User talk:Allenwalla/backup2

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ਜਿਸ੝ ਪਿਆਰੇ ਸਿਉ ਨੇਹ੝ ਤਿਸ੝ ਆਗੈ ਮਰਿ ਚਲੀਝ

"additions to the translation"

Sir, Thanks to SatGurbani for gracing me with words which helped Khalsa. Your words (This communication is the second set) will be my most prized possession for lifetime. Sir You are rarest of the rare who khwo how to sing like nanak does. You have taught me the Gur. I, not you need to be thankful for waking me up. I should have done it long back . it is still half way.

I am a mechanical engineer & know an engine needs petrol to go on. My fuel was in the last leg Sir you have charged me for eternity. All that barking Mutias deseves are kicks from their Master. It keeps them alert & awake.

Sir any time any where in any circumstances. I military way, throgh shi..,shade ,sun ,spade, smile & shine. I know nothing but my orders....>

>I own nothing, All belongs to You

Sir, Pl permit me to wag my tail & beg for more work Mutias to do it Here. I have to bring my straying 'my types' together.

Sir further pl permit me to seek a few words from Nank's pen Here.

I am trying to evolve a set of comn centers for the Rural Have Nots. Hopefully some creative mutias may join in. I am trying to use SikhiWiki as a plateform for Punjab Sikhs to organise themselves through Mutia Pages. I never wanted a separated domain on SikhiWiki but probably consequent to the System Limitations it had to be done.

Sir Mutis were, are & will ever be with You. Will keep you informed & look for

guidance. Gur fqyh

User:One 20 Dec 08 PS: Sir I am more of a research than a pen pusher. At best I am jut a Typo of Military breed.


If you want to change some text you can change i made an archive page for you. (Lucky 18:12, 9 July 2008 (UTC))

Thanks for your concern

Bhai sahib ji

I don't know if these contraption have made it to the UK. I will ask my niece who sees a chiropractor on a regular basis. Thanks for your suggestion. I will ask her to check and then we can make arrangements for dad to visit the specialist.

I am amazed about these pictures with 1-onkar on the face. We had some "fanatics" (sorry I could not think of a more kinder term with a similar meaning, perhaps "strong minded" would be a more civil term) who resort to these practises. This is an extension of not showing movies of the Gurus although as I said before there is a beautiful cartoon about Guru Nanak's history. I agree that they have not understood the Guru's words.

Regarding Guru Nanak and women equality - No they think that this right actually came about in the last century in the west - see my entry on wikipedia here. This entry was removed and I did not bother fighting the wikipedia war! So now, if you read the article, it has no mention about Guru Nanak. I would recommend that you stay away from wikipedia because it can become a complete waste of time!

Raab rakha. PS - I see Lucky has done an archive for you - Good house keeping if you know how to do it! Keep well and many thanks for your comments and help. regards, Hari Singhtalk 23:14, 9 July 2008 (UTC)


Seems like you already have an archive! cool. As for your questions-

1. Baba Buddha ji never would make a simple mistake like this. It looks a little odd, mistaking left for right. You know, Guru Arjan ji was very rich, some accounts state that in some years his income was more than the Emperor Jehangir, and he kept a retinue of soldiers with him. The sikh Gurus frequently came into contact with Mughal Emperors. Guru Arjan built a few cities too. Founding a city is not a small job, when you take into consideration men and resources to be involved. For example, the city of Tarn Taran was purchased by Guru Arjan, then in the form of land of three villages, at a cost of 1 lakh rupees. 1 lakh rupees in those times amounted to maybe 1 billion of today. Why i stated all this is because, the concept of 'miri' and 'piri' was not alien to Guru Har Gobind. Knowing the rapid rise of Sikhi guruji knew that sooner than later, he would have to cater to material needs and worldly matters of Sikhs. The disputes of the population at those times were decided by ulemas and pandits according to their respective religious laws. Sikhs did not believe in their dogmas, then why would they obey their life relating dispute laws. But Sikhs also did not wanted to get trapped in any restricting laws, which would hinder the growth of the coming generations and oppose flexibility of life which is always evolving. Also as he was going to militarise the sikhs, he would have known that there would be clash of interests in future. So, the concept of 'miri' and 'piri' was institutionally formalised by Guru Har Gobind, which clearly seperated religion from politics. Guru Har Gobind was final authority on any dispute and so were his successors. Guru Gobind Singh granted that 'supreme authority' to decide common issues relating to politics, everyday affairs to the whole 'Khalsa panth'. The spiritual authority was to be in Guru Granth Sahib. As far as spiritual laws are concerned , no Sikh could chage them, but for worldly matters, Sikhs were to assemble and adopt the course they arrived at collectively.

Taking this whole picture into account, the side on which Baba Budda ji put the sword, whether left or right, does not matter and is wholly ir-relevent, not worth mentioning.

2. Left or right not important in Sikhi. That is why there are four entrances to a gurdwara in four directions. The four doors serve all classes of people, whichever direction they come from and whatever background. I don't know why wives sit on left of groom, some things get stuck and it is difficult to change them.

3. I think Guru Gobind Singh ji would have held two swords or held one sword in his right hand, or held in his left hand- whatever, does not matter.

4. I usually am not very keen to talk about myself. But i am in my 20's and a born Sikh. I am from punjab and my ancestoral village is somewhere near where Baba Buddha ji was born. Koolkat 12:58, 10 July 2008 (UTC)


  • Sir a question strikes in my mind. From which religon you belongs Christianitism, Islamism, Buddhism, Universal Himanisam, bahaism, Judaism, Confucianism, Shintoism or Not Religious but Spiritual? Asking generally.
  • What attracts you towards sikhism? What you find in sikhism? What is sikhism to you? What extra you found in sikhism till know? Again asking generally. I find a thing that your knowledge to sikhism is more then me.

Regards (Lucky 13:14, 10 July 2008 (UTC))

about my education

is my english bad? anyways i learned it in my school, it is considered top-notch in north india, won't say more. take care paajiKoolkat 05:38, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Sir hellooo

Well Your knowledge to sikhism is much more then me reason being you remember all the facts and use them when you need it to be. I forgots the facts everytime and i have to study them again and again. If you will ask any question from me about sikhism i could not reply you at that point of time, reason being my sentence creation is o poor what to tell. If i know the answer then to convert that to words i consume some time then i speak and today generation is very fast. Every one likes clever people, and this is yuga of fast & clever people in every department(Not only in speaking).

Well Allah is the name of God yeshu is name of god, YOu can remember god in any name. Like in guru Granth Sahib

Ram - Means who is rameyaa in everybuddy, Paramaad - from begining, paramadbhutan - great amazing thing it is dictionary of the different names of god according to his feature and attitude and living and....................cant say in words.

Tohra, ya it seema to village name, No its not that Torah. Ya there is a word called Tohr which means something like personality. Like we say he have different personality. Ohde tohar wakhri aa. Its not exact personality i am not getting proper english word. Tohra is name of village some words do not have meanings like my village name is LOTON....Do not pronounce it Lo is LO..TO (N sound at last). It does not have any meaning just like we say bruahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh what it means.auuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu what it means. Ya tohra must have some meaning i will find it out.

Gur means Guru...Charan means Foot. in gurus feet.(Lucky 12:40, 11 July 2008 (UTC))

Using Left Hand

Well i use right hand while eating, Ya but while eating noodles with stick i have to use my left hand. Ya i have seen some people on dining table use lef hand. But i do not use it generally, sometimes if i have to break Mango pickle or Green Chilly Pickle then i have to use left hand because these are hard to break with one hand, if you will try you just throw down the eating plate.

