User talk:Hari singh/ArchiveB

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first message

Everyone is fine here. I was reading research articles of Harpal Singh Kasoor on the website: Satguru at Makindu Sahib, he given many proofs to prove his points. His whole researches and material is available on the website. Though he claims(or may be mistakenly wrote) that Sixth Guru Hargobind also visited Africa and this is new saying in historians world. I Contacted a Historian Narinder Singh, he will give me details of Hargobind Visits and lifetime, and i will upload that here too.

I had a nice trip to Toka Sahib in Sirmaur district will upload it's images shortly. You kindly go through his website and tell if anything is logical their. You can contact with Harpal Singh too on his mail ID for furthur queries.

(Lucky 12:11, 16 March 2010 (UTC))

Baba Buddha

I have added {{Mergeto|article=Baba Buddha}} and {{Mergeto|article=Baba Buddha}} to the two articles. also were the Merge templates already created? I saw one for Merge but it seemed like only useful if suggesting to merge the information within article, so used the Merge template to make Template:Mergeto (to be used on articles that will be merged with another) and Template:Mergefrom (to be used on articles with which another will be merged). Is that okay? Gman124 00:41, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

Please help

Hari ji, I have made a box (check Baba Buddha) and added it to the page Baba Buddha. I still do not have my programs loaded on my computer. To make the box I had to use my wife's laptop which has the newest version of everything that I am not familiar with. Anyway my reason for doing the box is to limit edits while someone is doing something as complicated as combining articles.

In particular my new attempt apparently has several inches of white space included below the box. With whatever you edit the photos/illustrations with could you resize the box or even better make a new box with a similar message, perhaps adding a message that someone has undertaken the requested task.

People have egos and I would not like to be the source of getting rid of someones edits, done while I am working for what might be hours only to get the message - someone else has edited this box while you were working on it and then have to look for peoples' changes, while trying not to lose hours of work.

This seems to be a useful item for anyone. I saw the request, normally with the 24" screen I can open two pages side by side and read and combine easily. Also several programs edit text and check spelling - I have been educating my dictionary slowly with many punjabi, hindi and urdu, ect. words (english/roman script).

Thanks, Allenwalla 17:18, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

will erase in a few days.

Shai Sahib ji, please see below.

Baba Buddha ji (6 October 1506 was born on 6 October 1506 One day, when he was young, he was grazing cattle outside the village when Guru Nanak happened to pass by. According to Bhai Mani Singh's, Sikhan di Bhagat Mala (The Holy Sikh Jewels), Bura went up to him and, making obeisance with a bowl of milk as his offering, prayed to him saying:

The story below said that Bura (Baba Buddha ji ) was:

a small boy and Guru Nanak addressed him saying, You are only a child yet. -->The birth date of 1506 and the given date of the meeting of 1524, (when Guru Nanak Dev was 37) means he was 18 years old. A sentence or two later it is related that he was already married at 17 and spending time doing Seva at Kartarpur. Given that this is a story already woven into nearly Sikh site, I/we need to throughly check available dates, who gave them ect. A child of 6-9 being called Baba is very different from a young man of 18 being called Baba.

As currently stated:

"O sustainer of the poor! I am fortunate to have had a sight of you today. Absolve me now from the circuit of birth and death." The Guru said, You are only a child yet:.

But you talk so wisely." "Some soldiers set up camp by our village," replied Bura, "and they mowed down all our crops - ripe as well as unripe. Then it occurred to me that, when no one could check these indiscriminating soldiers, who would restrain death from laying his hand upon us, young or old." At this Guru Nanak pronounced the words: "You are not a child; you possess the wisdom of an old man." From that day, Bura, came to be known as Bhai Buddha, buddha in Punjabi means wise (wisdom usually only comes with age). Later, when advanced in years, he was known as Baba Buddha.

Bhai Buddha became a devoted disciple of Guru Nanak. His marriage at the age of seventeen at Achal, did not distract him from his chosen path and he spent more time at Kartarpur where Guru Nanak had taken up his abode.

You may have better books than I do. Please advise. Allenwalla 17:59, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks and will research as well

Hari ji, your dates agree with what I find as well. Thanks I've read the story several times, just when I think I've read every page, I come across ones I haven't seen.

The page titled Baba buddha sahib, is now empty - combined into the other article. Perhaps, the title, with caps added, should be redirected. Allenwalla 22:53, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

I read the other day about Hindus giving 'nick' names till a Grandfather could make a name. I know Sikhs now select a name from the Guru Granth. Would this custom have disappeared by the time of Baba Buddha. Could Bura have been a 'nick' name given at birth?

Horses, Elephants and Helicopters?

Not about a Sikh, but I thought you might enjoy this story, seems land speculation which because of a rapidly increasing population here in the US, made some cash out, and sell their family farms for Gold, is also making some wealthy in India as well.

vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh

I think you have redirected page Khalsa Kaal Purakh Ki Fauj to Khalsa Akaal Purakh Ki Fauj under section further thoughts. I am not getting why you have done that? or may be you have redirected pages wrongly. There is not a Single granth which supports line -> Khalsa Akal Purakh ki Fauj(i.e man made line not Gurmat), but Sarabloh Granth which contains Khalsa Mahima(Khalsa Mero Roop hai khas) having line Kaal purakh ki Fauj. If you want i can upload the page here for you, where it is clearly mentioned and i know you will do Justice with Guru's words by correcting the article yourself.

Bhul Chuk Maaf vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh (Editor 19:05, 20 March 2010 (UTC))

    • If you want me to upload and affix the copy of that page of Sarabloh Granth, i can do it for you? Is it required? and you must know a change of slight word changes some sense, moreover we are not Ram Raiyas, we should display truth only.

Bhul Chuk Maaf vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh (Editor 19:05, 20 March 2010 (UTC))

Sajjan Kumar to face trial

Thought this might be worth reading.

The former Congress MP,Sajjan Kumar, will face trial in the 1984 anti-Sikh riot cases as a Delhi court on Saturday referred the cases to a Special CBI Court, rejecting a plea of his.

As I only sleep for about 2 hours , I found this at 3:30 AM this morning. Though like any trial, one never knows the results, i am sure many will welcome the news. Allenwalla 07:34, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

NEW DELHI, March 20, 2010

Khalsa Kaal Purakh ki Fauj

vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh,
Sarabloh Granth is Khalsa roop granth. The Khalsa Mahima is present in Sarabloh Granth not in Dasam Bani. I think that article(Khalsa Mahima) also need to be corrected, moreover it is written same is copied from Amrit Keertani. Some websites is showing Khalsa Mahima as part of Dasam thats totally result of ignorance.

Page 1 Khalsa mahima begins here
Page 2 that shabad of khalsa mahima ends here

Sikhiwiki have to show truth as when people searches this website comes in top and it's not good, when the top website is displaying incorrect things.Kindly check these two image files. If any problem do reply.

Bhul Chuk Maaf(Editor 08:25, 21 March 2010 (UTC))

    • Well it's duty of sikhs to show truth. I am going to explore some true things which were preached wrong in past few decades. The Akal Purakh ki Fauj type people might thought that Sikhs would not able to read Sarabloh Granth so they keep on posting Akal Purakh in Amrit Kreertanis. thats we call Arth da Anarth

Bhul Chuk Maaf(Editor 04:43, 22 March 2010 (UTC))


  • Thanks, for correcting the article(Listening) and making it more meaningful. I am working more on this hope you will help in correcting language, and do work on Khalsa Kaal Purakh ki Fauj article. Is listening appropriate title or should it be ART of LISTENING? (Editor 16:27, 22 March 2010 (UTC))

Another story

Hari ji, My wife brought this story to my attention, thought you might enjoy. Its about an eatery in New Delhi where people could be eating cheaply, but it is now in threat of closing its doors.

An aging Sikh laments:,32068,52626066001_1943064,00.html

This is a news service or site I had never seen before, this second piece of video is also very to the point for all of India, J and K, Pakistan and the world:,32068,32006696001_1919999,00.html

Here the internet is very slow, Europe I believe has much faster speeds, occasionally these films suddenly stop, then resume half a minute later.

at the risk of boring you

Sardar ji, as I can't sit for very long, i do very little surfing. I do read several e-papers daily. Here, as is the entry above on a coffee shop, is another that I thought might be of interest. Unfortunately Parvez Rahim did not leave an e-mail address.

I only fear my posting will bore you to death and that you are being courteous and would never let me know otherwise.

Anyway as you have often posted things about musical forms, I sent the above. aw

bow down befor NISHAAN SAHIB

Sir ji,


A question from a regular orkutian in a forum in orkut sikhiwiki.

Should be bow down befor NISHAAN SAHIB? Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh I used to see most of the people in various Gurudwara Sahibs revolve around and bow down before Nishaan Sahib. Should this be done? As our gurus say we should bow down only in front of Sri Guru Granth Sahib and nothing else.

Could you tell the right answer please, kindly post in my user talk page, i will cpoy paste in orkut sikhiwiki with your reference.

Thanx. Guru Rakha,

--user:sarbjeet_1313me 16:07, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

Got the answer

Sir ji ,

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh,

as usual i got the instant reply from you,so nice for the beautiful answer.S.Mandeep Singh has replied to your answer as

Yup. Very True. I got my answer. Thanks for the clarification.

anyways how is the family,pay my kind regards to them,waheguru tuhanu hamesha chardi kala vich rakhe,thnx.

--user:sarbjeet_1313me 03:08, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

PS : Kindly upgrade the Active users list on your talk page as now its 2 years old

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

History Board at Kapal mochan Describes same event, even guru sahiban gave Hukamnama to Pundits which are still preserved their
  • First thing topic of article is wrong, nowhere it is mentioned in Charitar that this is about King of Sirmaur. It is about King(Rai) but not Sirmaur King
  • The Tale of King of Sirmaur is a historical Event from life of Guru Goind Singh. The History of Kapal Mochan shows clearly that it is related to Guru Gobind Singh. This history was agreed by all Sikh Sampardas including Akal Takhat, and it's very old history, before darshan singh entered in controversy he too saluted decision of Guru. I don't know why those lines are written their that This tale is not from the events in the Guru's life although some have projected this and related it to the period of the Guru's life in Paunta Sahib. As Guru Sahib entered some Chariters of his own life too in discussion. The Charitropakhyan showns manmatt and Gurmat, so collectively storied of guru times and older than that entered into opakhyan.
  • A Gurdwara is still their in kapal mochan and is very old which is witness of this event.

(Editor 13:15, 25 March 2010 (UTC))

Of marginal interest

Hari ji, this story has a very nice 'airbrushed' portrait (really beautiful work), but politics are at the core of the story.


