so many die each year and still the crime rate continues to climb. Better education; more integration; less flag waving; more diversification are probably needed! What do you think, Veer ji? Warm regards, Hari Singh^talk 12:08, 21 July 2011 (EDT)

Worried

Veer ji, Sat Sri Akal

Many thanks for your message of concern. With the Lord's blessings everything is fine in our locality. Most of the looting and destruction is to businesses and their premises in a few isolated suburbs of London and to a lesser extent to a few other towns in England.

Unfortunately, the pented-up pressure created by this long recession has found a leak in the disillusioned youth; this pressure is being released recklessly resulting in these riots. Today's demanding society has inflicted many wounds on the lives of its members and the youngsters have found this a way to vent their anger.

Hopefully, the police will be out in larger numbers tonight and we hope that these rebels will realise that now there will be a bigger risk of arrest. So, maybe we will have less disturbance in the future. Many thanks for asking. Hope you too are keeping well. Warm regards, Hari Singh^talk 11:22, 9 August 2011 (EDT)

Problem, “Sain eeh bare Allah wale lok hun!” and another

Veer ji

I think I am getting the same problem. I tried to do this reply on Sikhiwiki and it zapped me out. So I have prepared this on Wordpad and then posted it onto Sikhiwiki. I will send an email to the technical guys!

Also, Veer ji many thanks for the links. I have read all the stories and they were very interesting; the one on Sufism was a little too detailed for me to follow fully but still enlightening. I will add more when I have a more stable system. Kind regards, Hari Singh^talk 21:08, 22 August 2011 (EDT)

Veer ji,

The system now works for me. How is it for you?

Warm regards, 18:08, 23 August 2011 (EDT)

Tragedy in Delhi

Veer ji, Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh

Many thanks for the links to the tragedy that has taken place in Delhi; it is deeply disturbing news. More innocent people killed by cowards who behave in such a degrading and inhumane manner. May they all go to hell forever - never to return to this earth! Kind regards, Hari Singh^talk 18:27, 7 September 2011 (EDT)

UK woman who has newly learned of Jallianwala Bagh massacre

Veer ji

Many thanks for the link - it's a great story and a worthy Sikh cause. I will set-up a link so that more UK readers can sign the petition. Excellent find! Warm regards, Hari Singh^talk 14:43, 13 September 2011 (EDT)

Faujah Singh, runner in the news

Veer ji

Sat Sri Akal. Hope all in well in your domain.

Many thanks for the link and timely reminder; I have put a short piece in the news section on the main page with a link to the news about this great achievement as narrated at the BBC website.

Warm regards, Hari Singh^talk 20:31, 17 October 2011 (EDT)

Fauja Singh - No Guinness book record

Veer ji, Sat Sri Akal

Many thanks for the link. I will wait for a few more reports locally and then adds this sad development to the article.

Kind regards, 17:45, 1 November 2011 (CDT)

a story of interest

Veer ji,

Many thanks for your message and the interesting link. I will create a news link when I get back to the UK. I am at present visiting India and as the broadband access here is restricted, I am unable to carry out my normal duties at Sikhiwiki.

I am also concerned that you cannot edit articles at Sikhiwiki. That problem has been resolved and I would like to deal with this on my return. Please could you kindly give me a brief summary of the problems that you face in using our website.

Kind regards,Hari Singh^talk 12:34, 22 November 2011 (CST)

Problems editing

Veer ji, Sat Sri Akal

Many thanks for your detailed message. Luckily, after 3 years of trying, we were able to travel as a family to India; our 2 adult kids had never been to Punjab and finally, we were able to make it happen this year with the Lord's assistance.

It is a challenging country to visit but has a tremendous amount of history and hence worth doing if at all possible. I hope that one day you will be able to come to India; as you say virtual visiting is also getting very good and is less prone to the pollution, dirt and heavy traffic!

I had the same problem that you mention but eventually this has gone away. When the system asks for the two words to be entered, first refresh and get a new set of words by pressing the refresh button a few times to get an "easy" option of words; then enter the two words and the system will accept the answers.

I found that the first words never worded correctly and only by pressing the 'refresh' button did I get the system to work. So please try this and see if you can overcome this hurdle. I think that once you have answered this correctly, the system should refrain from this security check. Please let me know how you get on.

Many thanks and kind regards, Hari Singh^talk 04:24, 26 November 2011 (CST)

Veer ji,

I have made a few changes to your account. Could you please try a small editing session to test if this has cured the system problem.

Many thanks and kind regards, Hari Singh^talk 13:21, 3 December 2011 (CST)

Problems editing

Veer ji, Sat Sri Akal

Sorry to hear that the this problem continues; I too had to enter the Captcha words several times yesterday. Although this is annoying, I was able to continue after entering the two words. I have sent an email to the technical guys to see if they can disable this check. I keep you post on developments.

Please accept my sincere apologies for this inconvenience. Kind regards, Hari Singh^talk 09:06, 14 December 2011 (CST)

Veer ji,

Please try again as I am told by the technical folks that the security feature has been stood down to the "minimum" setting!

Regards, Hari Singh^talk 13:24, 14 December 2011 (CST)

Veer ji, Sat Sri Akal

It is upsetting to read the message that you are not even able to insert a single comma to a page. It may be due to the change that I made a few days ago; I have removed you from the bot group as this does not appear to be helping us. I hoping this will help you to continue editing the website.

As you know I too had this "captcha interruptions" every few edits and fortunately, I have some release from this at present due to complaints to the technical guys. Please see if the removal from the bot group has made any difference.

Kind regards, Hari Singh^talk 09:01, 17 December 2011 (CST)

Veer ji Sat Sri Akal,

I am terribly sorry that you continue to have this problem. However, it was good that you were able to get past the "Captcha security screen" but I cannot understand the logging out from the system - I have never had that. I still get the captcha screen now and then but there has been an improvement recently as I am able to do useful work without interruption.

I will send you an email asking for certain details and we will try and see if we can improve the situation. Please let me know if there are any improvements in the meantime.

Another option is to temporarily create a new user account - say "allenwalla2" or even "aw2" and see if that behaves any better. At least then we will know if it is related to the username or your ip address.

Warm regards, Hari Singh^talk 11:55, 19 December 2011 (CST)

Sikhiwiki problems - urgent

Veer ji,

I tried to email you but the email bounced back. Please can you contact me by email at [email protected] - Many thanks. 12:48, 20 December 2011 (CST)

problems editing

Veer ji,

Please refer to my email that I have sent to you just now. Many thanks and kind regards, Hari Singh^talk 18:08, 8 January 2012 (CST)

Thanks for the link

Veer ji,

Many thanks for the link. I have not read it yet but marked it for reading in the morning. Kind regards, Hari Singh^talk 19:17, 13 February 2012 (CST)

A Bit of News

Veer ji,

That is indeed very good news. Hopefully, it will lead to a better understanding among the different communities that make up the capital city. I will post a link to the article in the news section soon. Many thanks and kind regards, Hari Singh^talk 07:43, 17 May 2012 (CDT)

Another possible news post

Veer ji, Many thanks for another interesting looking link. I will read this in more detail in the next few days and assess it at the next update of the news & interesting links. I am most grateful for your suggestions. Many thanks again and kind regards, Hari Singh^talk 20:27, 24 May 2012 (CDT)

Neighbors and the world

Veer ji, Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh

Many thanks again for the link; a sad development but one hopes that their deaths will not be in complete vain. It is obvious that the message of peace, unity and the brotherhood of human kind had not reached the killer. Despite the 500+ years, still many have not heard the loving words of Guru Nanak yet!

Sorry to hear about your struggles with Sikhiwiki logons - I am able to work reliably now; at times I have worked for hours with no interruptions. It frequently presents a Captcha screen at the first edit but then let me continue in peace! Do you think that the problem you are having with Sikhiwiki editing is fixable? Do you use Windows or Mac system? Please could you give me some background to the system that you use to see if we can get to the bottom of this issue?

Many thanks; Kind regards, Hari Singh^talk 23:16, 11 August 2012 (CDT)

I came from the dreamtime

Veer ji, Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh

Many thanks; an interesting nostalgic story about the good old bygone days. I am most grateful for the link. Hari Singh^talk 21:25, 30 August 2012 (CDT)

Bicycle, 21 Rupees and Lala Pindi memories

Veer ji, Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh

Many thanks for another beautiful story. If only the human race had the same freedom that wild animals or birds have, we would not be confined by the iron bars called borders! Kind regards, Hari Singh^talk 19:47, 25 October 2012 (CDT)

The death of a Maharaja - Indeed, "a hero's luster is never tarnished".

Veer ji, Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh

Again, many thanks for sending me the link - it was a most interesting article on the actual death and the non-Sikhi practise of Sati by the Hindu queens of the Maharaja. I am saddened that no one even attempted to save the poor souls from this deeply evil custom.

Regarding the sewa during the the storm in New York and New Jersey - It is about time we have more Sikhs helping the needy and deserving in their local communities rather than serving langar to the full and satiated among themselves; great work and I hope we will see more of this type of sewa in the future. Kind regards, Hari Singh^talk 20:07, 12 November 2012 (CST)

Acknowledgement - late but not never!

Veer ji, Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh

Today, I was looking at the article on Harmandar Sahib and saw the beautiful plan that you had done when we were working on this article in 2008 and I thought I must acknowledge the great work that you put into this plan. I have (a bit late but as they say - better late than never!....) included an acknowledgement at the bottom of this article on Harmandar Sahib here.

Sorry its a bit late; but your work is greatly appreciated and will proudly live on at this website. Kind regards and many thanks, Hari Singh^talk 05:24, 26 December 2012 (CST)

Sat Sri Akal, Richard

It certainly has been very useful and a great tool to get an instant idea of the location of the various important landmarks at this holy shrine. Many thanks, again for your excellent image/plan/map. Kind regards, Hari Singh^talk 18:31, 14 January 2013 (CST)

Edits on page Bibi Bhani

Veer ji, Sat Sri Akal

Many thanks for your kind message and concern. I hope too that your family members are all in good spirits and that your health is also holding up well.

I have read the amended version of the above article and you have done a great job. As you mentioned, it was the old custom for fathers not to ask too much of their daughters especially after they had been married. However, Bibi Bhani chose to serve her father into his old age in defiance of the old custom.

Many thanks for your continued help with this website. May the Almighty continue to bless you and assist you in every way possible. Kind regards, Hari Singh^talk 16:48, 20 January 2013 (CST)

No Apology, but a visit! He missed a most valuable opportunity to fix this dreadful leaf in British history.

Dear Veer ji, Sat Sri Akal

Shame, he was not more bolder and braver; he missed an opportunity to fix a wrong done so many years ago. We will need a more stronger person to apologise for the terrible crime that took place here at the cost of the blood so many 1000's of innocent freedom lovers!

Many thanks for the link. Kind regards and good wishes, 19:13, 20 February 2013 (CST)

Sikh yatrees arrive from India to attend Besakhi festival

Dear Veer ji, Sat Sri Akal

Many thanks for the link to an interesting story and the proof of continued lukewarm friendship between the neighbours. However, it seems that the cross-border controls remain the same as before and the volume of traffic has been kept to a minimum; 3000 is a very small number when you know that there are nearly 13,000,000 Sikhs in Punjab! I am sure more would like to go if they could. Many thanks and kind regards, Hari Singh^talk 22:42, 10 April 2013 (CDT)

Quebec to ban Sikh symbols

Dear brother, Sat Sri Akal

Many thanks for the link. This is a great concern; a highly negative move by politician who have no concept of freedom or liberty; They are the ones who are responsible of the rise in crime and lawlessness and the decline in mortality that we observe around the world.

The carrying of these symbols as we all know is a mandatory requirement of Sikhs and for a good reason that has been tried and tested through history. You will remember that when no one raised their voice when Guru Tegh Badadur was beheaded by the evil Mughals and all who were present "hid behind" the "common appearance" of the typical Indian of the time. The mandatory symbols were imposed by Guru Gobind Singh for an important reason - It is so that the Sikhs remember who and what they represent and stand for; that the defence of truth is above all and that they must not hid behind the "normal appearance" when a wrong takes place.

I am most grateful to you for the link. Good health and kind regards, Hari Singh^talk 09:41, 26 August 2013 (CDT)

Sikhs being mistaken as Muslims: Blue Bloods - Episode: Mistaken Identity S4 Ep10 (41:31)

Dear Bhai Sahib ji

Many thanks for the message.

Unfortunately, I am unable to watch the video here in the UK probably because it will be aired on a paid TV channel here and so cannot be seen on youtube or other such 'free' media.

However, I was able to watch the beginning as a teaser and I get a general picture of the plot. I believe that I can understand what you mean when you point to the different time marks in the video. I agree that it is a healthy development which hopefully will bring awareness to the general masses about the different communities that form this world!

Many thanks for highlighting this TV show. Lets hope that we have more of this coming along in the near future.

Kind regards and the best of health. Hari Singh^talk 11:07, 20 December 2013 (CST)

Khalsa Diwan Sikh Temple

Bhai Sahib ji, Sat Sri Akal

Many thanks for your very thoughtful message. I have updated the page Khalsa Diwan Sikh Temple with a bit more data from Wikipedia but not added anything about the recent discovery of the US Navy ANM66 bomb. Please feel free to add this to the page as it will help make the page even more informative.

The Guru's blessings, kind regards and many thanks again, Hari Singh^talk 20:44, 9 February 2014 (CST)

Baenti

Waheguru ji ka khalsa Waheguru ji ki fateh

Waheguruji dass baenti krna chahunda hai ki jo aap ji ne Hari Singh Nalwa di photo upload keeti hoyi hai, ki uss nu dass t-shirt design layi use kar sakda hai?