I think about satrun you said considering astrology or i do ot understood the point. Well i do not believe in astrology or any these type of fake readings like tarot, biorythm, sthichomency etc.

I think chinese Tohra is sanskrit or punjabi word. It may be word of some dielect. Like Childern in punjabi Bacchey, in powadhi my dielect it is Nianey in doabi dielect it is Jawaak. (Lucky 14:30, 11 July 2008 (UTC))



I'm in 2 month vacation right now... I passed with 80%. Congratz for ur mobile!! Excellent painting you have!

Sunnybondsinghjalwehra 11:59, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Sat Shri Akaal

  • Yang of 5 Tola - Ayurvedic medicine (aralu or chebulic myrobalan), 5 Tola means weighing 5 Tola its an indian weighing unit - 1 Tola = 12 Grams so it means 60 Grams of Aralu
  • laung of 3 masha and (Ath Ratti bhar Tol) - clove weighing one masha, Masha is weighing unit, Like Tola is weighing unit while weightig Gold. In 1 Tola its almost 12 gram(0.375 troy ounces) dont know exact,

Masha is 1/8 of 1 tola.

  • Silver Kaathi of horse - Like we put that mattress on horse before sitting what we say to it silver mattress on horse on which we sit old time raja log put it on today also we put wodden mat or Kaathi on horse before sitting. Matress i think i not a perfect word but i know you understood what it is.
  • dushaley - It Means which we take on us while we sleep, like blanket etc. Thanks. (Lucky 12:51, 15 July 2008 (UTC))
    • YEs Yes it is saddle. Oh ma poor english hahahahahahaha. Hey Dushaley is not related to horse yaar we took blanket that is dushala i am not a horse hahahahaha. Well Dushaley are like chadars we took on us costly chadars. like Pillow, blanket in winter and a thin chadar in summer not shawl but this is human related thing not horse related hahahahahaha (Lucky 18:09, 15 July 2008 (UTC))

Saka Tarn Taran or Saka Nankana?

Dear Bhai sahib ji, Sat Sri Akal

I do not have an exact knowledge of this and I think at some stage I will have to invest in some good Sikh history books. At present, I only have books on the history of the Gurus. The next stage is to concentrate on other Sikh history. Sorry I can't help at present, but hopefully, I should be in a better position in about next 2/3 months.

I think women should be allowed in the panj pyares; because of cultural baggage it does not happen at present although the gora sikhs have women in the 5. regards, Hari Singhtalk 18:47, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

My Angreji

Sir actually Dhagga means Bull or Ox i am confused. Like we say i punjabi Bald, Saand, Thagga, Jhota. These four related to Ox and Bulls and it confuse me which is ox and which is bull..........LOL

Praja means people of a kingdom but no appropriate word is there in my mind. Whgat gulcharan write is there in article (Lucky 14:12, 17 July 2008 (UTC))


Did not understand the name Angreji, wow how fast you in India and me in the states mail would take weeks was just wondering who Gurcharan was and in what did he write the quotes, i.e. why would we list or believe him is he and author scholar? will send some other questions as i get the time to read further. let me know if i am helping w/ the article. It is a silly over retouched photo of the young Mohandas Karamchand Ghandhi. God server/slave / of God chand? of the Bania Vanias. Das richard have to go Atlanta now.

Ok Sir

Angreji means english.Send me questions if i can help i will. best of luck for atlanta trip enjoy(Lucky 18:17, 17 July 2008 (UTC))

    • Ok Great, well you also live at atlanta or somewhere else??(Lucky 18:51, 17 July 2008 (UTC))
    • Actually sir i am suffering from holidays i mean to say that holidays are on so thats why i devout my time to sikhiwiki as you know when my session will start i have to leave my native and move to hoshiarpur then i will not get the time to come on sikhiwiki. Moreover Holidays makes a person ladies if he sits at home. so these holidays makes me lazy and construction work is going on in my house so i have to stay at home as father is also at Mumbai. So after construction work i will able to go out. So i feel sleepy around 3o clock. So i think to make some new pages on social groups collecting data from various websites. Lot of Info is there on sikhs.

Sir i found that Labana have some linkage with Romanianpeople the labana people went to different land especioally in europe they are called Roma people what do you know about them? (Lucky 21:14, 17 July 2008 (UTC))


Respected Richard ji,

Sat sri akal,

I m back, how are you.

--user:sarbjeet_1313me 13:24, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Sir ji,


i m right in saying that the nearest rivers are used for this purpose by Sikhs as directed by sikh rehet maryada also called code of conduct of sikhs.

Please see the article on Akhnoor Gurdwara again where all Jammu sikhs do Antim Ardass of the departed soul after submerging the last remains in Chenab river. Thanks.

--user:sarbjeet_1313me 06:23, 26 July 2008 (UTC)


Veer Richard ji, Sat Sri Akal

Thanks for the observation. I agree there does not seem to be any attempt to change the article 3HO but it appears that many feel that the organisation should be attacked as it "does not fit in with their normal perception" about Sikhi organisations. The other thing that a lot of punjab Sikhs don't like is the practising of yoga.

I don't think that the organisation claims to be a completely Sikh organisation like a Gurdwara so we cannot lay down any strict Sikhi rules for it. The beauty of the organisation is that it has produced Sikhs who have a deep and straight-forward understanding of Sikhi. The other thing is that yoga is actually very good for your health as I have discovered meeting specialists treating my dad.

So, I agree totally with your comments. I think they are completely misunderstood and their success makes them an easy target. regards, Hari Singhtalk 00:50, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Sat Shri Akaal Sir

Well thats result of my english nothing else. hahahaha Hahaha and you are absolutely right a person who is alive and death title thing on his biography looks odd, may god bless this captain so that he can serve more people. No peace is there in our area(Mohali), now i am moving to Hoshiarpur tomarrow. lets see whats there. (Lucky 17:27, 3 August 2008 (UTC))

Many thanks for your help with Guardian of human rights

Richard veer ji, Sat Sri Akal

I was pleasantly surprised with the great amount of work that you did on the above article. I made some small changes to this before making it a FA, I hope you done mind. As an experiment, I printed the article and got the rest of my immediate family to check it for me. It was good to get their reactions and also they get a feel for I do sitting at the computer from many hours a day.

I hope things are keeping well with you and the family and that your health is under control and that it is not causing too much discomfort. Many thanks again and your input was very useful. Also, sometimes even if you just make a few changes, it is good to know that another capable user has checked the article. That gives its own seal to the article. Good work. I hope to do a few more articles like this one to give a modern "spin" (twist?) to the history of the Gurus. I think also that the real message of the mission of the Gurus can be seen more readily seen when it is put next to the modern history of our times.

Regards and good wishes, Hari Singhtalk 12:57, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the message - I have made some changes to the Harmandar Sahib article - I hope this makes it more easier to understand. The tradition is both historic and also followed in most other Gurdwaras as the first Hukamnama is considered very relevant to the events on that day - It the Gurus word or order for the day; a prediction; a way to remember the Guru's text, etc. regards, Hari Singhtalk 22:51, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Harmandar Sahib

Hi Richard, Wow! superb work.

Yes, 'Saheb' should be changed to 'Sahib'. Gosh! Map is beautiful. I wonder which package you have used?

