User talk:Hpt lucky/backup2

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maing page needs to be edited,as the upper most banner is hanging down plz do something as i m not allowed to do so.How can i be alloed to edit mainpage?

Our Condolences to you and your family

Harpreet Singh Ji,

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh

Sorry to learn news about your beloved grand-mother. May Waheguru bless her with His mercy so that she may forever escape the cycle of reincarnation. May the Almighty give the rest of the family strength to accept His Hukam and the Will to live in peace without her physical presence. Our Ardas is with you. May Waheguru bless you all. das, Hari Singh 13:39, 14 September 2007 (EDT)

.....................................May Waheguru help you and your family in this moment of pain.

Er.Sarbjeet Singh, Jammu

user:sarbjeet_1313me ,

14 Sept. 2007

Archived your old user talk comments

Lucky ji,

As your talk page was getting very long, I have Archived your old user comments to a sub-page here. I hope this is OK. Regards, Hari Singh 19:04, 14 September 2007 (EDT)


Veer Lucky ji pyaar bhari Satshriakaal

I write my name only under the Articles which i write myself not copied from else. I am of the opinion that it is the fundamental right of a person to write his name who writes of his own. But if Sir ji says i will abide and stop doing this. Thanks

Guru Fateh


20 Sept 2007

Ji aaya Nuu - Welcome

Lucky ji,

With Waheguru's mahar, everything is well. I hope you are keeping well also. Sabh theek thaak hah? Malik dee kirpa hova taah, Grandmom ji dee migration-da cycle stop hova.

I will look at the Gurdwara Toka Sahib article and improve the English - I am sure it will be reasonable anyway.

Yes, I have seen Sarbjeet ji's signature at the end of some articles and it is not the Wiki-way of doing things. I will try and explain to Sarbjeet ji.

It will be great to see pictures of PatalPuri Sahib and Toka Sahib Gurdwaras. Aaha photoa please jaldee paash karo - we are all thirsty for darshan of all g/ws of the world. Shub kaam karan-tho, Thheel nahee karnee. Never hesitate from doing good deeds!

With Waheguru's kirpa, we will be coming to Punjab on about 15 Dec 2007 and will be based near Jalandar or Phagwara for 2 weeks for my niece's wedding on 23 Dec. Afterwards, we will be visiting various g/w's and will be leaving Punjab on about 12 Jan 2008.

Please see if the SikhiWiki team from Punjab can arrange a meeting somewhere in Punjab. Please give me some cell phone and landline contacts by email at: [email protected] so we can keep in touch. I will get a local cell chip when I get there so we can keep contact locally.

Guru mahar kaar-dah rahan. Regards, das, Hari Singh 10:49, 20 September 2007 (EDT)

ikk Bore drSn deej"

Khalsa je WaKaFa !!!

  • How is every thing !
  • Look forward to Sharing Minds & staying in touch.
  • Will you be interested in working on the project of Tranlating DARPAN into English you know Gurmukhi WELL and I know b-r-o-k-e-n inglish.
  • We both for sure should be able to jointly learn & walk Guru's way.

gur fq'h -------Mutia 22:04, 4 October 2007 (EDT)

Sat Siri Akal

Harpreet Singh ji,

Bohot khusihee hoee aap ji thee message milee. Everything is fine in UK. Thanks to Waheguru, all are in very good spirits - SikhiWiki dee vee chardikalach tarakee hoe raeeha. I know we all miss khar dee roti and the atmosphere but to make any progress in life, sacrifice is necessary. Work hard - Daab-ka kaam karo - and you should get a good job after your studies. The world is very competitive and only highly qualified persons will find success.

I have been to Hoshiarpur some 5 years ago and I agree technology is not their strong point. In fact we stayed at the best local hotel and the electricity kept failing - telephone did not work, etc. The hotel just a few miles away in Jalandhar was fine.

I hope your studies are going well and that that you will get a great result in the MCA.

pangaya toh baach ka rana. Try and stay away from these unnecessary problem as it just leads to a waste of time. Good advice - not to give your personal details on the internet! especially your telephone number.

We will be coming to India in mid-December. I will contact you by email nearer the time and give you our details. Will be staying until mid-January. Good luck with studies. Keep in chardikala and speak to you soon, das, Hari Singh 18:44, 3 November 2007 (MDT)


SSA, thanx for the verification on the article which credited wazir khan's death to Baba Deep Singh Ji deleted it this am/ another question, Jassa Singh Ramgarhia (1723 -1803) was a prominent Sikh leader during the period of the Sikh Confederacy. He became Baron of the Ramgarhia

tne title baron appears in the wikipedia article as well this is not a Pujabi title, is it, Allenwalla 17:04, 8 November 2007 (MST)

Thanks for the response

As people reading the article (english, americans, nri/s,abcds-whose parents aren't teaching their children their Indian languages, who do not know any better will think the Sardar had taken an english royal title. i think that the use of the Panjabi title would be better as you have told me———————— Misldhar(Sultan ul Quam) or the simpler Misldhar(leader of the misl) for those of use who don't understand persian or arabic. thanks again for the response, SSAAllenwalla 10:28, 9 November 2007 (MST)

thanks for the translation

Sir, Hope you had a good Bandi Chorh Divas / Diwali / allenwalla

thanks for the translation

Sir, Hope you had a good Bandi Chorh Divas / Diwali / allenwalla

Gurdwara Harian Vailan pictures

Lucky ji, Sat Siri Akal

The pictures are very good but why put a big "image by XYZ" on the picture. We are doing Guru's sewa not advertising who we are! Please ask your friend to remove that text - it does not look very professional. If you must have a message, it must be small type and at the bottom of the picture - not in the middle. Guru asks us to be humble and keep a low profile. Look at what the Guru's and other Sikhs have done for the panth - they never asked for their names to be mentioned! We have to follow their example. das, Hari Singh 20:17, 22 November 2007 (MST)

When you submit work to SikhiWiki, it is without copyright, on a free license - See
You may acknowledge the contributor by inserting a small text but you cannot submit copyright material. That is why we call SikhiWiki a free Encyclopaedia! - Anyone can use it without worrying about copyright. The material on SikhiWiki is for the promotion of Sikhi. If other people copy photos of Gurdwaras - isn't that a good thing. What if Gurdwaras start charging for the photos? Unthinkable right! So why should we think of any restriction on the photos?
SikhiWiki is unlike other websites like,, sarabloh, etc which are basically commercial sites where the personal may be looking for financial reward as that is their kirit. All contributors to SikhiWiki are Sewadars - they offer their service free!
Apart from the hosting and maintenance of SikhiWiki, every other aspect of SikhiWiki is non-money involved. The hosting aspect is paid by Sikhnet which puts a banner for a few weeks each year on SikhiWiki to raise funds for the hosting & maintence. None of the contributors gain financially from their vast contributions. All articles submitted from other sites did not involve any money.
Just like Gurbani has never had any copyright, so material on SikhiWiki should be without copyright. We should however acknowledge the contributors and this is done automatically by the system under the history tab.
If you have any question please come back. das, Hari Singh 09:20, 23 November 2007 (MST)

Parkash Utsav

Lucky ji, Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh

Thank you for your good wishes. Aap ji nu vee, Bohot, bohot Maharaja Guru Nanak Dev ji da Parkash Utsav deen deea Badaiaa. Maharaja, baksish karan sabh tah - Nanak Naam Chardi Kala, Teraa Bhanaa Sarbaht dah Phahla May you and all your family have a wonderful weekend and may the blessing of Guru Nanak be with you always! And may you, with warmth in your heart continue to contribute to the noble Guru's magnificent cause. Das, Hari Singh 10:45, 23 November 2007 (MST)

Singh is "Voice of India"

Thanks for the quick message - I have put it in the news section. Great news; many congratulations. Hari Singh 21:26, 24 November 2007 (MST)

Thanks for your message regarding mutia ji. Please ardas karo sabh theek hova gaa. Malik is bakshaan-haar - we will be blessed. Hari Singh 20:06, 26 November 2007 (MST)

Thanks for the translation

Sir, SSA, your translation is perfectly understandable. sorry that my Punjabi is so poor actually almost non existant though i understand a word or two. i am starting to understand the structure a little bit which is pretty much exactly backwards of english. with the verbs at the end and adjectives and adverbs following the words they modify. i don't know (nehai samajtha hai?) if you folks celebrate the new year on Jan 1 much or have the big mela or Hola Maholla on Chet 1 ? again thanks for the translation wanted to add it to an article where the line is used. Das Allenwalla 09:58, 31 December 2007 (MST)

Contact me URGENTLY

Please contact me on 987 257 3180 (Airtel mobile) - I am in Mohali today and tomorrow Hari Singh 02:20, 2 January 2008 (MST)

On Labanas

SSA, could you help with translations of

  1. Patal peti ujjal danti marwarn lai se aa, lda taro moria rangoon
  1. Supdaa- CHajj, Kasumbha - Full, Khrot - Aata Allenwalla 20:32, 9 January 2008 (MST)

Re unfortunate lost words

SSA, thanks for your response i thought you were the author of this article / sorry to hear that even the meaning of these sayings are seemingly lost. Perhaps , WaheGuru willing someone will see the phrases sometime and add the meanings. dhanavadAllenwalla 12:56, 11 January 2008 (MST)


SSA, have a great day, was it you who was trying to connect with Sardar Hari Singh while he was in India? Thanks again for your efforts and timely help.Allenwalla 13:27, 11 January 2008 (MST)if any graphics-maps etc. can help any articles you add please let me know as those are easy to do.

Did some writing on your current story

Compaired to my skills in Punjabi your skills in English make me an ullu and you a Giani.Allenwalla 14:59, 11 January 2008 (MST)


Sardar, yes i knew this was a review and a fairly caustic one at that. i was just wondering if it had been a review written by someone and published somewhere giving that persons name.

Even i could see that errors were made - khatri being a lowest class of kshatriya when it is a Punjabi shortening of the longer sanskrit word. American english does the same as Punjabi we shorten and simplify getting rid of uneeded letters and older 'old english phrases. we spell color vs. colour and there are many others. India has become a refuge for words long dropped from use in english.

If you want old american cars, you go to Cuba where cars from our fourties and fifties are abundant. In India old Rolls Royces and Benzes are often found -often the last things some destitue old royal has to part with for needed cash. An ad i saw for the Lake Palace where Jahangir had stayed during his attempt to dethrone his father, is now revamped or restored to its former splendor. Guests are picked up at the airport in a 1956 Buick convertible, owned once by the local Raja, the driver has a duppata with a tail hanging almost to the ground. i thought of adding the picture to the article on dupattas.