King of Sirmaur

lol....Veer ji, when Emotions comes between then it's difficult to satisfy.
Have you read the History board of Kapal Mochan which i have uploaded for you?

Also, it is not in the style of Gurmat to "rob" someone of their property without proper due process.

This event happened because of few reasons. The people use to spoil Sarovars, by urinating around them and due to Rain all Mall Mootar comes in sarovar which was source of water to drink and same water is used in religious ceremonies. So Environmental awareness of Guru Gobind Singh made him play this Charitar. Eh Charitar Dharam vich reh ke khedya geya hai, Dharam to bahar nahi. Moreover they haven't robbed all they just removed some and maximum turbans falled in Stampede thats why turbans were washed. During that particular time guru sahib needed turban so both events happened simultaneously.

Secondly, Poetry have many flavours Veer Rass, Karuna Rass, Shingar Rass, Bhakti rass. Guru Gobind Singh was Good poet too and i think you know that. To explain GUrmat and Manmat Guru Gobind SIngh collected various stories including his too and put all them into that format.

Thirdly, In charitropakhyan there are 10 - 20 Male charitars too, If it is really explained by Mantri to King against women(Manmatti Ladies), then what those 20 Male charitars are doing there? and not all charitars about female but some are positive side too which contains Brahmgyan and Love. Guru sahib simply put whole stories to one package, Even Kekayi Charitar, Vishnu Charitar, Mohini Charitar etc. We have to think which is gurmat and which is manmatt. For that we should have Gurmat Vision and without it we will not able to interpret these charitars. The Charitar 71 is GUrmat nothing else, Gurmat vich reh ke Charitar khedna galat gal nahi and not every person can play it like GUru Gobind Singh Did.

WHat more Saboot you need(other than history board) to prove that this Charitar is related to Guru Gobind Singh?

(Editor 13:07, 26 March 2010 (UTC))


Veer Ji, Ki haal hai? Ghar sabh kiddan hai? Sukh saand hai??

Kirpaa kar ke Gurmat Moral of Story likongey, in this article Charitar_7#Moral_of_Story. Kindly Check this Template: Template:Charitar morals. If we will affix at top of every Charitar it would be better and will convey our message and our angle of interpretations. I want you to Kindly interpret all Stories and bring out Moral in light of Gurmat. Hope you will do so.

Hor gurmat life kiddan chaldi, koi gila shikwa maaf karna. Take care

(Lucky 18:52, 28 March 2010 (UTC))

    • Sabh Charhidi Kala he rehna chahida hai. Without 36 Mahapurkh and Patshahi 10 we could not think of truth(god). They showed us the way now it's our turn to guide ourselves. I am making 4 templates showing Numbering of charitars, we have to Do Gurmat interpretations and while writing interpretations of charitar do quote some gurmat line which could able to describe story.

English translation is not fully correct. I found much faults in translation but ya it would help you to understand concept but don't depend fully on english translation. This translation is done by Anti Dasam person so do read in punjabi and understand it.

Studies are going on, last two months and post graduation will finish. we talked on phone before 2 years, such a long time.

Veer ji what is difference between Story and Tale? Should saying Tale of King of sirmaur is right? or Charitar of King of Sirmaur is appropriate?(Lucky 16:21, 29 March 2010 (UTC))

Reading a book review

Bhai Sahib ji, Reading a book review this morning, I was surprised by the following lines--who?

Ernst also shares wonderful tidbits about the religious diversity that has long been a characteristic of Sufi culture.

Who knew, for example, that verses by Sufi poet Fariduddin Ganj-i-Shakar have been incorporated into the Sikh scripture Guru Granth Sahib?

Here the local county library will usually buy any book I request, but like the reviewer I like photos captioned. Allenwalla 15:26, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Border Guards meet in Amritsar

India-Pakistan meeting Amritsar 1.jpg
India Pak Meeting Amritsar 2.jpg

Bhai Sahib ji, this might be news worthy. One photo might be trimmed down to the top and sides of the banner - my photoshop is still not installed. the individual pictures were not captioned.

CS 5 Photo Shop, etc. is about to be released. We might update, as one new filter automatically cleans out problem areas in seconds. For instance wires in the photos of Gurdwaras could be removed in seconds - by a filter.

Story Dawn News:

While big talks are still going slow at least some exchanges are happening.

Raab Rakha, Allenwalla 19:38, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Sat Sri Akal

Kindly check the article. This was on one of charitar which was in controversy i.e Charitar_16, i have extracted Gurmat views from it. I Want you to add more and read Charitar to get more. Read Gobind Sadan Teeka, at least they have word to word pure interpretation. Please work on this article. This can be flash article. More Gurmat views should be extracted from it. (Lucky 20:17, 31 March 2010 (UTC))

Added a link

Hari Ji, I didn't know the part about 'KALASINGAS', but I know several Aggarwals in the Atlanta area, one an elderly gentleman who I like a lot.

Surely you have seen the below site. I found it very interesting. Glad the info helped, the info on Indian legal codes was on Wikipedia. April fools joke or not, the research was its own reward.

For stomach troubles my Doctor scoped my esophagus and stomach, (hiatial hernia) - prescription meds and over the counter remedies don't work well. Nights were often spent with my heart racing and terrible chest pain, with symptoms that mimic a heart attack.

Dr. Oz, a surgeon, a surgeon with a tv show, suggested taking vinegar, - awful idea for me! But one night when I was in agony (sure felt like a heart), I opened a jar of cornichons I had purchased a year ago [1], one little pickle ended the pressure immediately. I don't remember where I purchased that jar and now I can't find them anywhere, (check the added link, above) but hey sell over the net, perhaps they might help you as well.

For someone used to Indian food, these pickles may seem tame (very sour), but I like them. Have since found another brand (Maille) but they are not as good.

Anything with grease, bothers my wife as she had to have her gall bladder removed. (trivia) The mention of ghee reminds me of Damodara (and lobsters) who was particularly fond of butter, hence the dangerous human pyramidal climb during Holi, if i remember correctly.

Every time I read a report of an attack in Damodara (now a taliban hot spot) , the name of the town reminds me that the area was once part of India. Rope around the waist, a funny name for a town. Allenwalla 09:51, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

re. the added link to the Kenya page

  • Sikh Heritage in East Africa [2]

will delete later

Sat Sri Akal

Veer Ji, We will start with charitropakhyan at main page but after few days. You have brilliantly done with gurmat meanings of Triya Charitars. I want you to firstly start With MALE's Triya Charitar, Then we will continue with Female's Triya Charitar.

some things to keep in view:

  1. We are here to spread Positive messages of This Bani, dur to which it was composed by guru sahib.
  2. We should not let any Anti Dasam to spoil gurmat interpretation for their own motives.
  3. I want you to check people like Sunny Singh daod who could change article anytime, like he changed bachitar natak porition and confused with Poet Shyam and all other Emotional thoughts.
  4. Once we finish with one charitar in every aspect(Gurmat and explanation), it would be better to lock that charitar article and give previlege to only that user which can spread gurmat message in it.
  5. Charitar 16,21,22,23,71 seems nearer to GUru's life but these are not as all charitars are told as past like we say stories "EK RAJA HUNDA C", same is case in charitar. moreover if these are related to guru's life then it's not a big deal because in all these charitar male character is in limit of dharma, but no where it is proved that it is related to guru's life. i will bring all saboot in near future. so treat these 5 charitar incomplete.
  6. keep continuing the good work with other charitars and i am gaining reading your interpretation and will add what i know.

rabb rakha(Lucky 15:39, 3 April 2010 (UTC))

Reply: Veer ji i said that i don't feel it is related to Guru, but if it is related in any sense then i would not have any problem because the character(Rai) was in limits of Dharma. I will not promote guru in those charitars but it would be better to spill out gurmat from it like you are doing.

I will create few images for all charitars, which will have lines from charitar which have relation to gurmat. The language of Charitropakhyan is not acceptable by people, as you know manmati people would stick to it's language only but we do not have to find from where greedy dog belong our aim is how greedy dog act and how we could prevent ourselves from it.

The negative point which goes against charitropakhyan is the language which is Kaam prominient, thats why i call it a test of gurmat knowledge. Some charitars are so that i could not get their conclusion(due to lack of my gurmat knowledge) but i feel now you will add gurmat to it and i am to consulting more gurmukhs who are giving gurmat morals of it. Manmukhs are sticking to just language and history of charitars(history of greedy dog) but we should not stick to it.

Find the nature of Triya(Man and woman) in Triya Charitars and give message accordingly.

We have to work on Bachitar Natak too. It's totally gurmat based Natak but some guys are playing with our emotions to show wrong image of natak. I am working on main article of charitropakhyan. Do you feel that we should write Anti Charitropakhyan's view on this bani in main article or not?(Lucky 17:51, 3 April 2010 (UTC))

Again Reply: veer ji if we will create an anti article we will also considered as confuse platform in case of Charitropakhyan. In Main article we have Gurmat Description of Charitropakhayan and i am coming with more in few days. but if we will create an anti article it will makes anti people to visit the website and they blindly add much more which can confuse a begginer to sikhism. What we should do is to promote Gurmat knowledge. You have already given a bit anti description in beggining of article and thats enough. As we know few charitars are not historically correct and even linguistic problem is their but this all is for manmukhs we have not to go in history of these charitars. We have to take guidance of story. Now you tell if i will ask name of GREEDY dog in story The Greedy Dog, will you tel? It may happen may not, we should concern with moral to improve our character. Such Charitropakhyan will not harm you(Gurmukh) but it can harm youth easily because youth are most Kaamuk. They can easily go to wrong way thats why prerequisite is Guru granth, i am surprised how Darshan Singh's Vashna came out of him??

For us Rai is King rite now, we will learn more and will come to conclusion ourselves. Moreover sir one more thing if RAI means king guru gobind singh, then i think he was not any king. Rai of Anandpur was king of kahloor as anandpur as under king of kahloor. what you think?

words: You know There is no Ashleel word in dictionary of Doctor. For doctor eyes, ear, nose, abdomen, penis and toe all are same. He can discuss all words easily about pregnancy issue to sex related stuff. Our doctor is God and his Bhagats mera vaid guru govinda. in realm of god there is no Ashleel word, tere is no society, but it is difficult to convince anti dasam people. So better we convince ourslef. Sab kich ghar mei

Me upload Purakh charitar in few days and you have to find moral, what i will have i will upload.