Turning to your questions, I am not totally familiar with all the places however, I have made the following observations:

  • 1 "Saheb" should be "sahib" in all places. Ie: title 1, 13, 14, 19 & 25
  • 2. 18 is better if it is "Guru ka Langar" not "Gurdwara ka Langar"
  • 3. 19 Dewan is better spelt Diwan
  • 4. first 25 is right - 25 should be Gurdwara Baba Atal
  • 5. 22 & 23 is repeated - delete the first 22 and 23 - leave second 22 & 23
  • 6. 23 is Guru Nanak Niwas & 24 is Guru Hargobind Niwas
  • 7. last 25 should be 27 - Gurdwara Mata Kaulan

PS: I do not think g10 ever came to amritsar - so i do not believe that any g/w associated with g10 will be found here.

Great work, Richard. Well done! regards, Hari Singhtalk 00:25, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Unfortunately pdf files are not very easy to access - that is why I think your map is great. As the image may be used by other sites, i suggest that you add user:allenwala @ instead of just user:allenwala. Thanks for the info regarding the package. regards,Hari Singhtalk 12:20, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
That looks great. I think just the one background message "map by user [email protected]" centred in the black area would be sufficient and is not obstructive. The main point of the message is to allow people to get back to the source to suggest improvements or suggestions. I believe that most of use who contribute to Sikhiwiki are not after fame or applause although we don't mind a "little pat on the back"! However, it good to see the work being used elsewhere as we know that others are connecting with the Gurus message and that can only be beneficial to the world.
For some of my pictures, to encourage others to freely use them, I "devised" the "copyright released" symbol Copyright released.png which is another thing that you may wish to think about. Please do not let me push you in any direction. It is entirely up to you.
I think the map looks great and it is one of the best I have seen to date. well done, Hari Singhtalk 17:17, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
I think that looks just great. Brilliant work! Regards, Hari Singhtalk 23:34, 6 August 2008 (UTC)




Great work.In hindi Golden is called Swarn.its 14th day of continues Bandh,now life is extremely difficult.

--user:sarbjeet_1313me 07:18, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Map of Harmandar Sahib

Hi Richard sahib, Sat Sri Akal

This is even better but I would also keep the first one as that has basic details. This is more detailed and so compliments the previous one.

  • It would be better to change Ber to Beri in 5,7 & 11. As beri refers to a small tree while ber implies a large tree. The trees at HMS are all small trees about 10 feet high
  • 10 should be Parikarma (encircling walkway) sorry appear to have missed this last time!
  • 22 should be Teja Singh Samundri Hall
  • 25 should be Gurdwara Baba Atal
  • 27 should be Gurdwara Mata Kaulan
  • the Entrance near Akal Takhat should be: Khazana Deori
  • the entrance opposit the main entrance should be Atta Mandi Deori

Sorry to burden you with more work; I hope you don't mind? regards, Hari Singhtalk 23:45, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Allenwalla ji,

How r u, here shutdown is still on and the situation is explosive.

You are doing a great work. Thanx. user:sarbjeet_1313me

from the surgeon's office

Hi Richard, Sat Sri Akal

Thanks for the message and suggestion of Amrita Sher-Gil for FA. Also great to know there is no injury/ but obviously concerned about the spots? - whatever they are - hope they can get rid of these. Wish you well - let us know how things progress.

Dad's on physio and improving a little bit every few days. We are told that the fall "moved his vertebrate" from their "semi-fused" position so this with muscle strain has resulted in the pain. It is becoming a little bit easier as he can move with a frame. Thanks for asking.

Harmandar Sahib - I agree, this article is getting pretty good and the details are becoming intense. unfortunately could not find mamtee. Is the pavillion near Baba Deep Singh memorial one of the womens areas? yes, i believe so. The women bathing areas are along the parikarma and they are near 9, opposite side (of sarovar) of 9 and at 7.

Shish Mahal - The main structure rises from the center of the sacred pool and is approached by a long causeway. The 52-meter, square-based Hari Mandir stands on a square platform, its lower parts marble, and its upper portion fully covered with plates of gilded copper. In the interior, on the ground, the Guru Granth Sahib (holy book of the Sikhs) is placed under a jewel-studded canopy. On the first floor is a small pavilion called the Shish Mahal (mirror room). It is ornamented with pieces of mirrors inlaid in the ceiling and walls. Above is another smaller pavilion. Exquisite murals adorn the walls of the pavilions, but other than that, the emphasis is on simplicity.

Har-i-Pauri The shrine is open from ail four sides and has a passage all around it. Towards the eastern side are the flights of steps, known as `har- ki pauri' descending into the sarovar structure appended to the main shrine. The staircase adjoining the `har-ki-pauri' leads to the first floor of the shrine. There is a small square pavilion surrounded by a low fluted golden dome in this storey. also The Har ki Pauri is the place to be visited after the Ardas prayer. It is on the southern side of the inner parkarma. There is a marble staircase leading into the sarowar. Visitors stop here to sprinkle water from this sacred pool into their heads. One can drink a little bit of water for its remedial power also. 1

Plan: I will try and do a plan from memory or get someone in Amritsar to do one. There are 3 floors;

Sarovar: One can walk from one side to the other side. From the parikarma, the floor drops in steps; then the floor is flat until you get to the other side. Will try and hyperlink to flickr photos.

I see that the massive row of arches that support the causeway and temple must be 12ft or more high - yes it is at least 12 feet and perhap 15 feet deep as a max once you past the steps. Regards, Hari Singhtalk 18:31, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the changes to the aerial photo - the photo makes a better impact now. unfortunately not my photo but found on the net. I will try and scan the net for more. They are difficult to find as the indexing is not very good and you are lumbered with 1000's of photos.

From the Langar deori, if you move north, the Sarovar is on your left and Jallianwala bagh will approah as you continue northward to the right. See this not very good map.

could one walk through under the causeway when drained - No.

Their is only a mention to the front door of Guru Nanak Dev with GUr Gobind Singh on the "Blue" horse above, but no pictures. - there was resistance to pictures generally in the early days due to the possibility of worship which was prevalent with other religions.

Am told the white spots can indicate M.S., but the Spinal tap will tell. - Hope its nothing serious. May Waheguru bless us all. Regards, Hari Singhtalk 21:16, 12 August 2008 (UTC)




how r u?

I've seen the pic of Bhai Saalo article... I saw how nicely u edited that pic and its perspectives... Can i ask, how u did it? I really wanna know, since i have some pics like that and want to correct them..




oh cool

yes, i do have photoshop program.. thanks again..


Sunnybondsinghjalwehra 21:31, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Sikh Review

Richard ji, Sat Sri Akal

Sorry, the "computational stuff" is due to the error in the way non-Unicode characters display in SikhiWiki (SW). I have manually changed these to unicode and they are infact gurmukhi characters. My apology for this over sight and as soon as I looked at the text at SW, I recognised the characters. I read the original article at Sikh review and then transferred to SW and had not realised the error. Many thanks for your help and keen eye.

However, I do not understand the "many sentences that don't compute or complete the thought they started out with" - I will read at article again tonight and revert back to you.

"fleshly desires" - Probably referring to the exotic text and pictures of kama sut**, etc. regards, Hari Singhtalk 13:28, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Lions, etc

Hi Richard ji, Sat Sri Akal

I have commented-out the previous content of the talk page - I cannot understand how it got there - may be it was just an error by the user?