As a child my teacher for instance would hit my hand with a ruler if i ever used the spelling 'learnt' as it was old english only used by little country children in my village. The word i was susposed to use was 'learned', but i find learnt being used even by the reporters at the newspapers in India. i have increased my vocabulary in english because some articles have fancy word of old english no longer used here. Almoner is one and another i found yesterday was weal (happiness or prosperity).

My screen name Allenwalla is as explained compiled of my middle name, my father and mothers initials.

Like Maharaja Rangit Singh Gujranwalla which i have seen someone refer to as his correct name, i knew it was a reference to his village. Kapdey wala must be the Punjabi version of dhobiwala. We have kitchen sponges available in the grocery stores, brand named 'Dhobi'and then their are the tiffenwalas in the big cities of India.

My given name i just wanted to keep private as i know that Hpt lucky isn't your given name.

I was talking with a Sikh friend yesterday whose last name is after his village, he joked that soon he would be called Rangit Singh Decaturwala. Decatur is a city near Atlanta. Besides my english name would sound out of place on sikiwiki. i suspose that this is why americans who become Sikhs or Muslims change their names to avoid having to deal with the prejudices that people just can't seem to give up. p.s. surprised was i to learn today that my first name, in my hundred year old french dictionary, means Nawab, Emir/Amir or rich wealthy person. i guess that all over the world parents give their children names they hope they will grow into. i am yet to make it. Allenwalla 14:59, 17 January 2008 (MST)

dupatta photo i spoke of


as i could find no photo of a dupatta i thought this was one?

Don't be troubled

Dear Lucky ji

Sat Siri Akal.

Unfortunately, the communication in Punjab and our personal situation did not allow us to meet but as you say that must have been the 'Will of God'. It is possible that when you went to Gurdwara Nadha Sahib Patshahi Dasvee, (Panchkula), we were also there for about 1 hour but I could not make contact.

I am not sure at present when we will be next in India but it is possible in the next 6 to 9 months. Next time, I will let you know in good time. It will be good to meet other Sikhiwiki users. I will be most grateful to you if you could arrange that.

Your English is fine; I was able understand everything and regarding "Mehman Nawazi", that was fine as well - I know that you have respect for other Sikhs and for me and that is all that matter.

Thank you for writing. I will try and ring you in the next week. Kind regards & Guru's fateh, Hari Singh 05:48, 18 January 2008 (MST)

was dupatta the correct one

thanks for the screen name explain, here is a site i sometimes like to refer to a very good english word etymology with even some references to sanskrit words. Allenwalla 20:44, 18 January 2008 (MST)SSA

You are always most helpful

SSA, Hpt lucky ji, have questions on Gurdwara Shahid Burj (Bhai Jiwan Singh) saw your name first in history , i added comments in discussion, i touched up the faded photo and divided . i do not know, nehai samajtha hai what the 3rd part in photo is? I will add back, if needed, i need a caption, any help would be greatly appreciated. Please excuse my attempt at Hindi or Urdu as i do not know any Punjabi Rab Raakah.Allenwalla 00:34, 23 January 2008 (MST)

Abou typing sihari in gurmukhi unicode font at panjabi wikipedia site

Hpt Lucky Ji, SSA. Pease reda my correspondence at pa.wikipedia site which has been reproduced below.

  • ਗ੝ਰੂ ਸਵਾਰੇ ਹਰਪ੝ਰੀਤ ਜੀ,

ਯੂਨੀਕੋਡ ਫੌਂਟ ਵਿਚ ਗ੝ਰਮ੝ਖੀ ਕੀ ਕਰਨ ਲਈ ਤ੝ਸੀਂ ਗ੝ਗਲ ਵਿਚ virtual keyboard ਵਰਤ ਸਕਦੇ ਹੋ |--Guglani ੧੬:੧੬, ੧੪ ਜਨਵਰੀ ੨੦੦੮ (UTC)

  • ਹਰਪ੝ਰੀਤ ਲਕੀ ਜੀ, ਸਤਿ ਸ੝ਰੀ ਅਕਾਲ। ਤ੝ਹਾਡਾ ਪੰਜਾਬੀ ਵਿਕੀਪੀਡੀਆ ਵਿਚ ਯੋਗਦਾਨ ਲਈ ਬਹ੝ਤ ਸਵਾਗਤ ਹੈ।ਇਸ ਦੇ ਯੋਗਦਾਨ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲੇ ਬਹ੝ਤ ਘਟ ਹਨ। ਕਿਰਪਾ ਕਰਕੇ ਯੋਗਦਾਨ ਜਾਰੀ ਰਖਣਾ।ਪੰਜਾਬੀ ਵਿਚ ਸਿਹਾਰੀ ਯੂਨਿਕੋਡ ਫਾਂਟ ਵਿਚ ਟਾਈਪ ਕਰਣ ਵਿਚ ਅਕਸਰ ਭ੝ਲੇਖਾ ਲਗ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ। ਇਸ ਸੰਬੰਧ ਵਿਚ ਮੈਂ ਵੀ ਝਡਮਿਨਿਸਟਰੇਟਰ ਸ੝ਖ ਤੌਂ ਮਦਦ ਲਈ ਹੈ। ਤ੝ਸੀਂ ਵੀ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਕਰਕੇ ਸਿਹਾਰੀ ਟਾਈਪ ਕਰਨ ਦਾ ਜੇ ਧਿਆਨ ਰਖੋਗੇ ਤਾਂ ਸ਼ਬਦਾਂ ਵਿਚ ਸਿਹਾਰੀ ਠੀਕ ਥਾਂ ਤੇ ਦਿਸੇਗੀ। ਇਸ ਸੰਬੰਧ ਵਿਚ ਸ੝ਖ ਜੀ ਨਾਲ ਹੋਝ ਮੇਰੇ ਸੰਬਾਦ ਦੀ ਟੂਕ ਮੈਂ ਥਲੇ ਦਿਤੀ ਹੈ।

Quote"[ਸੋਧ] DIFFICULTIES IN UNICODE AND MISTAKES OF SIHARI AND BIHARI MATRA In all pages visible in gurmukhi the vowel of Sihari (chhotee ee) is not correctly put in. please look into the software . what is the problem in conversion.

How to use unicode fonts it si difficult to grasp please explain. Wheter installing unicde font ,will it not interfere with our normally working panjabi fonts in my machine.

I wish to contribute but because of such limitations am not able to contribute.

--Guglani ੧੪:੨੯, ੨੧ ਨਵੰਬਰ ੨੦੦੫ (UTC)

The problems with vowel positioning is not a problem with the web site. It is caused by your computer not being set up correctly for Gurmukhi. Please read this guide: [1]to see if you can get it working. I recommend you install the phonetic keyboard layout. And no, it won't affect your existing fonts. Sukh 20:02, ੨੧ ਨਵੰਬਰ ੨੦੦੫ (UTC)"unquote

ਉਮੀਦ ਕਰਦਾ ਹਾਂ ਤ੝ਸੀਂ ਮੇਰੇ ਸ੝ਝਾਅ ਨੂੰ ਸਹੀ ਮਹਿਨਿਆਂ ਵਿਚ ਸਮਝੋਗੇ ਤੇ ਆਪਣੇ ਯੋਗਦਾਨਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਸਹੀ ਕਰ ਲਵੋਗੇ ਜਿਨ੝ਹਾਂ ਵਿਚ ਗ੝ਰੂ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ,ਸਿੱਖ ਆਦਿ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਸਿਹਾਰੀ ਦੇ ਕਾਰਨ ਕਰਕੇ ਸਹੀ ਦਿਖਾਈ ਨਹੀਂ ਦੇ ਰਹੇ।--Guglani ੦੮:੦੯, ੨੩ ਜਨਵਰੀ ੨੦੦੮ (UTC) --Guglani 01:14, 23 January 2008 (MST)

Gurmukhi fonts not available and sihar and bihari in unicode punjabi fonts

Hpt Lucky Ji, SSA

  • My first suggestion is when you are away from home computer and are not able to use Gurmukhi Fonts then for typing some words in messages etc you may use virtual keyboard in Google search engine.This is an application which is available from Google free and can be used fro typing Gurmukhi without actually loading your compter with Fonts.
  • My second suggestion was ,please do contribute at pa.wikipedia but please while typing please key in sihari and bihari at place after the alphabet on which you want to apply then and only then it will display correctly in unicode font which is used in pa.wikipedia.

Other wise all words will display wrongly in site which is now happening in articles placed by you on site.You can give your phone number on your private mail to me then i will be able to explain better how you can improve your punjabi typing on pa.wikipedia site.But please do contribute .With best wishes --Guglani 01:33, 24 January 2008 (MST) replied at your mail ID please. .--Guglani 05:21, 24 January 2008 (MST)

Dr. Diwan Singh Kalepani

Harpreet ji, SSA

Many thanks for bringing this obscure history to our attention. It is amazing how evil man can become when he forgets God. Your trip was most rewarding to us (the SikhiWiki sangat) as it reminds us to keep close to the Guru so that He can give us the strength to tackle the great amount of evil in the world. I salute Diwan Singh ji for his determined stand. May we remember his brave deeds always and may his family continue to flourish.

I hope you had a great time on the Andaman Islands. Kind regards, Hari Singh 12:39, 4 February 2008 (MST)

Deletion Done

SSA Lucky ji,

The deletion has been done. Sorry, I never noticed it until you sent the message. Regarding the moderation, I was hoping that with a face to face meeting we could have discussed the long term development of the site. There is no position like a moderator at present within this software. I will try and discuss this with some more technical Singhs and decide how we move forward. Perhaps we need to move a more complex forum type software. I will try and find out & let you know as soon I have some answers. Unfortunately, the software does not at present allow different intermediary level of users like moderator, or junior, senior, etc. I will explore and let you know. Many thanks and kind regards, Hari Singh 09:51, 7 February 2008 (MST)

wiki on Bhai Mardana

In 1534, Mardana, fell ill at Kartarpur The sickness was intense and it was clear that he would not survive. As he was born a Muslim Guru Nanak is said to have asked him how to dispose of his body, and Mardana is said to have left the choice to his Guru. Then the Guru is supposed to have asked ? . "Shall I make a tomb to make you famous in the world?" Mardana is said to have replied that having given him freedom why did the guru want to put his body in a tomb. The next morning Mardana is said to have died.

It is said that The Guru had his body consigned to the river Ravi, and had hymns sung and karha prashad, the sacrament, distributed among the mourners. He consoled Mardana's family including his son Shahzada, asking them not to weep as Mardana had returned to his heavenly home. Mardana also wrote poetry. One of his compositions appears in Guru Granth Sahib in Bihdgare ki Var along with two others of Guru Nanak's addressed to Mardana. As per the composition Mardana is convinced that an evil body may be cleansed of sin in sangat (GG, 553).

i don't know if you have acess to wikipedia Sardarji, so i just sent this bit to you.SSAAllenwalla 11:47, 7 February 2008 (MST)


Veer ji


Tusi sanu yaad kita,thanks Tusi te Paapi veer ji ne kiha si ki Gurdwar Sahib de darshan karva deo ,meri koshish si ki jaldi to jaldi photo load kar deva , per veer ji time nahi si ja ke click karan da.Hun start kita jad bi time lagda hai ,duty to bapis aa kephoto click kar lenda ha.Hale 3 hi Gurdwara Sahib de load kite han,20 to ute han sirf city vich. meri koshish hai jisde resolution clear nahi hoega usnu mur to click kar lavang,pl das dena.