OK, please include a credit to Sikhwiki

OK

@@ Line 4: / Line 4: @@
 |style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: bottom; height: 1.1em;color:#FF6600" | '''Aslee seetara<small> - The SikhiWiki Working Man's Barnstar</small>'''
 |-
-|style="vertical-align: top; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | "Richard, As a show of my appreciation of your continued, dedicated and tireless work on [[SikhiWiki]] please accept this [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Barnstars SikhiWiki Working Man's  Barnstar]. Many thanks for your continued dedication and hard work. You are doing an most Wonderful job! Well done. I hope you like the barnstar!" Cheers, [[User:Hari singh|<font color="#669933">Hari singh</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|<font color="#669933">talk</font>]]</sup> 18:25, 5 February 2008 (GMT)
+|style="vertical-align: top; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | "As a show of my appreciation of your continued, dedicated and tireless work on [[SikhiWiki]] please accept this [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Barnstars SikhiWiki Working Man's  Barnstar]. Many thanks for your continued dedication and hard work. You are doing an most Wonderful job! Well done. I hope you like the barnstar!" Cheers, [[User:Hari singh|<font color="#669933">Hari singh</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|<font color="#669933">talk</font>]]</sup> 18:25, 5 February 2008 (GMT)
 |}
+==Archived Files==
+{|style="font-size:85%;"
+| width="300px" |
 * [[User_talk:Allenwalla/backup1|User_Talk:Allenwalla:- First Archive]]
 * [[User_talk:Allenwalla/backup2|User_Talk:Allenwalla:- Second Archive]]
+| width="300px" |
 * [[User_talk:Allenwalla/backup3|User_Talk:Allenwalla:- Third Archive]]
+* [[User_talk:Allenwalla/backup4|User_Talk:Allenwalla:- Fourth Archive]]
+|}
+==New messages==
+Interesting bit of code - w &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; a &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; h
+== Archive ==
+Bhai sahib ji,
+Archive has been done. I can't remember seeing any specific introduction for this process but I will try and look these up for future use. For the time being it was easier just to do the archive as it only takes a minute or so. Rab rakha. [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 12:39, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
+==Why Sikhs do not worship Idols==
+Because Idols itself is non living thing, so worshipping idol is Fake worship. If one have to worship by heart why to use idols? Even Guru Granth Sahib is not worshipped in Sikhism, because it's Holy '''BOOK''', books are not wrshipped. It is called GUru because it contains wisdom which when enters in person then becomes Shabad Guru. Thousands bow before granth for it's wisdom but it is not guru for thousands, because only few have understand them. They are blindly calling it Guru, because we call it guru.
+So it's not worshipped but admired or respect. If we will start worship BOOK(Granth) then again we are fools because again it is non living thing. Tomarrow i will start worshipping my Bed.
+So Main concept is god resides in GHAT GHAT not KANN KANN. It resides in heart. We could get it from heart not by these worldly things.
+Now if someone make Picture of guru, it's just imagination, but sir most of the people are stick to pictures, may be you do not know as you are in England. but i have seen in india and heard in most of countries.
+Worshiping picture is again equal to worship idols. If god resides in picture then i have three picture of nanak at myu home and I HAVE GOD.YIPPIE!!!!!
+Now i feel you understand why i created that article.
+Now why i am merging it, because it's not so long topic, so better to make a section in idol worship and put this data there.
+do you know
+Ravidas aginst idol worship - kabir panthis make his idols
+Kabir against idol worship - ERavidasis make his idols and worship it
+Nanak Against idol worship - Sindhi people make idols of nanak
-== Punjabi words ==
+isn't it funny? it's cultural impact.
-Bhai sahib ji, Guru dee fateh
+Now in many gurdwaras photos are worshipped like anything.
-Thanks for the kind words; I am sure you will do an excellent job on the Papaji story - I found it very touching and it would be great to capture that effect!
+GURU STANDING in photo and people is touching feet of photo. they doi not understand it's imagination of someone, you should admire art not to treat it like god.
-[[Parupkari]] is an important word to a Sikh - a pivotal word like the phrase "sarbat dah bhala" unfortunately I have not had a lot of time to work on the article on this word but it refers to a quality of "doing good" to a stranger; to anyone and everyone. Please let me know if this makes sense.
-The second word is a little more difficult to decipher - if it is "Tea-kana" {{sdd|ਟਿਕਾਨਾ}} then it means "place of settlement" which seems to fit in with the use. Let me know if this agrees with the use of the word in the sentence otherwise I will have to look a little deeper! Kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 01:26, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
+that was my point. any criticism pls tell.
-PS: Bhai sahib, I have backed-up your talk page. I hope this was Ok for me to do, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 01:30, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
+Hor sunao how are you howz life going?
+([[User:Hpt lucky|Lucky]] 11:57, 30 July 2010 (UTC))
-==Daroli Bhai==
+== Idol worship ==
-Thank you Bhaaji for your message and guidance. I do hope to keep contributing as much as i can. Regarding daroli bhai , I added more info to the page. I do have some distant contacts in the village and I hope to get some pics from my younger brother of gurudwaras soon as he is a avid photographer and then i will add on the page. Meanwhile  i will try to add more info regarding other uncommon topics related to Sikhs and in my knowledge. patti kamaal in my understanding means street kamaal, but will consult some senior and edit the info to my best knowledge in the coming days.
+Bhai Sahib ji,
-Regards,
+Many thanks for the message which I got from the page history.
-Gur
+Unfortunately, this is an issue which has very strong undercurrents for many Sikhs, especially ones with close ties with India. I believe the main reason for this is the fact that they have very strong hate for the way that Hindus carry out their devotion to idols, statues and pictures of their gods. Also, many consider Hindus as "their rivals" and so to rubbish their practises gives them much satisfaction and pride!
-== Gurdwara Chatti Padshahi Rajouri ==
+For most Sikhs who do not have links with India, this is a non-issue - they know that a picture of a  Guru, for example, has no resemblance to reality and is just an artists representation and a way to better focus on the personality. Further "worshipping" the picture, or the book or even the word will produce no merit in the person; the only thing that will elevate the person is to listen to the words of the wise people and re-focus your living in tune with their wisdom - only that will make you a better person.
+Idol worshipping is a trait historically of the people of India and in many villages, this tradition still continues to this day. Many will "decorate" and "kiss" pictures of their gods and do "arti" with incense and candle (or diva) and truly believe that this dedication will please their god!
+That is the ritual that is criticised in Gurbani. Does this help? [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 19:05, 30 July 2010 (EDT)
+==Ghat Ghat Kann Kann==
+* KANN KANN (PRESENT IN EVERY PARTICLE => NON LIVING + LIVING)
+* GHAT GHAT (PRESENT IN HEART => LIVING)
+Gurbani do not believe in Kann Kann philosphy, but GHAT GHAT philosphy. God resides in heart not in particles. KANN KANN Philosphy people are Grave Worshipper, Idolators, etc.<br>
+Ghat GHat philosphy are finders, true seekers.
+Like Hari SIngh told no use of idol worship, because God is present in beings not My COmputer or my bed or in my glass.
+that is difference i hope clear.
+Ya i have seen Rocket Singh, it's movie on marketing. shown sikh way of life and movie is about making money in ethics, but you must find bit distortion of ethics on rocket singh side too....isn't it? ([[User:Hpt lucky|Lucky]] 22:13, 30 July 2010 (EDT))
+== Rapid transport, Amritsar & RRR...ocket Singh ==
 Bhai sahib ji,
-Yes, there appears to be a duplication here. The best thing is to combine the articles into one and put a redirect from the other page to the one article.
+Thanks for adding this article; I will see if we can get adequate material for a feature or just put this as a news article.
-Important summary gathered:
+Also grateful for your comments on Rocket Singh - I have not seen this movie but now, having read your comments will try and see this film even if it is on DVD. Raab rakha, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 19:37, 1 August 2010 (EDT)
-* {{w|Rajouri District}} is in [[Jammu & Kashmir]] state
-* The word [[Bangla]] refers to the original building which was possibly a bungalow or "haveli" as in the famous Delhi Gurdwara called [[Bangla Sahib]]
-* I have asked Sarbjeet for help with the word "Chatti" as I cannot see how this relates to 6
-Kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 09:48, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
+== Pahul & Kutha ==
-== Chatti ==
+Bhai Sahib ji,
+Many thanks for your detailed messages - I have made some of the changes suggested on both articles and "locked" the [[pahul]] article for new and unregistered users as there was a lot of nonsense added by some of the new users.
-Richard Sir,
+Bhai sahib, I find it annoying when the years from 1699 to 1708 (about 9 years) become more important than the whole of the period from 1469 to 1699 (about 230 years) when the Khalsa Sikh did not exist. Further, some of these Sikhs are completely focused on these rituals and have no idea of the words preached by the holy Granth.
-You are right the word chatti denotes sixth and it is used for the sixth Guru and Jammu Kashmir' s famous and historical Gurdwara Sahib at Kashmir is also named as [[Gurdwara Chatti Patshahi,Kathi Darwaja,Rainwari,Srinagar]]. The Bangla is used for big building or fort.
+Unfortunately, I see a lot of " detail refining" of the old customs and oral tradition started by Guru Gobind Singh especially in 1699 with the creation of the Khalsa. Each of the elements is refined to an infinite degree - The Guru stipulated just five kakkars in very basic terms - Kesh, kanga, kirpan, kaccha and kara - no material was stipulated; no details were given. Now we have many cults who have added others items to these five - Some factions who go further and stipulate materials, dimensions and other additions. More attention is drawn to these customs than to the text and message of the holy Granth.
-pl combine both the articles of Rajouri Gurdwara.
---[[user:sarbjeet_1313me]] 12:29, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
+If these were to be complex requirements and more important than the "shabad", the Guru would have mentioned them in written form! As there is no direct written record of these items, I can only deduce that these are items that are simple and left to the imagination of the individual or the local communities. The whole of the [[Amrit ceremony]] and its requirement is left by the Guru as a "oral tradition" passed from one generation to the next - surely that speaks volumes - If it was intended to be a "strict and rigid routine" or a ceremony where detailed and complex actions were paramount, then I believe that the Guru would have at Nanded sat down and prepared a comprehensive written record.
+Therefore, Bhai sahib, it is my belief that the [[Amrit Sanchar]] ceremony is by design a simple ceremony and the requirements for the Khalsa are easy to memorise and few in number; further apart from these simple requirements, detailed refinement is not necessary or useful for the betterment of the person.
+[[Pahul]]: I have made the change to the four [[Kurehat]]a - Regarding meat - I have left the two options as this is how this works in real life - Some jathas ban meat altogether while some ban halal only; I have reverted to an older version of the article but I think I have captured all your amendments but removed referenced to steel or iron or even wooden for the Kanga as suggested by you; removed the unnecessary references to metals for the kara and kirpan. I could not find the reference to "iron" bowl but again this is not necessary and I will spent more time on this article soon and try and remove these unnecessary "refinements" to the original requirements.
-ssa sir,
+I have also, upon your observation, removed the reference to eye brows and facial hair as I believe that this is just a further unnecessary "refinement" by others. The Guru said "Kesh" which is a reference to the longer hair found on the scalp of most of us and the long hair (beard and moustache) found on the faces of most men. I do not believe that the removal of facial hair by women has any bearing on the word "Kesh".
-kindly tell the words which are confusing you.
+Bhai sahib, all is well with the my family; many thanks for asking. I too hope and wish that you together with all who are near and dear to you are keeping in good health and positive spirits. I have no news about the floods intruding historical Gurdwaras; having spoken to my friend who has many relations in Pakistan, I believe that the flood are confined to the north and the shrines may have escaped the floods. I have watched the news video with great sadness as huge devastation has taken place. May the Almighty have mercy!
---[[user:sarbjeet_1313me]] 04:07, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
+I think the restriction on the Panj Pyare is wrong - women can and do now take part as the five; the same applied to doing sewa at the Akal takhat. When we were in India a few years ago, my niece was allowed to take part without any problems. The monthly cycle in woman is a natural occurrence and cannot be deemed "unclean"; without it none of us would have been born!
+Sorry about the long length of the reply. Keep well, Raab Rakha, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 19:09, 4 August 2010 (EDT)
+== Siri Guru Granth Sahib and Barbarism  ==
-Sir  i m also new to the words , i will try my best to find the real meaning. Thanx
+Bhai Sahib ji,
---[[user:sarbjeet_1313me]] 12:09, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
+'''Siri Guru Granth Sahib:''' What is the Siri Guru Granth Sahib?
-==Haan Ji Sir==
+"The [[Siri Guru Granth Sahib]] is the living Guru (spiritual teacher) of the [[Sikh]]s. Though the Sikhs bow to the Granth (Book), according it the same respect once paid to their living human Gurus, the Sikhs do not 'worship' the [[Siri Guru Granth Sahib]] for that is forbidden – Only the One Almighty God is to be worshipped. Guru Nanak's followers are [[Sikh]]s (seekers of truth). Guru Nanak taught them to bow only before God, and to link themselves to the Guru, the Light of Truth, who lives always in direct consciousness of God, experiencing no separation.
-Sir, Actually Scholars are those people which study for their benifit. Now how they are benifitted you know that. Of course their publications are benifit for people too. But scholars insert their own Matt in it.
-Someone who is studying Guru Granth Sahib, he have to be Gurmukh, not Scholar. He have to learn from guru Granth Sahib not study guru granth sahib but study from guru granth sahib. But Scholar people have their views, which are worldly not spiritually. These scholars have destroyed sikhi with HINDU meanings and their own meanings. They have made various books which are against fundamentals of sikhism. so if you want to be Gurmukh:
+It is 1430 pages of words in a permutation and combination to stimulate the hypothalamus, giving intuition to mother of knowledge, giving us courage, strength of our divine father, and to give us the excellence to be a lion among the beasts and to be the princess of Kaurs."
-Study GUru Granth Sahib yourself, Guru Granth Sahib is Mahankosh of itself, we do not need mahankosh of any scholar. so scholars destroyed sikhi(by giving us vaars, and other granths suraj parkash ,dabistan etc), is destroying(against dasam and sarabloh) and will destroy in future too.
+Bhai sahib, that is excellent and totally correct as far as [[Gurmat]] is concerned - Unfortunately, many do not understand the depth of Gurbani and hence do 'worship' the Granth overlooking the word and the message in the [[Shabad]] which is the essence of the Guru - Please go ahead and add this freely as it is precise message of the Gurus.
-a person who have no work to do become Gurmat scholar and put his mentality in it. So if you want to be Sikh first become follower of guru granth sahib.
+'''Why Sikhs turn away'''
+''...i have wondered why several Sikhs I have written to on this site, who first offered help, wanted nothing to do with me after learning i was not a Sikh, an Indian or perhaps just because i am a westerner? ''
-Do you know the whole english translations of guru granth sahib available on net is not appropriate, but something is better then nothing so accepted. Guru Granth Sahib's each word contain something.
+Bhai sahib, this is probably to do with lack of confidence in themselves - Many Sikhs have only very basic knowledge of Sikhi and therefore probably feel out of place trying to discuss the finer points especially to a westerner who is also "foreign" to them. The strangeness in the experience is probably too much for them to handle - that's my guess!
-Firt become follower then scholar, but what we people do we become scholar first and dont know about follower
+'''Brutality in Afghanistan'''
-classes are going very well, and everything is fine. what about you rab rakha ([[User:Hpt lucky|Lucky]] 12:51, 8 February 2010 (UTC))
+Very touching story of the little girl with the missing nose & ears and the killing of 10 care workers - No words can explain how we as humans can behave in such degrading manner; only the Lord can rectify the minds of the people who carry out such inhumane acts and tread on these repulsive ways; may He give us the strength to overcome such barbaric behaviour - acts worse than performed by animals.
-== Gurbani ==
+Also on the other hand I thanks God that he has given us the technology and compassion to mend some of these scars; unfortunately the lost ones cannot be replaced by us but I am sure they will find peace despite their demise here; the suffering of the relatives will continue for a long time.
-I can't find the exact translation but I am wondering if it is related to [[User talk:Hari singh/shabads1|one of these shabads]] or perhaps a combination of a line or two from several shabads? Please see [[User talk:Hari singh/shabads1|"a few shabads about God"]]. As the original line in Gurmukhi is not quoted and the translation is the writers own, it makes the exercise a little difficult.
+Perhaps, it is for these "over-burdening of sins" that disasters such as in Pakistan now and previous earthquakes and  tsunamis befall some of the regions where there is no adherence to righteousness. It reminds me of the quote in the Dasam Granth [[Ath_Nihkalanki_Chobisvon_Avtar_Kathan#Page_1151]] - ''The earth agonised by sin trembled and began to weep .... Overburdened by the weight of sin, it lamented in various ways before the Lord.137. The Lord instructed the earth and saw her off; He reflected on the measure to be adopted for finishing the burden of the earth.138.''
-Regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 18:02, 9 February 2010 (UTC)
+May the Lord bless us so that these evils are not witnessed by us any more, Raab rakha, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 13:05, 7 August 2010 (EDT)
-== Translation ==
+== Sandhanvalia or Sandharivalia ie N or RI? ==
 Bhai sahib ji,
-It was no trouble going through Gurbani as every time you look for things, you discover many new and interesting poniters; so in fact, it was a pleasure. Now, when the line:
+Thanks for an interesting question - Sandhanvalia or Sandharivalia. I am not too familiar with this family - it seem from the <s>content</s> of the page [http://www.thesikhencyclopedia.com/sikh-political-figures/ajit-singh-sandhanvalia.html HERE] that perhaps it should be "RI" but the name in the title has a "N".
-siqgurpRswid ] bRhmu dIsY bRhmu suxIAY eyku vKwxIAY ] Awqm pswrw krxhwrw pRB ibnw nhI jwxIAY ] (pMnw 846)
-is put through a [http://punjabi.aglsoft.com/punjabi/converter/?show=text correct font converter (Gurbani Akhar to unicode)] it produces:
+I will need to see if I can read some old books online about this family - [http://www.dli.ernet.in/ This is a good place to try]. I will revert back to you soon ....I hope! Raab Rakha, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 11:03, 12 August 2010 (EDT)
-ਸਤਿਗ੝ਰ ਪ੝ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥ ਬ੝ਰਹਮ੝ ਦੀਸੈ ਬ੝ਰਹਮ੝ ਸ੝ਣੀਝ ਝਕ੝ ਵਖਾਣੀਝ ॥ ਆਤਮ ਪਸਾਰਾ ਕਰਣਹਾਰਾ ਪ੝ਰਭ ਬਿਨਾ ਨਹੀ ਜਾਣੀਝ ॥ (ਪੰਨਾ ੮੪੬)
+Bhai sahib ji,
-which says page (or rather paNa) 846 and that gets us to the shabad that you have already found. Translating Gurbani is a very personal thing and many meanings can be derived; its a little like poetry. One can do a word by word translation but it sometimes does not convey the message in the original lines; so the translation given on the site is a translation of the meaning conveyed by the original lines rather than a literal translation of the words.
+[http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/data/upload/0033/574/PTIFF/00000288.tif Could also be Sindhianwala sardars]? see [http://www.archive.org/stream/catalogueofpaint00guptuoft/catalogueofpaint00guptuoft_djvu.txt this as well!] Will update soon. Regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 11:54, 12 August 2010 (EDT)
-'''Translation'''
+== bit of news and Opinion requested  ==
-:Behold the Supreme everywhere,
-:Hear the Supreme in all, Discourse on One and one alone.
-:The Supreme Being has manifested itself in all.
-:The Supreme alone is the creator.
-:Know not other than the Supreme. (page 846)
-'''Original'''
+Bhai sahib ji
-:ਜੋਤੀ  ਜੋਤਿ  ਰਲੀ  ਸੰਪੂਰਨ੝  ਥੀਆ  ਰਾਮ  ॥
-:Joṯī joṯ ralī sampūran thī▫ĝ rĝm.
-:One's light blends with the Light, and one becomes totally perfect.
-:ਬ੝ਰਹਮ੝ ਦੀਸੈ ਬ੝ਰਹਮ੝ ਸ੝ਣੀਝ ਝਕ੝ ਝਕ੝ ਵਖਾਣੀਝ ॥
+Many thanks for the links; particularly the one to ''"Delhi students find main belt asteroid"'' which is both interesting and surprising - I thought that most asteroids had already been charted as this arm of science has been under-way for many hundreds of years! So it is amazing to find that students in India, of all places, have "discovered" this "new" extra-terrestrial object.
-:Barahm ḝīsai barahm suṇī▫ai ek ek vakẖĝṇī▫ai.
-:I see God, hear God, and speak of the One and only God.
-:ਆਤਮ ਪਸਾਰਾ ਕਰਣਹਾਰਾ ਪ੝ਰਭ ਬਿਨਾ ਨਹੀ ਜਾਣੀਝ ॥
+The floods in Pakistan highlight the destructive power of nature and God who most people do not recognise! It shows how quickly things can change from "normal" to perilous - almost at a blink of the eye. Let's hope that things will settle down and some normality will return to the region. If the estimates of the impact of this setback are true than it appears that this tragedy will put Pakistan back 10 years - a reality that they can ill afford considering the difficulties that they have been suffering under the present government.
-:Āṯam pasĝrĝ karaṇhĝrĝ parabẖ binĝ nahī jĝṇī▫ai.
-:The soul is the Creator of the expanse of creation. Without God, I know no other at all.
-:ਆਪਿ ਕਰਤਾ ਆਪਿ ਭ੝ਗਤਾ ਆਪਿ ਕਾਰਣ੝ ਕੀਆ ॥
+Regarding the "new art" depictions of both Mughals and Sikhs, I think some of these "younger" artists have let their imaginations go into overdrive; I cannot imagine that in 16-18th century India you would find anything resembling what can be seen in these photos. Also, as you say, the copyright efforts inserted by the artists are too intrusive for comfort. Let us monitor the position as I do not think there is too many more of these images available and we will step in if this gets out of hand. I think your reaction is perfectly understandable and I agree with your stand; many thanks for highlighting this dangerous trend. Raab rakha, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 12:06, 15 August 2010 (EDT)
-:Āp karṯĝ ĝp bẖugṯĝ ĝp kĝraṇ kī▫ĝ.
-:He Himself is the Creator, and He Himself is the Enjoyer. He created the Creation.
-:ਬਿਨਵੰਤਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਸੇਈ ਜਾਣਹਿ ਜਿਨ੝ਹ੝ਹੀ ਹਰਿ ਰਸ੝ ਪੀਆ ॥੪॥੨॥
+== Question ==
-:Binvanṯ Nĝnak se▫ī jĝṇėh jinĥī har ras pī▫ĝ. ||4||2||
-:Prays Nanak, they alone know this, who drink in the subtle essence of the Lord. ||4||2|| (page 846)
-Interesting story about Kaadi! Kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 01:58, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
+Bhai sahib ji,
-== Fonts ==
+Have part replied on the [[Talk:Gurudwara Amb Sahib]] page; hope this explains a few of the confusing references.
+Sorry, I failed to address one of your main concerns; the concept of copyright when applied to Sikh art or Sikh history in general is a little bit different from the western stand point; traditional, the promotion of Sikh values is considered more important than copyright and so in the past has always been subservient in this respect. Although some movement has taken place in this respect in recent times, I believe that the modern trend has been very slow in changing attitudes in the public domain.
+So far, I have never come across any copyright legal action in a court of law connected with Sikh art or historical accounts; however, this may change! I do not believe that the artist would be concerned as long as his "copyright notice" is not unduly tampered with. If this notice is tampered with then they would get concerned.
+So the notice is there to "advertise" the artist and so has to remain if we wish to use the image. I believe that if the notice is small then this is acceptable otherwise we should not use the image here at SikhiWiki. I believe that the artists are aware and actively desire that their art is displayed but with the "notice" clearly visible. They would not release an image without the notice as this would then be displayed everywhere without any reference to them - they would not want to take legal action in this field of Sikhi and the domain of the Guru where one is supposed to be unselfish, forgiving and generous!
+The need to make the characters more muscular (as if on steroids) than real life is a modern trend and does not reflect reality no matter what the diet of these 17th century humans!
+[[Gyani Labh Singh Bhikhi]] article - Yes, the removal of the photos is warranted having flicked through the series of photos - thanks for your keen observation! Kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 20:08, 16 August 2010 (EDT)
+== Talwar ==
 Bhai sahib ji,
-Certainly if you were visiting these Punjabi sites with the old ascii Punjabi fonts then you would need to make sure that the correct font file had been added to your computer; and there are many different types of these fonts - not all compatible with each other. The huge array of these files is one of the reasons why someone decided to incorporate all the popular languages into the unicode system. You still have font files but at least with unicode the character will display even if it is not in the correct font style- at least you can read the characters!
+Fascinating website showing the extreme skills required to make these excellent weapons; did not know steel was discovered in India; wonderful products produced by a talented craftsman. Many thanks for an enlightening experience. Raab rakha, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 16:39, 18 August 2010 (EDT)
-You can find a few of these font files [http://www.gurbanifiles.org/unicode/ here] and [http://www.sikhitothemax.com/downloads/gurbaniwebthick.ttf here] if you ever need to use them.
+== Mysticism, History of Sikh Gurus Retold, etc ==
-Regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 19:02, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
+Bhai Sahib ji,
+Sorry Bhai Sahib ji, I have read all your interesting messages, taken fair bit of action on some of the issues raised but unfortunately have been running out to time for the last few nights until today. I apologise for the late reply.