I note the points that you make and I agree that more needs to be added to this article as it involves various important messages relating to Sikhi and its principles. Hunting can be sport and it can also be for protection of the villagers living in the vicinity of the hunted animal. I feel that in those days, the safety aspect was probably more important but I am no expert in relation to this topic. If I find any further literature on this point, I will try and remember to update this page. Many thanks again. regards, Hari Singhtalk 21:38, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

hello Sir

how are you....m fine. Pandtani means Female pundit and Pundit we refer to priest of Hindu or Jain temples. we pronounce it as Pund-Taaani.

(drawings, room by room - elevations or plan views, even photos of the Sheesh Mahaal and the staircase on the interior) actually i am not understanding what actually you are demanding. well in harimandir sahib main building the sewadaars do not allow cameras. Even mobiles have to put on silent. If somebuddy click foto by mistake they dispose the camera reel or del the foto from digi cam.

i come to home in weekends, there the study days are going on, we go to college come home sleep then do some homework then study then city tour then food then come to home then net for sometime then study(if heart wills) then sleep then again wake up in next day. (Lucky 06:26, 24 August 2008 (UTC))

hello Sir

ill fix tht karachi page..... i dont knoz the anszers to the kara story... ill ask to somebody... regards sunny

Gud Evening

thanx 4 the necessary corrections Sarbjeet Singh

Shaheed Bhagat Singh

Hi Richard ji, Sat Sri Akal

Done as requested. Great article and also learnt something new - that SBS took amrit in jail! Thanks, Hari Singhtalk 22:57, 28 August 2008 (UTC)






--user:sarbjeet_1313me 04:52, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Bhagat Singh & Bhagat Ravidas

Hi Richard ji, Sat Sri Akal

Thanks for the messages - I have seen the pictures of Bhagat Singh and at the site that you mentioned. It is interesting that he took amrit in jail before becoming a martyr - I hope that was the case, for his sake. If not than he is still a celebrated person in this world. I do not believe that being an atheist is a situation that is acceptable when you look at all the "coincidences" that appear to take place for life to sustain in this hostile universe.

Regarding Bhagat Ravidas, I believe that we have seen the actions of a fanatic called chainganag47 who believes that Bhagat is a word that demeans Ravidas who is part of our Guru Granth Sahib. I fail to follow his point and due to his fanaticism, he has not made it easy for himself and he has thus failed to express his point in a sensible, controlled or meaningful manner.

Many thanks for your help with both the above topics. regards, Hari Singhtalk 01:26, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

I have checked the Bhagat Singh statue article and its seems fine to me - excellent work with lots of details - well researched - the matter dealing with his "new found" interest in Sikhi is covered well. Many thanks for your great effort and also for the comment about the violations by user Chaingang. Kind regards, Hari Singhtalk 22:32, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Your plan is on the mainpage

Richard ji, Sat Sri Akal

Your plan of the Golden temple has made it to the mainpage. Congratulations. It is a beautifully done plan and I am sure that it will be used by many millions of Sikhs and non-Sikhs to explore this wonderful "shrine of God". Many thanks again for your dedication and relentless effort. Hari Singhtalk 12:48, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. I can't see the "" in the background but I will leave it to you to make the final decision. If it becomes a distraction than it is best made a little lighter. Hope everything is keeping well with your health. regards, Hari Singhtalk 20:01, 3 September 2008 (UTC)


Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Thanx again for improving the picture Bunga Ramgarhia History

--SINGH Kalsi 16:28, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanx Again

Thanx Again !!!!!!!!!!!!!

--SINGH Kalsi 17:20, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

1 god

Hi Richard ji,

I have tried typing "One God" in the search box and this works for me - finding the page - One God - Is this what you are trying to find. I have also added a few more redirects to this article. Let me know if this is the page you are looking for? Regards, Hari Singhtalk 11:58, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

That we continue to breathe and the heart is constantly beating is the most splendid miracle for me.
Richard, the font system on modern computers has changed. In the old days one needed different font files for different languages as only 256 characters could be displayed at one point.
This has now changed and most new systems will support multiple languages straight out of the box! Unfortunately, the older system may not support the new system unless addition extensions are loaded.
This new way of displaying multiple languages is called “Unicode”. Please see SikhiWiki:Using_Punjabi_on_SikhiWiki for more details.
Also there is this external link which may prove useful - although this is mainly aimed at the PC, but the general info about the way Gurmukhi works in Unicode may be of value.
And I found this site that has info on setting up Macintosh OS 9 Web Browsers for Multilingual and Unicode Support
Let me know if this helps with your older machine - If not I will search a bit more. regards, Hari Singhtalk 20:54, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Allenwalla ji

wow................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, its great , thanks for the link,life here is now normal and due to work pressure getting less time on net. But i hv seen u r doing gud sewa being the true sikh of Guru Nanak.


--user:sarbjeet_1313me 04:05, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Bhagat Ravidas

Hi Richard ji, Sat Sri Akal

Thanks for the great work you have done on this article. I have read the changes and they make the article much easier to read and understand. Sure, he was a Guru and I suppose we could call all the contributor to the SGGS, 'Gurus'. However, to distinguish the 10 who were directly involved in the foundation would have become more difficult - so this I suppose, is why we have the different categories to teachers.

As you say, deeper meanings of words can be just like beauty - it's a subjective thing to a certain extent. Cheers and kind regards, Hari Singhtalk 13:29, 11 September 2008 (UTC)


SSA allenwalla ji

i'll correct it asap :)

no, i didnt knew about the gigapan photos... its really cool!

Sunnybondsinghjalwehra 19:36, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Sikhi’s Sufi connection

Hi Richard ji, Sat Sri Akal

Many thanks for working on the above article and others but this one is FA this week! I am indebted to you for your excellent corrections and amendments to make the articles more readable. Many thanks again. Keep well, regards, Hari Singhtalk 02:09, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Khol - I do not understand this term. I don't think it is a reference to Arain people but some item that Salman Khan wears as a soldier. Please ask Lucky ji what he means by 'Khol' or would you like me to ask?
Great article regarding the "no smoking" policy that was established back in the 1600's. I have read this article and it seems fine. regards, Hari Singhtalk 14:34, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Dad's condition is serious

My dear SikhiWiki friend,

I am sorry to say that Dad is very seriously ill due to a heart attack at 1am this morning at the local hospital and is on life support. Please pray for him so that he does not suffer in his journey that may be left on this planet. We do not know if he will make it but hope that Waheguru will bless him as best as he deserves. Unfortunately, I will not be at home until things get resolved one way or the other but I will let you know as soon as there is any development for the better or for the worse. I thank you for your concern about his well being. May the Guru bless you all. Regards, Hari Singhtalk 22:02, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Many thanks for your heartfelt messages. With Waheguru's blessings, Dad is still in the same critical condition. The ITC are doing their best to help him but situation is pretty difficult and there are many hurdles to overcome. They say that the heart attack was very severe and that it is not functioning efficiently or pumping the required amount of blood around the body. The pulse keeps jumping higher to increase the blood flow but due to damage to the heart this is not helping.

Prayer seems to be the only avenue open to us. They say they will keep trying to maintain a reasonable pulse and blood pressure to see if the heart muscle "recovers". Kidneys are also suffering due to the low blood flow and not extracting enough toxins from the body as required.