Baaki sab vadia tusi sunao life kida chaldi.

--Sarbjeet Singh 10:04, 8 February 2008 (MST)

Interesting questions

Sardarji, you raise some iteresting questions in my mind. first of all what is agyani? best i can make of the word is fire born which i'm sure is incorrect.

2nd. is are we truly our brothers keepers? must we act in such a way that an ignorant person can't make a mistake. i.e. say someone plays, an actor, say Hrithik Roshan or better yet a Sikh actor, even better a famous Keshdhari Sikh actor (sorry i don't know any names) plays Guru Har Gobind or Guru Gobind Singh in a movie and then as you say a ignorant or agyani person/s start to pray to him when they see him on the street. Do we not allow it because we corrupt the ignorant. So do we dumb down ourselves to save others.

This seems akin, to me, as say a nation, because young and old men in it are full of lust, orders that all it's women must were abayas or burkas just so the lust filled minds of the men don't get tempted. and then this imaginary nation sets up a police force of dirty minded older men who get to beat, harass and even rape the women they catch talking to a man they are not related to. Actually i believe the taliban does this and in Sa'udi Arabia a few weeks ago the men even raped the man as well just to make sure he was punished as well.

Seems to me that this is what Guru Nanak rebelled against in the janeu ceremony--the stupid idea that women (his sister and mother) were not able to think, act and participate equally as did men.

That the Brahmin men were in effect using the excuse to have their way and control women.

It seems that if we don't allow someone to play jesus, because an ignorant person might pray to him we are not allowing that person to use 'free will'. As you said some Sikhs said of Guru Gobind Singhji's comments, i believe Maharaja Ranjit Singh said the same thing and went ahead and built Gurdwaras anyway, so what if Guru Gobind Singh says that, i'm the one that gets to chose to go to hell or jahannum. just some more thoughts.

I hear of Christians trying to convert Sikhs to 'save them', and i read from a Sikh on today that no one could reach Sachkhand less they read Bani and become a Sikh. at dinner the other nite, chinese new year, a Christian across the table among his hosts who were Buddhist Chinese was talking of how many Chinese they were, his church, saving each day in China, totally clueless of anyone's feelings. SSAAllenwalla 10:51, 8 February 2008 (MST)

re your questions

What do you think

Just your view. An inscription concerning Guru nanak has been found in Istanbul turkey, its just on western shore of Istanbul on the shore of the Bosporus (cattle crossing). To reach there Guru nanak would have to travel through Jordan, Israel, plaestine, Syria and in return he reached azerbaizan in russia then enters iraq, Iran, Turkmenistan, Afghanistan & Pakistan to his native. Well my first question Guru nanak if travel by foot how much day it takes to cover so long journey???

As Moses wandered for 40 years trying to get from Egypt to where Isreal is now, I have no idea but i would one could do it in one or two years with stops along the way. How long did it take Alexander to go from greece to fight Porus and back to die at Takht de Jam sheet? Interesting reading Sir Richard's Burton's account of his travel to Makkah it's on the net in english - he daekened his skin and had himself circumcised to pass. He was careful to have a cover that looked like a Qu'ran for his notebooks as he wrote as the Arabs were very suspicious or superstitious of anyone who could write.

I read the article here on the plaque which seemed to refer to another Nanak according to the author at the end. Nanak seems to have been a common name for people born at their paternal (or maternal - i forget) grandparents' home. As in Nanika and Guru Nanak's names. In Java and Malasia which were once Hindu then Muslim - Anak- means son. Does namak mean jahannum in Punjabi? If so that accounts for several stories in books, i have and Durrani's comments on Sikhs and where they came from as they, fell on them in the middle of the night at 12 o'clock like warriors so powerful and scary that they could only imagine them to be from jahannum. Richard burton's caravan stopped at night when all his arab companions refused to travel as Mahomet had said that was when evil creatures were about - jins and such. That would explain Guru Gobind Singh's excape from Chamkaur and the fear his tari raised among the Muslims.

  • How did he reach mecca?? From Karachi he took boat and reached jeddah or he travveled along sea shore oman, yemen then saudi????

ans. What i have read is that he used the standard trip described for hundreds of years before Guru Nanak where dhows woul travel from all of Indias and sind's ports on to the persian gulf some to and throug Irak and others would then travel by boat around arabia up the red sea to Jeddah or grandmother's town as it is known. articles i have read here have said Jeddah, is it in the Janamshakis?

  • One more thing enters my mind Khuhram shahr guru nanak went and that is on south of iran if guru nanak went baghdad in iraq and went there on south of iran then why he go to north in tehran or masshad............and if he went from baghdad to north of iran then when he covered Khuhrm sehar and bushehar. West Journey is bit confusing. Ans. this is confusing to me to. I think Guru Nanak was just an adventuer an explorer spreading his message who went where ever he wished.
  • Ok suppose from Medina in saudi arabia he went directly to Baghdad in iraq and did not visit Turkey, russia or syria then also the above point rises. He visits mashad by many historians, He visit Khoram and bushsr by many historians and he visited Syria and palestine also by many historians. Ans. Again i would look at their sources.

Due to Muslim countries they just washed away the guru nanak's related places or material. No inscriptions in Mecca, Medina, Jeddah, Russia, Afghanistan even(Hail Taliban). Instances found in Iran, Iraq, Turkey and others are just vanished or washed away. route is a bit confusing to me. Yep, beginning with the Bhamian statues of Gautama and the recent explosion in the Kyber Pass area where the Phathans or talibaan tried to destroy bhudist inscriptions.

I imagine that if Osama and the Taliban Al Qeada types ever take Egypt they would even try to blow up the pyramids as there predecessors attempted to blow the face of the Sphinx.

What your mind says..........user:hpt_lucky

and i think you are right that Amir Khan would have looked more the part of Akbar.Allenwalla 16:44, 8 February 2008 (MST)

and your english is getting better, in English vowels are very important- in Punjabi you might spell Babar, Babur, Baber all would be understood. Lately i have noticed you saying nobuddy for nobody here no buddy means - nehi yaar, if Guru Nanak had had his way everyone would be buddies. As it is even Sikhs, Christians, Muslims, have troubles being buddies in their own religion, let alone with others' religionsAllenwalla 16:44, 8 February 2008 (MST) i speak or understand a little word or two of Hindi, Gujarati,Urdu , etc.. I have many funny instances of mistakes where words are pronounced different than i think. a good example is - jabi - key - which i pronounce as in Pan-jabi, apparently telling people to go to get away from me. As i did not know of the Cha-bi. SSAAllenwalla 16:44, 8 February 2008 (MST)

Veer ji ur queries are realastic , will be back 2 u shortly

--Sarbjeet Singh user:sarbjeet_1313me 22:57, 8 February 2008 (MST)

Wikimapia and What do think

Bhai sahib ji,

I agree wikimapia is improving all the time and would be nice to have a similar facility on SikhiWiki. But, I think it will require a lot of effort. I am not even sure how we would do it!

We have Gurdwara Map which is based on Google maps - this was developed/implemented by Ash Singh who also co developed Rate my Turban. I think both these technologies will be very similar and I don't think we should spent a lot of time on two competing map facility. Why not just stick to what we have.

The other thing is that we can link back from wikimapia to Sikhwiki - this will bring more people to the Guru message.

Thanks for inviting me to Sikhiwiki:Project Guru Nanak Dev. I will join that and post article that I will try and find soon.

I think it is great to post historical Gurdwaras and they teach us the history of the Gurus & other great people.

I agree Allenwala ji is going good work - everyday! superstar, No Barnstar, yeap! Sarabjeet Singh is also keeping us posted on sikhi in jammu and kashmir. I think things are going well. We have almost 70,000 hits monthly; 21k UK, 17k USA, 11k India, 9k Canada, etc. But, we need to reach a lot more people.

Well my first question Guru nanak if travel by foot how much day it takes to cover so long journey?

Guru Nanak's travels to the Middle East
click to enlarge

If you look at the Google earth, you will see that this is about 6000 miles (9600 kms). On foot, one can cover about 15 miles (24 kms)per day on foot and about 30 miles (48 kms) on horse. So it would take 200 to 400 days depending on whether you walk or use a horse. This excludes the journey by boat (from Karachi to Yemen) - which is faster then walking, atleast as good as a horse. So it must have taken Guru Nanak about 2 years to do the journey by foot and boat comfortably.

About the exact route, I think the map is about correct but I will try and do a more detailed one with various stages.

I do not think we can blame anyone for the absence of details - it is up to us as Sikhs to do the research - its nothing to do with Muslims - if anything, Pakistan has well preserved the G/W there! I think it is our own fault.

Thanks for the inspiration, I will try and find more. Can you look for some books in Chandigarh about Guru sahib travels - I went to great bookshop - I think it was sector 35? they had great books.

regards, Hari Singh 20:54, 9 February 2008 (MST)

Veer ji


Ur r8 about Guru sahib how he travelled such a long distance.nobody tried to discover such things. Dear during my visit to Ladakh i was also very much surprised how Guru sahib has reached by China,when it is difficult to reach thier by raod via srinagar.Every year the road is closed from nov to june due to excessive snowfall.fro Jammu it takes 3 days to reach their. where Guru sahib meditated their is no basti only hills covered with snow.their r many unanswered questions,needs to explore such things.

--Sarbjeet Singh user:sarbjeet_1313me 21:52, 9 February 2008 (MST)

did you see disscussion page

Bhai Joga Singh disscussion page. Interesting article on GurNanak and Martin Luther never heard of such a possible talk as most books i read even suspect the Guru's trip to Makkah was a myth. I would like to (will) read more on this.

use the photo or just trash but i made a few suggestions on disscussion page of Gurwara Bhai Joga SinghAllenwalla 11:45, 20 February 2008 (MST)


Hi Lucky, SSA

Thanks for the message. Please you must take photos of historic Gurdwaras as they given us a lot of information about our history. I will try and arrange to send a digital camera with my tayaji when he comes to Punjab in the next 2 weeks. Please collect the camera from him in mid-March 08 as soon as he is in Chahal Kalan. It will be nice to have pictures of more Gurdwaras in Punjab.

Also, the history of Guru Nanak; please try and find a good book on this so that we can put important facts about the life of our founder Guru.