+I read the message regarding Mysticism and then went to Wikipedia and did some amendments there; I don't know if those changes will "stick" as the users at Wikipedia have a eager tendency to overwrite things that they are not familiar with themselves.
+I did some research on the concept of "mysticism" which I had not come across before and I think that although this word has not been used before in connection with Sikhi on this site, it is a concept that applies to Sikhi. As I have not encountered this word myself, I will need to become more acquainted with this concept myself first before more can be written by me. We also need to see if others have written about mysticism and Sikhi; if they have then that can be used as a starting position.
+I unable at present to address your question in this respect and will revert to this topic in a few weeks.
+The matter relating to Sikhi and yoga invokes bitterness in traditional Punjabi Sikhs who want to believe that Sikhi has no connection with Yoga. However, when one reads the SGGS, it is clear that the Gurus were familiar with Yoga and supporters of this form of art/skill/therapy.
+'''[http://books.google.com/books?id=qw7-kUkHA_0C&lpg=PP1&dq=Muntakhab%20Ul%20Haqaiq&pg=PA26#v=twopage&q&f=true History of Sikh Gurus Retold: 1469-1606 C.E By Surjit Singh Gandhi]''' Many thanks for the link to this book; indeed it is a valuable resource. I will spent some time reading this book in the next week or so.
-== South Asian Games and more ==
+'''Your wife's video recommendation''' about how Muslims are treated in America was a real eye opener and a very touching encounter towards the end of the video. It is amazing how many "ordinary" people can hold such noble values despite constant media distortions of this minority community. An excellent recommendation; many thanks again. Sorry again and Raab Rakha, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 18:45, 24 August 2010 (EDT)
+== [[Hacienda de Guru Ram Das‎]] and Canada, from a story in al jazeera ==
 Bhai sahib ji,
-* Fallen47 sorted!
+Many thanks as always for your valuable input and highly relevant messages; I am most grateful to you. I have looked at the links that you have referred to and I think the 3HO one is correct but the second one for the Sikh Dharma should be just the one link, the second one for this option - giving  two options of 3ho or www.sikhdharmaworldwide.org, in my opinion is not necessary - just have one link for each one - so my suggestion would be that the line should read:
-* I will have a scan of the South Asian Games and see if it reveals anything interesting linked to Sikhi.
+To learn more about our lifestyle at HGRD, please visit 3HO Foundation [http://www.3ho.org/] and Sikh Dharm [http://www.sikhdharmaworldwide.org/].
-As a senior contributor to SikhiWiki, you are exempt from these kinds of messages that I put up from time to time; in this case the message only applies to users who have been changing the page almost on a daily basis; I did not look at the history but we need to make sure that our coverage, as you say, does justice of our Gurus. Changing the content on a constant basis in a significant way daily does not seem too sensible to me. We need to keep away from politics and try and home into the powerhouse provided by the glorious history of the distant past. As you say, we need to understand that the image of the Gurus is what we project in the end!
+'''Canada & immigration:''' Historically there has always been resistance by the Americas to immigration from Asia; however, I think this has slowly changed and perhaps now a reasonable balance has been achieved. Obviously, it is important for the "new" nations to have a seperate identity and this takes time and careful policies. If too much immigration comes from one country, it is possible for the new identity not to develop.
+When too many people from one country are allowed to come to these nations in a short period of time, there is a strong possibility of very strong links to the "father nations" remaining and hence the likelihood of the development of "freedom fighter" whose mindset remains fixed to the "father nation".  Under these conditions, very little or no real development of the new country can take place. It is difficult balance to achieve and so I agree that the slow acceptance of small numbers from the "old world" is necessary to ensure stability and peace in these countries and for the slow assimilation of the ethnic population into the mainstream community.
+Canada has faced a difficult time with extremist from Punjab, which I know about and extremists other nations as you mention. So I believe that in theory this apprehension in Canada and other western nations is understandable. However, this policy can also, very easily be used as a cover to discriminate and practise ethnic favouritism (a non destructive and softer version of "ethnic cleansing").
+Some of these countries, due to large numbers of ethnic populations, do provide safe havens for development of extremist elements as you rightly say; the so-called Khalistan phenomenon is a classical example. I am not against the development of positive political elements in these countries, even if these are associated with the "father nations" but the promotion of violence and the raising of funds to promote violence in these nations is not acceptable.
+One hopes that the politicians of these "newer" nations will be aware of these tendencies and take heed from the warnings given by PM of India and others about the potential "time bomb" if these elements are not closely and actively monitored and vigorously restrained.
-Bhai sahib, as you are devoted to making the articles more readable and easier to understand, these restrictions do not apply to you. I have noticed that many others here have recognised this noble function that you perform and have, not surprisingly called for your assistance.
+Bhai sahib ji, Raab rakha, may the Lord's love dwell always in your heart, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 09:52, 28 August 2010 (EDT)
-'Guru Hari Krishna' appears odd; I don't think this is due to OCR; more a mis-understanding. It surprises me when the name Hari Krisha is used instead of '''Har''' Krishan. Kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 23:02, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
-== Gurbani and women ==
+==Sajid KHan apologized==
+As you know Sajid KHan apologized for his comments against sikh martial act and he agreed that he did not know much about this tradition.
-Bhai Sahib ji,
+In second round bir khalsa group again performed and judges commented it brilliant.
-Thanks for the link - Burqa ban: What's the fuss, ask Indian Muslims. - Interesting coverage.
+http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNA-kYIxGoM
-The quotes in the article [[Gurbani and women]] are from an eBook by G.S.Sidhu M.A called "Sikh Religion and Women". In preparation for the article which will have mainly quotes from Gurbani I started doing a cut and paste to Sikhiwiki. It will need more work but I thought I had make a start. I listed the link below (its the first one) to help with the development of this article.
+([[User:Hpt lucky|Lucky]] 09:00, 29 August 2010 (EDT))
-'''Links to some interesting ebooks on the web:'''
+== Gatka round 2 and Nourishing Souls ==
-* http://www.justsikhi.com/sikhi/Sikh_Religion_&_Women.pdf
+Bhai sahib,
-* http://www.scribd.com/doc/3858508/Doris-Jakobsh
-It was interesting reading this book yesterday and having looked at the article at SikhiWiki on 'Women', I thought we need to add to this area with quotes from Gurbani. I decided to look for work by other authors when I came across this book. Another one is also listed although I have not had a look at this.
+Many thank for sharing such a delightful photo presentation; indeed a fitting end to a beautiful weekend when the true message of the Gurus is reflected across the different sections of the globe.
-Regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 16:21, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
+With His blessings, may the beautiful glory of the Almighty Lord prevail everywhere. I hope that many hearts will have been touched with these pieces of media presentation and their lives will move towards a more spiritual and meaningful existence with focus on a more merciful, humble and sharing life; always remembering the Supreme power. Sada Raab rakha, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 08:29, 30 August 2010 (EDT)
-== Gobindgharh fort ==
+PS: Have added these links to the article here : http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Harmandar_Sahib#External_Links
+== Amritsar ==
 Bhai sahib ji,
-Obviously this line is incorrect; I think what may have been implied is shutting the "door" or north-western route frequently used by previous invaders into India. As you say the Khyber pass is hundreds of miles away! Please make the necessary changes as this is clearly incorrect. Many thanks and kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 22:34, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
+I was working on this article but have moved on to the five sarovars; so please carry on if you need to. I will reply in greater depth a little later as I am still in the middle of several edits on the sarovars articles with picture uploads, etc. So please excuse me for a little while. Bye just for now, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 19:53, 3 September 2010 (EDT)
+Sorry. No, it wasn't a serious problem for me working on the article although as I did not realise, it did give me a "edit conflict notice". On the contrary, I hope I did not cause you too much frustration as I know the system does not allow simultaneous editing. It would be good if the system gave a warning of simultaneous editing when the second person tried to press the edit button! I am sorry, I seem to have caused you some distress.
+Thanks for asking; all is well here and I hope that you and your family are also keeping well; I hope you getting a good night's sleep without any disturbance these days. I remember that you mentioned previously that you had been unable to rest properly; I hope that problem has gone away.
+I do not know what the word "inhead" means but as you say it appears in a few articles on this site; I think it must be a slang used in India to signify a person who has cut hair or a 'mona' as you say. [[Mona]] means any person who has short cut hair. I agree with your 'Singh Sahib' as I have never heard of this word as well!
+The word does not have any Punjabi meaning nor can I find it on Google when searched on its own but when searched together with the word 'Sikh' it direct the search to the page [[Mona Sikh]] which explains that this is a shorthand used in Punjab for 'mona' or 'rowdha' which means 'bald' but is also used to refer to a mona. Rabh Rakha, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 22:10, 3 September 2010 (EDT)
+==God Sharp Teeth and God is Formless==
+Sir, God does not have Sharp Teeth. When Gurus have to explain attributes of God then at many places in Guru Granth Sahib Gurus made form of Formless God. I Think you have not read what i am trying to convey.
+In Teeth Matter, Guru Gobind Singh is explaining a Destroyer form of Formless God, and he used word Teeth under which he have taken away many for example Earthquake at Haiti(The Dangerous form of Hukam), Tsunami(Dangerous form of Hukam) etc etc and etc. So Their Guru Gobind SIngh have also mentioned that he is FORMLESS and very clearly mentioned before Bani but Some Anti Gobind SIngh's Bani elements use to quote few lines from inside instead of reading whole content and say before people that GOD is formless and GOd mentioned in Dasam Granth have FORM.
+What i have done is i have taken various examples from Guru Granth Sahib that this is poetic impression which is used in Guru Granth Shaib too to explain attributes of God, and remember these attributes are also formless.
+The Teeth mentioned are also formless and The Mace mentioned in God's Hand in Gurbani is also formless.
+Though words are remporal so it makes confusion.
+Basically i am trying to prove that they are using Wrong methodology of condenming and which is not at all perfect and not to believe at all.
+([[User:Thegreateditor|Editor]] 19:13, 9 September 2010 (EDT))
-== Where did Guru Tegh Bahadar get the news? ==
+== Many thanks for 3 years of very valuable contributions ==
-Bhai sahib ji, {{WKWF}}
+Respected Bhai Sahib ji,
+It is with great respect and honour that I have the pleasure of sending this message to you. Today, 11 September 2007, is the [http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&dir=prev&target=Allenwalla 3 anniversary of your first contribution to SikhiWiki]; over this period you have tirelessly and consistently contributed many thousands and thousands of words of invaluable and priceless facts to this website; your dedication is beyond expression in words. It has been an act of love and commitment.
-In fact there may be more than two [[Gurdwara]]s that make this claim; So in addition to the two that you highlighted, I have found another:
+Everyday, without fail you have logged onto SikhiWiki and spent your time without any care of reward or praise or anything else; you have done this as pure [[Seva]] - as an act of labour for the Lord to spread the message of the Gurus. What may surprise some is that you are not born a Sikh but your love for the message of the Gurus has surpassed that which many born in this faith will ever attain. I salute you and your family for the love, endurance and stamina that you have shown.
-* [[Gurdwara Guru Tegh Bahadur, Munger]]
+Despite many hurdles and objections over the last 3 years, you have focused on the central theme and so have shown me and others how seva should be done. Apart from these humble words, I cannot perform any act to express my respect and my feeling of gratitude for the selfless service that you have performed.
-* [[Gurdwara Nanak Shahi, Dhaka]]
-* '''[[Gurdwara Sri Guru Tegh Bahadur Sahib (Dhubri)]]'''
-Bhai sahib, it may be better to say something like this:
+I pray to the Almighty Lord to grant you all your wishes and desires and may all the world's happiness and joys be with you always; may He give you courage and strength to overcome any difficulty and may you always find peace and tranquillity in your heart. Raab Rakha, your humble fellow colleague at Sikhiwiki, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 19:43, 11 September 2010 (EDT)
-It is known that the ninth [[Sikh Guru]], [[Guru Tegh Bahadur]] was on a mission to the east of [[Patna]] in present-day region of Bihar/Assam/Bangladesh  when he got the news of the birth of [[Gobind Rai]]; where exactly he first received this news is disputed as several Gurdwaras claim to the location in question.
+----
+Bhai Sahib ji,
-We can then research this more and modify the above. Or we could do a new article just to cover the issue if we do not find a specific location and discover that the fact is not properly covered in the historical texts.
+Many thanks for your kind response. I was saddened to learn that you were not feeling too well a couple of days ago; I hope your health has improved and has taken a decisive turn for the better now.
-Regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 07:38, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
+You truly have done a fantastic job and I shall always be thankful for your great effort so far. It is a bonus when you say that ''".... each day has been an enjoyable learning experience that has greatly enriched our lives"''. It is really magnificent that you have contributed so much in the 3 years but at the same time you appear to have enjoyed this exercise; it is really magical.
-== [[Vivekananda and Ramakrishna on Sikhism]] ==
+May the Good Lord keep it that way and may you continue to enjoy this great service and the excellent contribution for many many more years. For both our sakes, I hope I shall be sending you a similar message for this selfless service lasting 30 years in 27 years time!
+You may know that the software was set-up by Bhai Gurumustuk Singh of Sikhnet but in the initial period there was little input from the wider audience; anyway, that is history, it appears that we now get a million "hits" a month which is beyond my initial expectations. Many, many thanks again to you both - including Bhabiji as well. Rab Rakha, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 13:49, 16 September 2010 (EDT)
+== Nadar ==
 Bhai sahib ji
-I assume you meant the article page and not the discussion page. I have read the article and find no real appeal in the writing as it fails to quote the two scholars directly or give any convincing evidence; as you say it appears to give little details but is very liberal at levelling criticism on these two folks.  I think we need to improve it with better research or delete it; I remember that Vivekananda said some good things about the Sikh Gurus - see http://www.sikhquotes.org/171.html .
+Many thanks for the message - the article will come later but just a taster for the definition of the word "Nadar" in this amazing paper - Sorry it is a bit long but I hope you will like it, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 20:38, 18 September 2010 (EDT)
+===Dr. Jaswant Singh Neki: Conversation with a Polymath ===
+From Sikh Review '''RAVINDER SINGH TANEJA* ''' * 6172 Commonwealth Dr., Westerville OH 43082. Email: rtaneja@insight.rr.com
+A MAN OF MANY DIMENSIONS and diverse accomplishments, Dr Jaswant Singh Neki is a veritable polymath and a Renaissance man in our midst. At 84 years young, he remains a visible and active presence in Sikh affairs - one of the few public intellectuals that the Sikhs can claim.
-Please, Bhai sahib, as a senior editor and contributor to SikhiWiki, you have authority to decide which way to go and I will support you either way. We cannot have half baked articles that are critical about non-Sikhs without solid proof and good reason - both of these things appear to be lacking here.
+Trained as a physician, most of us know him in his avatar as a man of medicine – psychiatrist, public health policy expert, Department Head at the All India Institute of Medical Sciences (AIIMS), Delhi, and Director of the Post Graduate Institute (PGI), Chandigarh. He also found time to serve in East Africa as advisor to the World Health Organization.
-If you feel that we can remove the negative aspects from the text then please keep the page otherwise mark it for deletion and I shall take care of it. Perhaps we can visit this later when we are better equipped with real facts. The text seems to have come from here - http://www.sikhspectrum.com/112004/swami.htm .
+But we don't always connect Dr J.S. Neki, the medical man, with Neki, the award winning poet. Few of us know that his first published poem - in praise of Guru Gobind Singh Ji written in Braj Basha – appeared in the Khalsa Samachar way back in 1937, when he was barely twelve years old. Awarded the Sahitya Akademi award in 1978 for his work: "Karuna Di Chhuh Ton Magron", he has over a dozen published collections of poetry, beginning with: “Asle to Ohle Tak” in 1955 through the ground breaking autobiographical: "Koi Naon Na Jane Mera" in 2000.
-The third option is to mark the article as needing attention and then we can revisit it at a later date. Please let me know how you feel about this. Kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 00:49, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
+====Gurbani Exegesis: ====
+He is also a distinguished scholar of Sikhi with a prolific output – in English and Punjabi. His works include the classic “Ardaas: Darshan Roop Te Abhiyas,” an exposition of Sikh congregational prayer; Sada Vigas, a profoundly original interpretation of Gurbani; Achetan di Leela, a psychological perspective on Gurmat; Divine Intimations, an English translation of [[Nitnem]] in verse; Prophet of Devotion, the life of Guru Angad; Pilgrimage to Hemkunt, a coffee table travelogue, Punjabi Haas Vilas, a book on Punjabi humour - and other works.
-== [[Innocent Sikh killed in Orakzai]] ==
+Dr. Neki is also an invaluable original source for anyone interested in Sikh history. Since his days as the President of the All India Sikh Students Federation, in 1949, to his present role as advisor to the Dharam Prachar Committee, SGPC, and General Secretary of the Bhai Vir Singh Sadan, New Delhi, he has been an active witness and participant in contemporary Sikh affairs, with a first-hand knowledge and acquaintance with the Who‟s Who of the Sikh world.
-Bhai sahib ji,
+Although I have known him over the years, our meetings have been intermittent and far between, usually in social settings that are not always conducive to the kind of systematic exploration of his thought and outlook that I wished to record.
+His recent presence in Columbus, Ohio, (USA) gave me that opportunity. Over a couple of extended private conversations and a Sikhi workshop organized by the local Sangat, we explored the entire range of Sikh experience, covering the gamut from the implication of being a Sikh, Sikh belief and practice, the current state of Sikh Institutions and the challenge of moral and ethical issues stemming from technology. In the process, I also got a glimpse of the defining events in his life.
+Dr Neki would rank high on my list of individuals that I would want to invite home for an evening of scintillating conversation. He has a certain gravitas about him (not surprising in one devoted to literary and scholarly pursuits), but wears it lightly. He can expound on abstruse philosophical concepts, but always with a touch of humour and with an open mind. He is a raconteur extraordinaire, and can hold you spell-bound with stories and anecdotes; or have you in peals of laughter with jokes – all used with great effect to put his point across.
+====Porous Boundaries:====
+Jaswant Singh Neki became the first “born Sikh” in his family in 1925. Religious boundaries between Hindu and Sikh were rather porous then, unlike the hardened walls that we witness today. It was not uncommon for Punjabi families to straddle what can be termed “mixed identities.” So it was with Dr Neki‟s family.
+“Expect the Unexpected” would be an apt header for any narration of Dr Neki‟s life. Hearing him recount the sheer number of coincidences – or synchronicities, if you will – that have shaped the course of his life is nothing short of miraculous. I share a few of them, not so much to chronicle his life but to view these events from a Sikh perspective.
+The partition of India in 1947 found the young Jaswant Singh - then a medical student in Lahore – down and out in Amritsar where he had made his way. Cut off from family, homeless and penniless, he faced an uncertain future.
+A series of baffling synchronicities saw him through.
+First, a generous landlord, moved by his plight, offers him a room - rent to be paid when able. Just then, he chances upon the old canteen manager from Lahore, now a food stall owner in Amritsar. Free meals become available.
+But most remarkably, a windfall from the most unexpected – and unknown – source solves Jaswant Singh‟s money problem, at least temporarily, enabling him to complete his medical education.
+Wandering aimlessly around town one evening, concerned about money, he heard a voice summon him – out of the blue. It was an old Sikh, a total stranger, who approached him with a proposition: “I have two thousand rupees on me. Can I entrust them to you for safekeeping?” he asked. “No,” Jaswant Singh responded, adding, “I am in desperate need and will be tempted to use the money.”
+The old Sikh insisted, “and isn't that what money is for – to spend?”
+Overcome by the moment, an immensely relieved Jaswant Singh took the money, but failed to ask about the old man‟s identity or whereabouts, or where he could return it.
+Now fast-forward to about a year later. Dr Neki, now a junior house physician, finds himself the beneficiary of a retroactive pay raise, with the arrears to be paid in a lump sum. His share: a princely two thousand and ten rupees!
+Happy at the windfall, he plans to dine out. No sooner does he step outside, that the same voice – the one that had summoned him a year ago – rang in his ears. It was the old Sikh again, back to claim his money.
+Sometime later, Dr Neki found himself in a similar predicament – yet, again. Now a Demonstrator at Christian Medical College, Ludhiana, he had a run in with the Principal
+over a day‟s personal leave that he needed to attend to an ailing grandmother. The Principal‟s intransigence led him to resign in a fit of anger.
+====A Mystical Encounter: ====
+Jobless again, he found himself wandering aimlessly – on the streets of Ludhiana this time - regretting his hasty decision. Sure enough, he had another inexplicable encounter.
+As he walked, an old man, a Sikh, who was selling his wares on the street, waved to him, saying, “Don't worry about your job; you have three offers coming.” Dr Neki, needless to say, was incredulous.
+No sooner did he arrive home than he found two job offers waiting for him. One was from an old class mate, an industrialist, looking for a medical officer to run a Clinic for his workers. The other was from S. Hukam Singh, the erstwhile Speaker of Parliament, offering him an editorial position on his newly founded Weekly: ‘The Spokesman’.
+What, I asked Dr Neki, was his reaction? He turned to me with a smile and said, “The old man had made three offers; where is the third, I thought?” The third offer arrived the same night, via a telegram from the Medical College, Amritsar.
+His marriage to the daughter of his Professor at Medical School, his appointment as PGI Director and assignment as Consultant to the WHO – all followed a similar fortuitous pattern.
+Dr Neki shared these - and other – events from his life to illustrate the point we happened to be discussing from Malcolm Gladwell's book, The Outliers, that successful and accomplished individuals are not propelled by genius and talent alone; they also rise on a tide of advantages, “some deserved, some not, some earned, some just plain lucky.”
+Dr Neki described the “lucky breaks” in his life - in Gurmat parlance - as '''Nadar''', or God‟s Grace. “Rabb aap aaya si” (God came Himself) he said.
+====Grace Abounding: ====
+Ascribing success and accomplishment to '''Nadar''' may be the humility of a Sikh, but surely, '''Nadar''' shines randomly on all of us. Why, then, do some of us appear to connect better with the flow of '''Nadar'''? Why do these coincidences – synchronicities – appear more pronounced in some lives than others?
+While I don't have the answer, I can offer a tentative explanation. The title of Dr Neki‟s translation of the Nitnem (Divine Intimations) offers a clue. These are sure signs of the Divine working in our everyday, mundane lives.
+While Nadar may open doors, and talent may provide the raw material, it takes hard work, discipline, persistence and perseverance to run leading medical institutions with distinction, stay actively engaged in Sikh affairs, and turn out literary and scholarly output of a high order over a long period of time.
-Thanks for posting this sad news by such barbaric and heartless people. What is surprising is the line ''"A letter, found with the body, warned his relatives and other Sikh locals against disclosing the case to the media"'' which shows the intimidation which is being showers on these innocent people of the region. These evil terrorist thugs  will have to pay for their heinous crimes here or in the next world; preferably here.
+There is no room for idlers in Sikhi. Honest effort (udyam) is foundational to a Sikh's life and I got a glimpse of this in observing Dr Neki's punishing schedule in Columbus, OH, even when on a holiday – he was up at 2 AM, did his Nitnem and then settled down to writing for the rest of the day, yet greeting intrusions like mine with cheer.
-I am sure this type of situation has been faced by many Sikhs before - and the plight of Santa Singh mentioned in 'Freedom at Midnight' has been and is being repeated again and again - the fight between good and evil is almost as old as humanity.
+It was obvious that the discipline and structure had been cultivated and honed over a lifetime.
-Most grateful to you bring us the latest on the situation in Pakistan relating to Sikhs - be it good, bad or indifferent - although the news is sad, it is better to know than to live in ignorance. Kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 21:12, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