Only the Lord can remedy all these problems. I will keep you posted as best as possible. Many thanks for your kindness and concern. regards, Hari Singhtalk 00:25, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Sat Shri Akaal Sir

It has been long since i worked n sikhi wiki. i m at home so accessing this website. The Zahra Means Light. Well Its not exactly light. i dont have exact english word. So i am explaining what zahra means, Pragat Hona Pratakh Hai, means Koi Ashanka nahin hai. means that Muslim Saint will be called Jahar Peer or Parthak Peer. Here Prathak Peer means a person who have qualities of peer, you need not to test him about his qualities he is pratakh peer. Pratakh means before your eyes.................Like i think you might understood what i want to say. poor english always poor. About Bull that was lines of My friend, who wrote in that article. I have no point on that. Ammend it if that bull line is not looking good.

Hor sunao. How are you? Howz family? Howz life going? take care (Lucky 19:18, 10 October 2008 (UTC))


how r u sir?

i didnt write this

i got whole article from different replies from different people on a sikh forum called TAPOBAN.

i just want to keep the info related to the dohra..

ur right tho...

im in a hurry now

take care till tommorow fateh

I am sorry to say that Dad has left this world

My dear SikhiWiki friend,

Unfortunately, I have to give you very sad news that Dad passed away on Friday, 17 October 2008. The doctors tried their best to help him but it seems that his moment to leave had arrived. I am sorry that I could not communicate this sad fact to you earlier.

The whole of the family and I would like to thank everyone especially you for your concern and deep interest in the outcome. Dad had suffered from hypertension for many years and although on medicine, it appears that his heart was gradually damaged and due to his age it could not continue to function. The left ventricle stopped functioning adequately and so it was impossible for him to carry on sustaining himself as enough blood was not being pumped around the body.

The funeral is on Monday, 27 October 2008 at 2.15pm local UK time. Please continue to pray for him if you can. Kind regards and my deepest appreciation for your caring thoughts and keen concern, Hari Singhtalk 22:26, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Dear Richard and Ann,
My sincere thanks for such a kind and loving message. Dad's name is Gurdev Singh. He was born in village Chahal Kalan in Punjab in 1930. From about 1950 to 1975, he lived in Kenya and then for the rest of his life in England. I suppose most people would say that they have the best Dad in the world and I can confirm this was absolutely a fact in our family. I agree with you that he was dearly loved and will be so sadly missed by so many who knew him. Thank you for praying for him; may the Lord assist him in his journey hereafter. Deepest regards, Hari Singhtalk 11:04, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

One has to be brave to accept hukam

Sat Sri Akal Richard,

Thanks for your message and kind concern. The family is still very hurt by the devastating and "sudden" event but at the same time the Will of the Lord has to be accepted. The funeral was on Monday, 27th and it was a peaceful but sad day. Many hundreds of friends and relations were present for the final darshan and ardas to send Dad off to his journey hereafter. May Waheguru bless him and help us cope with this huge loss! Most of the family attended the Gurdwara for Bandi Chhorh Divas on Tuesday - life has to continue however sad one might feel.

The word "Nagar" as in "Nagar kirtan" should be pronounced as "Nagar" which mean "Neighbourhood" while the war drum played during this procession through the neighbourhood is called a "Nagara" (Na-Ga-ra). The spelling with the "d" may in this case be an error although as you say sometimes the "r" and "d" can be interchanged in some Punjabi words. Regards, Hari Singhtalk 02:06, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the messages

Hi Richard,

Thanks for the suggestion on the book on Duleep Singh and the Yuba city Sikh parade. I have linked the parade article to a news item on the main-page but I think we need to do a full article on this parade as it is a pretty big event. I wonder if you would like to make a start on this new article - call it Sikh parade Yuba city?

Yes, we get a huge dose of the political going ons in the US although it will make little difference to us here in the UK. Hope the best team wins! regards, Hari Singhtalk 18:42, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Banda Singh Bahadur

Hi Richard, Sat Sri Akal

My understanding is that: Banda was baptized and converted into the Sikh fold and was given the name Gurbaksh (meaning "blessed by the Guru") Singh. However, he is popularly known as "Banda Singh Bahadur" - taken from wikipedia. It appears that this is not included on SikhiWiki - I think it should be added - Could you please like to add this to the Banda Singh Bahadur article? Thanks and kind regards, Hari Singhtalk 01:04, 7 November 2008 (UTC)


Ssa Ji

Hanji, the royals here have been in India since 2 weeks.. They even inaugurated a new gurudwara or some langar making machine.. They indeed visited few gurughars in delhi area

Dusari means second... Hor.. Hows life?

Sunnybondsinghjalwehra 20:35, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Sat Shri Akaal

How are you? Howz life going?

Sorry Sir, As i am busy know days due to exams and project which i takeover from my college due to which i m not able to devout ma time on sikhiwiki. I came once or twice or thrice but dunno have enough time to read on or reply. Sorry For that.

1) About ZahraZahoor i read MahanKosh the Largest Punjabi Dictionary by Kahan Singh Nabha and the meaning of zahra zahoor was written ""Partakh Roop mein"", whose translation i have already given. Even i also dont know arabic

2) About Bull Cow theory i dont know much even i havent studied. My friend put something on that article from my ID and i dont know what she wrote.

3) Well I told my friend to download movie Body of Lies i have seen Shoot at Sight. UK Movie. It's good movie Shows the Mindset of terrorists, how they become terrorist. There is a Dialoge " Mr. the question is not that all muslim are terrorists, the question is all terrorists are muslims". which means a lot. There are many good facts in movie, showed many aspects of muslim life too. I have studied many facts of quran like Surah Al Nas, Surah Al Kafirun and other surahs etc. Quran contains godly words and its nice to read that. Havent Studied bible ever

4) About Studies i have told you and family is fine you tell howz yours??

5) Will check Bhai Dalla's Article soon.

and Yaa Today is Birthday of Founder of Sikhism Guru Nanak. So Best wishes. Happy Gurpurab. May God bless you. May all be blessesd. Thanks Regards (Lucky 06:30, 13 November 2008 (UTC))


SSA, u r doing a great sewa and the most imp thing is ur dedication of regularity, i thing u need one more Barnstar user:sarbjeet_1313me


Sat Sri Akal ji

Hanji, dr gurmit singh aulakh is here in belgium for few days... thanks for making the pic better.. the pic now looks very gud

well that case of dr aulakh and forged signature is a big lie and blunder..

i am planning to do something for khalistan later for sure

i dont know about the pic sorry

ur right, none of our gurus faught for a piece of land, but guru gobind singhji said RAJ BINA NA DHARAM CHALLE HAIN, RAJ BINA SAB DALLE MALE HAIN. Also, SHASTEREN KE ADHEEN HAI RAJ and also RAJ KAREGA KHALSA, AKI RAHE NA KOE (which is sung each evening in satsangat)

oh so u have a beard also?

i thought u were cleanshaven.. my mistake..

Sunnybondsinghjalwehra 20:33, 24 November 2008 (UTC)


Dear Richard,

Many thanks for the research into this matter. Having read your message, I must agree with you that the word does exist but I believe that it is not a popular word and that the comparison is not a good one as the example used is not too well known. Using a popular comparison would have been more acceptable.

Having done a Google search on the word 'Hazuria' it appears that Hazuria can also mean 'personal attendant' (*1) and can also be used to refer to a 'scarf' worn by some Sikhs (*2). For all those reasons, I agree that it was not a good example to use and I did notice that you had not in the end reverted the change by Kaur-1.