Life is keeping well in the UK and I hope that everyone in your family is also in chardikala! Kind regards, Hari Singh 15:06, 20 February 2008 (MST)

The Sikhnet offer probably only applies if the pictures are for Sikhnet - but we want them here on Sikhiwiki for the whole world to see and use - I have already ordered the camera and it will arrive in the next few days. I can't return it now. Let us just do the Guru's job and then we will discuss it when I come to Punjab next. It is the Guru's work - so just don't worry - He provides!
When I was in Punjab, I covered a few Gurdwaras and the pictures are great - The whole world can see the beautiful places & read the history - So please just accept it in Guru's name and do His Work! Regards, Hari Singh 20:10, 20 February 2008 (MST)
feekar nahee karna - sabh Malik da hath. Let us just move forward and then we will see! I will let you know when Taya ji is coming & then we will arrange things over the phone or email. Thanks, Hari Singh 21:09, 20 February 2008 (MST)
The server may be in Florida but GMS lives in New Mexico, 1000's Kms away! When a decision is made on the server, cost and efficiency are most important - location does not matter. Kind regards, Hari Singh 19:19, 21 February 2008 (MST)

only said i read opinion of several Sikh writers

i have no way to know myself. when i first read the story of GurNanak and his feet towards tht Ka 'aba when he replied then turn my feet in some direction that is not God's - i thought this was a beautiful statement of all the world being God's abode. Since then i have read stories of the Guru flying across rivers, a similar tale is told of Shri Gautama and that the whole world including the Ka'aba spun around Guru Nanak as if he were the sun, Kepler's and Copernicus' center of our system, as several old Hindus' a thousand years before the Greeks.Allenwalla 16:28, 21 February 2008 (MST)


There is a lot of tidying up to do but due to lack to time, we have to first concentrate on getting a maximum number of Sikhi articles, then we will look at what needs or does not need to be on SikhiWiki. We can then have long discussions on this point - AT present, it is best to leave it until a later date.

Good luck in Hoshiarpur. I hope you get some good photos of Gurdwaras. Speak soon. regards, Hari Singh 12:54, 23 February 2008 (MST)

Photos - It is up to you regarding SikhiWiki tag - But if you do put it make it small and as a watermark or translucent print - normally it is at bottom right side. I have chosen to release all my work Khanda & ek-onkar symbols & all photos including 5Ks to the public domain so as to build a public library of these pictures for public & students to use without any restrictions - These can be uploaded to Flickr or wikipedia common.
We get about 2000 visitors a day to SikhiWiki & 67,000 per month with 220,000 pages view per month - which is a good result but some more would not hurt! but it not 2 lakh per day! Good luck in Hoshiarpur. fateh, Hari Singh 12:40, 24 February 2008 (MST)

Just hoped you were going to expand article

SSA, Hpt lucky ji, the Allah who condenms everyone to hell who does not follow him as 'Allah', practise Islam, have himself circumcized and eat meat only of animals killed by a long tortuous death as ritualistic prayers are chanted (hates dogs, would kill every pig in the world if they ever get their stated goal and condones the killing of women and children — anyone who opposes Islamic beliefs, seems far from being the mercifull and forgiving God i believe in, the one that is called Waheguru who i believe Sikhs also hold to be a God of love as well.

I know that as a Sikh you are foresworn to protect each person's religious rights, but it is hard for me to want to give the Tal-i-ban, for instance, a safe place in which to murder women just because they see ones' bare ankle beneath their burka and to banish the flying of kites!!

Well, say one gives them several provinces in Hellman, in which they may be in a majority, both you and i know that their goal is to have your and my family bow to their ways - as the wife on the youtube video in Saudi Arabia, far more liberal than the Talibaan, says - "Islam allows no music! There goes the Harmonium, the SGGS and the Vedas as their Rasul only OKed the Book of the Christians and the Jews (Guru Nanak was unknown to him) and the tablas, all of which i enjoy a lot. no color in clothes, white for men and black for women. no education for women, and no work for them. And believe me circumcism for an adult can be quite painful. That is why Paul changed the Lord's covenant for his 'chosen' people,the Jews, from circumcism to one 'of the heart' as he could not talk adult males into doing this when becoming Christians. Kahbaadah, Kahbaadah (trying to say beware not the game) as they used to yell over the walls to the Sikhs and Hindus during the Partition.

Not really meaning to be heavy about this, or trying to beat the Nagara, as i like the color of Holi and 'Hola Mohalla'. Have a good day.Allenwalla

Moderate Muslims?? maybe if they are serious, still their goal is to convert everyone? My Muslim friend says the terrorists are nuts.


Sat Sri Akal Harpreet Singh ji

First things first - the camera is already with my tayaji in Birmingham - so its too late to stop that - let us leave it to Waheguru now - if it gets to Punjab then please collect it if not then fine as well - I will let you know after about Tuesday when tayaji will have got to Punjab.

Secondly, the logo is just great - it's not too big to be obstructive but it is there to tell people about Sikhiwiki. Well done - I think we should put it on all the pictures that we produce ourselves. Please tell me which package you use so I can try the same. Good work!

Please look at my flickr site and see what you think - I have also created a SikhiWiki flickr account so that we can both upload all our Sikhi pictures here. I have sent you the login details by sms. If you like the facility, I will upgrade to a pro account. Please send me your email account to [email protected]

Thanks your help in progressing Sikhi. May Waheguru bless you for your dedication. Guru mahar karan tuhada tay. Hari Singh 15:15, 29 February 2008 (MST)

Camera - Let us wait until Tuesday then we will see what options the Guru has for us. Please don't worry - everything is by His Will. Please send me an email so I can contact you directly or I will use the phone. Tayaji will not be able to use as he is 80 years old and know nothing about technology. Let us wait until Tuesday! Don't talk to your dad or anyone else about this yet. Guru tay chhad tho. Guru will solve this problem.

I love the photos - I cannot tell you how wonderful it is to watch on photos the sacred places connected with our Gurus. Unfortunately, as many of us are based away from Punjab, we will never have enough time to cover the 350 golden years history of the Sikhs ourselves so these photos and articles are the only way to witness these holy places.

The reason to upload to flickr is that it is a specialist resource just for pictures and we can upload high resolution pictures. On SikhiWiki we can only upload less than 1m resolution while at flickr there is no limit. Also the process of uploading is very fast and easy. I have uploaded 100's of photos by spending just a few minutes. Then all these pictures are available for all the world instantly. We can see how to overcome your upload limit. I have a friend a Crossroad Panchkula Hotel, I will sort something with him if that becomes a problem.

I think documenting all our sacred places is very important and if you can help, that will be fantastic - But please concentrate on your studies as well because that comes first. Please only spend a 2-3 hours a week on SikhiWiki - the rest must go on studies. Keep well, I will ring you after Tuesday. Regards, Hari Singh 06:11, 1 March 2008 (MST)

Sir, picture w/out big wire

Text to be added by Hpt_lucky ji

SSA. Harpreet ji,i thought big wire got in way, as i know shot could not be made without wire. Did you take pix, You and Sarbjeet are busy here and do many good pages. hope this is of some use / straightened a bit for lens correction. if you do not like tag could change. regardsAllenwalla 20:57, 1 March 2008 (MST)added guy wires back in, but noticed i missed one on left as camera is not capable of catching them as the sunlight burns them out/ i can remove them and the shadow. Good nite my friend.

Don't know if you got to see my questions for you on page Gurudwara Chheharta Sahib. i see the second photo of persian wheel is still there. i will remove tommorrow and revert to your earlier version. richard

Thank you for visiting Tayaji

Sat Sri Akal Harpreet Singh ji,

Many thanks for visiting Tayaji. I know it was a long journey for you but hopefully with Guru's kirpa, everything was accomplished without too much trouble. I know when we went for the wedding to Hoshiarpur from our village, it took a long time as we had to go through Banga, Garhshankar and then the better road to Hoshiarpur. I am most grateful for your uudham and may Waheguru continue to assist us in our mission to make the world more aware of the Guru's message.

I am so happy that you met Tayaji, had a long discussion with him and took his picture. As you saw, he is very direct in his approach and does not believe in rituals or in blind faith. Although uneducated and a sahajdhari, he is very intelligent and has some very endearing qualities; he has worked hard all his life to establish his family. One of my nephew's is a newly qualified medical doctor; all his children and grand-children are hard working, productive members of the community committed to the path of righteousness.

I am sure he enjoyed the experience of meeting you. Please always remember that your studies come first and then SikhiWiki. Only work on SikhiWiki when you have finished the work required for your studies. Only then will you satisfy our Guru, your parents and us, your friends.

May Waheguru bless you and your friend for the effort. Let us see how things work out and the results we get. But, please do not rush or overcommit to this side of life as your focus needs to remain with your education.

Kind regards, Hari Singh 10:42, 12 March 2008 (MDT)

Goodnight, i guess

Sat Shri Akaal Licky ji. thanks for the note. I see you have been very busy in the wiki. Yes the endings for both were very violent, but even in america the seens of violence are usualy not shown on tv or movies as the camera turns or the sounds are heard and the looks on observers faces. ect.

I read of the Thoa Khalsa testimony last night, from '47 where many either took afim or asked others to kill them or shot or kirpanned all there dear relatives and loved ones, only to have soldiers and trucks show up to save them an hour later. This was terribly violent, and a movie could possibly be made but probably hasn't. Attendance for such a film would probably be low and the film not profitable for it would be very depressing and make anyone's Chardi Kala a little hard to sustain.

Were you the one with the pictures of the special Rath crossing India with the weapons. ect., of Guru Gobind Singh ji? Looking forward to seeing the photos added. Raab RakahAllenwalla 07:15, 14 March 2008 (MDT) richard

Yes, I did see the picture

And you are very right Mel Gibson financed the film which no one was going to distribute, because of the violence. But Mel went to the more radical or conservative Christians and a drive was started where the film was shown in Churches with people demanding its release. The film made Mel one of the richest men in Hollywood. Preachers all over America pushed their congregations to get every one out to see the film. Many people felt that seeing the violence they almost felt it themselves and for many it was very moving.

Of course Mel is 'very religious', i think a Catholic, but as you probably heard, in a fit of drunkedness and carousing, he said quite a lot of nasty remarks about the Jews, of which Jesus was one. The film was rare in this sort of violence being shown.

I doubt that Sikhs would feel good about seeing such a film on the Gurus and then hearing that the director was later drunk and throwing around nasty remarks about Sikhs. Actually i think this would cause a horrible outrage probably far worse than the stink that Mel causedAllenwalla 16:45, 14 March 2008 (MDT) i saw your user page today for the first time and will have to locate you on the map. The pictures were very good, was the horse's hair or mane coloured? Please add a few descriptions and hope you catch the procession.