(Lucky 19:32, 3 April 2010 (UTC))

Interesting article

As Sufism is being attacked in Yemen, Somalia, ect., this story on Bhutto is worth reading. /AW

Sikh Pilgrim Special

Over 1,000 Sikh pilgrims arrive in Pakistan

Thought this might fit in on current news, Allenwalla 15:20, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

I wish all of you a wonderful Baisakhi.

ndian Sikh pilgrims wave after boarding a train for Pakistan at a railway station in Amritsar on April 11, 2010. – AFP

Sat Sri Akal Veer Ji

How are you hope everything is fine. My internet was not working since friday, actually at home i have internet connection of reliance and their connection frquently got disconnect. Yesterday and day before it was not working at all.

I am happy that this is first website which is actually giving gurmat interpretations of dasam granth. Even you are finding TATT of Kalki avtar, i am behind you sir go on,,,,

Sir i was working on Baudh Avtar. I contacted gurmukhs and asked about this Avtar, they said me to read it carefully when i read it, i found it actually points not only to Siddarth Gautam Buddha but it is pointing to all those are preaching the TRUE god's message. If you are finding truth and you get JANAM PADARATH, you too are Baudh Avtar.

as i said before GUru Gobind Singh have changed whole Hindu Dictionary to Gurmat Dictionary so we have to apply Gurmat Dictionary on DASAM Bani, we could not apply Brahmin's dictionary on it. Kindly read the article and if any problem then please discuss and do the required corrections and additions.Incarnation 23

I will study Kalki avtar but after studying MACH, KACH etc avtars. Mach is not any FISH as in hindus and KACH is not any tortoise, these all are GUrmat words and only gurmat dictionary will give it's meaning.

I am giving all lines from Adi granth and Dasam Granth too to support views. GUru Granth Sahib says ""SODHE SIMRIT SHASHTAR SAGAL". Here in dasam granth GUru Gobind SIngh actually done it thoroughly, he cleaned Markandya Purana, Bhagwad Purana, Shiv Purana etc and gave esssence of these purans by applying gurmat methodology on them.

i was thinking why Hindu Kings were so against GUru Gobind Singh, this might be one of reasons like he says in 33 swaiyey in dasam bani:: "KAHE KO PAHAN(stone) POJAT HAI PASHU(Animal) PAHAN MEI PAREMSAR NAHI...

Dasam Granth Index: Sir you have put Brahm Avtar and Rudra Avtar under 24 Avtar, i think these are seperate banis??

read Chandi Charitar Ukat(i) Bilas, the first 10 lines will give you clear information about CHANDI. will see kalki avtar soon. Take care (Lucky 18:02, 11 April 2010 (UTC))

Another story

Once across the border it looks like the visa app is quite a wait. Allenwalla 14:32, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Sat Sri Akal

ki haal e?

Veer ji i was studying Guru Granth Sahib, people use to question about previous Incarnation of Guru Gobind Singh. I found some information about Guru Arjun Dev:

ਚਾਰਿ ਕ੝ੰਟ ਦਹ ਦਿਸਿ ਭ੝ਰਮਿਓ ਤਿਸ੝ ਬਿਨ੝ ਅਵਰ੝ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥
I wandered around the four corners of the world and in the ten directions, but I saw nothing except Him.

ਬੇਦ ਪ੝ਰਾਨ ਸਿਮ੝ਰਿਤਿ ਸ੝ਨੇ ਬਹ੝ ਬਿਧਿ ਕਰਉ ਬੀਚਾਰ੝ ॥
I listened to the Vedas, the Puraanas and the Simritees, and I pondered over them in so many ways.

The above i feel is not this incarnation of Guru, as history records say that Guru Arjun Dev never read vedas moreover they haven't gone in all directions. Guru Ji also said:

ਗਉੜੀ ਗ੝ਆਰੇਰੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥
Gauree Gwaarayree, Fifth Mehl:

ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਭਝ ਕੀਟ ਪਤੰਗਾ ॥
In so many incarnations, you were a worm and an insect;

ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਗਜ ਮੀਨ ਕ੝ਰੰਗਾ ॥
in so many incarnations, you were an elephant, a fish and a deer.

ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਪੰਖੀ ਸਰਪ ਹੋਇਓ ॥
In so many incarnations, you were a bird and a snake.

ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਹੈਵਰ ਬ੝ਰਿਖ ਜੋਇਓ ॥੧॥
In so many incarnations, you were yoked as an ox and a horse. ||1||

ਮਿਲ੝ ਜਗਦੀਸ ਮਿਲਨ ਕੀ ਬਰੀਆ ॥
Meet the Lord of the Universe - now is the time to meet Him.

ਚਿਰੰਕਾਲ ਇਹ ਦੇਹ ਸੰਜਰੀਆ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
After so very long, this human body was fashioned for you. ||1||Pause||

ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਸੈਲ ਗਿਰਿ ਕਰਿਆ ॥
In so many incarnations, you were rocks and mountains;

ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਗਰਭ ਹਿਰਿ ਖਰਿਆ ॥
in so many incarnations, you were aborted in the womb;

ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਸਾਖ ਕਰਿ ਉਪਾਇਆ ॥
in so many incarnations, you developed branches and leaves;

ਲਖ ਚਉਰਾਸੀਹ ਜੋਨਿ ਭ੝ਰਮਾਇਆ ॥੨॥
you wandered through 8.4 million incarnations. ||2||

ਸਾਧਸੰਗਿ ਭਇਓ ਜਨਮ੝ ਪਰਾਪਤਿ ॥
Through the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, you obtained this human life.

ਕਰਿ ਸੇਵਾ ਭਜ੝ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਗ੝ਰਮਤਿ ॥
Do seva - selfless service; follow the Guru's Teachings, and vibrate the Lord's Name, Har, Har.

ਤਿਆਗਿ ਮਾਨ੝ ਝੂਠ੝ ਅਭਿਮਾਨ੝ ॥
Abandon pride, falsehood and arrogance.

ਜੀਵਤ ਮਰਹਿ ਦਰਗਹ ਪਰਵਾਨ੝ ॥੩॥
Remain dead while yet alive, and you shall be welcomed in the Court of the Lord. ||3||

ਜੋ ਕਿਛ੝ ਹੋਆ ਸ੝ ਤ੝ਝ ਤੇ ਹੋਗ੝ ॥
Whatever has been, and whatever shall be, comes from You, Lord.

ਅਵਰ੝ ਨ ਦੂਜਾ ਕਰਣੈ ਜੋਗ੝ ॥
No one else can do anything at all.

ਤਾ ਮਿਲੀਝ ਜਾ ਲੈਹਿ ਮਿਲਾਇ ॥
We are united with You, when You unite us with Yourself.

ਕਹ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਗ੝ਣ ਗਾਇ ॥੪॥੩॥੭੨॥
Says Nanak, sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord, Har, Har. ||4||3||72||

If you will read in punjabi you will find the Guru Sahib is telling about himself, in english translation writer just wrote word (YOU), but these words ਹੋਇਓ ॥, ਜੋਇਓ ॥੧॥, ਕਰਿਆ ॥ etc. are used when person is telling about himself. Here Guru Arjun Dev ji is telling that he faced transmigration and took many form and in this birth he is able to attain god.

Ehde te veechar karo, because this salok is not pointing toward anyone(you or me) but here he is telling about himself. VEECHAR PESH KARO (Lucky 21:52, 14 April 2010 (UTC))

("humanity towards others")

Sardar ji, we were reading of a new calf. vegetarian restaurant called ubutu, today mera wife came across a reference to an operating system. We had not heard the word before, wondering what it meant we looked it up.

Here are a few links - possibly of marginal interest - Ubuntu reminding me of sarbat da bhala. / this is an interesting vocabulary - a veritable masala of differing languages- > definition of ubuntu - Southern African humanist philosophy that holds as its central tenet that a person is a person through other persons. (See box on the right above.)

This reminded me of the - it takes a village.

Rab Rakha, aw

from one page - Meaning

Archbishop Desmond Tutu offered a longer definition in a 1999 book:[1]

A person with Ubuntu is open and available to others, affirming of others, does not feel threatened that others are able and good, for he or she has a proper self-assurance that comes from knowing that he or she belongs in a greater whole and is diminished when others are humiliated or diminished, when others are tortured or oppressed.

Archbishop Desmond Tutu further explained Ubuntu in 2008:

One of the sayings in our country is Ubuntu - the essence of being human. Ubuntu speaks particularly about the fact that you can't exist as a human being in isolation. It speaks about our interconnectedness. You can't be human all by yourself, and when you have this quality - Ubuntu - you are known for your generosity.

We think of ourselves far too frequently as just individuals, separated from one another, whereas you are connected and what you do affects the whole world. When you do well, it spreads out; it is for the whole of humanity.

This may, of course, remind you of Sikhi

Re. questions over Langar at Golden Temple page

I made some edits to the article - but

"Loh langar tapde rahin" (may the hot plates of the langar remain ever in service).

This translation makes one think that hot plates (little electric cookers I used in my dorm room at college) are used to cook the meals in the Harmandar Sahib Langar. With the little Punjabi I can read - I would translate this - May the iron (cauldons) of the Langar always be hot (cooking food) or (in service).

Also the first part of the sentence below is confusing:

Aashima Seth Captured on film Belgian filmmakers, Valerie Berteau and Philippe Witjes were so impressed with the langar at the Darbar Sahib that they made a documentary film on it.

However, the part below makes sense.

Belgian filmmakers, Valerie Berteau and Philippe Witjes were so impressed with the langar at the Darbar Sahib that they made a documentary film on it.

Hope this makes sense.

Allenwalla 02:41, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

hot plates

I remember the huge griddles now, as seen in the above video, but even griddles here are only 2x4 ft at most. Maybe = may the iron plates of the Langar always be hot. They seem to be at least 4x5 feet.

or use the translation as is - adding - actually the hot plates of the langar are iron sheets over 4 x 5 ft in size - they are so large that a man is has to sit at each size to flip the (chapattis)?

I don't know the metric measurements.

Allenwalla 01:17, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Sat Sri Akal

Kee haal hai veer ji kimey chal reha hai sabh?

i have added more details in Charitar 16, incl. controversial part. People say it's related to Guru Gobind Singh but no where in charitar it's written, kindly check article and add necessory additions and correct gramattical mistakes. Once we complete with an article i want you to kindly protect this article. i am quoting few Guru Granth Sahib's lines which will be more supportable.

(Lucky 17:59, 22 April 2010 (UTC))

Guru de kirpa-da naal, sabe chardikala-ch vaas raah-han. I have made a start on the article but due to a wedding of a relation this weekend, I will have to finish this in the next few days. The article looks very good; you have done a most excellent work on this; congratulations and well done.

It must be one of the best articles on this Bani. I hope many will read and learn from the clear message given by the Guru - how to be stubborn about following the path of Dharam and not to be weak and submit to our passions!