+Dr Neki's eclectic and holistic approach to Sikh scholarship was shaped early on by the influence of his grandfather, a man of learning with an abiding interest in Holy Gurbani, and later, in Amritsar, by iconic figures of Sikh scholarship - Professor Sahib Singh, Bhai Jodh Singh and Principal Teja Singh, with whom he had regular contact.
-== A need for a policy in naming - Shri, Siri shree ==
+An incident Dr Neki narrated that involved these three stalwarts is worth narrating because it highlights the mutual respect and camaraderie that they shared, but also because they left a lasting impression on Dr Neki that influences his thinking ever since.
+Professor Sahib Singh had been invited to preside over an event organized by the AISSF. Sahib Singh demurred, explaining that he was pressed for time. He was then completing his seminal work on Gurbani Vyakaran (grammar) “A lot of what he said about Vyakaran went right over my head,” Dr Neki told me with a laugh.
+But Sahib Singh suggested Bhai Jodh Singh as an alternative, “Bhai Jodh Singh noon kyon nahin puchda?” (Why done you ask Bhai Jodh Singh?) Bhai Jodh Singh, it turned out, had a prior commitment and suggested Sahib Singh instead, “Sahib Singh hora noon kyon nahin puchda?” (Why done you ask Sahib Singh?)
-Bhai sahib,
+When told that Sahib Singh could not make it, he solicited Bhai Jodh Singh view about the importance of grammar in understanding Gurbani. Bhai Jodh Singh responded with a "chicken and egg" question of his own, “kaka, mainu eh das, grammar pehlon aayi see keh language?” (Son, tell me this, what came first - grammar or language?)
-Good idea; we will need to draft a policy on naming and include it somewhere where newcomers can see readily. I am sure Wikipedia have a policy on these things but we may need to modify it for our needs. I will try and get to the bottom of this soon. In the meantime we have a template of the message which we can put on the user talk page and which can be enhance as we move forward.
+====Experiencing The Divinity: ====
-<blockquote>
+Professor Teja Singh agreed to preside over the event. His response to the grammar and language question is a gem - in my opinion. Conceding that both Sahib Singh and Jodh Singh were more learned than he, Teja Singh agreed that both grammar and meaning (language) were important, but the true import of Gurbani rested on personal experience as well. “Mere NaloN siyaneh neh, par anubhav zaruri hai.” (They are more wiser than me, but "anubhav" (intuition) is necessary) That alone will lead to the Transcendent.
-<small>A very warm welcome from '''SikhiWiki''' and many thanks for your contributions so far. Please note that adding extra superlatives like Shri or ji or Maharaj, etc to the names of the [[Sikh Gurus]] and other Sikh sacred words on this website presents a problem with the Wiki system. When one adds these to existing articles, it can make the page unworkable and may break its link to other pages and images in the system. Please do not add such extra words to existing articles. <br>
-Also, we need to keep the names simple so that newcomers can learn them more quickly and it is easier when searches are carried out on the system. It is easier to find [[Guru Nanak]] instead of [[Guru Nanak|Maharaj Shri Guru Nanak Dev ji]] or was it [[Guru Nanak|Shri Guru Nanak Dev ji]] or [[Guru Nanak|Siri Guru Nanak Dev]] or was it [[Guru Nanak|Maharaj Guru Nanak ji]] or [[Guru Nanak|Guru Nanak Dev ji]], etc. <br>
+In speaking of a Sikh's engagement with the Guru Granth Sahib, Dr Neki sounded a similar note of caution. There are multiple senses in Gurbani, and we can get caught up in the literal or allegorical but miss the anagogical. The mode of communication that the Guru‟s have employed, Poetry, is not meant to be informational only - but transformational as well. Poetry is letting the WORD be heard beyond the literal meaning of the textual words.
-We should all have the utmost respect for our Gurus in our hearts and our minds; by just adding more and more words of honour does not necessarily mean that we will have even more respect for them. We should all show the best respect for our Gurus by following their [[Gurbani]] in your own hearts and in your lives.  <br>
+Gurbani must not just be read and understood but “ingested”, which involves assimilation and absorption.
+It is this natural amalgamation of science and poetry, of combining metaphor and analogy – of multiple senses and ways of looking at Reality – that is so visible in Dr Neki's work, and gives it a beauty and transcendence that can be transporting. An example from Sada Vigas comes to mind.
-Sorry to have to bring this policy of SikhiWiki to your attention on your first visit as a contributor; please do not let this deter you. I hope you will keep visiting this website and that you will help us enhance it by checking it, amending it, by adding to it, by discussing issues on the discussion pages, etc. Please feel free to add to or amend any of the topics that you have knowledge about. Don't worry about making mistakes, as these can be easily corrected.</small>
+====Link with the Spirit:====
-</blockquote>
+In an essay on the different dimensions of transcendence (Paramatma Da Deedar), Dr Neki uses the reproductive process as an illustration of transcending oneself (Haumai) in an exquisitely poetic way: the metaphor of a delirious lover used for the male sperm; its wiggling tail as a sign of its delight in finding the beloved female egg, and in the ultimate loss of a separate sense of self that results from the union.
-Many thanks again and kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 06:50, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
+While such a fruitful combination of the scientific and poetic outlook within an individual - like Dr Neki - may be deemed '''Nadar''', it is nonetheless, an attitude that one needs to consciously cultivate.
-== Work Load ==
+This fusion of science and poetry is a necessary framework to understand Sikhi in our current context. The two are not quite as apart as we have been led to believe. I found the following quote from the Scientific Activist very apt: “A scientist is an empirical poet and a poet is a scientist of more imaginative and creative hypotheses.” A Sikh's life must be at once musical, mathematically precise and poetic.
-Sir, ssa ji, getting less time for net due to work load. Thnx
+My purpose in capturing and recording these conversations goes beyond a personal desire to share vignettes from the life of a multi faceted personality and a much admired role model.
-== Courage: Does it need support from a drug? ==
+Dr Neki is an important literary figure in his own right and a living link to many iconic figures in our recent history as well as an active participant in shaping our community.
-Bhai sahib ji,
+There is a compelling need to maintain that link to our past by cultivating the habit of recording, documenting and archiving – of not neglecting – individuals like Dr Jaswant Singh Neki while they are still in our midst.
+I have attempted to capture a bit of oral history which I believe is just as significant as the written tradition in keeping our past alive. These recordings are bits and bytes of our larger history.
-Many thanks for the links; I was surprised about the violence in relation to Rahim Singh; I, wrongly assumed that this saga had been resolved - The politics in Punjab is beyond my comprehension.
+==Third Killer Performance==
+Bir Khalsa Group Third Killer Group. Sajid Comment that now he believe that KHalsa have power to stand before lakhs.
-Turning to the point about [[Bhang]], I agree that the article appears to give its use an unjustified semi-positive image and that this could project the wrong message. Clearly, Gurbani has spoken against its use and despite the Nihang claim that this helps them in battle, its use in peace time is clearly a blatant violation of Gurmat (not that it would be justified in war time either).
+http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuYxeE8XKrw
-I will tackle this in the near future as the message of Gurbani is very clear on both fronts - regarding the source of courage for a Sikh ready to enter battle at any time and the blatant misuse of such a harmful substance. There is no reason why a Sikh of the Guru should indulge in such a gut-less habit of taking intoxication to operate on the path of righteousness.
+== Nadar, universe and other things ==
-I hope this is the track that you were pointing towards; please let me know if I have "read" the pointers correctly. As always, many thanks and may the Lord bless you, your family and assist you all every second of your life. Love to you all, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 20:13, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
+Bhai Sahib ji
-== Thanks for the link/ Sikh history ==
+It was amazing how "Good luck" appears from nowhere when it is most needed as it did for Dr Neki! I am glad you enjoyed this article about him.
-Thanks Bhai sahib ji for the link - that indeed is very good news. May the Lord drive some sense into these lunatic talibanis.
+No, I am not familiar with the Burningman event but know a little about the "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" and also the "Dr Who" series which was a popular old science fiction TV serial which I used to watch when at school & college.
-'''Partition 1947:''' Appears that there is a category called: [[:Category:Partition 1947]]. I have files those two article under this category. I have seen a lot of activity in this field lately so hopefully someone is collecting all the information. However, Bhai sahib I don't think that any of this information is going to make mankind any wiser. Man has been engaged in so many wars; so much human blood has seeped into the Earth through man to man combat still we carry on. Reading about all the previous wars, we still have the same attitude; real love for all of mankind just does not enter into our hearts! When will we evolve onto a high plane?
+Preceding [[Diwali]] there is an event where an effigy of "Ravan" is burnt in a huge bonfire (Diwali being a Hindu celebration of Rama defeating Ravan, rescuing Sita and returning home triumphantly); I recall this from my distant memory of events in Kenya when all our community religious events were celebrated together with all other members of the community; so we all, despite our different religions took part in every Sikh, Hindu and Muslim celebrations.
-'''Sikh history:''' I agree that films about Sikh history would help a better understanding but unfortunately this is going to take sometime; we need a bold director and producer with a vision. Imagine what an impact a film about the life of Guru Gobind Singh would have on the world! I am sure the right person will come! I hope it is in my lifetime! Would love to see the movie! Kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 02:13, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
+We have not watched the film "My Name is Khan" but the custom of burning the corpse outside in the open covered with wood is still common place in India. I have seen clips of the movie and understand the general message that it is trying to convey! It is normally just a few in the community who spoil it for the rest!
-== Cleric issues anti-terror fatwa ==
+As you say, not too many Westerns will see this movie and so many of the shortcomings will not be noticed even by ethnic American! Also, due to the huge size of the USA, not many will understand the significance of these landmarks and their exact locations.
-Bhai sahib ji,
+I did visited San Francisco and CA in 1995; I found the folks there generally appeared to be in a "big rush" all the time! I hope that has changed now!
-'''Excellent link:''' - It is refreshing to see someone from mainstream Muslim faith stand for the true face of their religion; how great would it be if more Muslim leaders did the same. Then the fascist would clearly know that they were acting against their own faith.
+Khan is a great actor and its is not surprising that you found his performance "remarkable". I find that he can very easily convince the audience about any role that he chooses to perform - a huge natural talent; Kajol too is our favourite as well - she always appears to be a happy and positive personality! An excellent actress!
-'''User name:''' It is not always easy but as you know, most newcomers would have a Sikh name and when you see non-sense letters like jsdds or ludiid or asdasd, etc then its time to press X. Also, Bhai sahib, I am sometimes aggressive with the X as if it is a genuine user, he or she would email and object to the ban. But I know that a few of these will still get through. Utter madness trying to advertise their silly product on this site! The word 'Ahmadsfryez' did not make any sense - I hope we made the right choice!
+No, please - thanks for sharing - it is the mundane things that makes life interesting and meaningful.  As you say, just like Mr Khan, many people in life can only see - black or white - in so doing they miss out on the full colours of the rainbow!
-'''Snow:''' Gosh we had the most severe winter for 30 years I think - I have never seen so much snow in the UK. Its OK for a few days when it is fresh; soon it becomes a bind, especially when it turns into slippery ice! Enjoy it while it lasts!
+'''File:Sant-Jarnail-aw.jpg''' - I hope I have removed the correct unwanted images.  Many thanks, Raab Rakha, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 09:30, 20 September 2010 (EDT)
+----
-'''Violence:''' I think there is a tendency these days to turn to anger and violence at the first opportunity; people have very short fuses. The lessons of tolerance and variability of views is not been learnt. Your story in the final paragraph of the message highlights this so admirably; making a mountain out of a molehill! This culture of blame has become a wall between better understanding of the different communities; suspicion and mistrust grow while dialogue and cohesion fall away; a sure recipe for communal eruption.
+Bhai sahib ji,
-Guru mahar karan, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 23:03, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
+Please review the article on [[Nadar]]. I hope you will like it. Please feel free to amend as you regard necessary. Kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 15:43, 21 September 2010 (EDT)
-== Copyright material ==
+== Gurdwara Pathar sahib ==
 Bhai sahib ji,
-You are right; we cannot copy complete articles unless it is a site like wikipedia which like Sikhiwiki operates a "Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License". If the site does not operate CCA license then we can only quote bits from the site for review purposes or under the fair-use rules.
+Sat Sri Akaal ji, Many thanks for your message and the link to what looks like a very comprehensive article; many thanks again - I will read it over the weekend.
-Most Wikis operate a free or public domain policy and so we can copy from those sites - it is common and a good habit to acknowledge the source of any article when it is copied in total. I don't think any of these free sites like wikipedia would complain.
+I hope you had a great time in the Bay Area and that all is well with bhabiji's mother; obviously a popular area with a bonus of a few Sikhi connections as well.
-When copying Sikhi articles please make sure they comply with Gurbani. I have found a few articles where they completely ignore the principles outlined in Gurbani. This is a very marginal situation but I only mention it here for completeness; I have used wikis for some of my articles here - so please carry on.
+I have not looked at the directions given in the above article; I believe that sarbjeet may have started the article and as he lives in J & K it may be he has done a 'cut and paste' from some other article. The name should not be in all capitals; this is probably due to the 'cut & paste' exercise used! At some point I hope I will get a 'software robot' which I think is called a 'bot' to do these tidying-up exercises; I need to sharpen up my programming skills!
-Regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 02:31, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
+Bhai sahib, Leh does have an airport according to http://www.skyscanner.net/airports/ixl/leh-airport.html. Also again with the help of the miracle of Google search, it appears that flights from Delhi to Leh do exist as per the link: http://www.mapsofindia.com/flight-schedule/delhi-leh.html
-== ImpartialReviewOnlineSportsBooksCasino  barred ==
+Delhi to Jammu also has flights as displayed here - http://www.mapsofindia.com/flight-schedule/delhi-jammu.html
-Bhai sahib ji,
+I believe that Sarbjeet is more likely to know - I will send him a message if required after I have had a look at the article myself later.
-The above has been barred as per your message - clearly an unsuitable name. Many thanks and kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 11:58, 6 March 2010 (UTC)
+'''taposthan''' - 'tapo' - meditate/endurance/penance/worship; and  'asthan' - place/building/shrine. So the place where meditation/worship took place - place of worship/meditation
-== Seeking advise ==
+I hope that help. Kind regards and may the Lord's blessings be with you always, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 09:59, 2 October 2010 (EDT)
+----
+Further and thanks to your link, I have written this article - [[On this platter are these things]] based on the editorial piece in the pdf file. I have changed the initial setting from 2004 to 2008 as this is likely to still be in the minds of readers! Regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 21:12, 2 October 2010 (EDT)
-Bhai Sahib ji,
+== [[Never beg from others]] and more ==
+{{p|File:Golden-temple-and-ten-sikh-gurus.jpg|picture similar to the one in the video}}
-You guessed right twice - First, I had just seen the second part of the message and missed the first bit. Sorry about that. And secondly, about the new active contributors; it great to see much more contribution taking place. I hope we keep getting this help as it will enhance the site and hopefully encourage more people to read  and learn about the peaceful message of the Gurus.
+Bhai sahib ji,
-I have read the article now and I think we should include it as it highlights the false propaganda that these groups use. Unfortunately these groups do exist and they continue to promote their warped messages and it is best to know about them so that we can tackle them head-on.
+Many thanks for the work on the above article; I have read it and it sounds great. You have done an excellent job as always. You are also correct about the sadhus - you don't find them in Gurdwaras.
-As you say, if we know about them we can ask the authorities to deal with them; if they remain unknown there will be less action against them.
+Because these days they are after money and food is normally just an excuse to get "their foot in" - once you start entertaining them, they will find your weaknesses and then the "extraction" mode kicks in.
-Also, it is amazing when these groups say things like: ''"The Seal of Messengers, Prophet Mohammad (saw) said that at the lowest level of Paradise each person will have up to 10,000 servants!"'' It appears that in God's Paradise there is discrimination - 10,000 servants for one person! Their "God" will make "their Muslim saint" who was blown up by his own bomb have 10,000 servants! Where is fairness in this understanding?
+Unfortunately, a lot of Sikh "priests" and "gyanis" have also joined the act and go door to door asking for donations for fictitious events like "eye camp" or langar or mass weddings of poor brides, etc in India. Hopefully, the article will give some 'Gurbani base' to challenge these folks!
-And this second line is even more stupid: "Remember, on the Day of Judgment, no religion will be accepted from Allah except Islam." Why? Does that mean that before 700AD before there were any Muslims, for millions of years everyone went to hell! Utter rubbish!
+Bhai sahib, the elders were referred to as the "presidents" of the jatha (group) in the video and the picture is of the Golden Temple being blessed by the 10 Sikh Gurus; The Guru Granth Sahib is symbolically in the temple and so is not included at the top although I have seen pictures with the holy granth in a second row at the top.
-Unfortunately, I have seen such trash before but it is best to tackle it rather than ignore it. In the same article, under a separate section, we should counter some of the points that they make against Sikhi - then it will be balanced.  Thanks for bringing it to me attention; I will work on it soon. Kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 18:05, 6 March 2010 (UTC)
+The picture presented was like the one I have copied here in this reply; I will try and see if I can get a print locally - I will keep you posted on how I get on in my search for a picture similar to one seen in the video. Many thanks again. Raab Rakha, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 00:54, 5 October 2010 (EDT)
-==Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh==
+==They want to Probe Nanak a Muslim==
-* It's nice to see that you are contributing in article and correcting mistakes.
+Nanak was a Muslim, but was Muslim by heart acc. to Nanak Muslim is Imaan wala which means Honest. Nanak was Honest about his faith. he was not some circumcized person who believe god in mecca only and believe in ritual and rites.
-* You are very right he was Bhagat Prahlada acc. to Guru Granth Sahib and Dasam Granth too.
-* I live in India From where you belong?
-* The pic which you uploaded is related to Hindu Mythology. Hindu people used to make such images which are baseless(even acc. to their own granths). I want to give you example of Chandi in Dasam Granth:
-* Hindus make pic of Chandi, but Guru Gobind Singh clearly mentioned that Chandi is Abhek(no form).
+Guru Granth Sahib's Subject is WHAT IS THAT ONE? This is not at all concept in Quran. Quran do have attributes of God but the explanation of Spirituality is explained in Gurmat only. What is god, what it does, how it does, hwhat is spirit, what spirit makes what it is make of what spirit have to do to merge in supreme commans etc. whole spirituals topics are concerned with Sikhism or you can say directly explained in easy language by Gurus.
-* Hindus made pic of Kheer Ganga on which vishnu is sitting on some platform but Gurmat is totally opposite to it.
-Even photos of Gurus which you have seen keep no significance, its just an imagination.
+many religion try to explain something in stories, but people became followers of story rather then following the concept.
-The pic you have uploaded gives impression that Narsingha was some Man-lion like Lion man of the Hohlenstein Stadel who killed Deamon king, quite illogical pic and imagination of painter is good but spiritual knowledge of Painter is not too good.
+) Nanak turned Mecca, it does not mean Nanak revolved whole mecca city, MECCA is attributed as MIND in Guru Granth Shaib. Mecca Turn means Their Mind turns, their wrong thinkings about god turns. Similarly namdev turned Temple means Namdev's Mind turned toward God. NANAK explanation of Allah turned MECCA of Muslims(not outer mecca). Now this thing became popularize and people started thinking that NANAk turned whole Mecca city with his feet.
-Do you think a Sikh websites should have such images which not satisfies gurmat?? ([[User:Thegreateditor|Editor]] 11:24, 9 March 2010 (UTC))
+) Nanak did Vichar with all high class people, he very less did parchar in normal people, reason being, common people will not able to listen against rituals, shiva vishnu etc. So you could check his bani which contains discussion with high grade people. The terminology which are used in Bani are basically a scholarly terminology, normal people not able to understand it DIRECTLY, ya if they have read meanings in their understandable form only they could undertsand message.
-==Continuing==
+Why Nanak did vichar with high class people? because if they willcome on way the other class people who are actually followers of preachings by high class people also started way of God. Guru Angad sahib was one who started preaching in common people.
-If i will make picture Guru Gobind Singh sitting on SNAKE, will it be accepted? if i will make picture Muhammad in Punjab, Jesus in Delhi having party with Sher Shah Suri! zorothustra with william cambell??i think these ideas are amazing but out of context. I just wanted to mention that Imagination behind that image is illogical(acc. to gurmat). I am planning for making a logical image of it which must show something. It would be appreciated if you make image of those 5 great messages which you gave after reading Prahlad story.
-Guru ji mentioned this tale because it is related to Gurmat.
+So the discussion was between technical people not like these people who are just studying history without studying what Gurmat says , what islam says,w hwre is the differences.
-''I suppose there are Sikhs who think that everyone should wear only white, eat only food cooked by other Sikhs and not associate with anyone other than a Sikh. ''
+So better to study gurbani ourselves, to improve ourselves, to find god ourselves, to merge innaam ourselves. NANAK will not come again to teach all this thats why he left BANI, to study the way, to kill wrong intentions to kill Mind and heart's illusion and way to God.
-Just want to contribute some Gurmat Views, Sikh = Khalsa does not have any dress code. You can be a very good khalsa in Jeans/shirt but Khalsa Fauj(fauj=army) need dress. An Indian does not required special dress but Indian army requires the same. The Khande Bate di Pahul is way to change Bana and to join into Khalsa Fauj. Food should be hygienic and cooked in hygienic way by cook and he/she can be any.
+These people who wrote such articles haven't studied islam properly, don't know why they touch other religions.
+Only In Sikh scriptures HINDU and ISLAM dharma is opened fully and their do and don'ts are better explained, which if preached in world then people will gonna die OH WHAT THIS GRANTH IS SAYING, this is not Good granth. So these are just fake articles.
-''There might be some who think Sikhs should study only study the Guru Granth Sahib and avoid hanging pictures of Guru Nanak on the wall (any pictures at all).''
+Check more such things:
-Sikh believe in study, after studying Guru Granth Sahib he can continue with Dasam, Sarabloh, vedas, Quran, Bible, etc, if he want to. What is need of hanging picture of Guru Nanak? it is better to hang messages from holy books which a person read daily and walk on it
+* http://aaiil.org/urdu/books/others/aaiil/hazratbabananakkamazhab/hazratbabananakkamazhab.shtml
+* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2aEgRhqmP0 <--------- Video from Ahmeddiya, claiming nanak muslim
+* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiMixnfMuOc <-------- This BR Imran clearly said that NANAk never went to mecca.
+Take Care
+([[User:Hpt lucky|Lucky]] 18:00, 7 October 2010 (EDT))
-''These imaginary Sikhs might not allow televisions in their homes and would prefer to never see liquor and tobbaco being sold in a store.''
+== [[Lala Lajpat Rai]] ==
-Those might be foolish people.
+Bhai Sahib ji, Sat Sri Akaal,
-''They would certainly object to the picture of Nara Singha or maybe any picture being on any page, but what I love, among many other things about Indian culture and Panjabi culture in particular is the love of colour it 'rangs' a chord in my heart. ''
+Many thanks for your message. I have done a quick almost word by word translation - Please see if it makes sense?
-Nar Singha image is illogical. Other images seems to logical but some images like GUru Nanak with beads as we know all Gurus rejected it, guru nanak flying in air etc etc. Every thing has a logic, if you will potray me with Abrahim Lincon, it will be fun but quite illogical concept.
+ਸਾਈਮਨ  ਕਮੀਸ਼ਨ           ਦੇ     ਲਹੌਰ     ਪ੝ੱਜਣ   ਤੋਂ     ਪੰਜ  ਹਫਤੇ  ਪਿਛੋਂ      ਹੀ, <br>
+Simon   Commission's  day  Lahore  pujan  toh panj  hafta  pecho hee,<br>
+Just five weeks after the Simon commission got to Lahore,<br><br>
-So NarSIngha acc. to Gurmat is different, and i think you know all that..
+ਲਾਲਾ   ਲਾਜਪਤ   ਰਾਇ   ਦੀ,   ਦਿਲ  ਦੀ   ਧਾਪ    ਬੰਦ      ਹੋਣ      ਕਾਰਣ,<br>
+Lala  Lajput   Rai  dee,  delh  de  dhap baand  hoohr  kharan<br>
+due to Lala Lajput Rais's heart beat stopping he<br><br>