Sat Shri Akaal

Lucky ji always good to hear from you. like in the Hadiths and the stories of Jesus they were probably written by men who had an investment in people believing them long after the passing of Ram Rai. maybe they wrote them later and many others added to the list. The Muslims executed several writters of Hadiths who were just making them up to profit-- as many deras and Babas seem to be doing in Punjab today.

A hadith has to have an attestation traced back to someone who 'heard' the rasul say it. in our law courts we call even that hear-say. Guru Arjan was by compiling the Adi Granth trying to get rid of all the false bani which imposters had been busily adding.

I can understand, that if any of the copius miracles of Ram Rai had actually been done, why his father got so angered with him (not forgetting the chane in the Guru's Bani). For most of the 'miracles' he would have been doing things people believe only God could/can do. That is the paradox for if Ram Rai could actually make Aurangzeb 'see the Ka'abba and describe it acurately, even down to the location of 'al Ha'jarul'Aswad to the Hajjis -- people might think he was stilling some of God's powers. Of course how could he do this without God's allowing it.

Sad that for a moment of Glory before Aurangzeb he ended up not as the Guru but forever being ingloryous. I have to wonder that as he contiued to spread the teachings of Guru Nanak throught the rest of his life--he must have been responsible for many becomimg Sikhs. If so were they appalled when they learned they had talked to someone that was now a pariah for them.

Thanks for taking the time to do a translation and for getting back to me, it always reminds me to go to your page where i can see your posting of new pictures i get to view. richard

Photos at Chamkaur sahib

Sat Sri Akal Lucky ji,

Everything here in the UK is fine - sorry have been busy with a wedding of close relation so have been away from home for several days. With Waheguru's kirpa, I hope everyone is well in Punjab and that your family is keeping in chardikala and studies are going great.

Thanks for uploading beautiful photos of chamkaur sahib. I would like to mention 2 minor points:-

  • 1. I think the black border with is distracting and surplus as the logo is sufficient; looks pleasant and links the picture to our site.
  • 2. The photo of the notice has a little text cut off in the bottom left corner which may be annoying to any person who wants to read the whole of the notice. I would suggest that we take a wider shot and then edit this on the computer - see original photo and the edited version.

You have done an excellent job. Well done! These pictures provide darsham of the holy places to all the Sikh sangat especially those who live far away from India. Slowly, we will have a complete gallery of all the important historical Gurdwaras. Thank you. Hari Singh 07:27, 19 March 2008 (MDT)

Gurdwara Tarhi Sahib

Sat Shri Akaal, Lucky ji i see you must have been to Gurdwara Tarhi Sahib lately,the portrait of the clap is a nice one. when i first came across this page i thought the gurdwara photo looked pretty bad as someone had left white boxes in corners and painted blue over the towers on both sides. I made a poor, admitidly, attempt spending about 3 hours painting in the sides in again. today i see the photo is back. thats the last time i wiil waste on such an effort.

wondering why you didn't take another shot while there. as surely the efforts at rebuilding the Gurdwara must have made some progress. richardAllenwalla 17:06, 19 March 2008 (MDT)

photo were people were sprayed out

at first the black spray patterns looked like a tagged wall, finally realized people? were xed out/you will have to re add logo /border, ect.

use if you want my attemp is not much better as i do not know details behing the sprayed areas. please remove if you do not use ,richard

Shahidganj xed out hpt.jpg

Photoshop CS

Hi Lucky ji, i just use photoshop and 61 years of being an artist. in the picture of the Gurdwara with the big wire one just takes a section nearby and moves to cover the wire. the people in the Gurdwara were done in the same way but as much was destroyed or brushed over i had to just guess. the brush and the clone tool also help. wondered what you are studying you are light years ahead of me in the language that structures these pages. glad to see your many pictures with your new camera. Raab Rakah richardAllenwalla 07:24, 26 March 2008 (MDT) in the world of photoshop i am a rank amatuer. trying to teach myself as i go.

Fatehgarh sahib

Sat Sri Akal Harpreet

Hope all is well with you and family. Great to hear that to will be going to Fatehgarh Sahib. If you need new batteries, please let me know as my niece may be coming to Punjab - Hoshiarpur next month. Look forward to new pictures - Goodluck - hope the weather is good. Raab Raakha, Hari Singh 19:21, 27 March 2008 (MDT)

AOW - Gurdwara Shaheed Dr. Diwan Singh

Hi Harpreet

Great photos and article - Is now on the main page - Check it out! Many thanks, Hari Singh 20:23, 27 March 2008 (MDT)

Lucky ji

Was going to tell you to check out the article and your pix on the Andaman islands but i see you already have a note from Hari Singh/ i thought the recent visit might be yours wanted to add your name if so. Also in keeping with your wanting your images to be credited to sikhiwiki i moved the newer photo and switched the sky writing in script and added a credit so anyone using the photo might leave the credit there you are credited in the history of the image. If i had you here i could teach you all i know about photoshop in a few minutes.

One other question, please check the article Pothi as there are several questions over words and spelling i am not sure of. thanks for letting me know of the events at the Andamans.

The only mention of any attack on the Indian area, that i knew of, was one recorded in the logs of a Nihon Kaigun submarine which surfaced and lobbed a few shells into Columbo, Sri Lanka.Allenwalla 04:32, 28 March 2008 (MDT)

More photos

Sat Sri Akal Lucky ji,

Thanks for uploading the 4 photos. The indoor photos are good but the outside photos appear a little dark. I will try my luck with photoshop and attempt to make this brighter. Looking for the next instalment when you get time from your studies, which must take priority. Many thanks and kind regards, Hari Singh 06:31, 3 April 2008 (MDT)

Good morning

SSA, was just reading a story wondering who this man was and why was he being pursued Only the rifles with burst function gave me a clue. How are you my friend,Allenwalla 07:08, 4 April 2008 (MDT)



Kindly see Jagriti Yatra at Jammu

--user:sarbjeet_1313me 06:05, 5 April 2008 (MDT)

Quite an argument and a lot of research

SSA, Lucky ji, thanks again for the link, most facinating. If one was too want to make such a case up for this happening, all the dates, sites are plausible and i would like to believe such had happened. My whole point is that much came out of India and we in the west are never even taught of it, except those who were either well off enough (money, support) to go to India and find a Guru, Hindi or Sikh, or to have been exposed to the many varied Gurus who came to America and England.

It boggles my mind that i can read or see thousands of words in Sanskrit, Urdu, Brahmi, Punjabi, Farci and watch them all migrate to the west, when was the migration, where there many over thousands of years. That's what i am researching. Sir William Jones did not say European-Indo and i think there was a reason for that. He would have been laughed out of India and the British Raj had he gone so far as to credit Sanskrit and India as not the brother of but the Parent of all, certainly most, language and religious customs, as i may well be when i ever get around to writing my book.

I track knowledge and languages and many many times, india, not some imagined PIE base, that people make up by tracking several language commonalities back pre India and the areas of the Hindu Kush and J & K.

It would be nice to think that Guru Nanak helped in Kepler's postulations re the sun centered solar system of ours. And that he helped Martin Luther get the Ideas he nailed to the doors, which saw many common beliefs merge in the Sikhi and Protestant religions, but Indian thinkers were thinking of this a thousand or several thousands of more years before this. While the Arabs get the worded credit for our numerals, (everyone--not!) knows that the numerals and the concept of zero (shunya) emerged in India and S. America only. Color, Rang --or the love of color came to Mexico with an Indian girl taken back with her saris, which the women of a city near mexico city fell in love with.

With the prevaling currents i think that many Indian sailors were blown to S. America long before the advent of the Portugese and Spanish Navigators. Long before Da Gama reached India's shores, the arabs and the chinese had been, along with the Greeks, Romans and Hebrews, trading there.

Best i can tell, i believe that tea originated in India and was carried to China by buddhist monks-a belief the Japanese and I share.

My worry over Guru Nanak and a trip to Rome,ect. with the Ottoman Khalifa or Badishah is that there is no notes from the Badshah's diarists, who counted every mohur and noted every day's activity for the rulers. If such can be found then no one would doubt the visit. I believe Guru Nanak to be a great man who shared common views with Jesus. I think Guru Nanak said something like, ' make all men your sect and nothing less.' though my mind can't bring forth the quote right now.

Jesus was crucified on a cross, some say a stake, if Jesus were killed here say in America in the Twenties or Punjab in the Twenties--in America would Christians wear little Golden Electric chairs, or the Punjabis (if there were many who believed in Jesus in the Punjab -- would they wear Nooses around their necks - little Gold or silver or steel nooses; I think not! For the cross is an old representative symbol, as is the Svas Tikha. The cross is simply one line crossing another, maybe a bridge over a river, we are all born after our mothers' water breaks--the Chinese and Japanese kanji or symbol for birth shows a baby being born into a flow of water from the mother. (If you read the cross as if it is Arabic you have the 'Big one or Matma, the decending stroke as Aleph (for Allah) and the small crossing stroke-one's litle Atma crossing or returning to Allah- That one is akin to reading the Iranian flag, which is also susposed to be the tulip that grows over the grave of a Shaheedi from a Martyr's blood, that myth did not enter Sikhi because of the cremation custom.)

As the Sikhs looked out over Amritsar and saw Crosses on the Missionary buldings and churches were they upset, did they see young Dileep Singh being sneaked away and converted to a farangi religion or did they see, as several Gurus spoke of this life, in this world of God, this gift for jiva, the culmination of, as some believe, of 8.4 million lives or did they listen to the many Sikh Gurus who spoke of crossing souls over the world ocean. See the word (cross) in there--the greeks even had a river one had to cross to get to a friendly hell where one only stayed for a while. All through the middle ages and later the dead of Europe and even later in America uttar (or is it uppar, i forget , its late) had coins put on their eyes, the coins where Charon's fee, he was the boatman who ferried the dead accross the river Stix. Sorry for my bad spelling and Grammar, i'm needing to get some sleep. As Hillary Clinton said , speaking on education, (she shared at least one belief with Bhindranwale) he probably said something similar to her (now running for President) but in Punjabi rather thanin emglish--she said, "it takes a village" - to raise and educate a kid. Was it in the Guru Kul (Kool) that the upper caste kids before Guru Nanak's time were educated or in the 'Gramma' learning their father's trade with all their extended 'aunties and uncles' helping in their education.

Time for some sleep, will be glad to help in your efforts, Raab Rakah, Richard.Allenwalla and yes some Christians are, as are probably some Sikhs, non deserving of the name and only wear the symbols but do not walk the walk of their leaders whether Guru or Jesus. I like that the man you spoke of asked them to bring a picture of Jesus, an obvious referance to his beard. Except for his turban, i suspect not many Americans are aware of the uncut and long hair of Sikhs, the Sardar could have also pointed to Jesus' long hair. There are rotten apples in every barrel- hard for me, at times to remember, as someone said, dislike or condemn the actions, not the man who is lost in them. SSA please delete this when you get a chance as i don't want to fill anyone's page with my ramblings.