Veer ji, real dedication by you to create the graphics and spend many many hours on refining the article; I think this will become a landmark article of the series. Many thanks and kind regards, Guru ang sang rava,

    • Thanks Veer ji, it's with help of Gurmat, and your help in creating article. My next project is the controversial one i.e Charitar 21, i have read the charitar many times. Many many many Gurmat teachings came out of it, philosphically. but historically, as you know all anti dasam relate it with gobind singh ji.

What do you think is this charitar related to Guru Gobind Singh own life? Please read all facts before replying.(Anandpur, Naina Devi ,Bank of Satluj, Sikh Shakha) etc. It's but confusing search is on. (Lucky 16:09, 24 April 2010 (UTC))

Sardar ji, Please check changes to page on Harbinder Singh Rana‎; by Jangbeer Singh. I wonder if he would advocate a set of sandwich boards for Mr. Singh Rana to wear about daily. thanks aw

further research

re. new message

Sardar ji, Please check changes to page on Harbinder Singh Rana‎; by Jangbeer Singh. I wonder if he would advocate a set of sandwich boards for Mr. Singh Rana to wear about daily. thanks aw

I have moved and altered the above edits. Since this is very old news, I added a new section at bottom titled Old News and left out the 'salacious' details.

Covering a murder trial years ago as a court artist for NBC, I was shocked to see how many people showed up in the court room, just to hear the sexual contents recited. It seems to me that we forgive people for murder but sex crimes would still earn a big Scarlet letter across a forehead (usually a woman's) if some people had their way.

Seeing the details added again, I took the time to see who had started this. As we know jangbir can be a real or takhallus name. So looking back to 2002 the Sikh Secretariat was mentioned, their website seems to be gone, but a Dabinderjit Singh seemed to be in charge and was listed as the spokesman in the old news stories.

Looking up that name, starts one down a sticky road. [3] if one is to believe this story it seems that glorifying terrorist murder is ok, but Mr. Rana's crime is another thing. Now I will have to find out how it was ok to blow up an air liner - who did it and why.

Gur Fateh, Rab Rakha, Allenwalla 17:03, 27 April 2010 (UTC)


Since it seemed this would be added repeatedly - i added the section OLD NEWS and put it at the end, i prefer your solution - you could also delete the two pages I added as I could find little on the man who raised the issue in 2002 and the organization seems to be defunct.

Rab Rakha, - aw

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Respected Sir,

I have uploaded some text from Dasam Granth. I think you confused it with Chaubis Avtar. It's not from Chaubis avtar but Brahma Avtar, which is different bani and is not part of Chaubis Avtar. There are three Avtaars description in Dasam Granth - Chobis Avtar(24), Brahma Avtar(7) and Rudra Avtar(2). Kindly Revert back those. If we will keep topic name as -> incarnation 1, incarnation 2 and so on, then it would be a confusion, it would be bettwe if we keep title of Avtar as topic name like ath Brahma avtar Shukra kathan or related to it like shukracharya or shukra etc. May god bless you. (Editor 16:03, 28 April 2010 (UTC))



Bhai Sahib, in a sign of respect (for my age and the fact that I knew something about his religion, a Muslim friend always bows when greeting me. No matter how often I protest he always calls me Sir (never using my name). Here in the states such courtesy is seen also by kids who have been raised in a military family or served in the army, ect. I tip my head a bit to almost everyone i meet, for I know that they move, breath, smile or frown because they are animated by Wahiguru.

The greeting Namaste, Namascar carry the word bow in their spelling. The word namaaz does the same. People from India and Africa (especially Japan, Korea and China) tend to do a little bow or tip of the head when they greet others. Only once have I had people reach in the direction of my feet (as seen in Bollywood films (when young folks greet elders), but I know this is respect that people give to elders, ect.

When I read the first 'recent change' this morning on waking to the article on Bhai Mohinder Singh I was bothered. A new section has been added saying that he has people bow to him in 'another room'. This implies that he actually has (tells) people to do this. I do not know the Sardar, other than by what I read on these pages, however I doubt that he would do such a thing. I can imagine that folks treat him the way I mentioned (with a courteous tip of the head in respect for his age and the way he has lived his life.)

I find the edit offensive and my first thought is to delete it, but that is not something I do.

Allenwalla 12:03, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

now I'm off to the garden, the garden I tend for my mother, my father's old garden.

It seems a blog would be a better place for criticism, who is Gurmeet Kaur Rai, what does it matter that she didn't like the re-gilding on the Harmandar Sahib, I suppose there were people who criticized Mahraja Ranjit Singh and Hari Sing Nalwa for adding the gold in the first place.

Sorry for all the criticism, well at least I found out a little about Bibi Gurmeet Kaur Rai.

Sat Sri Akal

Sir ji kee haal?

gurmat da parchar aap ji de shahr vich kiddan hai?? othey sikhan da kee haal hai, gurbani naal jurhey ne ke Triya(Budhi) charitran vich uljhey paye ne??

veer ji eh mai Charitar 49, article create kita hai and according to my JAALI mind i have picked some aspects out of charitar. I want you to kindly read the charitar and extract more positivity out of it.

one of my friend commented on our work he said "HANS NE TAAN MOTI CHUG E LAINA E". We are interpreting Charitropakhyan in light of gurmat and picking those things for what it was written and rejecting those which are not acepted in gurmat. These triya charitars are world, everyday we read in news paper about charitars of various minds(man and woman) and many matches with triya charitar too.

bhul chuk maaf (Lucky 18:37, 30 April 2010 (UTC))

What is the truth, can it be known

cc. to: Sardar Hari Singh ji and Sardar Harpreet Singh ji,

We now have at least two articles claiming the sons of Guru Gobind Singh ji were mothered by two different women, this is very confusing - people take written words as truth. Both articles cannot be right.

I am now very confused and i am sure such statements confuse many others. It seems to me we need to preface such articles with - a statement - this is what (I, we or whomever believes and why.

If the truth cannot be known, it seems best to state there are differing opinions.

Allenwalla 23:15, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

Mata Jito vs. Mata Sunder Kaur

perhaps I am the only one confused by this?

interesting report

Sardar ji, - something interesting

this was listed as an editorial page on Dawn News, the photo is also eye catching.


Also I will try to sort out the articles and add statement re. opposing opinions.

Can Message boards at Gurdwaras or what people claim, be relied on for truth? I have seen boards, or references to what the boards say claiming this is the Gurdwara where Guru Tegh Bahadur received word of his new son's - birth - from three different Gurdwaras.

The Gurdwaras that displayed the photo of an Afghan general to be a photo of Ranjit Singh and Hari Singh Nalwa also come to mind. Allenwalla 14:00, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Puzzling behavior

Sardar ji, I restored the page on Guru Nanak Nishkam Sewak Jatha‎, which was first decreased (bit by bit) then blanked out by Satbachan - no reason given.

Surely I thought this must be a mistake, but apparently not.

May I suggest that the photo of the Ragi carrying the SGGS also mention the Granth/Guru as well, if that is what is being carried?

Rab Rakha, Allenwalla 01:36, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Gurfathe Hari Singh Ji

Sir, First of all let me apologise for the lateness in my reply to the message you sent me,next time i will hopefully reply to you asap. No offence was taken by anything that you had written, it is my good fortune that a person of your caliber is there to guide me through my contributions, so please if and when i do make a mistake please remind me, i will be very greatfull to you. Sir, isn't it true that unless we have all the pro's and con's about the articals that are written we can never get the full picture of the concerned person or event, because only the sggs is the true source, other books are prone to mistakes that the connected writer has written. And sir, can there be a section in this site that presents a different version of the same subject as to who has written what about the artical concerned so that the reader can judge for him or her self as what other writers have written about the subject.

Sir Thank you

Very kind regards

Tarlochan Singh Kular--Kular65 07:05, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

help needed

Sardar ji, Hari Singh - how do I make a [citation needed] without the word template showing up as well. Since anyone can log on and do mischief - its quite remarkable that in 3 or 4 years I can remember only a few cases of this being done or am I being an 'optimist'?

Regards, Allenwalla 15:55, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Sat Sri Akal Sir

Rabb d kirpa naal sab thik hai.

Check this section User:BachitarNatak/Confusions_Resolver. Put any quesry related to bachitar natak or query which put by anti dasam elemets to misguide sikhs.

(Lucky 19:04, 4 May 2010 (UTC))

A warning

Bhai Sahib ji,

Warning: This file may contain malicious code, by executing it your system may be compromised.

The above message is in the page (or link) added by Gurvinder2007 , "File:BABA BANDA SINGH BAHADUR.doc

from where (and why) does such a message show up. Is this my system protecting me?

If this is not your Baileywick, just ignore.

Allenwalla 03:26, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

sat sri akal

sir i think we should start an article called bachitara natak confusion reolver, but we have to save that article from anti dasam party as they will attack such artcles. what do you think? (Lucky 09:28, 9 May 2010 (UTC))

A Question on Bachitar Natak

Sir as i was asked by someone, i want to share it with you as i shared this thought with many. A question is Why Bachitar Natak an Autobiography? What makes it an Autobiography? autobiography is person is narrating events and exposing himself in that narration but in Bachitar Natak Guru Gobind Singh ji talked very less about him.

In First 5 Chapters, Guru Gobind Singh is telling about God, Raghu Kul, 9 Nanak's sixth chapter Guru Gobind Singh explained his spiritual life in Sachkhand(Ab mai apni katha and akal purakh bach, even in that he explained God's command to him). After that he explained his birth in 2 - 3 lines then he explained Battle Bhangani(and about himself he spoke 2 - 3 lines), then he explained other battles(and spoke 2 - 3 lines about himself) and then expedition of khanzada where also he spoke 2 - 3 lines about himself then the natak ends with praise of god.

This Natak contains some events and he explained few events of life, and purpose of explanation was to tell people how to fight Dharam Yudh for truth and righteousness. Autobiography is a big term and i feel you should analyze it and find more appropriate term which can define subject well.

Autobiography is A biography of yourself....but where guru sahib have given very very less about himself. kindly share your views

(Lucky 19:26, 14 May 2010 (UTC))

yes right

It does not impact on bachitar natak itself. Though i was just saying you to find some more appropriate word(in english), because it's semi autobiographical, not purely autobiography. It do relates to him, but not purely.

Want to share in Computers we use term Object Oriented Languages those are oriented around object(a concept, in computers), but not fully. Those languages which are fully dependent on object we call them Purely Object Oriented Languages.