Regarding the TV programme on the 'Chakram', we do not have that show on the list of programme available from our service provider here in the UK. Please let us know if the word 'Sikh' is used during the show. It would be interesting to know what they mention about the recent history of this weapon.

Many thanks as always for your dedicated and valuable contribution. Kind regards, Hari Singhtalk 00:09, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the message. I searched the list on the net for 'Chakram TV-PG, CC' and I believe that it may appear on this website after Jan 24. I will keep an eye on this site. Regards, Hari Singhtalk 13:19, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Show on chakrams

Dear Richard ji,

Many thanks for the detailed information. I will try and find the show online as we do not appear to have that TV channel in the UK. Hopefully after a short delay, it should appear online. It's a shame that you did not find it more interesting. However, something on chakrams is better than nothing! I will keep you updated. With Guru's blessings, kindest regards, Hari Singhtalk 17:26, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Limited Universe? eh what indeed!

Hi Richard,

It is amazing how ignorant even important people are about the Sikh Scriptures. The Guru says "The limits of the created universe cannot be perceived." (SGGS p5) also "He is, and shall always be. He shall not depart, even when this Universe which He has created departs." (SGGS p6). Other relevant quotes:

  • "You Yourself created the entire universe, and having fashioned it, You Yourself shall destroy it all." (SGGS p11)
  • "The Lord of the Universe is the Treasure of Excellence; His limits cannot be found." (SGGS p32)
  • Your message has got me started on research on the article "SGGS on the Universe" - It is still work in progress. Also, the book and particularly the photo 'Pale Blue Dot' is absolutely fascinating. Many thanks for the introductions.

Kind regards, Hari Singhtalk 10:02, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

India's National Anthem and Rabi Tagore

Hi Richard,

Tagore although a Bengali appears to have a great understanding to Nanak's message. This a snippet from Sikhism and science:

Some one asked the late Nobel Laureate Rabindera Nath Tagor: “You have written national anthem for India. Can you write international anthem for the whole world?”

His reply: “It’s already written not only for international but for the entire universe in 15th century by Nanak,” replied Tagor.

He rightfully referred to Aarti (ceremony of light). What can be more universal than the Aarti authored by Guru Nanak. Beyond boundaries of any religion or any country. He is recognizing: “God created humanity; God created universe including earth. (gagan mai thaal rav chand deepak banay taarikaa mandal janak moti; Upon that cosmic plate of the sky, the sun and the moon are the lamps. The stars and their orbs are the studded pearls. dhoop mal-aanlo pavan chavro karay sagal banraa-ay foolant joti; The fragrance of sandalwood in the air is the temple incense (dhoop), and the wind is the fan. All the plants of the world are the altar flowers in offering to You, O Luminous Lord. kaisee aarti ho-ay; bhav khandnaa tayree aarti; What a beautiful Aarti, lamp-lit worship service this is! O Destroyer of Fear, this is Your Ceremony of Light. SGGS, Page: 13, Lines:1- 3).

Regards, Hari Singhtalk 15:41, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Sikhism Islam

Thanks you Richard,

I will have a good look at this article tomorrow as I am short of time now. I do not remember doing this article myself so can only assume that it was done by someone else. Your help is much appreciated.

I hope your health is keeping well. Kind regards, Hari Singhtalk 19:07, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Change of Server

Hi Richard

Gurumustuk Singh is trying to upgrade the SikhiWiki server, so I would not do any changes on Sikhiwiki until this work is completed. I will let you know when this is completed. Thanks, Hari Singhtalk 15:03, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

It appears that Gurumustuk Singh is having some problems with the upgrade, so I have done some work on the system today but I am saving a copy of the articles as a word document on my computer. I don't think anything will happen now until Monday USA time. Sorry about this but hopefully it should be resolved by early next week. Please make a copy of any major changes. Thanks, Hari Singhtalk 01:56, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
Gurumustuk Singh has had some problems with the web server company and the the upgrade is delayed. Please feel free to continue to work on SikhiWiki. Sorry for the inconvenience. I will keep you posted as to what happens on this front as soon as I know. Regards, Hari Singhtalk 00:56, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Changes by Gurmeetaman

Dear Richard,

I hope things are well with you and your family. Many thanks for your message. I believe that Sarbjeet has rolled back some of the pages and I have deleted one and rolled back another. I have also left a message for the user. Hopefully, we will not get a repeat of this any further. Kind regards, Hari Singhtalk 14:48, 26 February 2009 (UTC)


Dear Richard, Sat Sri Akal

Regarding the line: "--which is treated like a living Guru." and to link this to Guru Gobind Singh is appropriate. Whenever we take the Guru from one place to another, the granth is carried on the head and water is sprinkled by a sewadar in front of the procession while the Chaur is fanned by a third sewadar; the mantar "satnam waheguru" is chanted by all so that everyone nearby knows the Guru's procession is approaching. Most Sikh nearby would face the Guru's possession and would then bow and touch the ground as respect for the shabad or bani.

In the home, although you cannot have the same elaborate "Guru's throne" certain minimums are stipulated. A Chanani/Manji sahib combination or Palki with integrated manji, chaur, rumalla are a must. Obviously the material may be just simple cotton instead of satin/silk, etc; the quality and size of the palki may be humble, etc; the chaur may be just a simple fan but one would expect these everywhere. However nowhere else have I seen the pomp of the ceremony that takes place at Harmandir sahib where they have 5 amazing rumalla changed daily; chanani changed daily, etc.

While at the takhats, someone is in attendance of the Guru Granth all the time, this is not done in most Gurdwaras. I think the treatment given to the Guru whether 11th or 10th depends on circumstances; 10th Guru was alone in the jungle with torn clothes after "being tricked" by the mughals - no lavish arrangements were possible. Same would apply to 11th Guru. One has to do the best with the available resources.

However the Palki, the trumpet heralding the coming and going of the SGGS; the nightly cleaning of the 'Palace" and the 'Throne' room (The Golden Temple) might even be superior to that of the days of Guru Gobind Singh as I doubt his coverings and the cushions of his 'throne' (seat in his court) were changed each day.

  • I think you may be right - I don't think the Guru would have allowed this on a daily basis!

So my thought was that the SGGS is treated in the same way that Sikhs think that Guru Gobind Singh was or should have been treated--equal to the splendour afforded any Maharaja of India's princely states or the Mughal or Hindu Courts.

  • yes, I agree.

So I thought the line --which is treated like a living Guru, might be more accurate as: …the SGGS is treated in the same way as Sikhs treated their last living Gurus.

  • perhaps change the SGGS to "holy Granth" - but yes I would agree with this statement.

I say last as I cannot imagine Guru Nanak or Guru Angad ever allowing anyone to carry them about in Golden or Silver throne chairs as the Emperors of India (Rajputs, Mughals), Japan, England and France (Louis XIV le Roi Soleil) all those who thought they were the son of the Sun (or God) as was once thought by them and their subjects.

  • I think it is difficult to imagine the first five Gurus allowing this sort of treatment. I believe that the 6th (perhaps 7th) and 10th Guru are depicted differently from all the others.

I also wonder when this custom at the Golden Temple started, particularly if it was begun by the Mahants who had even included (I have read) Murtis in the Harmandir Sahib itself, the washing with milk seems to be something left over from those times?