Jagriti Yatra at R S Pura

Veer ji,


Jagriti Yatra WAS at R S Pura YESTERDAY, TODAY the yatra has reached back to jammu,after moving towards two famous Gurdwara Sahib tomorow it wil proceed to SAMBA AND RAMGARH.THE YATRA WILL BE HAVING A NIGHT STAY AT KATHUA ON 7 APRIL. On 8 April it will enter to Punjab again.

I will try to cover it uptp Kathua. --user:sarbjeet_1313me 01:23, 6 April 2008 (MDT)

sat sri akal

sat sri akal ji

gurdwara kali devi was a mandir, but when the statue fell twice or thrice many hindus became sikhs and turned the mandir into a gurdwara

but as u know in most gurdwaras of pakistan prakash of maharaj doesnt take place, so this is not an exception

and thx.. i'll keep upgrading those articles...

Sunnybondsinghjalwehra 03:08, 6 April 2008 (MDT)


:Thanks for the welcome. Koolkat 10:34, 6 April 2008 (MDT)

Fatehgarh sahib

Sat Sri Akal Lucky ji

Malik di baksish dah naal, sab sukh dah which haan. Life is going and going well - thanks for asking. Hopeful we are all making some good use of our time on earth by doing a bit of Guru's seva. Guru's blessings have resulted in some very dedicated sewdars here at SikhiWiki who put in a lot of their spare time into the wonderful venture. May this continue!

Regarding Fatehgarh sahib, please look at my photos here at Flickr and add to this as best as is possible.

Gurdwara Bhai Joga Singh looks good and a wonderful lesson can be learnt from this isthan. I will also work on this article as I think this can become a FA. Is it possible to get a better exposed picture of the front of this G/W?

Please look after yourself. May Waheguru's baksish accompany you always. Regards, das Hari Singh 18:12, 6 April 2008 (MDT)

Thanks for the Wonderful pics

Sat Sri Akal Lucky ji

Beautiful Photos. Many thanks for uploading more pictures of Gurdwara Bhai Joga Singh and Gurdwara Fatehgarh Sahib. Most of these have come out really clear. As you say, G B Joga Singh must be in a very congested area and so it is difficult to get a wide shoot. May be if someone has a wide angle lens, we can try this sometime in the future?

Thanks for a wonderful effort. Please now concentrate on your exams as these always should come first.

Regarding the errors, I had the same problem which is why I started uploading to Flickr as there were no errors there and it was a one click operation. Then I could select the exact size of picture I needed for SikhiWiki at a lower res. while Flickr had the high definition photo.

Also, it was a good idea to put the photos into a sub folder on your User page. This allows viewing a little faster. I think it would be even better if we further sub-divide them further so we have one theme for each sub-folder. Folder User:Hpt_lucky going into sub-folder for each Gurdwara.

Kind regards and again many thanks. A job very well done! Hari Singh 10:02, 7 April 2008 (MDT)

Deh shiva bar mohe

u make no sense at all

shiva in that sentence means GOD not the hindu god, because all gurus rejected hindu gods!!!!!!!!!

hindus have 330 million gods and goddesses Sunnybondsinghjalwehra 13:45, 7 April 2008 (MDT)

Enjoy your photos thanks

Good to see parts or detailsAllenwalla 23:22, 7 April 2008 (MDT)


As shiva or Shiv means akal purakh, and Hari means Akal Purakh, Takhur means Akal Purakh etc within the Guru Granth Sahib jee, in this shabad by Guru Gobind Singh jee, Shiva refers to Akal Purakh and not the Hindu Diety. In this shabad there is no veechar of the Hindu god.

Shiv in Gurbani can mean parmatama for example: Jugat Shiv Raihta (1407) to remain fixed in Akal purakh.

Where a story is given regarding Shiva, then in gurbani it can be referring to the Hindu God Shiva: (Shiv kai baan shir katioo)

Shiv in the Guru Granth Sahib can mean Shakti, Bhai Vir Singh jee in his Guru Granth Sahib Kosh gives Shatki as one of the meanings for Shiva. Akal Purakh represents Shatki, its the attribute of Akal Purakh. Shiv can also mean knowledge, however in the Shabad Deh Shiva bar mohe hai, I think it means shakti (akal purakh). Look at Bhai Vir Singh jees kosh for more on the word and where it comes from.

When looking at the dasam granth jee, we can find the answers of what Shiva means in this shabad: ਨਮੋ ਕਾਰਿਤਕਯਾਨੀ ਸਿਵਾ ਸੀਤਲਾਯੰ ॥੧੦॥੨੨੯॥

Thou art the power of Kartikeya and Shiva etc.! I salute thee.10.229. (Chandi Chitra

Only Akal Purakh is saluted by Guru Gobind Singh jee. People try and be clever by picking out certain lines without reading the whole composition of manipulating it. Write at the start of the Composition, Guru jee always made it clear for us in the dasam granth what his thoughts were for example:

Pritam bhagauri Simar kai Guru nanak .... Pauri 1 Chandi di var

Khanda Pritmai saj kai jin sabh saisar upaya (pauri 2) chandi di var

Both these pauri are only in praise of Akal Purakh and the Gurus.

If we read the dasam granth compositions front to back rather than back to front, people would not get into such confusion.

This is propaganda (proper gainda...gainda = hippopautamus) by those Ashutosh boot lickers. Throughout Sahib Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee we have Raam, Gopal, Gobind, Maadho, Murari and scores of names of Akaal Purakh which these guys interpret as Gurujee glorifying avtars, whereas they infact bring out only a particular attribute/quality of Akaal Purakh (we can't comprehend ALL His qualities/attributes). These are called sifaati naam, as they do sift (glorify) of Waheguru. I always thought its Siva and not Shiva, but someone correct me on that one. Siva refers to Akaal Purakh, not the deity Shiv Ji. Why Gurujee wrote Chandi di Vaar, from my limited knowledge, is because it describes a war which Chandi fought with demons. Why would Gurujee write the title as one thing and the details totally different to the title? Gurujee also said in Dasam Granth "Mai na Ganeshe pritham manaun, Kishan Bishan kab hu neh dhiyaun".

(Special thanks to Mehtab and Ghorandar veerji)

Sunnybondsinghjalwehra 13:44, 8 April 2008 (MDT)

Saajna Divas

Dear brother'

waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh,

Khalsa de sajna devas de lakh lakh mubarkhan hoven aap ji ate aap ji de parivar nu.

--user:sarbjeet_1313me 20:37, 13 April 2008 (MDT)

user message

Anmol Ratan

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh Lucky ji,

Many thanks for such a great picture. I will do an English translation and write any article about the sacrifices and the price put on the Sikhs for their heads with hair. Thanks for a most beautiful poem and message. Shaabash chotaa veer. Guru ang sang rahway. das, Hari Singh 17:32, 20 April 2008 (MDT)

Lucky photos Template:

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh Lucky ji

I have created a new template to point to your photo gallery.

Photos and template used at Gurdwara Pudha Sahib. Hope you like it! Regards, Hari Singh 14:36, 23 April 2008 (MDT)

Dastar message photo is Featured Photo! Many thanks for taking that snap - it's a great message! Hari Singh 14:44, 23 April 2008 (MDT)
"Sikhiwiki is run by 3HO and they only allow edits to be done by their people" This is completely untrue as you know. All the active users on SikhiWiki are not part of 3HO and we have been editing and adding to SikhiWiki for a long time and in my case for many years. The statement is a lie! So please stop these rumours and tell everyone that this is an independent site which is here to spread the true message of the Gurus. We accepts and we will help all other Sikhi sites and organisations so that the name of Sikhi can be spread far and wide.
Regarding the photos, please do not worry, Guru will guide us. Please do your exams with dedication and afterwards we will see what the Guru has planned for us. Studies and Work come first; then comes spreading the message of the Guru! Dheean nal preparation kar nee. Exams full marks honah cheedaa-na. Don't slacken now - Ardas kar-ka - give the most to the preparation. Rest is in Guru's hands. I will pray for your best result. Speak to you after the exams. Malik bakshish karan; bhala hovah.
"Tell me one thing my user id is hpt_lucky then after using tag (Lucky), why only word lucky picked by MW??." If you want hpt_lucky then you should use tag: (Hpt Lucky) Regards, Hari Singh 17:31, 26 April 2008 (MDT)

Harpreet, just saw your note on 3HO

Sardar ji, tell the girl who made that comment that she does not have the truth behind her words, I have done quite a bit of 'editing' on sikhiwiki and i do not belong to the organization and am not a Sikh. no one has ever stopped my contributions and i have on the contrary often been thanked.

i never expected any reward for my efforts on Sikhiwiki yet after you, i was given a barnstar, as well. So tell her she doesn't know of what she speaks. sikhiwiki may be an effort started by people of the organization you speak of, but if so, no one is pushing anything other than supporting Shiki and the messages and teachings of the 11 Gurus, in my opinion.

Thanks for your bursts of photography for only through your efforts, obviously supported by the people hosting this site have i been able to see many of the places you can see with your own eyes. regards richard

Sat Shri Akaal

Sat Sri Akal Lucky ji

Waheguru dee mahar naal, sabh chardikala dhay which hhan. With Guru's bakshish, life is also going pretty smoothly.

It's good to know that your exams are going well; I hope you pull some good results. It will be great after the exams to see more photos of harmandar sahib especially the other four sarovars and their Gurdwaras in Amritsar apart from darbar sahib. Also other nearby G/Ws. Any activity is only possible with Waheguru mahar - so we need to accepts Guru's hukam quickly and without too much suffering!

We had a discussion on articles on other languages which you must have missed. The translation system on the left hand side apparently is not very good and Sunny Singh had requested that we set-up a sub-language system like wikipedia. So these articles are preparations for this venture.