The whole Gurbani and Interpretations are described in words, but if words does not fully support topic it's called Kacha or Kachi. like, All Banis in universe which are related to God/gurmat are Pakki banis and those which are not related to god or which have no nearness to Gurmat is kachi bani, because words can't describe subject fully. if you write a poem in praise of god and if supports gurmat fully then it's Pakki Bani. So my intent was to give Pakka Shabad. Nothing personal

baki hor sunao kiddan chalda sabh?(Lucky 18:45, 15 May 2010 (UTC))

Does Sikhism believes in Supernatural Powers????

Dear Hari Singh ji,

Thanks for your analysis. I resepct your faith and beliefs.

It is not that I dont believe in supernatural powers of GOD, He is capable of anything.

But I just wanted to clarify that our Guru ji were Human Beings with devine knowledge and They have lebeled all these powers as lowly and useless on our way to realise one GOD.

Please Go through first 10 references highlighted in your provided link.

Reference to Supernatural Powers in SGGS

Approach I followed: To Go through the complete sahabd and understand the underlying theme being conveyed.

Please correct me if I have misinterpretted any Shabad wrongly. I would be more than happy to see things from your perspective.

1. ਸਭਿ ਨਿਧਾਨ ਦਸ ਅਸਟ ਸਿਧਾਨ ਠਾਕ੝ਰ ਕਰ ਤਲ ਧਰਿਆ ॥ Page 10, Line 13

Gurbani is saying that GOD has all the powers be it natural or supernatural, 
If we go through the whole shabad of the above pankti, the theme explains capabilities
of GOD not a human being.

2. Page 17, Line 6 ਨਾਉ ਸਦਾਝ ਆਪਣਾ ਹੋਵੈ ਸਿਧ੝ ਸ੝ਮਾਰ੝ ॥

If we go through the complete shabad, Guru ji is saying if one practices all the rituals, 
even adopt a lofty name and be known to posess supernatural spiritual powers...even so, 
if you are not accepted in the court of the lord, then all this adoration is false.

3.Page 26, Line 18 ਤਿਨਾ ਪਿਛੈ ਰਿਧਿ ਸਿਧਿ ਫਿਰੈ ਓਨਾ ਤਿਲ੝ ਨ ਤਮਾਇ ॥੪॥

If we go through the complete shabad, it higlights that Those who focus their conscious
on ONE GOD, wealth, treasures and supernatural powers are nothing for them, and 
they do not care for such things
at all.

Wahtever pleases God's Will comes to pass (ie. only that thing happens). Nothing else can be done.
In the last line Guru Nanak Requests to GOD, "Servant Nanak lives by chanting the Naam. O Lord,
please give it (ie. NAAM ) to me, in Your Natural Way"

Please read the last line of this shabad which epmasises on "Natural Way" of GOD's realization.

4.Page 91, Line 11 ਅਠਾਰਹ ਸਿਧੀ ਪਿਛੈ ਲਗੀਆ ਫਿਰਨਿ ਨਿਜ ਘਰਿ ਵਸੈ ਨਿਜ ਥਾਇ ॥

In this shabad (whole shabad) Guru ji is saying that on realisation of GOD, I am in a state that
all the treasures and all so called supernatural powers posses no value for me rather 
I dwell in my own home, within my own self, I am lovingly absorbed in LORD.

5.Page 101, Line 5 ਨਿਧਿ ਸਿਧਿ ਰਿਧਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਮੇਰੈ ॥

Guru ji is saying..My GOD is everything for me...For me he is the nine treasures, 
the supernatural spiritual powers of the Siddhas, wealth and prosperity. 
Please go through the complete shabad.

6.Page 225, Line 12 ਸਿਧ੝ ਕਹਾਵਉ ਰਿਧਿ ਸਿਧਿ ਬ੝ਲਾਵਉ ॥

Theme of the complete Shabad is that even if person may be called a man of spiritual perfection 
and he may summon riches and supernatural powers, but without the LORD of the universe, 
Truth cant be found.

7. Page 390, Line 3 ਜਾ ਕੀ ਸੇਵਾ ਦਸ ਅਸਟ ਸਿਧਾਈ ॥

Guru ji is saying Worship that ONE GOD, Even the eighteen supernatural powers of the sidhas
serve him.. one who grasps GOD's feet even for an instant,  he does not lack 
anything i.e. does not wishes for anything else.

8. Page 422, Line 19 ਤੇਤੀਸ ਕਰੋੜੀ ਦਾਸ ਤ੝ਮ੝ਹ੝ਹਾਰੇ ਰਿਧਿ ਸਿਧਿ ਪ੝ਰਾਣ ਅਧਾਰੀ ॥

Three hundered thrity milion gods and all those people posessing supernatural powers 
according to Hindu Myths are your (GOD's) servants, you are the support of breath of 
all these people. i.e. they are nothing without GOD.

9. Page 593, Line 18 ਰਿਧਿ ਸਿਧਿ ਸਭ੝ ਮੋਹ੝ ਹੈ ਨਾਮ੝ ਨ ਵਸੈ ਮਨਿ ਆਇ ॥

Guru ji is clarifying  that all those Riches and Supernatural powers are nothing 
but emotional attachements, through them NAME of lord does not come to dwell in 
the mind.

Whereas Serving the Guru, the mind becomes immaculately pure, and the darkness of 
ignorance is dispelled

10. Page 642, Line 4 ਜੋਗ ਸਿਧ ਆਸਣ ਚਉਰਾਸੀਹ ਝ ਭੀ ਕਰਿ ਕਰਿ ਰਹਿਆ ॥

Theme of the whole shabad is that even of one practices eighty four postures of yoga 
and acquires the supernatural powers of the sidhas, and even if he gets tired of prcticing
all these, he has not met with lord.

Guru ji says Singing the Kirtan of the Lord's praises is the highest of all actions.

What I wanted to Convey

By removing that reference to Supernatural Powers of Mian Meer and Guru Arjun Dev ji about, visulatization of angels, my only purpose was to convey the message that If our Guru's have not given any value to Supernatural Powers and miracles, Why should we impose it on their history out of ignorance ..

No one can confirm if Mian Meer really saw angels or not...It is just human say.

We all assume Sikhism to be most logical religion, but then we ourselves contradict Gurmat when representing it to masses out of ignorance.

Our religion is suffering from "Chinese Whisper" effect. So we have to device our words in a way that can overcome this deadly effect.

Otherwise we all know what " Chinese whisper" effect is capable of.

Looking forward to hear from your side


Rupinder Singh

In response to

Explanation about Sikhi and Supernatural Powers

You say in your comments that you "Removed [the] concept of Supernatural Powers of Mian Meer, and Guru Arjan Dev ji..." as "...It contradicts Gurmat".

Khalsa ji, supernatural powers are a reality and the vision that is described by Mian Mir is a possibility as can be seen from Gurbani at the link given below. Bani tells us that supernatural powers do exist and that they are a integral part of nature; Riddha and Siddha are a function of nature just like atomic power or gravity, powers of thought, etc. However to strive or crave for these powers is "anti-Gurmat"; to use these powers for personal advantage is anti-gurmat. Please follow the link to read Gurbani lines containing the word "supernatural".

You will recall that Guru Nanak stopped a huge bolder at Panja Sahib in an act to save himself and the sangat from certain death. This is a supernatural act done by a Guru! Not for a personal gain and in self defence but nevertheless a supernatural act in any event. I hope you will agree with my analysis of this issue and the related Gurbani; if not, please do revert back to me on my user talk page. Kind regards and many thanks again, Hari Singhtalk 22:51, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Chinese whisper

Bhai Sahib ji, Do you have any idea what Chinese whisper effect means?

Curious Allenwalla 07:25, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

What is Chinese Whisper

Please read some info about Chinese Whisper at following link, You may find more information on internet. thanks

Chinese Whisper

Already got my answer

Sorry to bother you, once again. The words Chinese whisper' set me off a bit it was 3:00 in the morning and i am still suffering jet lag from a seven hour plane ride. I found the phrase on wikipedia - interesting that it is considered a racial slur here, but not offensive in the UK. I guess that depends on who wrote that and who you talk to in the UK.

Hope you all are well and enjoying good weather by now.

Regards and God bless, Allenwalla 17:20, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Link to my response--Rupinder Singh

Dear Bhai Sahb Allenwala ji and Hari Singh ji,

There seems to be some confusion regarding where to put this discussion. I can already see two spots now. As I replied to your last disccusion at page Talk:Supernatural_Powers, but it did not get updated here. So right approach would be if we keep all discussion in one place for our convenience and transparency. please move whole discussion to one place and then provide a link on this page where we actually started the discussion.

please see my response to your latest entry at following link.

Supernatural Powers, Ghosts, Illusion and Tricks

Bhai Sahb Allenwala ji, your findings on concept of Certainty, Beliefs and Truth were really interesting. Thanks for sharing it. It will be much appreciated if you can un-delete those of your responses so that other Sangat following this discussion could also benefit from your point of view. It also maintains the transparency of discussion.


Rupinder Singh

Pandits of Kashmir

Respected Bhai Sahib, I read this story this morning, which of course reminded me of Guru Tegh Bahadur. It seems that some descendants of the men the Guru sacrificed his life for are returning home.

What is remarkable is that they are being welcomed.

Thought you all might enjoy -

Rabb Rakha, Allenwalla 15:04, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

Correction of an error

Bhai Sahib ji, last night I was adding link bars ([[ ]]) to names in several articles, as I have been doing for three or four years. Of course, if there is no article or an article under a different name the potential link turns red.

When that happens, I search here for other versions of the name or event (spelling variations, honorable titles, ect.). If I can't find anything, I often search the net and put together a paragraph or two or more on the person which turns the link blue. After I had started a page on Bhai Tirath Singh Ji, first I had done my usual search here and saw no page on the man. Then I took some words on the gentleman from the article I had been reading. Then the Tikana link was still red so I did a search on that. There on the page of results was a Sikhiwiki page on the person under the title Mahant Tirath Singh Ji (without the word Bhai).

Well that article was much better and more extensive, so I tried to move (add the word Bhai) the to - Mahant Bhai Tirath Singh Ji, but was told that that could not be done as the page I had started existed with that name. The only thing I knew to do was move the better page to the correct title and this I did - deleting the paragraphs I had written.

Getting on tonight, I saw that you had made a move as well, so I looked at the history and got a shock. Looking, it seemed I was the only one to write on this page: - i.e. the person who did all the work is no longer in the history.

Could you restore the history or return the content to the page that I removed the content from (Mahant Tirath Singh ji) and then correct its title? I looked for the page and it no longer exists.

All of this should be in the recent changes log from last night.

Thanks, Sorry for causing you extra trouble.