-''I think I have seen many paintings that included Hindu imagery in the paintings of the Gurdwara of Baba Atal - no one has whitewashed them though they might have been painted during the time of the mahants, where ever they were they surprised me - my menory is not what it used to be.''
+ਮ੝ਰਿਤੂ            ਹੋ     ਗਈ     ਤਾਂ    ਦੋ    ਹਿੰਦੂ      ਕੰਗ੝ਰੈਸੀ        ਡਾਕਟਰਾਂ <br>
+mhereetu   hoe gahee tah  dho Hindu   congressi doctora <br>
+died and two Congress doctors<br><br>
-Very right thats why our Singhs are not able to preach sikhi, because we are materialistic rather than spiritual. Ranjit Singh fixed Gold over amritsar and ragis sing shabad in gold covered gurdwara sahib but their is  NO VEECHAR(thoughts) on gurbani. Without Veechar one cannot become a sikh. Quote of Gur Granth -> (Gur Sikhya Gur Shabad Vichar)
+ਨੇ     ਇਹ  ਸਰਟੀਫਿਕੇਟ  ਦੇ    ਦਿਤਾ   ਕਿ  ਇਸ   ਮ੝ਰਿਤੂ <br>
+nah eeh  certificate  dah detah  ka eesh  mretu<br>
+produced a certificate showing that his death<br><br>
-__________
+ਕਰਤਰੀ    ਕਾਰਣ (Efficient cause) ਉਹ    ਡਾਂਗਾਂ     ਦੀਆਂ    ਸੱਟਾਂ  ਹੀ   ਹਨ, <br>
+kartatee  karran                          ooho  thanga deeya sata hee han<br>
+was caused due to injuries caused by being hit by batons<br><br>
-One thing is right it Enriches the page, and for that i am thinking of not removing it but to explain the image. i was thinking of affixing that image prior but then i thought of making new which shows Sikh philosphy. For that i am going in deep of whole stories tale(in light of gurmat) .
+ਜਿਹੜੀਆਂ ਕਿ  ਛੇ   ਹਫਤੇ  ਪਹਿਲਾਂ ਉਨਾਂ   ਨੂੰ     ਵੱਜੀਆਂ  ਸਨ |<br>
+jahreea  ka cha hafta phala  oona noo  vajeea sahn<br>
+which had happened 6 weeks before his death. <br><br>
-Hope you understand. I am from Haryana. ([[User:Thegreateditor|Editor]] 17:06, 9 March 2010 (UTC))
+ਇਸ ਤਰਾਂ    ਆਕਾਸ਼ ਬੇਲ    ਦੇ     ਫ੝ੱਲਾਂ   ਨੂੰ   ਫਲ   ਲਗੇ  ਤੇ ਬਾਂਝ  ਵਿਧਵਾ   ਦੇ    ਸਪ੝ਤ੝ਰ    ਦਾ |<br>
+ees tarha  aakas baal dha phula noo phal laga ta baaj veedva dha saputar  da<br>
+In this way, the sky bound climber's flowers bore fruit, and the sterile widow's son<br><br>
-==Reply Again==
+ਵਿਵਾਹ   ਸੰਸਕਾਰ   ਹੋਇਆ    ਇਕ  ਕੰਗ੝ਰੈਸੀ         ਦੇਵੀ ਨੇਤਾ, <br>
-I totally agree with those 5 massages and this what we call Gurmat. I am not saying to paint them i am saying to put them in image through photoshop. Don't know much about Islam and Christianity, jus know in brief.
+veevha sanskar hooeya ek    kangrasee davee nAta,<br>
+wedding ceremony took place. At this time, one Congress lady <br><br>
-Sir User: Lucky is staying in Chandigarh, and i think you should contact him, he can better guide you about Chandigarh and Amritsar. I am messaging him he will contact you on sikhiwiki. About J & K user: Sarabjit is there. When will you come to india?
+ਇਸ   ਸਮੇਂ      ਲਹੌਰ     ਪਧਾਰੀ    ਤੇ  ਇਹ    ਬਿਆਨ    ਅਖਬਾਰਾਂ   ਵਿਚ  ਛਪਵਾ  ਕੇ, <br>
+ees samha Lahore pdharee ta  eeha  beyhan ekhabara vich chpva ka,  <br>
+came to Lahore and reported & got printed this in the newspaper and <br><br>
-Just giving you a brief info, From Chandigarh you can take a Volvo, cost jus rs 250 per person then from Amritsar bus stop, you can take rickshaw, just for Rs 20, you can stay in Guru Arjun Dev Niwas in Golden temple complex, as they have arrangement for foreign tourists. you can take food in Gurdwara Kitchen or in hotels around complex. Then you can take deluxe bus from amritsar to j&k. I do not know nything about J & K. ([[User:Thegreateditor|Editor]] 12:57, 10 March 2010 (UTC))
+ਮ੝ੜਦੇ      ਪੈਰੀ     ਕਲਕੱਤੇ    ਚਲੇ    ਗਈ |<br>
+murdha   paree  Calcatta chlaa gaee<br>
+immediately left for Calcutta.<br><br>
-== Balanced Image and Guru-maa ==
+"ਲਾਲਾ ਜੀ  ਨੂੰ    ਦ੝ਸ਼ਟ  ਸਕਾਟ ਫਿਰੰਗੀ     ਨੇ   ਡਾਂਗਾਂ    ਮਾਰ   ਕੇ ਕਤਲ ਕਰ ਦਿੱਤਾ  ਹੈ |<br>
+Lala   ji   nuu duust skat   phergee na dhaga marg ka katl   kar deta  ha<br>
+''"Due to the evil foreigner Scot's beating, Lal ji has died of the injuries.''<br><br>
-Bhai Sahib ji,
-Thanks for both the messages.
+ਕੀ ਪੰਜਾਬ   ਦਾ ਮਰਦਊਪ੝ਣਾ    ਬਿਲਕ੝ਲ ਨਿਪ੝ੰਸਕ      ਬਣ  ਚ੝ੱਕਾ    ਹੈ? "<br>
-'''Image''' - can't understand the reason for the computer problem you had - I normally use the free version of Paint.net (and Gimp for more serious work) and I cannot recall any issues with the image file. I do sometimes have problem when I update images and do not save the file in the same format as the original - Sikhiwiki refuses to update the image unless the file extensions are the same. I am not sure if you actually got that far. Hopefully it is a passing phase and the system will behave with other image files.
+ke punjab de mardooprh  belkul  neepusak ban chuke ha? <br>
+''Is the pride (manhood) of Punjab completely finished?"''<br><br>
-I spotted the missing top of the halo but unfortunately did not spot the Guru leaning back! Correcting that is a slightly bigger challenge as that part of the image will need to be rotated. I noticed that the file is a jpg file - If it helps, would you like me to save this as a Gif file also?
-'''GuruMaa''' - Thanks for the addition; I listened to her at the 2004 Inter-faith gathering in Barcelona - She works across Hinduism and Sikhism when addressing her sangat; interesting approach and obviously covering an area which is not normally approached by many spiritual leaders. Useful information which I was not previously familiar with. Kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 21:40, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
+Kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 09:06, 11 October 2010 (EDT)
-== Link to wikipedia ==
+Bhai sahib ji, Many thanks for your kind words. Please feel free to put it on the article page. Thanks again and kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 19:00, 11 October 2010 (EDT)
-Bhai sahib ji
+== Photos of Bhagwan! ==
-Various "tools" are available both "official" and "home-made".
+Bhai Sahib ji, {{SSA}}
-'''Official:''' To link to any wikipedia article just put the word "wikipedia:" before the word in hyperlink double brackets:
+Thank you for a very interesting article highlighting a subtle (but not easily understood) aspect of human behaviour; although we realise God is everywhere, a picture seems to bring this to the forefront and crystallise the concept at that location. Nothing has changed apart from the appearance of an "imaginary" picture of God! Amazing how the human mind behaves and functions!
-<pre>
+Yes, generally Sikhs do not consume tobacco and so would rarely be caught displaying this hideous habit of "public spitting"
-ie:
-(1) To refer to the article Hindu at Wikipedia you would type [[Wikipedia:Hindu]].
-However this looks odd as the whole of the phrase will show in the text. See below:
-</pre>
-[[Wikipedia:Hindu]]
+Thanks also for the link to the miracle that unfolded in Chile this morning - luckily, we had good coverage via the BBC in this case. Kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 12:03, 13 October 2010 (EDT)
-<pre>
+== [[Gurdwara Nanaksar Sahib]] & visit to Amritsar ==
-(2) To overcome this you need to type this: [[Wikipedia:Hindu|Hindu]].
-This looks better as only the word Hindu or whatever you enter after the "|" will actually display - See below:
-</pre>
-[[Wikipedia:Hindu|Hindu]]
+Bhai sahib ji,
-<pre>
+Thanks for your messages. Unfortunately, the Notice board is not very helpful and appears more like an advert showing the name of the main sewadar (Baba Balvinder Singh, the 14th in the line of "Akali 96 Karori, )and the many titles that people hold and little else of much use. It may? be located in Chawni Nihang Singh, Bathinda District although I cannot locate this as a village so it may refer to something else. The full name of the Gurdwara is 'Gurdwara Nanaksar Sahib, Pehli Patshahi'. 'Pehli (first) Patshahi (king)' standing for the first Guru. The connection to the [[Buddha Dal]] is also given but no other details of the location.
-(3) Sikhiwiki has a shorthand for this rather long format (home-made remedy).
-Instead of: [[Wikipedia:Hindu|Hindu]] just type {{w|Hindu}}. This does that same this as (2)
-</pre>
-{{w|Hindu}}
-End of lesson 1- Do you need more? Regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 00:17, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
+'''President's visit''': I wonder how much of this story is true - it may just be something to bring anti-India propaganda later if he does not go! I agree it is exciting to think of the President going to the Golden Temple but I would not hold too much hope. The upside would be more education for the world about Sikhs, I agree totally. Let's hope this works out. Raab rakha & kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 14:15, 15 October 2010 (EDT)
-===Article of interest ===
+[http://www.sikhnet.com/news/michelle-reason-obamas-amritsar-visit There may be some truth in this story] unbelievable as it may seem! [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 17:16, 15 October 2010 (EDT)
-Bidar - Amazing article!  Similarities to Delhi 84 but without a Gandhi? It highlights the inherent wickedness of the local majority and their behaviour against the innocent Sikh students.
+== Appointment of Akal takhat jathedar ==
-Many thanks, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 00:52, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
-== Box ==
+{{p|File:MiriPiri-QueenVisit.jpg|Queen during her visit to the Golden Temple}}
+Bhai sahib ji,
-Bhai Sahib ji
+The requirement is simply to cover the head and I have seen many youngsters wear a baseball cap to the darbar hall and this is perfectly acceptable also woolly caps are often worn by ladies in addition to scarves, etc. I am sure considering that it is the president, a cap or any other such head covering like the ones mentioned by you will be accepted by the Sikhs leaders; the US Navy hat sounds like a great idea. [http://www.dailyindia.com/show/403564.php Obama wearing a cap for Golden Temple visit is no issue: SGPC]
-I have modified the box as it covered a large area to just a "banner" by using paint.net (free program). I think this will do for now. I will re-jig this later so that we can add something like <nowiki> {{no edits please}} </nowiki> to get the same result. However, I hope this will do for now.
+When the Queen, bless her soul, visited the Golden Temple (see picture) she wore her matching beautiful hat. Many leaders have visited this shrine to pay their respects to this shrine which is where the "message of Guru Nanak" was first honoured - this is what the shrine stands for. It is an honour for the Sikhs if one visits and the person also honours the deep and enlightening message of the Gurus. This is important and I hope the administrator in the USA will consider this carefully.
-I know your feeling regarding "training your spell-checker" - mine is still learning- but a great tool. We need a quick online grammar checker now! Many thanks, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 18:28, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
+I think to stop the visit for such a small thing is throwing mud into the face of the ideals of inter-faith dialogue. If we speak about high principles and wisdom than this is just a big blow to that; we are buckling due to common public perception based on a false foundation.
-== Baba Buddha ji ==
+'''Akal Takhat''' Unfortunately, the audio is in Punjabi but I am hoping to do an article on this as it was an eye-opener for me and I am sure you will be suitably alarmed to find out the realities surrounding the way the jathedar is elected and the minimum power that he '''really''' possess. More of this later.
-bhai sahib ji {{SSA}}
+<gallery caption="Picture Gallery" widths="250px" heights="250px" perrow="3">
+File:President obama.jpg|the US President
+File:President Obama with cap.jpg|President with US Marine Corps cap
+File:Obama-chicago-240mn0529101.jpg
+</gallery>
+[[File:Slim obama 1515209c.jpg]]
-Some of the old Punjabi history books are riddled with these types of saying and stories which really are not necessary these days. The gist of the matter is that Baba Buddha ji or Bhai Buddha ji displayed an inclination toward wisdom at an early age which the Guru recognised. The Guru obviously was very perceptive to the moral and spiritual state of a person and I am sure that Guru ji nicknamed him "Buddha ji" instead of calling him "Bura" which depending on the pronunciation can mean "bad" in Punjabi; I think the Guru would probably not call him "bura" in an event preferring to enhance people rather than denigrate them.
+Kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 14:20, 23 October 2010 (EDT)
-I do not have a book to hand at the moment but I will try and find some online source. A small start here - http://www.sacred-texts.com/skh/tsr1/tsr114.htm See if you can use any of this? Again it is in the "old style" and may not be suitable.
+== Indeed, such a sad state of affairs ==
-===Online Text===
+Bhai Sahib ji
-The Guru initiated the practice of singing hymns in the end of the night. A boy seven years of age used to come to listen and stand behind him. When the singing was over, he used quietly to ,depart. One day the Guru ordered his servants to detain the boy in order to discover the object of his continual attendance. He was accordingly brought before the Guru, who asked him, 'O boy, why comest thou so early in the morning to listen to hymns? This is the time of life for thee to eat, play, and sleep.' The boy replied, 'Sir, one day my mother bade me light the fire. When I put on the wood, I observed that the little sticks burned first and afterwards the big ones. From that me I have been afraid of early death. It is very doubtful whether we shall live to be old, and so I attend thy religious gatherings.' The Guru was much pleased on hearing this wisdom from the child's lips, and said he spoke like an old man (budha). On that occasion the Guru composed the following:--
-In the briny unfathomable ocean the fish did not recognize the net.[1]
+What a miserable state of affairs! Baba Farid is recognised by many communities for his deep reverence for God and for his recognition of the true message of Allah! It is sad that all these ignorant people can do is try and cause injury to the innocent people who understand the meaning of peace and love.
-Why did the very clever and beautiful fish have so much confidence?
-It was caught through its own doing; death cannot be averted,
-O my brethren; know that in like manner death hangeth over your heads.
-Man is like the fish upon which the net falleth unawares.
-The whole world is bound by death; without the Guru death cannot be destroyed.
-They who are imbued with the True One, and have abandoned worthless mammon, are saved.
-I am a sacrifice unto those who are found true at the gate of the True One.
-Death is like the hawk among the birds, or the huntsman with the noose in his hands.
-They whom the Guru preserved have been saved all others have been entrapped by the bait.
-They who possess not God's name shall be rejected no one will assist them.
-God is the truest of the true, and His place is the truest of the true.
-They who obey the True One meditate on Him in their hearts.
-Even the perverse who obtain divine knowledge under the Guru's instruction are pure.
-Make supplication to the true Guru to unite thee with the Friend.
-When man meeteth the Friend he obtaineth happiness, and the myrmidons of death poison themselves.
-[1. The worldly man does not remember death.]
+Obviously, these misguided thugs cannot see the path of truth being followed as their trade in corruption and slavery is ebbing away. The region has a serious deficit in morality and righteousness - many still wish to live in the middle-ages!
-{p. 135}
+Bhai sahib, many thanks again for highlighting this story; it good to be well informed although it is depressing to see humans behaving is such a lowly manner. Raab rakha, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 23:09, 25 October 2010 (EDT)
-I abide in the Name, and the Name abideth in my heart.
+----
-Without the Guru all is darkness; without the Word nothing can be known.
+Many thanks for the link; have left a comment at the news article site - hopefully it will get published -
-By the Guru's instruction light shineth, and man continueth to love the True One.
-Death entereth not where the soul's light is blended with God's.
-Thou, O God, art the Friend; Thou art wise; it is Thou who unitest men with Thee.
-Under the Guru's instruction, O man, praise Him who hath, no end or limit.
-Death entereth not where there is the incomparable Word of the Guru.
-By God's order all sentient beings were produced; by God's order they perform their functions.
-By God's order they are in the power of death; by God's order they are absorbed in the True One.
-Nanak, what pleaseth God shall happen; there is nothing whatever in the power of His creatures.[1]
-The boy to whom the above hymn was addressed was subsequently known as Bhai Budha on account of the complimentary expression of the Guru. He was held in such high estimation that he was commissioned to confer the tilaks or patches of Guruship on the first five successors of Guru Nanak.
+<span style="font-style:italic">"Baba Farid ji is also a revered Sikh Bhagat and I find it difficult to understand how any person who calls himself or herself “human” can do such a horrendous thing at the sacred shrine of such a holy man of God.<br><br>However, despite such inhuman behaviour, we need to remember what Baba ji has said in his bani:<br><br>“Fareed, answer evil with goodness; do not fill your mind with anger.” (bottom of page 1381 of Sri Guru Granth Sahib) quoted from: http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Bani_Baba_Farid_7<br><br>God will take care of these evil people. However, all the peoples of God need to unite against this devil called taliban; or al qaeda or whatever. We cannot let our small differences become a wedge that gives these men of terror a hold in society. God belongs to all and we all belong to Him! So please unite in our fight against “adharam” – unrighteous and “anti-Godly” acts by these terrorists."</span>
-===Ages===
+Hope the appointment with the dentist went well and that all the teeth are still intact! Kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 12:22, 27 October 2010 (EDT)
+----
+Bhai Sahib ji,
-The Guru was born in 1469 while Bhai Budha was born in 1506 - a difference of 37 years. In 1524, the Guru would have been 55 while Bhai Budha was 18 years old. We know that the Guru was based in Kartarpur in the latter part of his life; so this all seems to stack-up. Calling a person of 18, "Bhai Buddha ji" is possible as in rural India in the 1500s there was much respect for elders - so it is not a thing to worry about. However, calling a person of 8 or 9 "Bhai Buddha" does not seem possible and I would try and avoid putting this in the article. It may have started as a nickname instead of "Bura ji" and then developed to Bhai Buddha ji and then on to Baba Buddha ji.
+'''Dentist:''' As one grows older, this is always a fear - When you turn up at the dentist, the result could be leaving with one less tooth. My wife has some pain on one side of her jaw and I fear for the outcome when she too sees the dentist tomorrow!
-I think that the "Bhai Buddha" then changed to "Baba Buddha" during the time of the 6th Guru - Guru Hargobind.
+I hope one less tooth is not going to have any significant impact on your life. I know that my brother has lost a few and everyone left is now vital!
-Kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 21:15, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
+'''Article on Baba Farid:''' I have just [http://public.dawn.com/2010/10/26/saints-and-sinners.html?pid=1321 checked the article]  and yes, the comments have been published - I also read the next comment which is very poignant and I attach it here for your attention:  ''"It is ironic that shrine of a person who converted tens of thousands to Islam through message of love and peace is attacked by so called Muslims who have successfully painted Islam as a religion of hate and made Islam a target of hatred worldwide."''
-===Baba buddha sahib===
+I am sure that there are a combination of problems with the government in Pakistan for these attacks to continue to increase and one hopes that some change will come soon!
-Bhai sahib ji: Above has been redirected to the enhanced main [[Baba Buddha]] article - many thanks for the enhancements and the merging - I know how much time consuming this can be. Excellent work!
+Hope the pain goes away. Kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 09:50, 28 October 2010 (EDT)
-Yes, it was very common to give a baby a nickname while the ''offical'' name from the elders came later. Even now in rural setting where they do not have a local Gurdwara, the same pattern exists. So the child has a nickname used by all close friends and relations while the name in the school register will be something different. No, I think the custom must have been the same during Baba Buddha's era and yes the name "Bura" sounds like a 'nick' name which became predominate and so we do not have any record of the "real name". 'Buddha' then took over being the blessing of Guru Nanak - wouldn't we all like to have been named by such a saintly person! Baba ji will be remembered for centuries due to the connection with the founder Guru. Bhai sahib, Rabb Rakha, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 00:16, 19 March 2010 (UTC)
+== Placing links to adverts ==
-== Unfortunately - With the name, Davinder Singh Yadav it is very likely to be a Sikh ==
+Bhai sahib ji, Many thanks. The user Shxxxxx? has been blocked; may be he has nothing better to do at the moment! You vigilance is appreciated. Kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 23:17, 26 October 2010 (EDT)
-Bhai sahib ji,
+==Interesting article ==
+Veer ji,
-What a shame! When thousands around you are unable to feed themselves properly how can you indulge in such excesses? $8000 for the chopper and about $5000 for the rest of the wedding. The mind boggles are such ego-centric behaviour. Many thanks for that link. I may use it for an article later. [http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=75&english=t&id=3043#l3043 Revelling in your riches and intoxicated with youth, you waste your life uselessly]. Kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 02:49, 20 March 2010 (UTC)
+Many thanks as always for an article which is well considered and throws a little new light on this recent cancer of humanity. Hopefully, by focussing on this unfortunate disease that has inflicted our species, will we find a slow but sure cure. Many thanks again. Raab Rakha, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 19:54, 3 November 2010 (EDT)
-==Hemkunt==
+----
-I have gone to Hemkunt twice. First time i went upto Ghat, by sumo then, i continued on Horse to hemkunt(inc. one night stay at gobind dham(13 KM from ghat) and 6 km journey further). Second time i traveled whole route by foot, cool and cloudy, foggy rainy, clouds passed touching body. I have pictures of mine, but i have to digitize those, so i picked pics from random websites. Have you ever gone to Hemkunt? My aim was to travel in mountains, gurdwara was just a pretence.
+Veer ji,
+Excellent video about such a strong personality; many thanks for taking the trouble to give me the link. It reinforces the line where the Guru says that in kaljug (the dark age) which is now, [[kirtan]] will dominate; it is clear that certainty music has its magical influence and it can help make people rise above the doom and gloom around them! An essential portion for our troubled times!
-bhul Chuk Maaf ([[User:Thegreateditor|Editor]] 15:21, 21 March 2010 (UTC))
+Most grateful to you, Veer ji; really enjoyed it and it also gave me an insight into an unexplored and relatively new domain which I have only a very vague and sketchy knowledge about. Many thanks and kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 13:08, 5 November 2010 (EDT)
-== Sajjan Kumar & Wikipedia on the Harmandar Sahib ==
+Your Bandi chhor good wishes most welcomed and graciously accepted; may the Lord's blessings be with you and your family too at all times. Raab sada rakha hova (May God always protect), [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 19:00, 5 November 2010 (EDT)
-Bhai Sahib ji
+==Sandy Travels and nanak Travels to mecca==
+Hello Sir, Kindly visit the following link,
-'''Sajjan Kumar:''' It is great news that at last some movement has taken place regarding such dreadful crimes against innocent Sikhs. However, for me this is a case of "too little too late"; it shows the true state of nation. There is very little "real" justice and the consequences are there for all to see. I am afraid that the debt owed to the [[Sikh Gurus]] will never be repaid by this nation; the sacrifices made by [[Guru Tegh Bahadur]] and [[Guru Gobind Singh]] for the liberty of this nation from the crutches of the Mughals is wasted on this generation! The national leaders are without any real values or merits and are wasting their lives fighting each other; where can such leaders steer this once great nation?
+it contains a page of Sandy Travels  who went to arabia during his tour.
-'''Wikipedia:''' I afraid this is another site that I try and keep away from as the ground rules are "the one who  shouts the loudest wins" - there is little coverage of "minority" issues as it is dominated by "western lunee geeks" who think that "America was 'discovered' by Columbus" - the fact that many thousands on natives lived there has no influence on these geeks - their brains have been hard-wired and they have little real ability to think afresh.
+Now days thispage is quoted by our sikhs to prove that nanak went to mecca. I read whole page but i am not getting where actually it is written that he went to mecca or where is the sign which support that nanak went there or something like this. The page is blurred in look, have a look on this so that i could warn these scholars or missionaries that they are taking wrong page to prove this fact and it have no relation with nanak.
-I have tried to reason with them on numerous occasions and in the end to save my sanity I have decided not to contribute to the site and engage in stupid arguments. I suggest that you do the minimum on that site as it will only lead to unnecessary harassment and suffering - and for what! In the end, most Sikhs or people interested in Sikhi will end up here on SikhiWiki. Let us just work on making this a better place!
+if it has relation with nanak kindly simplify the whole writing and tell the line number which support this. I am trying to read it but i am not getting whcat story actually is going on. if you have your personal book of SANDY Travels by George Sandy, kindly put this page online so that one could read clearly.
-I am sorry to give rather negative replies to both these topics; I hope it does not disappoint you too much. My kind regards as always; may the Lord bless you and your family, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 01:36, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
+Do collaborate.......thanks
+([[User:Hpt lucky|Lucky]] 14:04, 11 November 2010 (EST))
-== Interesting news item and other things... ==
+== Article "[[Sikh]]" ==
 Bhai sahib ji,
-'''Pakistan:''' Many thanks for your message again; no, I had not read this one and had it not been for you, many others relating to the situation of Sikhs in India and Pakistan. I am most grateful to you as I know it is not easy to find these stories; much surfing and reading is needs to get to such detailed articles of such relevance - I have linked this one to the news on the mainpage.
+I noticed the following on the above page - it does not seem to be very clear what this means?
-'''Kumar:''' Bhai sahib, I agree that the Kumar development is good news; lets pray that justice is done so that the world can see that crime does not and should not go unpunished. Also as they say, better late than never!
+DAWN.COM ON FACEBOOK<br>
+dawn.com on Facebook, he is strong".
-'''Everyone and the Guru:''' Bhai sahib, you put it really well - the Guru showed no vengeance or hatred and the letter was an attempt to right a gross wrong by bringing the facts to the attention of the Mughal leader; unfortunately, he did not grasp the situation and his end overtook him; had he taken the Guru's advice head on; perhaps the course of history may have changed and this Mughal would not have been given the label of another Islamic fanatic and would have joined the likes of Mian Mir who enlightened the name of Islam in this world.