If you wish to start punjabi or urdu articles there is a big need in the section on these languages at wikipedia and they have very few articles at present in the punjabi section - see here - with only 115 pages. It makes good sense to put these Punjabi articles there rather than at SikhiWiki which is primarily intended and was designed for the western language systems. Once we have the technology for other languages, then this may change as we will be able to effectively split the system by language. see previous proposal regarding this at SikhiWiki:User_Message_3 and the discussion at SikhiWiki_talk:User_Message_3

Keep in chardikala. regards, Hari Singhtalk 18:55, 10 May 2008 (MDT)

5 more gurdwara

Sat Sri Akal Lucky ji,

Many thanks for the pictures; they look absolutely wonderful. I like the way you have taken picture of the signs and the notice boards as this captures the place and history. Also the front elevation and the darbar sahib. Great work! I will update the history and other details in due course. Exam dah wich , Maharaj bakshish karan. Let's us know the result. Harmandar sahib - when Guru wishes. Look after yourself. Love to all, Hari Singhtalk 13:30, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Kushee dhee news ha ka aap da plan baan gay-ya. I hope you have a good trip to all the sacred gurdwaras. I wish i was with you! The second best thing will be to see the photos. It will nice to see these beautiful shrines of the Guru. The sarovars that are not covered - please, we need photos of those. Plus if you get a photo of a good location map of the g/w in amritsar, we can add that to help yatrees. Gurfateh, Hari Singhtalk 18:15, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

We are fine

SSA, Lucky ji, so how did the exams go?Allenwalla 18:58, 18 May 2008 (UTC)


ਵਹਿਗ੝ਰੂ ਜੀ ਕਾ ਖਾਲਸਾ

ਵਹਿਗ੝ਰੂ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਫਤਿਹ,,,,,,,ਜੀ

Congratulations on crossing 4000 Articles .

--user:sarbjeet_1313me 04:10, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Tarna dal

SSA, Lucky ji, i admired the photo of the fellow with the horse when i first saw you post it. wondered who what where. So the Tarna Dal had horses but couldn't this picture use a caption who/what/where? Especially if still related to the subject.Allenwalla 22:07, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

It is at once natural and desirable; it is typical Hindu. The Sindhi page

Sounds almost like praise or admiration for someone including Hindu practises in their beliefs. I get very confused and disheartened sometimes reading stories here. For a religion that is susposed to protect or respect all religions there is a great deal of hate expressed for Hindus even in the choice of negative words for Hindus whenever mentioned. So this article on Sindhis is ify. Can't really tell if it is positive or negative. As Guru Nanak was a Hindu trying to turn negative things about Hinduism around and the next several Gurus were all born Hindus it is strange that some Hindus are not admired. Sure there were many bad Hindus, still are bad Hindus, as there are bad Christians, Sikhs, ect. but there were also Hindus who risked their lives harbouring Sikhs in 1984-5.

All the praise i see for killing people even a Sikh burning someone alive while other Sikhs cheered as he burned seems to not fit with the teachings of the Gurus. And now i see there is a fight over the replacement for the Sant that died the other day. Seems lately that the more i read now, not here but in the news, there is more killing of Sikhs by other Sikhs.Allenwalla 02:08, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

on the article on someone named vivekananda

I thought it was a repulsive article, where the author gets to repeat a lot of nasty stuff and not take any responsibility for publishing it. I thankfully knew nothing of vivekananda looks like the article is here only because in the last paragraph …It is written that vivekananda approved sikhism a seprate religon…. so was such a purile article posted just to say he had said sikhism was a seperate religion. then he says …The heroism shown by shivaji & Gurugobind singh was a tribute to hindu power.… It then takes away the only positive thing in the article.

It would be good to add the author's name to the page.Allenwalla 02:08, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Tarna Dal, typo

SSA, Harpreet ji, i like the was the picture w/ horse is looking better in the page this morning. Last nite at 3am i was lookinf for the word tarna in my Punjabi-English dictionary when i came across nawaab = defined as Baron or Nawaab - so i finally found out why people on sikhiwiki and wikipedia had been putting Baron in articles on the misldars. If you go to the english side there is no entry for the word baron. So apparently some folks have the same dictionary i do.

On the article on vivekanada it was all the talk about his private parts and sex life that i found repugnant, other info in the page was useful. i guess i could edit all the sex stuff out. Still i would enter a credit for the author.

And i would tell at least where the Sikh and horse photo was taken. adding the logo was probably good as i think someone might want to steal the photo. of course they could easily take the logo out. you would know but no one else would. There was one photo, probably still in history of the scotsman in Maharaja Ranjit Singhs army which had a big RSS in the background/ giant letters so light that i had to point it out - they were so subtle that no one had ever taken notice of them. i redid the photo to take them out, very difficult. a similar big light letters thing might make it so they would be very difficult to take out. do you have a good copy of the sikhiwiki logo you could post. richard

Ishnaan was the second thing i was going to ask about saw bathing in your post. Ish - i know as God or love, skrt? i think the info you added on the photo and current leader would be good to add.


SSA, Harpreet, checked out the page on wikiped and it doesn't have India or Punjab listed. It points out that each of the nations was just adapting or coping the word altering its sound. what the article does not point out that is that shortly before Napoleon and after that rulers throughout Europe, Russia, including the arabs ones conquered by Napoleon, and the Russians, Turks and Persians thought that french was the coolest language and all the rulers became fluent in french, hired french nanies for their children, ect.

I rarely see anyone saying - Sikh Churches, just odd that until the french joined the Army of M. Ranjit Singh the Sardars would have not used the word themselves. So any hope of Punjabi not dying as some 'patois' of Hindi or Sanskrit depends on using its words and not the would be 'occupiers' or assimilator's words. i know this is purposely written in English but i like to learn a bit of Punjabi occasionally.

Truth be told the word prob. derives from ber which comes from vir from veer-if i ever get to work on a book there will be more on that. richard-- and that probably gives us Ber lin?

nan jing/nan king/ pei k/jing

SSA, Harpreet ji, Tusi ki likhde ho? Could you give me the source of any research on Guru Nanak being in China. Nan 块 = south + Jing or King = 京 = capital (southern capital and Pei = 北 = north + king = 京 capital. northern capital. In japanese toh/to = 東 = east + kyŝ = 京 = capital or eastern capital - Tokyŝ. Dhaanvaad richard (please excuse my bad Punjabi)

Reply<Sikh Youth in the UK

Thanks for your comments!

East African Influence< What i meant by that was because my parents are from east africa, they also speak Swahili, which is common in east africa. So when we speak punjabi at home i use swahili words for some things instead of punjabi! Like....i call a plate a Sani. and a broom is a Fagiya, and a cooker is Jeeko.


As for sikh youth in the UK<< Generally where i live theres alot of racism. Especially when i was in primary school, because there is not much education about different religions in schools and collages.

Sikh youth here is divided,theres no pride in being a sikh and wearing dastaar and alot of boys cut their hair, drink too much, they should have a good time but they should also remember that when they leave the house they are a Sikh and representing the rest of the Sikh community.

There is also an issue for sikh girls, who are very vulnerable, especially in universities where muslim boys are paid thousands of pounds to convert sikh girls, some of the stories here are horrible. but there are 3 main ways the boys do this..

-drug, rape and take photos as evidence,then they threaten the girls and tell them if they do not convert their families will see the photos and their Izzat will be ruined.

-pretend to be a sikh, go out with the girls and then propose, after proposing they tell the girl that they are a muslim and in order to get married the girl has to convert.

-either pretend to be a sikh, or stay a muslim, but romance sikh girls very gradually and then get them pregnant etc etc..then ask them to convert so they can be married...

Then there is khalistan, alot of youth are angry about the situation in india and want khalistan, they believe in it very strongly..i suppose this is a good thing because it will bring alot of sikhs might help to make young sikhs more confident.

So theres alot of problems for us in the UK... but we manage..We're very lucky the British Govt are very tolerant and give everyone an equal amount of freedom...but sometimes the people can be a little bit ignorent.

what about life for sikhs in india (that is assuming you live in india...i could be wrong..tell me if i am!)?

Wjkk Wjkf, thanks for reading!

Rice prices double

Bha ji, Saw your addition on Dr. Gurdev Sinkh, is that his Barat party. Is he in center - i saw no mention of a marriage. was going to do a then and now awards graphic but he seems not to be a Kesh keeper (photo was of award at turn of century)--some say that removing hair (speaking of girls threading) makes one no longer a Sikh. So i did not make the picture as he is listed as a Sikh here. confused. richard could you- if you know add details on the picture? thanks Rab Rakaah. My wife is from town next to Davis CA rice fields line the river at Sacremento next to Davis and the special hardskin tomatoes grow in fields for miles to Yuba city almost crores upon crores thanks for the words on my one Punjabi sentence.

Sat sri akal << Reply =)

Sat sri akal paaji! Please dont apologise!

Paaji:- about khalistan, i think that the british govt know that we are not terrorists. The british know how loyal sikhs are, they have a very high respect for our society, many british people are also supportive of khalistan, there is a ralley in london next week, alot of ordinary white british people show their support also.

I know people left india to make money, sikhs left india to make money, but we dont belong here as sikhs. As sikhs Punjab is our home, so many people still care about punjab and love punjab.

I think, pakistan and india had riots, because freedom was pushed into their hands too soon, freedom is very dangerous, look at india and pakistan now? It wasnt prepared for independence and so the disorganisation meant many people were killed.

But khalistan does not have to be like that at all. If its created in the right way.

  • First the corruption between the Jathedar and his team at Anandpur needs to end.
  • A government needs to be set up, effective military and support from other countries to ensure protection.
  • it needs to be made clear that Khalistan means rule under the Khlasa, everyone will be welcome, everyone is equal and any kind of discrimination is not acceptable.
  • education needs to be effective, the best way to create change in mentality is education, if in schools in the punjab, childeren were taught about all religions, equally and fairly, there would not be any problem. From what i understand, the lines between religions are being blurred.

I know these ideas seem stupid and naive, but im sure that Guru kirpa, it'll happen when it happens as smoothly as possible.

this is going to be a veryy long discussion!! I'll give you my e-mail adress

thanks paaji, wjkk wjkf.

links to tomatoe researchers




[[5]] a very interesting story, largest collection of tomatoe seeds in world.

SSA, i grow tomatoes, several differant kinds, for my mother i use cages made from steel wire made in a grid for casting concrete driveways.

i mentioned the tomatoes because the Sikh Dr. worked on them while at U.C. Davis, the ones with a hard skin are very disease resistant and tough skinned. they grow on the ground no support. huge machines roll through the fields picking them up, the vines are composted into new soil. they then drop them in large trailers (75ft x 10ft x 6ft) regular tomatoes would be crushed by the weight. they are used in the canning industry for tomatoe sauce and the skins are used to make tomatoe paste--good for Italian style spaggetti sauce.

Apparently North Carolina State Univ. also has extensive research facilities as well.--first two links. Lately the rage in home gardens has been over 'heirloom' tomatoes. people say they taste better and have thinner skins than “regular tomatoes.” Consumers also have a nostalgic attraction to the “ole timey” varieties that Grandma used to grow.

I like the yellow ones best.

i can't answer the question on the Baraat picture?? The chin strap is a dead give away on the topi dastars. Rabb Raakha, richard Don't Hindu grooms use the fake turbans in weddings, except for the very different one they use in Bengal weddings.


your welcome Sunnybondsinghjalwehra 11:01, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Sorry - due to papa ji's ill health, have not been online regularly

Sat Sri Akal Lucky ji

Thanks for the message. I hope all is well with you and the whole of the family. As Papa ji is not very well, I have not been spending a lot of time online.