Rabb Rakha, Allenwalla 05:26, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Interesting article

Bhai Sahib, Here is another interesting article on what Pakistan could have, might yet be. Allenwalla 13:40, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Please check

Bhai Sahib Ji, could you please read through and check the changes I have made, hopefully improving the article, to the page on Guru Har Gobind. Please correct or revert as needed. Must go to plant some cucumbers before the heat of the day arrives.

God bless, Allenwalla 11:22, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

On saving I noticed another varied spelling of the Guru's name.

Combined articles

Sardar ji, I combined and restructurd the two articles on Professor Teja Singh, The article - Principal Teja Singh is now empty. As I think the article had links made I will temp. place the text in the talk section, for further review. Late/early now time to sleep. Allenwalla 10:23, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Another story

Sardar ji, Here is another story of interest.

Indian-American wins US gov primary runoff

COLUMBIA, South Carolina: An Indian-American woman vying to overcome allegations of infidelity and an ethnic slur targeting her Sikh heritage won a Republican primary runoff vote in the southern state of South Carolina.

She hasn't won the office yet, because that election is in the future. She has apparently left the Sikh fold, but her Sikh roots were used against her.

Rabb Rakhaa, Allenwalla 12:31, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

Please check page Mata Damodari

Sardar Ji, once again I am asking for your help.

Please check the page Mata Damodari. If you check the history their is a version where I made corrections to correct a sentence fragment, and the sentence that was unclear as to whether the (Original?) Adi Granth was in the Gurdwara or the decendants of Baba Gurditta. I reverted to the last changes by Rdhupia.

Who has the Granth?

Isn't this the Granth that Guru Tegh Bahadur ordered returned to his brother after the attempt on his life?

Are the 'Satgurus' (the Sikh Gurus) considered to be the Avatars of God, as stated? I see this both claimed and disputed here. This is very confusing, as God is said to have no avatars (in the SGGS) and yet many people write the opposite?

Could you please check the article?

Also, some claim that one or more? Gurus had several wives (in the Muslim fashion) while their devotees, the Sikhs, are limited to one. This also goes back and forth, very confusing.

Rab Rakhaa, Thanks for any help. a.w.

Also user Pink Pony (and odd name) seems to have made an addition to the page Kirpan. I got warnings, when I tried to go to the link, as below:


URL FormManage Cookies

Resource Error: An error has occured while trying to browse through the proxy.

It appears that you are trying to access a resource through this proxy from a remote Website.

For security reasons, please use the form below to do so.

Web Address

Include mini URL-form on every page

Remove client-side scripting (i.e JavaScript)

Allow cookies to be stored

Show images on browsed pages

Show actual referring Website

Use ROT13 encoding on the address

Use base64 encodng on the address

Strip meta information tags from pages

Strip page title

Store cookies for this session only

(I don't allow 'cookies' into my system)

Thanks and will research as well

Small world, tonight I thought to re-look at one of my first edits some 3 years ago, so unable to sleep I logged in and you had deleted the parts I had added to the Gentleman who had written a book on tourism in Pakistan. I remember thinking as I learned of Hari Singh Nalwa and M. Ranjit Singh - too bad they were not around - they could bring peace back to Pakistan. Since then much has happened and the Sikhs of the area have suffered at the TTP's hands as well. Anyway I had thought it might be a bit much too political for the page, thanks for taking care of it for me.

Rab Rakhaa, R.


Sardar ji, I thought this might be of some interest:

Allenwalla 03:07, 4 July 2010 (UTC)


How are you veer ji, hope everything would be fine. Sir i want to ask you that, i want to put quran on sikhiwiki. With meanings what they have and surahs which are not inline with gurmat. As you know we could not say that whole granths previously are bad or worse. Somehow granths have many facts of Gurmat but due to Manmatt they are not complete like GUru Granth Sahib. So upload quran with gurmat interpretations, if you will give permission.

(Lucky 18:38, 5 July 2010 (UTC))


Sardar ji, Thanks for the recent note. I had earlier added a color illustration (actual page) to improve the page. Later after getting a bite out I looked and realized many people would not know what Al-Alaq (the Clot) was about. Though it is far into the Qur'an, it is really the beginning (odd). So after adding the best simplest trans I could find I got the (someone has saved before you warning).

I saw you had added a 'tocleft', but the changes i had added had disappeared. I redid the additional trans. and placed the toc higher. Glad to see you were on also, sorry to hear that London area is so hot. Do you live in London - what area of the city or area do you live?

I had a friend in North Hill High Gate area in 1970 when I went to meet a musician on Saville Road. That and Earl's Court tube station is about all I saw.

We have tomatoes, cucumbers, Chinese long beans, string beans and squash, yum yum, unfortunately while we have fenced the deer out, a nice fat woodchuck has moved in and seems to love the veggies as as us.

Hope all of you are well, how is your mother? She is the only family i have seen you mention.

Rab Rakhaa, Allenwalla 02:27, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

Quran : Reply 2

Holy Writings which are inline with Gurmat shall not be condenmned. Gurmat = GUR + MAT = GYAN KI MATT or Way of Wisdom, which is very old. Even our Great Guru Granth describe Prahlad and Suk Rishi were Gurmukhs(not Hindus or muslims).

Gurmat is wide subject explained by many before gurus or devotees. but they were not able to explain it deeply like Gurus and devotees did. Quran have many things which are inline with Gurmat, What quran do not have is BRAHMGYAN, (the wisdom of inner soul. To know about youself.) but it do have believe in one allah in which we believe to (Awar allah noor upaya).

So What GURMAT is available in quran i will pick only those things and what is non gurmat i will not condenmed but tell truth with help of our granth of BRAHMGYAN + IMAAN i.e GUru Granth Sahib. This is not condenming. Why we say Gurmukh = POORA and ISLAM = ANDHA and Hindu = KAANA. The answer you will get by these articles.

Condenming is like that this is baqwaas this is bekaar or this is jaali, which i am not going to do. i am not going to use such words at all. i will just aim on Gurmat morals in quran and non gurmat in quran too

This all would be informative nothing else. I do not have any bad intentions. Neither my aim is to criticize any religion (Lucky 09:23, 6 July 2010 (UTC))

An Intriguing page

Bhai Sahib ji, I thought this might be interesting to you.

As you know the base reason for classism or the varna system was based on some 'superior' people needing 'inferior' people to serve them. Today if one can afford them they can buy first class tickets on any airline, but because of long tradition classism still exists, as does gotra prejudices. What is remarkable is that the people who suffer from this often keep these things in place.

Please read the story below.

A culture of suicide - Pakistanis need to accept responsibility for every ailment that afflicts the society: I. A. Rehman. [4]

A few lines:

  • Thus, we the Pakistanis have never done anything wrong. If we ever lost a war the reason lay in the enemy’s perfidy or the duplicity of a traitor in our ranks.

All our miseries in pre-partition India were the result of a malevolent alliance against us by the British and the Hindu and at the global scale we are innocent victims of the conspiracies continually hatched by ahle-Hunud-o-Yahood.

  • When in the early years of independence, the much-maligned progressive activists started reminding the rulers of their pledges regarding land reforms, they were accused of daring to interfere with a heavenly designed system. (This was much before the honourable judges of the highest Shariat court in the country decreed that land reform was un-Islamic.)
  • So strong was the rich landlords’ hold on the minds and bodies of the victims of their exploitation that the latter gleefully threw stones at the organisers of land-for-the-tiller rallies.

And perhaps the best:

If anybody ventured to protest against inequality, old and venerable teachers would raise their fingers and declare ‘khudawand punj angusht yaksan no kard’! Since the fingers on the hand of a human being were not equal in length, this was offered as conclusive proof that God had enjoined inequality!

Regards, Allenwalla 18:55, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

the word Bhoot in the SGGS

Bhai Sahib ji, on page - SGGS on the word Bhoot (Ghosts or Demons) I cannot find the word Bhoot on page 289. In looking to add an English translation, in several readings of the page I don't see the word Bhoot. This is only the first.

.Page 289..SGGS "Saar BHOOT seh Har ka nao sehaj subhai nanak gun gao.....

  • Here "BHOOT" is used to refer to Material Things

Thanks for any help, almost all of the tuks from the pages are without any English translation.

Rab Rakha, Allenwalla 08:04, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

The Wrong Notion

i feel the wrong notion that Gurus haven't studied these Granth. Gur Nanak Sahib do studied these granths and went on War of discussion with granth's owners. Guru sahib himself said (Paath parheyo aur bed vichareyo). Gurus dealed this way with quran or puran, because to tell new philosphy one have to cut previous. Kindly read defination of NEW NAMAZ's told by Guru Nanak, he felt those namazs keep no significance if we do not follow these namaz's(Article GGS Guidance for muslims).

Ya Guru Sahib told that Don't say vedas or Koran are false, person who do not understand them are false. If you will take it's meaning that vedas and puranas are true then you have to accept many concept of them, which are not inline with Gurmat.

Like JUDGEMENT day, we do not believe in it, such articles will act as why we are different from these. i am going to pick that translation which is followed in islam jagat and which is appropriate and people believe in that.

if you feel that this will create problem for website in future then it's OK. no probs, i will not gonna create such articles. (Lucky 08:07, 12 July 2010 (UTC))

spaming link

Thanks for the long note, will add more later, but a link to a gambling site was added at keshdhari by , AmandaCusack, Allenwalla 05:34, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

who criticize

i m not saying i will gonna criticizing any book. i already quoted above that don't say these are false, but person is false, reason being these books are non living, these contain wisdom, which when read by reader(living) then it becomes shabad guru.

sir, if you think these books are so correct, than what was need of another granth? simple philosphy mismatch error. we haven't written about differences in philosphy that could be done easily simple by comparison , and may gurmat helps.

we will not criticize them. we will simply write (THIS IS NOT INLINE WITH GURMAT). What do you think now? we will not say this book is false bla bla bla etc etc, what today missionaries do, just shear bigotry.

some people call nanak hindu and some call nanak was muslim, but nanak said na mai hindu, na musalmann.....why? these articles will better give answer.

i will create article after understanding quranic quotes in limit of gurmat after sharing it with you only.

(Lucky 11:04, 16 July 2010 (UTC))

Baaz, Baz (Hawk?)

Veer ji, Actually we live in a little '70s sub division. The hills and valleys where the Cherokee Indians once lived, around the Chatahoochee River, were damned in the '50s to end the summer rainy season floods that used to wash out Atlanta nieghborhoods. The very large lake was tapped with a 6ft diameter pipe in the '90s - allowing Atlanta and the surrounding area to grow monstrously large. A federal court has ruled that atlanta can no longer use any water from the lake - big court battles ahead. That plus the recession has slowed development around here.