  • I believe that the basic routine of bringing the Granth to the darbar started in 1604 when the Adi Granth was completed by the 5th Guru. However, the ceremony has probably become more elaborate with time. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the customs where due to the influence of the mahants. Interestingly, when we bathe the body (corpse) of a departed soul, the custom is to use yoghurt to wash the body and not soap. So I don't know if milk/yoghurt have some cleansing property which were known to the folks then or are these two regarded as "holy" due to the link to the cow and Hinduism. As a general rule, my parent's and my generation do not consider milk as holy but I will need to speak to my mother to see if the previous generations regarded milk special due to the link to the cow!

I hope this helps. While formulating this reply, I have made several changes to the Gurdwara article and a few others linked to the "Guru's throne" Thanks and kind regards, Hari Singhtalk 07:24, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

more on Bani and tattoos

Sat Sri Akal

many thanks for your kind words. I have registered with the e-paper Dawn, and will try and see if I can get any real idea of what is going on in Pakistan although time is pretty limited. Thanks for the summary. It appears things are a real mess at the moment. I hope we get some stable and pure leadership otherwise the country will be doomed and that will not serve the Sikh cause.

As the country where Sikhi began, I feel that it would be better for the whole world to see an open liberal government in Pakistan so that all communities are honoured just as Guru Nanak intended. At present things in Pakistan seem to be going in reverse direction! Thanks for providing the summary about your observations - I am surprise that leader like Jinnah have found no successors in this country and that extremist have taken root.

If you find any articles on Jinnah please post them on SikhiWiki as any view fitting in with the Guru message need to be encourgaed in this country. I like your quote that you give - While addressing the Constituent Assembly, Quaid-i-Azam said: “You may belong to any religion or caste or creed - that has nothing to do with the business of the state...We are starting with this fundamental principle that we are all citizens and equal citizens of one state... Now I think we should keep that in front of us as our ideal and you will find that in the course of time, Hindus will cease to be Hindus and Muslims will cease to be Muslims, not in the religious sense because that is the personal faith of each individual, but in the political sense as citizens of the state.”

…You are free; you are free to go to your temples, you are free to go to your mosques or to any other place or worship in this State of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion or caste or creed that has nothing to do with the business of the State…

This is encouraging and I wonder if this will continue. Perhaps we need to start an article - "Guru Nanak and current political views in Pakistan"

Re: Makeup and decoration - I liked the way you put this to Keren and I agree with your analysis as it is not something that I had given much thought to. Rgds, Hari Singhtalk 20:01, 1 March 2009 (UTC)


Hi Richard, Good morning,

I have managed to open some pages at the Dawn website but as you say, it is a little cumbersome to select the right stories. Thanks for your instructions, I will try that next time I surf that site.

I agree that the parna or perna is going our of fashion and less as less sewadars appear to be wearing this garment. A step backward as you say; the same applies to the chunni for ladies. This also had a positive impact on hygiene but very few Sikh ladies wear this in their own kitchens although it is still a necessary requirement for the langar. Hair as we all know does regularly fall out naturally from all parts of the body and it does make sense to cover as much of the body as possible when in the kitchen. Another little problem to think about!

I have not kept in touch with developments in the Swat valley but it is an area which has always ignited in times of political tensions. As in other cultures, the local leaders of the people move them away from the route of peace to a position of local tribal posturing to gain local control.

This has remained the same in most cultures; the locals forget or are incapable of knowing the message of their national and wider leaders and so the local warlords gain control. Fortunately, the main Sikh shrines have survived so far due to the local goodwill towards Guru Nanak, who is correctly regarded as "one of them" by a small dedicated minority who live near these shrines. Destruction is the name of the game for these local junta - they gain local support by these activities so anything is possible. However, as there is no "ill-feeling" against the Sikh Gurus, who as I said have so far found local support and also the respect for Sikh soldiers, one can only hope and pray that this position will continue. However, there is no guarantee as these leaders do not follow our logic! These mullahs care for nothing but their own pleasures and riches. Divide terrorise and is their motto.

The reason they have some much armaments is because they make, maintain and repair these themselves. Also the occupation by the super power of Afghanistan has allowed many millions of these weapons to flow into the area. The local craftsmen have the skill to maintain these weapons forever. So once a gun enters the area, it is there for eternity. The owners may die but the weapons survives!

So long, regards, Hari Singhtalk 03:12, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Need YOur Help

Sat Shri Akaal Sir How are you? howz life going?

I am updating an article Battle of Hargobindpur. The previous details of article was wrong. I personally visit the site and bring the whole history. I am typing some parts of it, which are correct historically n technically too. Please check english and making of sentences. i will be very thankful to you. There are some uncompleted parts which will be completed soon. God Bless. Thanks

(Lucky 19:09, 7 March 2009 (UTC))

Furthur Help

Wrote the new section in rubbish manner but i think you will get what is written under it, please edit it and make it a complete article then i will check it though with all historical sources Battle_of_Hargobindpur#Battle.

Sir there is no proper details about hargobindpur anywhere from where i am writing its written the war fought in 1629 and i will prefer only 1629, so i am correcting some fundaas. I am trying to make his article more appropriateand suitable for spreadism. thx

(Lucky 16:42, 9 March 2009 (UTC))

Sat Shri Akaal Allenwala

  • You Said: The biggest problem with the article is that it stTES THAT THE GURU WON A WAR AND CHANGED THE NAME OF THE VILLAGE RUHELA TO GOBINDPUR. IN THe next section it says that his father built Gobindpur over The former village of Ruhela. Was this an abandoned village -- who built it?

Reply: Guru Ji had Not changed the name of Ruhela, it was Guru Arjun dev, father of Guru Hargobind, who kept its name GOBINDPUR. but when Guru Hargobindji fought a war there, then common people started calling this place HARGOBINDPUR and they used SHRI or Sri before Hargobind ji so it is called SHRI HARGOBINDPUR.

Yes there are some confusions are yet to be solved, i will go to my home (Sahibzada Ajit SIngh Nagar) and solve the above problem, as at hoshiarpur i do not have high speed net and it takes lot of time to open a small Web page. Dont worry i will try my best.

  • You Said: I can't find Gobindpur on the maps did you get to visit there?

Reply: Do not search for GOBINDPUR search for Sri Hargobindpour or Shri Hargobindpur, it will show you near gurdaspur or Qadian, in indian Punjab. Try the link Shri Hargobind Pur. I visited the whole area and in article i have presented my views how it felt to be in that area. The Manager of Gurdwara is good he send a sewadar with us who helped us to see all places related to guru including guru ki maseet, guru ka mandir, granthia ki dharamshala, house of guru arjun dev etc. It is very old city, old buildings. watching Guru ki maseet was a great experiance.

There were many muslim followers of guru hargobind including Sayyed Jani Shah(Article already present), Anwar Khan, Khwaja Roshan(Gurus Horsekeeper), but rite now no muslim is there only hindues and sikh families live there. Guru Ki maseet is under Nihang Sikhs. i have updtaed various pic of the location.

Here conditions are good but ya price hike is there, in many products. our CM is developing his area i.e Malwa Punjab, but majha and Doaba region area is not developed so much.Now election days are near so they are providing every facility to us. do you know in punjab there was a electricity cut for 8 Hrs (Except capital), but now they provide electricity for full day. This is india when someone in need, do not ask and when you are in need then help them.

I think i have replied for what you have asked. Did I?