"Papaji has for 20 years been suffering from hypertension and has been on tablets to reduce his bp. Mamaji and Papaji are both about 78 and stay nearby and have been in very good health until about 3 weeks ago when Papaji fell due to very low blood pressure. Subsequently, we went to the hospital as an emergency but they could not find anything wrong. However, they stopped his bp tablets completely as they suspect that this may be resulting in the very low bp. Since then his bp is stable but he is still very unsteady on his feet. I have been staying at Papaji's place since then and monitoring his health."

He is very slowly making some progress but I think the fall may have caused other problems. For this reason I have not spent too much time on SikhiWiki.

I looked at Sikhism Facts and will do some work on this as soon as time permits.

I hope the exams went well and that you get great results. Hopefully, we may try to come again to Punjab in December. I will keep you informed. Please keep in chardikala. Rabb rahka, Hari Singhtalk 23:52, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

on turbans

Sardarji, My first thought on watching that movie was that nemo (which means no one) was a sikh but when he was doing math tek to kali i figured he was rajput. very few if any in hollywood would know the diff on turban styles. from what the turks and the persians called the cory-n-boss to the sikh style so i put that down to hollywood ignorence. not anything aimed at sikhs, you will notice that his character is positive. the dare said name a sikh not a singh. i guess rauda is similar to mona?? richard

Lucky ji, the current picture on main page is extremely racist and insulting to me, i am asshamed to see it on sikhiwiki posted by a Sikh. in making up the page it looked like an attempt by a male to control 'his women'. For a concept where Guru Nanak is refering to himself as a bride, not trying to control the behaviour of potential mates, i found the distortion distasteful. Why two (particularly white) european women- one in Panjabi clothing, looking like she had just done Pahul and another in a low cut danceskin leotard drinking a glass of wine were picked to illustrate Suchajee & Kuchajee or good and noble women vs. a bad and ignoble woman is beyond my understanding.

In the west Christian monks have for many centuries made wine, it is even used in church services (though usually it is replaced with grapejuice nowdays). Even the name the name Sharaab includes as does arab the word Raab.

The Arabs who condemn alcohol have rivers of wine waiting for them to drink in heaven. Yet the hyjackers who struck the towers went out drinking, on film, the night before. The Rasul forbade it promising plenty in Heavan as he knew they loved it too much.

So to take a young girl who may have a close relationship w/ God and use her picture calling her ignoble and evil seems wrong. She certainly is not dressed for a church or gurdwara. Is the picture used with permission, what would she think, would she want to sue sikhiwiki? With the reference to gold, silver, pearls and rubies it seems that a picture of Maharaja Ranjit Singh or his son Sher Singh who even took the jewels from his father's horses halters to make a beautiful emerald belt, on display in London, seem like more appropriate images to use.

How would you feel to look in the, say New York Times and see an article on terrorism and al Queada and see that someone had found a photo of Jarnail Singh standing by a howitzer with a garland of flowers and had picked that to illustrate the article. Even though he did not know anything about the man not even what his name was? I am assuming the girl drinking the wine was not a friend of the guy that made the graphic and did not give permission to use the photo.

I have always thought that it was the drinker not the drink that caused problems. I see people condemning, judging negatively those who trim their hair using the arguement that hair is a gift from God. Yet, i think it was you who was lamenting women using less covering predicting that we would get back to nudity soon. There is an old argument - if God had wanted us to fly, he would have given us wings. You could also argue that if God had wanted us to wear cloths he would not have us born naked.

Today I am very thankful that the Kartar put our eyes so deep in our skulls of hard bone. if i sound a little loopy (majnoon) today, i had a tree which was being cut to fall and hit me yesterday--i have a big black and nila anda today, swollen almost closed. Bahot kooni hai, my neighbor was cutting and suddenly pushed the tree section over. i was back a bit when suddenly an unseen limb from the other side twirled around and came straight for me. for a 62 yr. old guy i jumped pretty well but the limb won the K.O. Lucky for me that i wasn't killed.Allenwalla 19:02, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks again

SSA, Harpreet ji, the picture has been changed and i think is much more appropriate as she is clearly a Sikh or at least dressed as such. Now that you remind me of it, in the last bollywood movie i saw many of the dancers looked like russian, swedes and european nauch girls (the blond hair thing). I guess Mumbai is getting to be like Shanghai was in the 30s the nightlife party kind of city. Don't know much about Chandigarh though. Thank you for any effort you did to change the photo. I will have to thank Hari Singh for the change also. richard

I also wrote Sunny Singh about the show on 30days living in a Muslim family which i saw last nite. Since it was mostly Sikhs who were attacked, in ignorance, rather than the Muslims after 9/11 it would seem more appropriate for the show to be filmed with a Sikh family. The man became famous for his 30 days of eating only MacDonald's fast food--super sized. Rab Rakha. richard


SSA, Harpreet ji, i was not far enough from a tree about 60 footer when it fell in unexpected direction. 2 days later my eye is black above and below and swollen shut. Got knocked to ground lucky to be alive was a warning to be more careful. richard


Got to go to dentist was reading this story first amazing never seen any of this mentioned. will have to read more throughly. How are you today. Raab Rakha richard

Bhai Jasbir Singh

SSA, Harpreet ji, Did you write this page? i cannot understand -- Later on he shifted to khanna and settled his business.

i know khanna- as food or a place? anna - food /arabic do not understand settled his business?

something trajic happened to his parents? is the intention to say they were 'called' back to Akal Purack.?

Here at the Bhog service preachers say 'so and so/the deceased' was called back by God. tombstones go on graves with a name and dates- b and d. loved ones place flowers at the grave. Hindus have no graves but hang a picture of the loved one and drape it with flowers or a garland /mala . circular wreaths of flowers are sent to funerals by friends. Sikhs i guess do none of this as their areno graves or samadhs?Allenwalla 00:59, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Sat Shri Akaal, Harpreet ji, i have some questions need some info. can you help?

O Baba Atal, Pakkian Pakaian ghal.”

this is ranslated as--O Baba, the revered one, send us well-baked bread to satiate our hunger.

please translate



where does the prose come from?

O Lord! Thy Name is the wealth of the poor,
And the refuge of the homeless.
It is the honour of the lowly,
And the sustenance of the hungry souls.

is the above a plaque on the entrance? or elsewhere? is it said in homage to Baba Atal

is their an author or is it anonymous? is it in some text or Granth?

One more question -- is there a reason for 4 turns - around the parikrama as it has been recorded as four specifically ...WHY?

thanks for any help, richard

Thanks for the earlier answers

SSA, Harpreet ji, One more question from the story this day. what does standing with his hands folded mean. I know to make a bukk or an angeli but hands folded leaves me in confusion. Allenwalla 21:09, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Sant Baba Nihal Singh

SSA, Harpreet ji, the picture of Sant Baba Nihal Singh with the modern 'beauty shot' border. is just floating in the page on the Tarna Dal. I assume that he possibly the current leader of the Dal, but i dunno no. So i am not guessing, could you add a label in explanation of his photo's presence? thanks ®. since i like the sun and the Kara i am just going to use the so called 'copyright' symbol R in a circle instead of typing richard. easier ®. hope you have had a good day.

hands folded

Hi back, i just don't know what hands folded means. trying to picture what the man must have looked like, if i asked some one o 'fold' his hands what would he do? The guru must have known he wanted some boon as he stood with hands folded? things like he had his hands cupped like a bowl. or in fists or in his pockets.. just trying to get a picture of hangs folded..i can't seem to 'fold my hands..samaaj na hehai. will you add that he is the current leader? of the Tarna Dal. will check later. thanks®

oki guru granth sahib chadd khuh pichey bhajdey...translation?? could you add in Zahara Zahoor--the Cartoonist for the Daily times of Paak is named Zahoor--his cartoons are not so self evident.

thanks for the Yogi Bajan vidya

SSA, Bha ji, Thanks Mera Yaar, I now see what was meant by 'folding' i never have heard the praying hands refered to as folded. The old term which Guru Nanak would have known is called an angeli it is an old ancient mudra, the hands in his day were not pressed flat - palm to palm but included a hollow between the palms which had a deeper meaning that the scientific one of the film. But that is a nice thought as well.

To fold something the joint or bend (hinge) must be continuous. a sheet may be folded--a sheet of paper or a sheet of cloth. i suspose if our finger tips were continuous from left hand to right the praying hands could be said to be folded. A diploma, which i assume you are after, is called--diploma-- a paper folded.

diploma == c.1645, from L. diploma, from Gk. diploma "license, chart," originally "paper folded double," from diploun "to double, fold over," from diplos "double."

ek becomes do/een-twee/eins-zwei/un-deux/éka-dvá/ekko-do/eka-dvi/akh-zi/yk-do/ik-do/ chinese/japanese - =

interesting that as Muslims do their personal prayer (Du'A) their hands are separate palm up, fingers cupped upward-as if to ask for rain from Heaven. Almost as if they were reaching out to catch a siropa.

Thanks again i now know how the Guru knew that the dyer was hoping for a boon. ®


SSA Harpreetji, could you add the author and date of the page. It refers to the foregoing chapters. It currently rambles, has typos, is terribly long and i think has some valuable point to make which bores one to death trying to find it. it needs to be organized, question marks seem to have been substituted at some time for apostrophes, ect.

if i can track it down maybe seeing the whole this part will be better understood? thanks richard

trying to track it down i get only hundreds of topics on why Paakistan is being unfairly labeled as a terrorist haven. Everyone seems to be out for their destruction, ect. Allenwalla 14:06, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi Harpreet ji

SSA, Always glad to hear from you. Looked closer at picture. I get no answer. Strange head covering on two men. One has Kara - no beard. I had thought they were Sikhs protesting Hindutva art which relates Sikhi to Hinduism. Please kindly tell me what I am missing.

I don't think Hindutva attempts can destroy Sikhi. Stop trying to Destroy seems better wording.

If my changes to the captions are wrong please improve so I can understand - as you say get the answer. Are these men not Sikhs?

the last picture includes images I think are meant to depict Guru Nanak and Guru Hargobind or Guru Gobind Singh. The intent seems to be - don't pray to images - they are only imagination.

It says better to bow or pray to GurBani- how does one depict that.

Hard to depict the undepictable. I think most of us close our eyes to pray so we are not praying to some thing we see but to that which can't even be imagined.

Sorry for your trouble getting on the net. The videotape on the Mumbai shooting makes no sense to me. I see no long line of mercedes the 'Fake Baba' is said to travel in. Does he claim to be a Sikh. Has he claimed to be an Avatar of Guru Gobind Singh? Has he been arrested? Surprise to see even children slashing at his photos with Kirpans.

WAKAFA back to sleep. God bless!