Lined only with fishing shacks for years, hundreds of subdivisions were built around the lake's creek and stream valleys in the 60s and 70s. Because many of the valleys were so steep, roads followed the contour lines around the lake. The land in our sub division was particularly hilly so lots were divided into long tracts 100 x 1000 ft. The developers placed the houses on the 100 ft road front, 30 feet from the road; cost of concrete dictating a short driveway. The rest of the lot was too steep to build any thing on. There were three lots that did not even have a flat area next to the road, so they were never built on. Why pay taxes on a piece of land that couldn't be used - like the king of Thailand, who gave white elephants to 'friends' that had angered him, the developer gave the 3 lots away to people he wanted to burden with the taxes of land that could not be developed or easily sold. My mother purchased the one behind her house, for a few dollars, to keep it in forest. The little closed off forest, now has two stags supporting 10 to 20 point antlers and about 16 does, but the black bears once so common here have long since moved to the mountains. A few show up each year around Atlanta - our little town had a bear scare last week as one was spotted in several areas of the city. Thankfully they prefer to get out of your way given the chance. Cougars, (mountain lions) haven't been seen here for many years.

So everyone else in this subdivision lives in houses 40 feet apart. Our little gravel (metaled) driveway drops down into the valley, behind mom's house and as no one has cleared the forest behind their homes we have to 'suffer' silence, darkness here at the junction of the two creeks that drain the valley. Our house can only be spotted from the road in the winter when the leaves are down on one side of the irregular 'block'. The hill on the western side keeps us out of site of the twenty or so houses that line that street.

Hence the forest, owned mostly by others, filled by fallen pines (bad beetle infection 15 years ago) that keeps people (along with the briars and brambles and poison ivy) out of the forest. A new law prohibits building within 150 feet of a creek, as we built before the law was passed we are 'grandfathered' in, the two empty lots behind us may never be built on. So the deer, foxes, racoons, woodchucks, birds and bugs and us will just have to suffer through the sound of the cicadas alone.

Raab Rakha, Allenwalla 12:57, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

an attempt at humor?

(User creation log); 17:18 . . Sikhslayer5 (Talk | contribs) New user account


Bhai Sahib ji, it seems that once again views against a strict veggie diet have been added to the page on Vegetarianism. It seems to be a blessing that not everyone demands meat or can afford a car. I can only imagine how much more quickly the glaciers would disappear.

two articles of interest for you all.

Northwest India and Pakistan are already arguing over the results of the first, but we all will suffer if this trend is not reversed. - the speech and the comments, pro and con, are very interesting.

Allenwalla 16:25, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

OK I will show you 1

Sir some non sikh elements come in sikhiwiki and changes the content, like some hindus come and change the definations given by gurmukhs here. I have seen latest edit of onkar which is not omkar, he just delete that paragraph where that thing is exposed. So we have to prevent website from such elements.

  1. Gurbani have it's own meaning for SIV, KRISNA, GOPI, RAM, KAAL, MAHAKAL, Chandi, Durgah etc.
  2. Gurbani cut all previous explanation of these terms
  3. Sikhism have nothing to take with previous explanation we will go gurmatically not hinudishlly.

kindly check these activities too. Take care (Lucky 10:26, 19 July 2010 (UTC))

Gujrat Tour

Respected Sir ji,

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh

I was on a tour to Gujrat state along with family as the summer holidays of kids are on so couldn't respond to ur message , i will try to collect the stuff as mentioned by u whenever i will get time. Rest everything is fine it was a fantastic tour, we enjoyed a lot. Moreover Gurdwara Sahib of Gujrat are very beautiful.How is everybody at ur side.TC --user:sarbjeet_1313me 02:24, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

brahmgyan in english

How are you? Sir it finds me a great difficulty to find exact word for terminologies of brahmgyan in english, kindly translate following.

  1. MANN (it's basicaLLY OUR attentions, but it's not only mind)
  2. Chitt (When Mann got killed by SHABAD GURU, we say MAnn CHITT ho gya, but mind works here too)
  3. Atma (?)
  4. Paratama (Inner soul, i mean which we have to find first)
  5. Vikar (Vices?)
  6. ICHAA (Will?)
  7. HUKAM (COMMAND?) Hukam god da, lord's Hukam?

what are Sub councious and concious mind?

i was talking with someone he was saying if anyone have to understand real essence of gurmat he have to understand gurmukhi and languages used in granth sahib. still some conversions is needed, so that english readers can understand. I ma just creating standardless articles, from the knowledge what i have, but english is also a stone due to that i am not able to interpret the whole matter.

Kindly translate the above words, or make articles of above words so that the philosphy of brahmgyan in guru granth sahib could be well explained.


(Lucky 10:32, 22 July 2010 (UTC))


Veer ji,

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh

S Balwant Singh ji Ramuwalia Ex MP ,is already fighting for such cases, kindly raed this


HUSBANDS (Through Fraudulency and Treachery) NRI Marriages in Punjab, in some other Northern States too, are proving a curse for many unsuspecting girls and an enigma for the society. It is a more painful and soul stirring social issue and continues to wreck the married lives of hundreds and hundreds of young innocent girls, causing them untold misery as also socio-economic ruination to their parental families. This virus has so widely spread its tentacles in Punjab. NRI groom maneuvers his marriage in India through matrimonial columns for better life abroad makes the unsuspecting girl / her parents succumbs to the allurement. He usually hides his pre-marital status (he may already have been married one or twice, having even issues) and does not reveal details of his actual profession, income, passport or even residence abroad. After enjoying hospitality and abuse of a girl, he slips away to the country of his adoption assuring his spouse to sponsor her later- a promise never fulfilled. If the bride by any remote chance succeeds to join her husband abroad, her stay is willfully cut short and is brought back home in India on some pretext and she is divested of her passport and other documents, disabling her to rejoin her husband. She is deserted. All her efforts and her parents to patch up are spurned; rather, the boy and his parents pressurize the girl for more and more cash, cars and costly gadgets, and failing to oblige, the girl is taunted, abused, harassed, humiliated, tortured and brutalized and her honour is slighted by her NRI husband / in laws. What eventually happens is that with zero chance of mutual compromise coupled with the denial of any financial support makes her an unwelcome dependent on her own parents, and if per chance she happens to be a mother, it is all misery-her two generations are ruined. She is also faced with a piquant situation inasmuch as she no more can perceive herself to be “married”. Duped, abandoned, deserted and yet un-divorced, she loses her marital identity, with remote chance of re-marriage. She is shunned even by the society. Another problematic area is the ex-party divorce that accused NRI usually manages to get from a court abroad without the knowledge and consent of his defenceless spouse by presenting false information and fake documents; whereas the moot point is that if the marriage has taken place in India in accordance with Indian custom and law, the divorce must necessarily be sought from a court in India. Non-registration of FIRs upon complaints of victimized married girls is yet another cause of deep concern. It is at the lower police level, especially the district women’s Crime Cell to whom complaints are routinely referred, where obstructionist attitude is adopted; insulting behaviour is handed down, and either action to register FIRs is not taken or inordinately delayed. The aggrieved girls are then compelled to file appeals before the Courts or Punjab Human Rights Commission seeking justice. Even, names, of aggressive accused persons as indicated by victimized girls in their complaints are deleted from FIRs under pressure-political or otherwise. Even after registration of FIRs, inordinate delay is caused in filing of challans. The worst is that whenever accused NRI or his accused parents named in the FIR visit their home-towns in Punjab, they are let go and no action to arrest them or impound their passports is taken. Also, Look Out Notice (LOC) to concerned immigration authorities is not sent in time; facilitating the escape abroad of these accused persons. The support system by our counselling centre is being adopted in providing help to the victimized girls, inter alia, includes: initial counselling at party Headquarter; legal advice by Party’s prominent lawyers; assistance in getting FIRs registered and in filing of challans – the aggrieved girls are entirely dependent on the degree of commitment of police officers or their attitudes-; swift action to prevent re-marriage (s) of fraudulent NRI grooms ; taking up desertion cases with State and central Governments as also with concerned Indian Missions abroad and with Party Units in respective countries; out-of-court settlements in cash and kind; conducting awareness publicity campaigns at public meetings and highlighting the problem in print & electronic media – all these services are voluntary and GRATIS. SOME SUGGESTIONS:- 1. Registration of FIRs upon complaints of victimized girls be made mandatory by law, or, procedure be so simplified as to make FIRs registration possible with a minimum period, say 15 days. 2. Prompt action to arrest all accused persons named in the FIR, without deleting any name under any pretext or pressure, with follow up action to restore ‘istri dhan’ and transfer the moveable & immoveable property of accused husbands / In-laws complete with ownership rights, to the victimized girls. 3. Challans be filed in Courts with minimum of delay, and for speedy trial and justice, FAST TRACK COURTS BE SET UP. That would help defeat the game-plan of accused In-laws in prolonging the suit in courts for years to make their deserted daughters-in-laws old in age. 4. Indian Missions abroad, who are vital links, be empowered to impound passports of accused NRIs / their parents against whom FIRs stand registered. And additionally, if they are declared “proclaimed offenders”, Government should consider extraditing them as fugitives and criminals. Their names be also black listed for denying consular services including debarring them from acquiring “dual citizenship” in course of time. 5. Annulment of NRI marriages, solemnized in India, be made invalid / inapplicable by foreign courts through an act of legislation. That would prove a deterrent and compel accused NRIs to seek divorce in India. 6. The Maharashtra Control of Organised Crime Act (MCCOCA) be enforced in Punjab against accused NRIs. 7. Registration of marriages with NRI grooms be made compulsory and the Marriage Certificate should indicate their passport details. NRIs Indian passports be affixed with photographs of their legally-wedded Indian wives. On receiving complaints from abandoned married girls, Police should immediately intervene to stop the re-marriage of accused NRIs. Spurious Marriages Bureaus in Punjab be also banned. 8. Law enforcing authorities should negate all attempts of vested political bigwigs or others to favour accused NRI grooms, and make erring police officers, particularly of the Women’s Crime Cells, accountable for stern action against them. 9. These should be code curbing extravagance and vulgarity during marriages. On complaints against the groom side demanding and accepting hefty dowry and cash, police should intervene on the spot for lawful action. Courtesy:

( S. Balwant Singh Ramoowalia) A Crusader against NRIs excesses

I m of the opinion that many families will shy away for the collection of Database for the sake of Socity, as for this the full biodata of girl will be available in the database.