+Obviously as this was right at the beginning of the page, I have taken it off as it could cause confusion about what the word "Sikh" and our credibility generally?
-Many thanks again for your continuous support and keen eye for interesting stories relating to Sikhi. Regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 13:26, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
+I wonder what you were trying to convey? Kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 20:14, 11 November 2010 (EST)
-== videos and classical music ==
+== Sandy's travels and other theories about Guru Nanak ==
 Bhai Sahib ji,
-I enjoyed the video stories very much; both highlight interesting aspects of life and the changes which are overtaking us. The news article was a little too technical for me as although I have a little understanding of classical music, raags and taals - I think this went into a bit too much technical detail. However, I enjoyed your choice and it was nice watching and reading. Many thanks for helping me keep abreast of happenings in India and Pakistan. Kind regards to you both; may the Lord's blessings be with you. Rabb Rakha, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 04:11, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
+Many thanks for the message. I am of the same view as expressed by you. I do not think that [http://satguru.weebly.com/index.html Harpal Singh Kasoor] website can be considered a serious site to obtained historical facts. He has some interesting theories and with more research we may or may not be able to support these theories. As you say, Sandy Travel Page 97 has no mention of Guru Nanak so cannot be used to support the Guru visit to Mecca.
-Bhai Sahib ji, Yes, beautiful picture and interesting article about Bhagat Singh - didn't know he choose the bullet and not the rope. Thanks again. [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 03:52, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
+I don't think there is any bad intention in Kasoor's work but an over-powering mind, indulging in the extreme which has produced some interesting views; however these views at present have no scientific or historical basis.
-== Please, can you help? ==
+One thing that is of value is the inscription of the Mool Mantar at the [[Guru Nanak in Azerbaijan|temple in Baku]]. It is difficult to understand how and when this inscription ended up on this shrine. Does it have a serious connection with Guru Nanak or is it the work of someone who has a distant connection with Sikhi? Although we have covered this here at SikhiWiki, more research could help establish the nature of the link to Sikhi.
-Bhai Sahib ji,
+Many thanks for your comments and your contribution to this discussion. I hope someone with take time to explore in proper scientific way some of the ideas that have been put forward by this website. Kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 19:37, 13 November 2010 (EST)
-Hope all is well; have not seen you at the village pump lately.
+== Religious Casteism alive and well in Nankana District & I just love to sing in Punjabi ==
-I was wondering if I could "pick your brain" on two words that I am looking for as I am a little disturbed by the translation of a [[tuk]] - line from [[Guru Granth Sahib]]. The line is {{srig-h|304|13976|''ਜੋਰਾ ਦਾ ਆਖਿਆ ਪ੝ਰਖ ਕਮਾਵਦੇ ਸੇ ਅਪਵਿਤ ਅਮੇਧ ਖਲਾ ॥ or Jorĝ ḝĝ ĝkẖi▫ĝ purakẖ kamĝvḝe se apviṯ ameḝẖ kẖalĝ.''}} which is ''officially" translated as ''"Those men who act according to the orders of women are impure, filthy and foolish"'' - this is not correct for various reasons. I will breakdown the Gurmukhi to try and explain my reasons.
+Veer ji,
-{|
+Many thanks for the excellent links. It is amazing that the place where Guru Nanak was born, the practise of casteism continues. Millions of people in far-off places have heard the call of Nanak and have been elevated while the ignorant ones living just a few miles from Nanak's birth place have heard nothing!
-!Gurmukhi || Pronunciation|| Meaning  || translation/comment
-|-
-|{{sdd|ਜੋਰਾ}} ||jora || is a reference to a dominating women who enslaves men. There is a saying in Punjabi "ਜੋਰੂ ਇਸਤ੝ਰੀ ਦਾ" ''"joru istaree dah"''  which loosely means "slave of the wife" || women - is not quite right. should be something like dominant, possessive, over-powering. See below. 1.  please can you suggest other words?
-|-
-|ਦਾ   || dah || of  || ok
-|-
-|ਆਖਿਆ || akhia || requested  || ok
-|-
-|ਪ੝ਰਖ   || purakh || men  || ok
-|-
-|ਕਮਾਵਦੇ  || kamavdea  || to earn;   || See below also 2. Any suggestion here also?
-|-
-|ਸੇ   || say || they || ok
-|-
-|ਅਪਵਿਤ  || apvit || impure ||  ok
-|-
-|ਅਮੇਧ  || amedh ||  foolish || ok
-|-
-|ਖਲਾ  || khala || standing  || ok
-|}
-. The problem is with 2 words the first word is ''"jora"'' which refers to certain type of women - I cannot see a similarity in western cultures; but it is a woman who uses tact and psychology to dominate men; the Punjabi saying "{{sdd|ਜੋਰੂ}} ਇਸਤ੝ਰੀ ਦਾ" ''"joru istaree dah"''  which loosely means "slave of the wife" captures this concept; also the word means "power" and conveys an aspect of compulsion due to use of emotional or other power. I wonder if you have any suggest for such a person. The word "joru" and "jora" have a linkage. The word "joru" although used for women can also refer to men.
+How low humans get in ignorance and darkness. Without education and mental realisation, one lives in hell. One ray of light is that there is at least one journalist who has some sense! Let's hope there are a few more sensible people left in Pakistan and in the judiciary in Nankana Sahib District!
-. The second word is perhaps a little easier {{sdd|ਕਮਾਵਦੇ}} or "kamavdea" which means "to earn" also gain, perform, attain.  Any thoughts? Any help will be most appreciated as always. Regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 17:15, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
+Interesting story: I found a few links to the Gori's (white girl's) videos. I don't think her voice appears to fit the "desi" music style but she has a "novelty" value for the Punjabis as they probably have never seen a white girl singing in their language!
-== A surprise for me too ==
+*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-YbE0tLMDA
+*http://www.youtube.com/user/anitalerche
+* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97KZGgQyo7k Aao ji, ji aian noon Please come, you are most welcome!
+Anyway hope she is successful in her venture. I am sure she will have great fun but success is another thing.
-Bhai sahib ji
+Regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 12:31, 21 November 2010 (EST)
-Obviously a writer not exposed to Sikhi at all and the beautiful relationship that the Gurus had with Miam Mir and other Muslims! A real shame that this fact is not known to more writers in this part of the world. Sometimes I think that just a little more education could solve many of the world problems. If the world knew of the real way in which history developed during the 1500s onwards may be there would be more peace! We appear to be repeating the same mistakes of the Mughals with the Taliban!
+== Banda Bahadur ==
-An interesting and thought provoking article despite the slight tunnel vision of the writer! Many thanks and kind regards; good to see your message after so many days. Rabb Rakha, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 17:32, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
+Veer ji,
-== Harvinder Singh ==
+I had always assumed that Banda Singh was actually wearing a turban and only now have I noticed that he may have a metallic "helmet" with a spike on top of his turban. Unfortunately, there is no historical record as far as I know to confirm this issue and it may be best to change this if possible.
-Bhai sahib ji
+Also, we know that in the 2 WWs, the Sikhs choose to fight without helmets; there must have been some reason for them to press for this requirement and I assume that they choose this mode of dress as their predecessors had insisted on the same mode previously.
-'''Personal:''' I am sorry to hear that pain still troubles you and keeps you up regularly during the night; only the Lord know why such bodily suffering has to be endured; you have my prayers and sympathy; may the Lord provide you with the strength and endurance to overcome this personal hardship.
+I have tested a normal motor cycle helmet with my turban and I can confirm that it is too small to fit on top of a normal turban; you can fit the helmet over a [[patka]] but not over a normal turban. The problem of cyclists and motor cyclists is the "inconvenience" of carrying a turban with you if you have to wear a helmet. And what happens if you forget your turban! For this reason, in the UK, turban wearing Sikhs are exempt from this regulation. I don't think it has resulted in any "additional" burden on the National Health Service (NHS) with increased injuries to the head.
+Many thanks for the effort in changing the image.  Raab rakha, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 18:36, 23 November 2010 (EST)
-Bhai sahib, I suffer from severe acidity problem in the stomach when I either eat oily or "rich" food containing ghee or butter, etc or if I take a heavy meal, etc, etc.  I sometimes think that this may be God's way of preventing me from harming myself. I have to be forever vigilant about my food but now and then I get this "suffering" so I have to further restrain myself and keep to the straight and narrow path as far as my eating is concerned. Perhaps, God gives us these pains to steer us onto the correct path! However, Bhai sahib, I hope the pain is not too severe and easily manageable/bearable.
+== Harpal Singh Kasoor and User:Cocogijoqop ==
-'''Harvinder:''' Please do not apologise for keeping an eye on this website - we are all here as volunteers to help spread the message of the Gurus and to help anyone who is troubled by walking on this path of righteousness; we share the burden to monitor the Gurus image as portrayed by the postings at this site. You were not "snooping" but keeping an eye on the property of the Gurus; please feel free to look at everything that is happening here obvious subject to your personal time available.
+Veer ji,
-In fact, I am most grateful for your amendments as they make the text much more detailed and covers aspects which I could never have got my hands on. Many thanks. As I have not received a reply from Harvinder, I will send a very polite letter to the school in the next 12 hours but also bearing in mind the comments made by keen eyed [[User talk:Gbssungha|user Gbssungha]] who observed that it was April 1 yesterday and this may be an "April fools prank"; so I will deal with it a little more slowly than usual.
+Many thanks for your messages regarding the two above pages; the second is gone due to your vigilance and I am hoping to edit the article on H S Kasoor in due course. As you mentioned, I am not convinced that his research is dependable in its present form.
-Also, just the fact that Harvinder has posted this message and that several of us have responded may produce its own momentum; your quote from the statute will also put pressure on the school. I am most grateful for your very valuable contribution. May the Lord's blessings be with you. Kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 14:08, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
+Also, the details on the user information has no references and may not be too reliable as such. I noticed that Sunny Singh Doad actually set-up this page; I wonder if he too was excited by some of the "discoveries" highlighted by H S Kasoor? I will try and deal with this page soon. Many thanks for bringing these to my attention. Raab rakha, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 09:05, 3 December 2010 (EST)
-== Kalasinga and other things! ==
+== user has fun and Nirmal Jit Singh Sekhon ==
 Bhai Sahib ji,
-Many thanks for the message and your medical remedy; I will try a similar product from the local shops and see if does the trick. Fortunately, due to a generally reasonable level of self control, the problem has not been too serious lately; but I will keep "your medicine" to hand just in case!
+Many thanks for you messages; I have made a note of the user with changing suffix to his name and will deal with it as soon as another user profile is created. Unfortunately, I have not figured out how to deal with these abuses via the IP address but will try and see if the Mediawiki site offers any help. I am grateful to you for your vigilance and proactive stand in this regard.
-Bhai sahib, your remedy has given me another thought which is this: I don't generally like taking sour thing - may be that in itself may be the problem. I think that taking a huge variety of foods may help the digestive system and by restricting myself predominately to just sweet and salty foods may not be good for the stomach. I will try and include some bitter and sour things in my daily diet. It is possible that the lack of these bitter and sour foods, which I naturally dislike is encouraging the growth of a variant of bacteria that promotes more acid production in the stomach. Thanks for the idea; I will try some experimenting and let you know how it goes!
+[[Nirmal Jit Singh Sekhon]]: Yes, that's a good point - featuring this article for Vijay Divas. However, we need to improve this article so that we have a little more information and better presentation that is to be expected of a 'featured article'.
-'''Delhi problem:''' Yes, as you say the work done on the possible "April fool joke" was rewarding just for its own sake and it has put us in a forward position if it ever happens again. Many thanks for your hard work; the facts are ready if we need them again. Also, you have a better understanding of where to find other such details. Excellent and detailed research in such a short time; I am most grateful to you for your work. It is rewarding when such amazing results can be produce by us "working together" as a group, only formed to promote the message of the Gurus.
+Obviously I do not expect the accounts by the two opposing sides to agree on what actually happened at the time; so it is not expected to give such a "compromised" view. What is clear is that the India Air Force was impressed by the courage of this pilot and chose to award him one of the highest award granted to an airman at the time.  I think that is the main angle to pursue as that is what his peers appreciated and decided about this person.
-'''Kalasingha & E Africa:''' When we were I Kenya, the word ''Kalasingha'' was much used and the local had a lot of respect for the Sikhs who wore turbans. It was strange to come to the UK during the late 1960s and find that we had became an "unknown" entity; the word "kalasingha" and the respect that went with it was nowhere to be found in the UK. At first we thought that this same respect of the "Singhs" would come here as well after a few years; once the local recognised us, they would treat us in the same way; unfortunately, we were completely wrong. To this day I have not understood why? Were the African more perceptive of other people or were the old Sikhs exceptional in the way they lived or .......
+Please make a start on the revision to the article and I will join in as well. Many thanks for your useful suggestions. Kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 21:00, 8 December 2010 (EST)
-Thanks to the Sikh heritage website - excellent pictures and stories. I have downloaded the Africa part to my system so that I can browse it without the broadband connection and as a resource to refer to instantly.  Kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 17:50, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
+== Many new users daily ==
+Bhai sahib ji,
+Many thanks for your message and good wishes. May you and your family also have a most pleasant, prosperous and enjoyable New year.
+I have sent an email to the technical guys at Sikhnet to implement a "Captcha" security system on user creation. Unfortunately, they appear to be on "vacation" but hopefully they will be able to get this security feature working soon after they return from their New year holidays.
+The creation of these redundant users does not create any obvious problem but it is best stopped if at all possible. I will keep you updated on the progress. Kind regards. Raab Rakha, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 13:38, 2 January 2011 (EST)
-== Baisakhi ==
+== Gur Sikh Temple ==
 Bhai sahib ji,
-Many thanks for your good wishes and the very useful external link; may the Almighty bless us all during these difficult times all around the world. I have added the news item. My kind regards to you and your family, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 01:06, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
+Many thanks for the very interesting link to the 100 year old Gurdwara in Canada. I have featured a short intro with a link to this article in the 'Daily News' section on the Mainpage. Kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 21:05, 4 January 2011 (EST)
+== Lahore ==
+Hanji, my pleasure. I was busy setting up an non profit jathebandi to help poor sikhs in India and Pak, we are starting our work in Pakistan, so i wanted to set more info on Pak article :D
-===Thanks for the renewed link===
+Families fine thanks, how are you and your family?
-Bhai Sahib,
+Been a real long time. [[User:SunnySinghDoad|SunnySinghDoad]] 13:23, 11 January 2011 (EST)
-Many thanks again for bringing the renewal of the article at the link to my attention; more coverage than before. The article is informative but may contain an error relating to Guru Gobind Singh. I do not believe the 10th master visited Hassanabdal; the writer may be a little confused on this point. Nevertheless, an interesting news item. Our news  link from the mainpage still works so I have not changed the picture.
+== Fatal shooting prompts outcry ==
-Queues at immigration or security check point seems to be the way of the world these days especially in 3rd world countries.
+Bhai Sahib ji, {{WKWF}}
-Veer ji, I am most grateful again for your vigilance and your keen eye for these Sikhi related items; kind regards and keep in chardikala, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 16:38, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
+It is very good to hear from you after a long time! I hope all is well with your good self and the whole of the family. Many thanks for the message.
-===Thanks for the photo===
+It is a sad piece of news in what is becoming an increasingly intolerant world. I have linked into the Sikhnet news section which appears to be covering this incident in some detail. It seems that just taking a walk is becoming a risk in one of the richest countries of the world. We have had similar crimes in many parts of the affluent world which is deeply concerning.
-Bhai sahib ji,
+In the past, we were accustomed to poor individuals mainly in parts of Africa, robbing and killing for money and other expensive items but now it is not greed that is the motivation but intolerance and human division - A very ugly and serious development and a clear sign of diminishing moral standards in the world has is getting materially richer by the day. Today, we have more material wealth but morally we have become poorer. Where in the past morality and spiritual values meant something now it accounts for nothing! An alarming development which if unchecked will result in total misery for the world.
-Many thanks for the great photo; I will incorporate it in our daily photo database. Kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 02:38, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
+Many thanks again. Kind regards and the Lord's glorious blessings, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 02:31, 8 March 2011 (EST)
-== veiled attack ==
+== Prayer for Japan ==
-Bhai sahib ji,
+Veer ji, {{WKWF}}
-I am most grateful for your message; I am afraid we did have a "server down" situation earlier today; can't understand why but that is 3 times in the last 2 weeks; fortunately the support people were able to fix things within a few hours.
+Many thanks for fixing my errors in the text relating to the above article; although I had read the article several times, I failed to "see" my own mistakes. I find that when I am tired, many more mistakes result.
-Its good to hear that you are spending time outside in the fresh air and sunshine gardening; I hope you are enjoying it. I too have been helping my wife with some of the chores in the garden and it makes a change from working indoors for long hours. I think with the blessings of the Almighty, SikhiWiki is at a stage where we can work at a relaxed pace if we need to; there is a good amount of information already available for most people to be satisfied; more creative ideas and a little gradual improvement should be sufficient to keep the site ticking along.
+As always, I am most grateful to you. Many thanks also for improving the general standard of the writing on this website.
-I did notice the "veiled attack" and the distasteful article about [[Harbinder Singh Rana]] who appears to be making a valuable contribution to the visibility of Sikhi in the UK and through the website at ASHT to the whole world as can be seen from the article here at SikhiWiki; he may have some blemishes from the distant past but to forgive is a virtue and a reformed person must be allowed to "make a new start" and prove his reformation; to condemn someone for life is not the message of [[Guru Nanak]]!
+I think I have been spending too many hours daily watching the awful scenes of the disaster; a very sad and heart-wrecking tragedy for the innocent people of Japan. Kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 12:21, 15 March 2011 (EDT)
-I believe that by making such a extensive and valuable contribution to Sikhi and society generally, he has shown that he is a reformed character worthy of a second chance and that his past needs to be put there, in the past where it belongs! He is entitled to be honoured for the great work that he is doing now in the present.
+== Sikh adverts & Derea walas ==
-I agree with you that these sneak attacks are not acceptable and contrary to the message of the Guru. I have looked at all the references that you mentioned and linked them to the new article here rather than at Wikipedia where the article will probably be deleted soon. It is common these days to find vindictive rivalry between members of close communities and I am sure this may be the reason why these negative remarks have been made by some; further, it may also be a sign of jealousy which is why supporter of Mr Rana have also been mentioned in an attempt to tarnish their reputation as well. Bhai sahib, there is a dark cloud of negativity, hatred and vindictiveness which prevails in the world these days and the positivity, praise and love has taken flight.
+Bhai Sahib ji, {{WKWF}}
-I am most obliged to you, for your message and the keen interest that you have always shown in matters here; my prayers are with you; may Waheguru bless you and your family and may happiness surround everyone of you at all times. Rabb Rakha, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 22:57, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
+'''Ad Links''' I have noticed the advertising links by this user and I taken a few out when they were placed on articles having no association with the 5Ks but I have left others on articles related to the 5Ks.
-== Ubuntu & Golden Langar  ==
+The reason for this is that some Sikh communities are not able to buy the 5Ks locally and these links possible provide a "much needed" service to these communities.
-Respected Bhai sahib ji,
+For this reason, I believe that we should allow a few of these types of links of this sort but there will come a time when we have to perhaps place a restriction on these types of links and narrow them to a special page of say - something like - "Sikh artefacts retailers".
-'''Ubuntu:''' An amazing word! In addition to '[[Sarbat dah bhala]]', I also see more of the word [[Parupkaar]] here - "to do good to others" in the word "Ubuntu". I have added the quotes from your message to the article at Parupkaar. Parupkaree - is the person who does good to others. I read all the links that you gave and the one to {{w|Ubuntu (philosophy)}} is most fascinating. Many thanks for bring this to my attention. In fact I have the 'Ubuntu' version of Linux loaded on the computer at mum's but I never knew what the word meant; I knew it was African but did not realise that it has such a interesting link to Sikhi!
+At present as there are not too many of these links, I have let them stay provided they relate to the subject matter on that page. However, I think if we start getting too many of these links, we will have to rethink our position on this. Bhai sahib, what are your views on this?
-{{p|File:Seva - making rotia 5.jpg|Taava or Loh for making chappatis}}
-'''Golden Langar:''' Bhai sahib the reference to 'Loh' or {{sdd|ਲੋਹ}} is the large hot plate used to make chappatis. The picture show one at [[Bangla Sahib Gurdwara]] in Delhi but these can be found in most Gurdwaras; so the reference is to this huge plate! I can assure you they are not small like the ones we use in homes but much bigger with upwards of 20-50 chappatis being made at the same time.
+'''Ullus - (stupid, blind as) - Owls'''
+Bhai sahib, I could not find the remark - "spreading his blasphemy to the Ullus willing to listen" that you quote but I am of the same view as you; the Gurus could not engage in such language or behaviour.
+Many Sikhs do not understand the deep message of the Gurus and very frequently misinterpret their words in a way to suit their own prejudices. I hope this helps but if you need me to look at the matter in more detail, please let me know where this quote appears. It is very dangerous to associate such language to our Gurus and if it is still present in the article, I would like to remove it immediately - the fact that I cannot find it perhaps means that it has been removed already.  Raab rakha, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 04:18, 20 March 2011 (EDT)
+Sir i hv already removed the word Ullu
+Sarbjeet Singh
+== News and Sikhi related products ==
+Veer ji, {{WKWF}}
+'''Sikhi related products''' I agree, it may be a better idea to group these adverts onto individual pages - I will try and start that in the near future as I am sure this trend is going to grow. I noticed that SikhKaras.com has approached Sikhnet and now appears on the sidebar - I think you did mentioned that for a similar website! Perhaps they have been listening to our conversation?
+'''News item''' The news item [http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Dishonour-to-Sikhs-is-a-matter-of-national-insult-S-M-Krishna/articleshow/7770067.cms Dishonour to Sikhs...] is on the News section. Many thanks for the alert.
+Raab Rakha, Waheguru's blessing to you and your family, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 06:28, 23 March 2011 (EDT)
-I don't know how we can make the translation better because as you say, for most westerns this would not convey the right image.  I think I would add your translation first and then quote the original one and explain that these are very large plate! Plus add the picture - I will try and find a better picture which I remember seeing of a massive round plate.
+== [[Kauda Bheel]] ==
-'''Aashima Seth Captured on film:'''  Bhai sahib, when you copy an article from the web or from an email, then the name of the image file sometimes appears in place of the image on the wiki article - I believe that "Aashima Seth Captured on film" may have been the name of the image file at this location in the original article.
+Bhai sahib ji, {{WKWF}}
-I have adjusted this section by taking out this phrase. Kind regards and many thanks again, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 23:21, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
+Many thanks for a most intriguing link - It is almost unbelievable!   500 years after the great Guru's mission in that region, we still have individuals who can engage in such a degrading and inhumane habit. I think the family must be devastated having lost a close member and then finding this!
+I don't know about Islam but I think the Guru covers this in the general statements about killing beings:
+[http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=1375&english=t&id=58664 Kabeer, they oppress living beings and kill them, and call it proper. When the Lord calls for their account, what will their condition be? ||199||] and also [http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=1103&english=t&id=47392 You kill living beings, and call it a righteous action. Tell me, brother, what would you call an unrighteous action? You call yourself the most excellent sage; then who would you call a butcher? ||2||].
-'''Video of Gurdwara & Langar:''' Interesting video; "May the iron plates of the Langar always be hot" sounds better than "hot plates"; yes, I think this conveys the meaning without the link to the small appliances that we use in homes. It is to convey the wish that may the Langar always continue and that this institution established by Guru Nanak survive the many hurdles faced by mankind so that the generosity and the commitment to sewa and to charity never diminish in this world! Excellent; well decided! Kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 22:36, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
+I think these statements make you wonder and question the whole aspect of killing other beings and the justifications advanced! Many thanks again for the link. Kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 18:30, 7 April 2011 (EDT)
-== [[Harbinder Singh Rana‎]] ==
+== Anna Hazare ==
-Bhai sahib ji,
+Veer ji, {{WKWF}}
+Sorry for the late response. No coverage of this on UK news channels especially nothing on BBC News. There appears to be a lot of coverage of national news with Libya, Syria, Yemen and Japan coming a close second; unfortunately very little from India.
-Many thanks for the message; I am most grateful for your help. I am sorry that I have been slow to respond but with the fine weather recently in the South-East here in the UK, I have taken the rear oppurtunity to spent a little more time gardening and otherwise outside in the sun.
+I have Googled this and the news seems like an interesting development; corruption is still a big problem for many developing nations and India, in particular, is badly affected. Hopefully something good will come from his efforts. However, corruption within nations is like a huge locomotive train; it can take a very long time to stop. So unless drastic steps are taken, this national disease will not go away easily.
-Bhai sahib, I have removed all the recent changes from this article as I feel this may be counter productive; also we have not given Harbinder Singh a chance to explain his side of things as with the passage of time the articles remaining on the net are the ones which are vindictive rather than "run of the mill" - this would give a very biased picture of what really happened. Many years ago, it is appreciated that the press and society here in the UK generally was very "anti-foreigners" and many injustices have been done in this way by the press; I know of many exaggerations and unnecessary coverage of stories where "foreigners" were involved; I guess that if this was not a Mr Singh, there probably would not have been a story in the papers at all! So I am of the opinion that unless the matter is recent and covered by the Sikh press, we need to be careful.
+Also, the higher you climb up on the political ladder, the more corruption you find. For this reason, the cleansing is going to doubly difficult. Anyway, I wish him well and hope that he will start something new in the nation. Many thanks for the alert; kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 18:25, 11 April 2011 (EDT)
-The other more important aspect of articles here is that as Sikhs and followers of the spiritual path, we need to be forgiving and more understanding - this which happened in the 1980's have to "put to bed" if one has reformed oneself. Mr Singh is obviously helping the Sikh community now and that I believe should be our prime focus. He has some problems from the distant past but they are decades ago and as a forgiving faith, I do not think these old issues help us here at SikhiWiki; a site which promote Sikhi and Sikhs; I hope you will not take any offence to this stand.
+== Peshawar & Rabab ==
-As you say, people appear to have fascination for sexual acts of any kind and user:Jangbeer Singh appears to have a special issue with this person. I have protected the page for now as we cannot be "watching over our shoulders" at all times. Please let me know if you need anything particular added otherwise we will leave that article as it stands.
+Bhai sahib ji, {{SSA}}
-It is good to know that you worked for NBC doing Court work; you must have listened to many horrible stories! It is interesting to note the "attraction of sexual trials" for the person on the street! Bhai Sahib, keep well; may the Lord's thought always be in your heart, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 23:38, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
+Many thanks for the link. It is a great picture and I have downloaded it. I hope to use it for an article on manufacturing of this instrument when I have gather enough material to construct the article. It is a shame there was no write-up on the Rabab manufacturing or any other aspect of the instrument. Many thanks again; a useful resource for later. King regards and my good wishes, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 20:59, 13 May 2011 (EDT)
-== Bowing ==
+Many thanks for being so alert and for reading my reply so carefully; as you had correctly gathered, I only downloaded and read the one picture and relating text. Thanks to your acute awareness, I now have 7 beautiful pictures for a future article. I'm most grateful to you. Guru's blessings and kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 20:40, 14 May 2011 (EDT)
-Bhai sahib ji,
+==Contribute Here==
+* [[Sikh Books]]
-You keep surprising me with the wisdom and knowledge that you display of the faiths and cultures of the East. Bowing or showing respect is something which is valued by the Gurus and to be humble is a necessity to progress spiritually. An egocentric will not reach God -  {{srig-h|226|9836|Acting in egotism, the Lord is not known, even by wearing religious robes}}
+Regards
-and also God can only be realised when the ego has been subdued - {{srig-h|33|1385|The Name of the Lord dwells within the mind; egotism and anger are wiped away.}}
-As you say the words Namaste, Namascar and Danndotnaa all have the flavour of bowing. In the generation of my parents, it was a custom for all children to touch the feet of their elders; this cultivated an attitude of humbleness and love and people lived in unity and peace when this custom was maintained for many centuries. However, this aspect of life has disappeared and rigid behaviour has become the order of the day.
+([[User:Hpt lucky|Lucky]] 17:09, 30 May 2011 (EDT))
-There are fanatics in all cultures and faiths and Sikhi is no exception. Many believe that bowing should only be reserved for the Guru Granth Sahib and that no one else should be honoured in this manner! So, children will not bow to their parents or elders and the custom of bowing has fast disappeared; with it has gone the attitude of being humble and respect for elders.
+== Wrong practise by new user ==
-I agree with you completely on the section that you write about Bhai Mohinder Singh; he is a humble person completely devoted to righteousness and we don't need user like this one to go around needlessly "insult" their good name. The user has a very negative attitude and therefore I had barred him; I do not believe that this is the correct platform for him to "spit his poison". All his three contributions have been negative and criticisms of Sikhs or their organisations. I do not believe that he has the positive attitude necessary to be a contributor here at SikhiWiki.
+Bhai Sahib ji,
-I hope you enjoyed your time in the garden; we have had a most splendid weather for the last 3 weeks and many flowers and vegetables have taken root. It is great to see the plants grow and flourish; another miracle of God!
+Many thanks for the message and for asking about my and my family's well being; we are all in satisfactory health and in good spirits. I hope that you and your family too are keeping well.
-I don't know who Gurmeet Kaur Rai is but I believe she spoke against the re-gilding on the Harmandar Sahib by GNNSJ. Before one criticises they must themselves attain a position of authority; they must have done similar tasks to a better standard so that they can criticise from a position of strength. I do not believe that Ms Rai has achieved any project of the calibre or scale of that mastered by GNNSJ; it was a "paper criticism" based on theory and hypothesis and not one where they have actually done any project of a similar scale!  It is a shame that we have been involved in negative aspect of our work here  rather than adding positive material to the site. O'well, sometimes you have to stop the car and clean the screen by hand when a lot of filth gets on it!  Rabb Rakha, 00:59, 30 April 2010 (UTC)
+Thanks to your alertness, I have taken action to reverse the changes made by the user and sent him a message to make him/her aware of our policy in respect of making any major changes to any article. Hopefully s/he will take heed! Kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 22:46, 30 May 2011 (EDT)
-== Mata Jito vs. Mata Sunder Kaur ==
-Bhai sahib ji,
+==Your views about it==
+Sometimes we use adjective with some words which makes feel that word have no greatness in itself for example:
+) Gursikh -> Devout Gursikh, as Gursikh is always devout
+) Gurmat -> Tatt Gurmat, as Gurmat is always Tatt, what is fake gurmat?
+) Great Devotee -> as devotee is always great, what is small devotee?
+and so on.
+Dhann Dhann Satgur Shri Guru Tegh Bahadur Maharaaj ji <---- When  we say SATGUR TEGH BAHADUR, itself imples that he is dhann dhann and  maharaaj(jis nun bakshe sifat salah nanak patshah patshah and sat purakh  jis janeya satgur tis ka naao).
+I think you understand what i want to convey. The words in Gurbani  like Gurmat, Gurmukh, Satgur etc etc etc. already are so great wordss  that it does not require any adjective.
+General Talk, what you feel ? Kindly share your great views <--- see again great!!!! :)
+([[User:Hpt lucky|Lucky]] 02:21, 31 May 2011 (EDT))
+== response by Gghatore ==
-I agree with you 100%; it is indeed confusing. I think we need to accept that there are two possibilities that have not yet been resolved or at least accept that there is the "other view" as well so that the reader is aware of the two versions and so is not totally confused.
+Bhai sahib ji, {{SSA}}
-"Various evidence has been produced" but the authenticity and originality of some of this evidence has been challenged - so we need to cover both views of this issue until the matter is properly resolved in the future.
+Many thanks for highlighting the response by Gghatore and for picking up what, as you say, is a common mistake made by many new users.
-I agree, as you say, "If the truth cannot be known, it seems best to state there are differing opinions." Please feel free to amend in line with this concept. If you need any help, please let me know but please state that there are two views in the Sikh circles and that the matter has not yet been fully resolved one way or the other. Many thanks and kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 04:26, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
+Your help, keen eye and acute sense of responsibility is much appreciated. Many thanks again and kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 14:37, 1 June 2011 (EDT)
-== Puzzling behavior and citation template ==
+== Interesting article ==
 Bhai Sahib ji,
-Indeed, what a puzzling way to act and attack! Thanks for the vigilance; I have added the caption about Ragi ji carrying the Guru Granth Sahib. Turning to the template issue, Bhai sahib there are a few options available and I will cover just a couple (I hope I have understood you correctly):
+I could not find a link - May be it did not copy correctly - Please can you try again. I would love to read the article. No, I don't mind being called a infidel! or being labelled Hindu! Living in this world of extremes has taught me that tolerance is an essential part of survival and a necessity if you want peace in your life. Many thanks and warm regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 08:23, 7 June 2011 (EDT)
+== news from Elk Grove  ==
+Veer ji,
-. To just display the words "citation needed" is superscript perhaps in blue -just like this: <sup><font color=blue>citation needed</font color></sup> at the point where the exact phrase <nowiki> {{citation needed}} </nowiki> is inserted, a template can be created to do this. Just click on the red text - {{citation needed}} - this will open a new page. At this template page simply add the following to the template: <nowiki><sup><font color=blue>citation needed</font color></sup></nowiki>. Then save this in the normal way. Once this template has been created, then whenever you insert the phrase <nowiki> {{citation needed}} </nowiki>, the words <sup><font color=blue>citation needed</font color></sup> will appear. That is how a template is created!
+Many thanks for the link.
-. The second option is using an existing feature - There is an existing template previously called fact but now called citation which does a similar job. Simply insert the following template reference and the words "citation needed" will display like this {{citation}} at that point in the text where the phrase in inserted; the phrase to insert is just: <nowiki> {{citation}} </nowiki>
+It is a matter of great shame and pity that even when we have such a diverse, multi-cultural community in Elk Grove apparently living in harmony, there is still serious, deep rooted and sour enmity among at least a few of the members of this apparently peaceful community! It begs the question, when will the individuals of the human race begin to listen to the wise words of wisdom uttered by so many for so long! Was the mission of Lord Krishna, Jesus Christ, Moses, Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) and all the others in vain? At present, it look that way, doesn't it?
-Bhai sahib, I hope this is what you require and I hope you will be able to follow these rather complicated instructions; if you wish to modify this in any way or if I have misunderstood you or you need me to clarify anything else, please do not hesitate to write again. Rabb Rakha, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 21:54, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
+Warm regards and my best wishes to you and your family, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 15:44, 12 July 2011 (EDT)
-==Charitar 16==
+== Killings in Elk Grove ==
-Thanks for brushing up the article. done a good job. i have added reply to discussion page iof charitar 16, must read that. if any confusion ask ([[User:Hpt lucky|Lucky]] 09:05, 25 April 2010 (UTC))
-==Sir==
+Veer ji, {{SSA}}
-This is written by old historians who were near to guru's history of 17th century and few in 18th century. Do you think those guys were ignorant of punjabi culture who wrote such a vast history in punjabi and belong to punjab? were they making history delicious by adding more wives?
-moreover how many guru's wives name was changed? no answer. Actually bro they take feeling that their guru can't marry more than one. they did not know it was need of time so he married twice. they are talking about culture then having more than one wives was also culture, this doesn't mean i will add 3 more wives to guru nanak's history or arjun dev's history.
+Many thanks for sharing your ideas about these terrible killings. Unfortunately, I could not access the first link as it requires a paid membership. However, I understand the point that you make. It is amazing how man had moved into another territory of crime to establish "honor"; this honor is about the same as the dreaded honor that many Asians feel when killing their daughters! A terrible development, whichever way one looks at it.
-i have given 8 sources. Their burial place is different sunder kaur in delhi and jeet kaur in anandpur. Today a scholar came and don't know what he felt that this is blot of having more then one wive and he fix this with gobind singh. How could we ignore all past histories supporting facts? even memorials are present.
+Innocent lives lost for what? This sort of irresponsible behaviour will only bring pain to society and the sooner we realise this, the better. Better education; better moral standards; better awareness; and higher values have to be established if we are to see real peace and happiness on this planet. This all appears to be a very distant dream at present! The Lord's blessings, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 02:10, 19 July 2011 (EDT)
+----
-i have uploaded birth and marriage place of sunder kaur. she was married at bajwara and Jeet kaur was married at guru ka lahore.
+Many thanks for the image of the news item. It is a really sad bit of news in an otherwise peaceful area. How awful that so many people die daily from gun crime in the USA.
-Now tomarrow from my emotions i will say gobind singh had no sons, how could a father do this to his sons how could he send his son for war. gobind singh was bad father etc etc. will it be accepted?
+There is an email on the news item; it may be an idea to send them an email to suggest the link between the two investigations involving Ford pickup trucks.
-thats why i mentioned that scholar's claim too. so that article will not say one side talk. and i have replied to that scholar's article too. Veer ji right now gurmukhs in nihung samparda is inactive regarding PARCHAR(Preach), if they will come in arena you will see a explosion of wisdom will occur and it will difficult to handle.
+Isn't it time to ban the free licence to carry a gun? It appears that a lot of lunatics in the USA like to carry and use guns to settle their differences. To me that is an appalling situation.
-hor sunao, life how is? if still confusion then tell don't make your point on such assumption that it happens, it not happens everytime. My mom's name is same but my faternal aunt name was changed by my grandmom. well this is today if you will take old times, ganga(wife of 5th gur) name was same before and after marriage and their are other wives too like Bhani name was same, anokhi name was same etc etc etc etc etc. This assumption is given to prove a fact which is not acceptable in histories.
+Veer ji, stay safe and keep well, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 18:48, 20 July 2011 (EDT)
-moreover i have no taste of making more gurus wife but sir fact is fact.
+== Mark Stroman's death ==
-([[User:Hpt lucky|Lucky]] 06:08, 1 May 2010 (UTC))
+Veer ji, {{SSA}}
+Many thanks again for bringing another amazing story to my attention - the victim trying to save the assailant!  This is a really noble gesture and obviously a little foreign to the "American Way" where its an eye for an eye. Shame that another life is wastefully lost!
+I also read the story here - http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jul/21/texas-executes-911-revenge-killer at one of our more renowned newspaper and also read Mr Storman's website. What becomes very clear is the poor moral and ethical standards of this person's understanding. He has "picked up" the hatred and prejudices portrayed in the media and has no education or understanding of a higher level of thinking or any higher awareness of the value of life.
-----Bhagat Singh
+It is like provoking a dog - its reaction is predetermined. Similarly, Mr Storman has been bombarded with the message of hatred and Islamophobia; of anger and ill-feelings against people who do not belong to the "American way"; of the rights of the "European race" or "white man" due to their "sacrifices". He can ill understand that there is a big world outside USA which also has their way of life (probably going back 1000's of years not just a few 1000's); and they too have "their" rights.
-Dear Sir,
+Shame that a society ill equips its citizens for the world that surround them and then when they react in the only way that they know, the system then continues to systematically kill them in the name of law! Just to quote from wikipedia: ''"Among juveniles  (for example, minors under the age of 16, 17, or 18, depending on legal  jurisdiction) serving in correctional facilities, 86% owned a gun at  some point, with 66% acquiring their first gun by age 14."'' If children are not taught self-discipline and the rights to life of others, and can get access to guns at an early age, it is natural that they will succumb to the power of the gun! It is the natural path to take.
-The book is published by Punjbabi University Patiala, and is called Shaheed Bhagat Singh, A Biography, By Gurdev Singh Deol.M.A,Ph.D.
-Major (NCC). First Edition was printed in 1969.
-Gurfateh ji
+A very interesting story which opens many angles of discussion but the issue is totally sad and is wasteful existence for many caught in this web.
-Kular
+Guns and force appears to rule the waves at present! There is no compassion or forgiveness in this brave new world. It is indeed sad that so many die each year and still the crime rate continues to climb. Better education; more integration; less flag waving; more diversification are probably needed! What do you think, Veer ji? Warm regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 12:08, 21 July 2011 (EDT)
-== BABA BANDA SINGH BAHADUR.doc ==
+== Worried  ==
-Bhai Sahib ji,
+Veer ji, {{SSA}}
+Many thanks for your message of concern. With the Lord's blessings everything is fine in our locality. Most of the looting and destruction is to businesses and their premises in a few isolated suburbs of London and to a lesser extent to a few other towns in England.
+Unfortunately, the pented-up pressure created by this long recession has found a leak in the disillusioned youth; this pressure is being released recklessly resulting in these riots. Today's demanding society has inflicted many wounds on the lives of its members and the youngsters have found this a way to vent their anger.
+Hopefully, the police will be out in larger numbers tonight and we hope that these rebels will realise that now there will be a bigger risk of arrest. So, maybe we will have less disturbance in the future. Many thanks for asking. Hope you too are keeping well. Warm regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 11:22, 9 August 2011 (EDT)
+== Problem, “Sain eeh bare Allah wale lok hun!”  and another ==
+Veer ji
+I think I am getting the same problem. I tried to do this reply on Sikhiwiki and it zapped me out. So I have prepared this on Wordpad and then posted it onto Sikhiwiki. I will send an email to the technical guys!
+Also, Veer ji many thanks for the links. I have read all the stories and they were very interesting; the one on Sufism was a little too detailed for me to follow fully but still enlightening. I will add more when I have a more stable system. Kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 21:08, 22 August 2011 (EDT)
+----
+Veer ji,
+The system now works for me. How is it for you?
-Many thanks for the warning; however I had already examined this file without? any perceivable harm to the system. I am hoping that your computer is being "extra cautious" which is not a bad thing in these challenging times! ''Is this my system protecting me?'' Yes, I think it is as *.doc files can corrupt systems; so to be cautious is to be vigilant and hopefully be safer. Rabb Rakha, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 23:07, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
+Warm regards, 18:08, 23 August 2011 (EDT)
-== enjoying ==
+== Tragedy in Delhi ==
-Sir ji , we all are fine and enjoying life with Almighty's grace.
+Veer ji, {{WKWF}}
---[[user:sarbjeet_1313me]] 15:03, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
+Many thanks for the links to the tragedy that has taken place in Delhi; it is deeply disturbing news. More innocent people killed by cowards who behave in such a degrading and inhumane manner. May they all go to hell forever - never to return to this earth!  Kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 18:27, 7 September 2011 (EDT)
-==Hello Sir==
+== UK woman who has newly learned of Jallianwala Bagh massacre ==
-how are you? Now i am struggler sir studies over.
-Was the place where Guru Nanak met with the Sidhus called Nanak Mata - at the time? Should this read (the place we now call Nanak Mata) or something else?
+Veer ji
-It was called Gorakh mata, but now it is nanakmata, moreover guru nanak have discourse with siddhas at various places like Nanakmata, jammu, Himachal(una), Tilganji(Tamil Nadu), Bal Gundai(Pakistan), Batala,( punjab)
+Many thanks for the link - it's a great story and a worthy Sikh cause. I will set-up a link so that more UK readers can sign the petition. Excellent find! Warm regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 14:43, 13 September 2011 (EDT)
-Could you add a translation of Sidh Gosati?
+== Faujah Singh, runner in the news ==
-it's already their veer ji check it.
+Veer ji
-and thank for improving article standard. Thx([[User:Hpt lucky|Lucky]] 12:34, 5 June 2010 (UTC))
+{{SSA}}. Hope all in well in your domain.
-== Chinese whisper ==
+Many thanks for the link and timely reminder; I have put a short piece in the news section on the main page with a link to the news about this great achievement as narrated at the BBC website.
-Bhai Sahib ji,
+Warm regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 20:31, 17 October 2011 (EDT)
-Sorry, I could not come back to you more quickly; but as you say the term is not regarded as offensive here in the UK - a term that defines a well known reality of life.
+== Fauja Singh - No Guinness book record ==
-I hope you had an enjoyable trip and that all is well with your life and family. We have had some excellent weather here and everyone is enjoying the beginning of summer
+Veer ji, {{SSA}}
-Many thanks for your message; kind regards. Raab Rakha, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 12:49, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
+Many thanks for the link. I will wait for a few more reports locally and then adds this sad development to the article.
-== Mahant Tirath Singh ji ==
+Kind regards, 17:45, 1 November 2011 (CDT)
-Bhai sahib ji,
+== a story of interest ==
-Many thanks for the messages. The above article is sorted; I am now reading the article "Bring back Jinnah’s Pakistan" at DAWN.com. Will comment on this later! Many thanks for the recommendation. Hope all is well with yourself and the family. Kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 21:31, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
+Veer ji,
-Excellent article! When one focusses on a sub-section of the wider community then one is becoming selfish and self-centred; that is why the cry of Khalistan never received a wider acceptance in the Sikh community. Nationalism when it is centred on a small sub-section of humanity is wrong and this just proves it; let us work to improve the whole of humanity and the whole of this world! Thanks again, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 21:44, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
+Many thanks for your message and the interesting link. I will create a news link when I get back to the UK. I am at present visiting India and as the broadband access here is restricted, I am unable to carry out my normal duties at Sikhiwiki.
-== Guru Har Gobind ==
+I am also concerned that you cannot edit articles at Sikhiwiki. That problem has been resolved and I would like to deal with this on my return. Please could you kindly give me a brief summary of the problems that you face in using our website.
-Bhai sahib ji,
+Kind regards,[[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 12:34, 22 November 2011 (CST)
-Many thanks for the message; I have had a quick check of the changes and they seem fine. I will spend a little more time tomorrow going through the whole article in more detail but I am sure that it is a marked improvement on the old version. Many thanks for the changes; kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 01:18, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
+== Problems editing ==
-== Professor Teja Singh ==
+Veer ji, {{SSA}}
-Bhai sahib ji,
+Many thanks for your detailed message. Luckily, after 3 years of trying, we were able to travel as a family to India; our 2 adult kids had never been to Punjab and finally, we were able to make it happen this year with the Lord's assistance.