Sorry for poor english, Thanks, Rabb Rakha(Lucky 07:24, 10 March 2009 (UTC))

Sri Dasmesh Darbar Gurdwara, Kopar Khairane

Hi Richard,

It is unusual to get an article with a request for donation. But as you say its just one page and this could start a tread. This one page in itself does not have a huge impact on SikhiWiki as a whole and I think we should let it stand.

SikhiWiki as everyone knows is about spreading knowledge about Sikhi and the concept of collecting donation is not a mission that we should be involved in. However, it is a just cause and we cannot be seen to be opposing it as we have just one or just a few such page(s).

I think we should let this stay but be careful if we start getting more such requests.

Thanks for the message and your continued hard work. Kind regards, Hari Singhtalk 20:11, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

Hans Raj Hans

Hi Richard

Thanks for the message. I have created a page for Surjit Bindrakhia from various sources - hope this will give some of the information that you requested.

As you say many Sikhs want to restrict the work of Guru Nanak to their own limits - this was not the intention of the Gurus. They wanted all the world to be more enlightened and the Gurus travelled far and wide to spread Gurbani to bring their knowledge to all.

Finding the shabad

Finding the Shabad in English (and Gurmukhi) Richard, there is a marvellous site at:

which allows one to find the shabad in the SGGS. Listen to the main line of the Shabad and note down the first few words or you can rely on the title given.

In this shabad if you listen to the main line the first few words are - mill maray pritamh jeeo .....

if you note the first letters of this shabad - they are MMPJ which in Gurmukhi is 'ਮਮਪਜ'. Typing this in the field labelled Gurmukhi:, selecting the "First Letters (From Start)" button and selecting "search" produces the shabad - which is:

mil maerae preethamaa jeeo thudhh bin kharee nimaanee ||
Meet me, O my Dear Beloved. Without You, I am totally dishonored.

mai nainee needh n aavai jeeo bhaavai a(n)n n paanee ||
Sleep does not come to my eyes, and I have no desire for food or water.

paanee a(n)n n bhaavai mareeai haavai bin pir kio sukh paaeeai ||
I have no desire for food or water, and I am dying from the pain of separation. Without my Husband Lord, how can I find peace?

gur aagai karo bina(n)thee jae gur bhaavai jio milai thivai milaaeeai ||
I offer my prayers to the Guru; if it pleases the Guru, He shall unite me with Himself.

aapae mael leae sukhadhaathaa aap miliaa ghar aaeae ||
The Giver of peace has united me with Himself; He Himself has come to my home to meet me.

naanak kaaman sadhaa suhaagan naa pir marai n jaaeae ||4||2||
O Nanak, the soul-bride is forever the Lord's favorite wife; her Husband Lord does not die, and He shall never leave. ||4||2||

Poem by Gurdas

I will try and translate this poem that Gurdas Maan sings as a tribute to Surjit Bindrakhia; it must be Gurdas' own composition:

maa boley itihas dha vaarah, jaad vee hunjaa gee, Bindrakhia dee yaad keesa konaa which gujaa gee
Whenever, Mother tongue and the platform of history are discussed, Bindrakhia memory will vibrate in that corner

neeoka chakke javan deegpeh naak punjabi dee, wah tere geet naal paree see sat punajbi dee
Pick up carefully youngman the pride of Punjab, it was filled with songs of true punjabi

jadoh dupaat saat raang naal aakeea punjaa gee, Bindrakhia dee yaad keesa konaa which gujaa gee

Oh seedh dah key kareea, jeeth ddeed ne yaar dee, wah kaat nee puree hondee whee chaara phan karkan dee

Jaado kesanu mooth meelagee rondah chonda dee, Bindrakhia dee yaad keesa konaa which gujaa gee

Kee kah kay samjava v tere roonda maapaah noo, dusman vee na changa samjan oovaan seeapa noo

meeth jee muuskan jeedoth keesa da deel nu chundaah gee, Bindrakhia dee vaaj keesa konaa which gujaa gee

geet villak dah ranga teree llamee hhaka noo, vah tu ssakkan turgeea suuraj dha ssakka nuu

seer dee pagree gaal dah kaantha nu jaad tunnda gee, Bindrakhia dee vaaj keesa konaa which gujaa gee

Gidha bhagra dah peerh suunh kaar geeh sajan wha, yaad teree dah tumbah tah heer dil which vajan wah

Tu surjit rahaga duneeh taanu tundagee, Bindrakhia dee yaad aa-sada dil which gunjaa gee

I will complete this later, Hari Singhtalk 02:07, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Sat Shri Akaal Sir ji

How are you?

How is life going?

Thanks for Your help in Battle of Hargobindpur topic. I have improved a lot, and tried to resolve every confusion. If any confusion is still there then please tell i will work on that. I think now the article is almost complete.

I have created an article Skirmish Of Bassi Kalan, as i went to Bassi Kalan and bring info from there but reasearch work is still there. i read some books and with support of history books put data into that article. please do required clean up. I have to reasearch more about the singhs who were martyered there, but i think the article can satisfy all. Please do the required cleanup. Thanks (Lucky 19:40, 19 March 2009 (UTC))


Im fine Ji. Going to schotland tommorow for a school trip (5 days)... What about you? Will check the article. Sunnybondsinghjalwehra 22:04, 28 March 2009 (UTC)


Hi Richard,

I listened to the speech by Mr Jinnah and as you say, it contrasts completely with what is happening in the country today. There is no peace within Pakistan; violence is exported to the rest of the world from the nation; many citizens of the country are involved in violence both inside Pakistan and abroad on a daily basis.

It is easy to say nice words but very difficult to put them into practice. The leaders have completely failed its people. No one seems to be focused to the welfare of the nation; all are filling their own pockets. What a pity! Pakistan is the birth country of Guru Nanak but most people of this nation have not learnt any lessons from this 'man of God' I do not think the recent changes will have any positive impact directly but if it help some good people to become leaders then we may see a change. May God bless this nation and its people and show them a way forward otherwise they will continue to suffer in agony for many more decades.

Regarding the case of Mukhtaran Bibi, I am completely baffled how such a crime can take place in this day and age. I had never even heard to this before and it is shocking to know that such things are done by humans living today! If the local leaders have such low moral standards, we are going to behave like mad animals. It is a joke that on the one hand we have people behaving in this inhumane manner and on the other we have people like Bhagat Puran Singh who cared of the sick with all his energy, carrying a cripple on his back all his life. What contrast! They seem like individuals from different species.

In connection with the Gujjar men and the potter women, again, I had never come across this before, but again this is inhuman behaviour! Many people appear to be stuck in pre-historic times; they have lost connection with the present and the statndard to behaviour that they need to follow. The words of the Gurus, prophets, pirs and saints are wasted as far as these people are concerned. Only education and knowledge can bring a change for these people.

Thanks for bringing these stories to my attention. What I need to learn from these women is their stamina and guts to fight the system! Regards, Hari Singhtalk 00:32, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Never off

Sir Satsriakal thanx for the message , i always find ur contr on recent changes page. Due to lack of time am unable to contribute but always hv a strict vigil and love to read ur queries. user:sarbjeet_1313me

Dress etc

Dear Richard, Thanks for sharing. This makes perfect sense. The salwar {or pyjamas) is an item, where even now, one size fits all and it is appears to be made in size - 'very large'. Regards, Hari Singhtalk 13:46, 2 April 2009 (UTC)