Always at ur service . TC

--user:sarbjeet_1313me 02:44, 23 July 2010 (UTC)


PARATMA is not GOD, neither etymologically, nor philosphycally not gurmatically (Lucky 22:46, 23 July 2010 (UTC))

Another ad

Hari ji, another ad has been added by new user User:MamieFlora.‎

There is no Param + Atma in Gurbani

Sir ji, Don't confuse PARMATAM word

ਜਿਨੀ ਆਤਮ੝ ਚੀਨਿਆ ਪਰਮਾਤਮ੝ ਸੋਈ ॥ Those who understand their own souls, are themselves the Supreme Soul.

There is word PARM + ATAM in gurbani the one who understand's his soul is PARAM + ATAM and it's definately not god.

So as Guru Sahib instructs:

ਝਨਾ ਅਖਰਾ ਮਹਿ ਜੋ ਗ੝ਰਮ੝ਖਿ ਬੂਝੈ ਤਿਸ੝ ਸਿਰਿ ਲੇਖ੝ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥੨॥
No accounting is due from the Gurmukh who understands the Lord through these letters. ||2||

These letters are written to understand the concept, we have have to understand the rhythm in which gurbani is written and have not to add additional word as our previous scholars did and i know that you know this much better than me.

God is much beyond these letters written in Bani, Kabir said:

ਝ ਅਖਰ ਖਿਰਿ ਜਾਹਿਗੇ ਓਇ ਅਖਰ ਇਨ ਮਹਿ ਨਾਹਿ ॥੧॥
These letters shall perish; they cannot describe the Imperishable Lord. ||1||

So better we stick to Letters properly or should we not?

PARM + ATAM not PARAMATMA (There is nowhere in gurbani the word PARAMATMA neither it means GOD)


ਆਤਮ੝ ਚੀਨਿ ਪਰਾਤਮ੝ ਚੀਨਹ੝

First Step : ਆਤਮ੝ ਚੀਨਿ, one becomes PARAMATAM i.e not god
Second Step : ਪਰਾਤਮ੝ ਚੀਨਹ੝

ਆਤਮਾ ਪਰਾਤਮਾ ਝਕੋ ਕਰੈ ॥
His soul and the Supreme Soul become one.

ਅੰਤਰ ਕੀ ਦ੝ਬਿਧਾ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਮਰੈ ॥੧॥
The duality of the inner mind is overcome. ||1||

Now do you means SOUL = ATMA and PAR + ATAMA = 1 is the last stage i mean revelation of god? Just a question, and hope you will make me understand this better. _____________________________

and ya thanks for Correcting NANAKWADI article, my uncle is manager of this gurdwara, once they asked about authenticity of Bab nanak visit to vadodara i gave him two references. but i am still confused why they stick history board that NANAK came HERE only and stayed here only. I have to search for historical truth behind that place. To take more donations some people used to affix fake histories in gurdwara and it's very bad. what you think?

(Lucky 00:46, 25 July 2010 (UTC))

Page on Krishna

Page on Krishna, just wanted to make you aware of …

The posting of illustrations that include images and iconography of another's religion in a negative light, such as the included imagery of Krishna with a flute with a big red x over it, and one with an image clearly understood to be that of Guru Gobind Singh aiming one of his arrows at Krishna's heart while naked women with their breasts exposed dance about in their bath, seems very out of place here.

How would one feel seeing the Khanda, Nishan Sahib or an image of any Sikh Guru painted over with a red X?

I remember the outrage over the use of an image often said to be a depiction of a particular Guru, in the UK or US that was used to hawk some product.

Guru Gobind Singh's father died in defense Hindus being able to practice their religion in their own way, no doubt Guru Tegh Bahadur's sacrifice and martyrdom played a large role in his son's decision to initiate the Khalsa.

I think he saw the Bani of the Singhs as a lamp post in a sea of trouble, someone to look to for help, not as someone making fun of or bragging of the superior aspects of one's religion over anothers.

If we need to express personal opinions or the darkness of our own minds, I think we should limit that to the talk pages and leave our opinions, whether brilliant or idiotic out of the pages.

Allenwalla 23:28, 25 July 2010 (UTC)


sorry for affixing those images but few things i want to share,

1) The Image was to Tell that we do not believe in Krishna as described previously, so the previous explanation is cut and real and spiritual explanation, in light of our prestigious granths(Gurmat).

2) It's not that, our religion is correct, it is that Gurmat is correct and gurmat is not bound to any religion.

3) If they put cross around trubans and Kirpan logically, then we should accept it, But if they are marking crosses illogically then we should not. If i have marked cross to Krishna illogically then you could take action on me.

4) The image which i have have affix have no problem, but ya second image which i constructed i have to work on that.

our Ram is not Hindu's ram so previous oine cut, Namdev himself said (Pandey tumra ram chand woh bi avat dekhya, ravan ke sang sarbar hoyi ghar ki joye gavai thee) means o pundit i have seen your ramchandra who vanishd his life finding seeta whom ravana has taken away,,, and this explanatiuon is against our RAM i.e Sabey Ghat ram boley. Ram speaks in everyone.

sly, Durga itself is formless character as explained by Guru Gobind SIngh, to tell people that we do not worship whom you worship. I adopted this methodology without caring emotions of followers of LIES.

Baki meri koi dushmani nahi hai, mere bohot hindu dost ne jo eh gall mandey ne, so oh hindu nahi ne oh vi GURMATT nu samjh rahe ne, GUrmukh bann rahe ne. GURUAN ne HINDU dharam de lokan nu reality dassi taan hee hindu Sikh bande rahe, hor sikh kehda asmaan ton digge c. Bas jo Sach de magar pai geya SIKH.

Baki yah if it is giving bad impression on SIkhiwiki,

remove it,

But it is truth.

Sorry if my bhavna is wrong (paapi 09:27, 26 July 2010 (UTC))

also kindly delete these three pictures, these are more illogical on sikhiwiki, but that CROSS picture is i think right and inline with philosphy, without any emotions(ATTACHMENT), just truth. I have tagged these three to delete.

thanks (paapi 09:36, 26 July 2010 (UTC))

Replying Questions one by one

1) Bhagat Dhanna and Stones:

To be very frank, This is a Sakhi, a story which was made by some Hindu Minded Party(worshipper of stones, pls don't mind). Bhagat Dhanna haven't Said in his bani that he find God in Stone. Bhagat Dhanna Said:

ਗਿਆਨ ਪ੝ਰਵੇਸ੝ ਗ੝ਰਹਿ ਧਨ੝ ਦੀਆ ਧਿਆਨ੝ ਮਾਨ੝ ਮਨ ਝਕ ਮਝ ॥
The Guru has given the wealth of spiritual wisdom; practicing meditation, the mind becomes one with Him.

ਧੰਨੈ ਧਨ੝ ਪਾਇਆ ਧਰਣੀਧਰ੝ ਮਿਲਿ ਜਨ ਸੰਤ ਸਮਾਨਿਆ ॥੪॥੧॥
Dhanna has obtained the Lord, the Sustainer of the World, as his wealth; meeting the humble Saints, he merges in the Lord. ||4||1||

Bhagat Dhanna is denying what you have written or what we all think. So Story about which you are telling contradicts Gurmat and Dhanna's own Bani.

Fourth Mehla Bhai Jetha Ramdass also said, that how dhanna met god:

ਜੋ ਜੋ ਮਿਲੈ ਸਾਧੂ ਜਨ ਸੰਗਤਿ ਧਨ੝ ਧੰਨਾ ਜਟ੝ ਸੈਣ੝ ਮਿਲਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਦਈਆ ॥੭॥
blessed Dhanna and Sain; all those who joined the humble Saadh Sangat, met the Merciful Lord. ||7||

So it's not Dhanna of gurbani about which you are speaking. May be you are talking about some other Dhanna, which is out of guru granth sahib. Even not attained God with philosphy of Sikhism,

This crossing image technique is actually required, to tell SIKHS(not only hindus) that at least your chandi is not hindu's one, your ram is not hindus one. Person captures easily watching to images, especially today when person do not believe in reading at all. This is required for inidia may be UK or USA is full of gurmukh. I know this country well.

I could not draw SOUL, MANN, PARMESHAR sorry, else this image was not required

I will answer your remaining questions as i am busy in some work, Come to you later. Do have search on Bhagat Dhanna's way of thinking and that SAKHI. NO COMPARISON

(paapi 22:53, 26 July 2010 (UTC))

Bhai Gurdas

Ya Bhai Gurdas have written that, and surely he was not hindu and ya he composed GUru Granth Sahib too. Why he wrote against philosphy?

So Idol Worship should be allowed. Who knows when God(AJOONEE) comes out of it and eat our food?

cud you prove that waar is inline with Gurmat?

Take Reference of Guru Granth Sahib and Dasam Granth and prove that Var is inline with Gurmat. I Feel Vaars are Adulterated, but who will decide?

You/our, Guru Guru Granth Sahib right? So prove it with elp of GUru Granth Sahib

Moreover i should not say this because you believe in Vaars. and who am i to hurt someone beliefs

(paapi 00:29, 27 July 2010 (UTC))

Sorry, but High Priests?

It seems my objections and concerns may have caused you extra trouble, and now I question words such as treachery (personal opinion) and I didn't know that Sikhi had High Priests, perhaps its just very late and tiredness has creeped in. Perhaps I am getting overly picky about words. re last postings on Professor Darshan Singh Khalsa.

It seems a hard concept to get that All is part of God's doing and Creation, still Guru Arjan's telling people not to interfere in God's plan, as he refused to allow Hazrat Mian Mir to work for his release, makes me wonder…

Rab Rakha, a/w

Waheguru JI Ka KHalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Sir, i was watching an article Prof. Dasrhan Singh Khalsa. Do you think we should use Khalsa word for Professer Sahib, he is excommunicated for maintaining controversies of Dasam Granth. He is still doing that in his website and academy without understanding deep meanings of it. He is too against Amrit Ceremony and we are using word KHALSA for him, why? He do not want to understand meanings of Dasam Granth in light of Guru Granth Sahib. isn't he stubborn, or should we say Khalsa is stubborn. are Khalsa those who try to divide and rule? i think you should check whole article because it is stressing on one side of Darshan Singh only. Right now he is self proclaimed Khalsa or rumoured khalsa nothing else. The person who is against every other granth except guru granth sahib means he do not know teachings of guru granth sahib. he is Mukhgyani(just seen the article) Take care(Lucky 09:42, 27 July 2010 (UTC))

Prof. Darshan Singh ji's Page.


Someone has completely changed Prof. Darshan Singh ji's page - someone who obviously doesn't like him. They've made the page extremely opinionated and dislike him so much that they have changed his name. I don't know if people like this belong on such engines like this.

What they could have done is add extra sections to support their "facts". No one should have a problem with that.

Thank you ji.

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