-Many thanks for the excellent work in combining the two versions of the article. I have placed a redirect on the [[Principal Teja Singh]] article so that it automatically goes to the main article at [[Professor Teja Singh]]. I hope this will be fine with you. This material looks most appealing; many thanks for your excellent job in merging the two versions - a mammoth task, very well done. Balle balle, Bhai sahib ji! Kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 00:01, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
+It is a challenging country to visit but has a tremendous amount of history and hence worth doing if at all possible. I hope that one day you will be able to come to India; as you say virtual visiting is also getting very good and is less prone to the pollution, dirt and heavy traffic!
-== Nikki Haley ==
-Bhai Sahib ji,
+I had the same problem that you mention but eventually this has gone away. When the system asks for the two words to be entered, first refresh and get a new set of words by pressing the refresh button a few times to get an "easy" option of words; then enter the two words and the system will accept the answers.
-Kind greetings and many thanks for the interesting link; it is not surprising that slur is used in abundance in the political field. Politicians strive to find newer and newer ways to tarnish their opponents; most do not have any constructive ideas to offer and so revert to their normal state of flinging mud at the opposite party in the hope that some of the dirt will stick! Doesn't it make you feel good that we are spared those evil karmas!  Most appreciated; kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 00:20, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
+I found that the first words never worded correctly and only by pressing the 'refresh' button did I get the system to work. So please try this and see if you can overcome this hurdle. I think that once you have answered this correctly, the system should refrain from this security check. Please let me know how you get on.
-==Ani Rai==
+Many thanks and kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 04:24, 26 November 2011 (CST)
-Actually, what our historians do they exposed those people of history which were against gurus and attacked on tham or those who were gurmukhs. Sri Chand was against gurus and attacked on them. Lakhmi chand was against GUrmat, and stay away from gurmat. So other sons of GUrus stay away from gurmat are not well explained in History.
+----
+Veer ji,
-Mohri, Mohan, Datu, Dasu etc. these were not inline with gurmat, but ya Prithi chand was not gurmukh though he attacked on guru ghar so his description is bit more. If you analyze you will find these. Still if i will have description about them in any book i will surely add. ([[User:Paapi|paapi]] 09:35, 1 July 2010 (UTC))
+I have made a few changes to your account. Could you please try a small editing session to test if this has cured the system problem.
-==Padaraths==
+Many thanks and kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 13:21, 3 December 2011 (CST)
-Padarath means treasures not Blessing. <br>
-Nowhere is written Padarath as blessing. <br>
-if you do not believe me check srigranth.org etc. sites they too written the same. Moreover how can you cann padarath as blesssing. It's wrong meaning. Padarath is Treasure.
-The Four Treasures whom you are saying Blessings, which were previously recorded were DHARAM, ARTH, KAAM and MOKSHA. These were MANMAT'ICALLY defined and have no importance in Sikhi and thats why GURMAT gave new Treasures, defined it in appropriate way. Check Gurbani for more details.
+== Problems editing ==
-regarding Spiritual Powers, these powers defined in articles are not spiritual powers. Spiritual powers are truth, contentment, self conceit confidence etc.. these are worldly Powers. these are not related to Sikhism. Even NAnak rejected these worldly powers. The term is wrong that it's spirtual.
+Veer ji, {{SSA}}
-for eg. anima or lagima to become short or long, how it come spiritual? it's related to body, does spirit's size increase or decrease. So how come you say such things keep importance.
+Sorry to hear that the this problem continues; I too had to enter the Captcha words several times yesterday. Although this is annoying, I was able to continue after entering the two words. I have sent an email to the technical guys to see if they can disable this check. I keep you post on developments.
-now come to nau nidh, gurbani have two versions, where it is saying nau nidh means nine treasures it always cut this version and for your information NAU also means NEW, NEW TREASURE. Gurbani itself is New Treasure. So the articles related to Gurmat are not well defined and explained on Sikhiwiki. It takes time to do So.
+Please accept my sincere apologies for this inconvenience. Kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 09:06, 14 December 2011 (CST)
+----
-there are many concepts like
+Veer ji,
-* Irha Pingula Sukhmana
+Please try again as I am told by the technical folks that the security feature has been stood down to the "minimum" setting!
-* Satgur,Gur,GURU,Gurdev,SATGURU (all are different terms)
-* NAAM are of two types in gurbani, and what is naam?
-* ther are two ways god exisit Sun Samadh and Sahaj Samadh
-* How god creates Hukam
-* How Hukam works? how it works on Jarh(Non living) ior Chetan Living
-* How human is created
-* what is SPIRIT?
-* What is MANN (Mind)
-* Parbrahm, Pooran Brahm and Brahm differences
-etc etc etc. Sir there are many spiritual concepts which are yet to be covered on Sikiwiki or you can say real gurmat.
+Regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 13:24, 14 December 2011 (CST)
+----
-we are ust bind to vegetarianism, amrit ceremony, drug, lust, differences with other religion thats all. Gurbani have some other world too
+Veer ji, {{SSA}}
-* what is nirankar
+It is upsetting to read the message that you are not even able to insert a single comma to a page. It may be due to the change that I made a few days ago; I have removed you from the bot group as this does not appear to be helping us. I hoping this will help you to continue editing the website.
-* what is ik hove ta ugavey
-one more thing, if you really want essence of gurbani you have to learn Gurmukhi. It's Treasure itself the treasure of brahmgyan. So these articles are actually required
+As you know I too had this "captcha interruptions" every few edits and fortunately, I have some release from this at present due to complaints to the technical guys. Please see if the removal from the bot group has made any difference.
-Take Care. ([[User:Paapi|paapi]] 11:27, 4 July 2010 (UTC))
+Kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 09:01, 17 December 2011 (CST)
-== [[Mata Damodari]] and others ==
+----
-Bhai Sahib ji,
+Veer ji {{SSA}},
-Many thanks for the messages; sorry I did not reply earlier but the heatwave meant that it is too hot to work indoors! So have been spending more time out in the garden and helping Mum. I did note your comment on Pink Pony and took steps to stop the user posting any further such dangerous looking links on our website.
+I am terribly sorry that you continue to have this problem. However, it was good that you were able to get past the "Captcha security screen" but I cannot understand the logging out from the system - I have never had that. I still get the captcha screen now and then but there has been an improvement recently as I am able to do useful work without interruption.
-I have looked at the article at [[Mata Damodari]] and added a link to [[Guru Gobind Singh's wife or wives]] - the issue regarding the number of wives of Guru Hargobind and Guru Gobind Singh is not easy to resolve and I think the best way forward is to accept that there are two differing camps and mention this whenever this issue turns up on the website. The research done by Dr. Gurbaksh Singh that is mentioned at [[Guru Gobind Singh's wife or wives]] is not accepted by everyone; so we are unable to resolve this matter in a simple manner. Hopefully, in future someone with more vision and historical research skills will overcome this hurdle.
+I will send you an email asking for certain details and we will try and see if we can improve the situation. Please let me know if there are any improvements in the meantime.
-Who has the [Original] Granth? The original copy of the scripture, called Adi Granth, compiled and authenticated by Guru Arjan Dev still exists today and is kept at Kartarpur  which is a town about 15 km. north west of the city of Jalandhar, Punjab, India. (from wikipedia)
+Another option is to temporarily create a new user account - say "allenwalla2" or even "aw2" and see if that behaves any better. At least then we will know if it is related to the username or your ip address.
-The Adi Granth was next added to by [[Guru Gobind Singh]] at [[Damdama Sahib]] in about 1705 and became the present version called the [[Guru Granth Sahib]] in 1708 at [[Nanded]] when it was installed as the perpetual Guru.
+Warm regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 11:55, 19 December 2011 (CST)
-'''Avatars of God?'''  "Satguru" means "True Guru" and is a word used to refer to God as only He is the one who will prevail forever; however, sometimes the word is also used to refer to the [[Sikh Gurus]] to distinguish them from just "any guru or spiritual teacher". However, I do not believe that the Sikh Gurus should be referred to as "Avatars of God" or "incarnations of God"; it is accepted that we are all sparks of the Supreme Soul but I don't think that means that we are "Avatars of God"!
+== Sikhiwiki problems - urgent ==
-'''Plato’s musical code''' Interesting observations but as I am not too familiar with Greek/European historical literature, I did not absorb the finer points that were mentioned.
+Veer ji,
-Many thanks as always. Raab Rakha, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 21:46, 4 July 2010 (UTC)
+I tried to email you but the email bounced back. Please can you contact me by email at [email protected] - Many thanks. 12:48, 20 December 2011 (CST)
-==Article is not obscure==
+== problems editing  ==
-sir article is very clear that God will not giving any written text to anybody. You have to read FOUR type of VAANI(Banis), then i feel you would clear these all then you will get to know how quran was written.
-My belief is that it was either written by Muhammad but if he was illiterate then it was written by his companions or much later on.
+Veer ji,
-Like GUru Arjun Said DHUR KI BANI AYI (The bani came from ALLLAH) and i will start shouting ALLAH gave granth to Guru Arjun Dev then it would be my stupidity. Sikhs do not believe in these Miracles.
+Please refer to my email that I have sent to you just now. Many thanks and kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 18:08, 8 January 2012 (CST)
-([[User:Hpt lucky|Lucky]] 09:27, 6 July 2010 (UTC))
+==Thanks for the link==
-::Sir, i will explain you tomorrow, it's four types of bani not some stanzas. How Bani exists actually ([[User:Hpt lucky|Lucky]] 22:41, 6 July 2010 (UTC))
+Veer ji,
-==Wahegur Ji Ka Kahlsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh==
+Many thanks for the link. I have not read it yet but marked it for reading in the morning. Kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 19:17, 13 February 2012 (CST)
-four types of banis:
-* Para Bani : Come directly from god and we listen it from heart and mind, or you can say ears of inner soul.
+== A Bit of News ==
-* Pashanti bani: when someone discuss with you, you prepare to give answer...the time that bani is in your mouth is called pashanti.
-* Madhma Bani: it's medium, between sender and reciever, it's called Madhma Bani
-* Vaikhree Bani: that bani which you have listened carefully and which you could tell to some other is called vaikhree. Remember it covers LISTEN, not HEAR.
-Bani is subject of ear(listening) and ear of inner soul(heart or mind).
+Veer ji,
-now Granth or quran or bible is in which category you yourself tell???
+That is indeed very good news. Hopefully, it will lead to a better understanding among the different communities that make up the capital city. I will post a link to the article in the news section soon. Many thanks and kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 07:43, 17 May 2012 (CDT)
-What is GUrbani?
+==Another possible news post ==
-What is bani guru guru hai bani?
-if you will understood above concepts you will automatically know, what's actually bani is and how allah speaks bani?
+Veer ji, Many thanks for another interesting looking link. I will read this in more detail in the next few days and assess it at the next update of the news & interesting links. I am most grateful for your suggestions. Many thanks again and kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 20:27, 24 May 2012 (CDT)
+== Neighbors and the world  ==
-take care
+Veer ji, {{WKWF}}
-([[User:Hpt lucky|Lucky]] 12:12, 8 July 2010 (UTC))
-== Quran, an intriguing page and bhoot ==
+Many thanks again for the link; a sad development but one hopes that their deaths will not be in complete vain. It is obvious that the message of peace, unity and the brotherhood of human kind had not reached the killer. Despite the 500+ years, still many have not heard the loving words of Guru Nanak yet!
-Bhai sahib ji,
+Sorry to hear about your struggles with Sikhiwiki logons - I am able to work reliably now; at times I have worked for hours with no interruptions. It frequently presents a [http://www.google.com/recaptcha/captcha Captcha] screen at the first edit but then let me continue in peace! Do you think that the problem you are having with Sikhiwiki editing is fixable? Do you use Windows or Mac system? Please could you give me some background to the system that you use to see if we can get to the bottom of this issue?
-Many thanks for the recent messages; sorry for the delay in replying and in the "edit clashing" on the the article on Quran. I am sorry I caused you such inconvenience while making a trivial change myself - seems totally unfair to you; I hope it did not cause you too much difficulty in recreating your changes. Bhai sahib, if this happens in future, press the back button to get to your original changes on your browser - then by pressing "show changes" you can see what has changed and if it is just a small change as in this case then either just copy the whole article into a new window in the edit mode on the same article. I am sorry for "treading" on your edits!
+Many thanks; Kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 23:16, 11 August 2012 (CDT)
-We live to the east of London and Earl's Court tube station is about an hour's train journey from here.  You seem to be doing well with your gardening; as a beginner, in previous years I used to help my wife with her flowers and baskets but only a few vegs - however, this year we have spent more time growing veg and they seem to be doing well in this hot weather. Unfortunately, the frost did not disappear until early May and so everything is a little late despite the help of a small greenhouse. The only veg that we have consumed so far are iceberg lettuce, french beans, one cucumber, a few courgettes and marrow.  Tomatoes, chillies,  pepper, aubergines, etc are still many weeks from bearing any fruit!
+== I came from the dreamtime ==
-Living in an urban environment, we do not see any wild animals apart from foxes who are a nuisance to domestic pets but do not pose any problem to the garden crops - we have more problems with little insects like black and green flies, caterpillars, etc.
+Veer ji, {{WKWF}}
-Thank you asking; mum is keeping very well. As you know dad passed away nearly 20 months ago and the rest of the family now take it in turns to sleep at mum's every night. We are three brothers, all married and 1 sister who is a widow; all four of us are aged over 45 and have at least 2 adult children each; in fact mum has 10 grandchildren who are all over 18 and 1 great grand-daughter. As is the custom, the family of 18 is dedicated in their joint responsibility to cater for the needs of mum and it is great fun to be a part of this team of "like minded individuals" involved in this mission; together, we take mum to the local Gurdwara several times a week; the kids take her shopping, etc, etc. Unfortunately, this does limit the amount of "free time available" and so I find that at present I am unable to spent more time on the computer and on Sikhiwiki.
+Many thanks; an interesting nostalgic story about the good old bygone days. I am most grateful for the link. [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 21:25, 30 August 2012 (CDT)
-'''An Intriguing page''' An amazing article - clearly a chaotic situation where no one wants to take control and move in a positive direction; the people in power want to milk the country dry while the poor who are powerless do not know or understand which way to turn; a truly stricken ship!
-'''Bhoot''': Looking for a Gurmukhi word in the transliteration part is very difficult. I have used a couple of utilities (templates) which may make the task a little easier:
+==Bicycle, 21 Rupees and Lala Pindi memories==
-This adjacent link will give all the lines in the [[SGGS]] with the Gurmukhi word "ਭੂਤ" (Bhoot). Words containing "bhoot" as a subsection are also included in the list. However, I think you will be able to find this word more easily by using this link - The word "ਭੂਤ" is highlighted in red so it is just a matter of counting the correct sequence of words to find it: {{ssdd|ਭੂਤ}}
+Veer ji, {{WKWF}}
-Page 289 is listed at this link; 714 too; and so is 1202, etc
+Many thanks for another beautiful story. If only the human race had the same freedom that wild animals or birds have, we would not be confined by the iron bars called borders! Kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 19:47, 25 October 2012 (CDT)
-This link gives the meaning of the Gurmukhi word "ਭੂਤ" (Bhoot): {{sdd|ਭੂਤ}}
+== The death of a Maharaja - Indeed, ''"a hero's luster is never tarnished"''.==
-I hope this help. Raab Rakha, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 04:12, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
+Veer ji, {{WKWF}}
-PS: External link "spanner" blocked! - thanks for the note. [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 00:38, 16 July 2010 (UTC)
+Again, many thanks for sending me the link - it was a most interesting article on the actual death and the non-Sikhi practise of Sati by the Hindu queens of the Maharaja. I am saddened that no one even attempted to save the poor souls from this deeply evil custom.
-== Productive garden, unacceptable username and interesting articles ==
+Regarding the sewa during the the storm in New York and New Jersey - It is about time we have more Sikhs helping the needy and deserving in their local communities rather than serving langar to the full and satiated among themselves; great work and I hope we will see more of this type of sewa in the future. Kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 20:07, 12 November 2012 (CST)
-Bhai Sahib ji,
+== Acknowledgement - late but not never!==
+Veer ji, {{WKWF}}
-Many thanks for your detailed account of the baaj and your adventures with the garden. Seems like you live in a very pleasant countryside location with wild animals all around you. The problems of pests that you have are completely different from the ones we face here in an urban location. Still, the enjoyment is universal and the solutions to controlling the pests also point to using natural predators - in your case it is the hawk while in our case it is the humble ladybird and insects like that!
+Today, I was looking at the article on [[Harmandar Sahib]] and saw the beautiful plan that you had done when we were working on this article in 2008 and I thought I must acknowledge the great work that you put into this plan. I have (a bit late but as they say - ''better late than never!''....) included an acknowledgement at the bottom of this article on Harmandar Sahib [http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Harmandar_Sahib#Acknowledgements here].
-I hope you manage to find a solution to the problems with peats as I know how annoying it can be to see all the efforts go to ruin. Thanks also for alerting me to the unacceptable username - it has been blocked. I am going to read your suggested articles; I will come back later to let you have my reaction; most grateful for the recommendation. Raab rakha, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 22:12, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
+Sorry its a bit late; but your work is greatly appreciated and will proudly live on at this website. Kind regards and many thanks, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 05:24, 26 December 2012 (CST)
 ----
-Many thanks for the excellent article on global warming and the video of population growth and the importance of education. Kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 23:08, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
+{{SSA}}, Richard
-----
-Page with link with external website has been deleted and the user blocked. Thanks as always for keeping watch; much appreciated. Kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 22:37, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
+It certainly has been very useful and a great tool to get an instant idea of the location of the various important landmarks at this holy shrine. Many thanks, again for your excellent image/plan/map. Kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 18:31, 14 January 2013 (CST)
+== Edits on page [[Bibi Bhani]] ==
+Veer ji, {{SSA}}
+Many thanks for your kind message and concern. I hope too that your family members are all in good spirits and that your health is also holding up well.
+I have read the amended version of the above article and you have done a great job. As you mentioned, it was the old custom for fathers not to ask too much of their daughters especially after they had been married. However, [[Bibi Bhani]] chose to serve her father into his old age in defiance of the old custom.
+Many thanks for your continued help with this website. May the Almighty continue to bless you and assist you in every way possible. Kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 16:48, 20 January 2013 (CST)
+== No Apology, but a visit! He missed a most  valuable opportunity to fix this dreadful leaf in British history. ==
+Dear Veer ji, {{SSA}}
+Shame, he was not more bolder and braver; he missed an opportunity to fix a wrong done so many years ago. We will need a more stronger person to apologise for the terrible crime that took place here at the cost of the blood so many 1000's of innocent freedom lovers!
+Many thanks for the link. Kind regards and good wishes, 19:13, 20 February 2013 (CST)
+== Sikh yatrees arrive from India to attend Besakhi festival ==
+Dear Veer ji, {{SSA}}
+Many thanks for the link to an interesting story and the proof of continued lukewarm friendship between the neighbours. However, it seems that the cross-border controls remain the same as before and the volume of traffic has been kept to a minimum; 3000 is a very small number when you know that there are nearly 13,000,000 Sikhs in Punjab!  I am sure more would like to go if they could. Many thanks and kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 22:42, 10 April 2013 (CDT)
+== Quebec to ban Sikh symbols ==
+Dear brother, {{SSA}}
+Many thanks for the link. This is a great concern; a highly negative move by politician who have no concept of freedom or liberty; They are the ones who are responsible of the rise in crime and lawlessness and the decline in mortality that we observe around the world.
-==Krisna==
+The carrying of these symbols as we all know is a mandatory requirement of Sikhs and for a good reason that has been tried and tested through history. You will remember that when no one raised their voice when Guru Tegh Badadur was beheaded by the evil Mughals and all who were present "hid behind" the "common appearance" of the typical Indian of the time. The mandatory symbols were imposed by Guru Gobind Singh for an important reason - It is so that the Sikhs remember who and what they represent and stand for; that the defence of truth is above all and that they must not hid behind the "normal appearance" when a wrong takes place.
-Hello how are you
-) Hindus Krisna have form, in Gurmat Krisna is formless, so defination changes here
+I am most grateful to you for the link. Good health and kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 09:41, 26 August 2013 (CDT)
-) If in gurmat Krisna is formless then all the places related to krisna comes in Gurbani are formless too.
+== Sikhs being mistaken as Muslims: Blue Bloods - Episode: Mistaken Identity S4 Ep10 (41:31)  ==
-) Ram is one which speaks in all and krisna is one which is present in all. When person listens to himself(Mann) it is acting acc. to krisna, we have to become RAMA to attain god, rama is inner soul.
+Dear Bhai Sahib ji
-) Now what is Formless Krisna?
+Many thanks for the message.
-) Mann(Attentions, soul) is attributed as Black in gurbani and Krisna is black too, but Ram is not attributed as black but it is attributed as present in Light not Dark.
+Unfortunately, I am unable to watch the video here in the UK probably because it will be aired on a paid TV channel here and so cannot be seen on youtube or other such 'free' media.
-The Dark part of our soul is attributed as krisna and light part is attributed as RAMA.
+However, I was able to watch the beginning as a teaser and I get a general picture of the plot. I believe that I can understand what you mean when you point to the different time marks in the video. I agree that it is a healthy development which hopefully will bring awareness to the general masses about the different communities that form this world!
-Krisna is always in MANMATT, all vices are related to Krisna.
+Many thanks for highlighting this TV show. Lets hope that we have more of this coming along in the near future.
-We have two parts in ourself KRISHNA and RAMA. Positive is RAMA and Negative is krishna, but if these both two are one then the next step is to get god. First we have to finish negativity from ourself and work positively as our RAMA guided us from inside.
+Kind regards and the best of health. [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 11:07, 20 December 2013 (CST)
-Gurbani says there are MANY KRISHNAS and there are MANY RAMAS too. HOW? the answer is lying their in your previous post.
+== Khalsa Diwan Sikh Temple ==
-Sabey GHat Ram boley (Ram Speaks in every one and Krisna is present in everyone)
+Bhai Sahib ji,  {{SSA}}
-____________
+Many thanks for your very thoughtful message. I have updated the page [[Khalsa Diwan Sikh Temple]] with a bit more data from Wikipedia but not added anything about the recent discovery of the US Navy ANM66 bomb. Please feel free to add this to the page as it will help make the page even more informative.
-Now HIndus have made FORMS of krishnas and ramas, they made their seperate places brindaban and mathura and ayodhya etc. and they say that both are one, but they are not able to prove that both are one as both of their Demi Gods have seperate philosphy too.
+The Guru's blessings, kind regards and many thanks again, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 20:44, 9 February 2014 (CST)
-Gurmat proved it how both are one. Gurmat have given all definations which were previously you can say either distorted or was not clear. It's spiritual Granth, the story of inside.
+== Baenti ==
-hope you understand my points better now, due to bad article writing skills, that article confused you.
+Waheguru ji ka khalsa
+Waheguru ji ki fateh
-_________________
+Waheguruji dass baenti krna chahunda hai ki jo aap ji ne Hari Singh Nalwa di photo upload keeti hoyi hai, ki uss nu dass t-shirt design layi use kar sakda hai?
-about hindus not understanding concept of their own religion i mean to say that they have mythology not history, mythology was made to tell something not to make FORMS and start undesrtanding them, but as mention in our granth that this IDOL worship business started because Priests started selling the religion. Go and Search in Vedas they to accept the fact that God is formless, Krishna stories were spoiled and were remade by devotees. YOu can read Namdev's bani to understand krishna better who lived whole life in Krishna Devotees.
+== OK, please include a credit to Sikhwiki ==
-take care
+OK
-([[User:Hpt lucky|Lucky]] 14:35, 25 July 2010 (UTC))