Talk:Vegetarianism

From SikhiWiki
Jump to: navigation, search

Major editing needed

This is disgraceful,we have advertising for a website and we have articles promoting an eating style. This is page should be kept out sikhi wiki as we do not want to be giving our own personal motives in these articles. For once, people, just let othes eat the way the way the want to eat, and do not going around forcing others to view your view point. Advertsing on a sikhi site that supports someones viewpoint is not acceptable.

Keep sikhi simple and equal for all.

I have removed the advertising logo.

-LC

ISSUE: UNDERSTANDING GURBANI

SGGS Page 1289 Full Shabad

Maas Maas Kar Moorakh Jhagdy......... Darpan Pg1289-15

Term 'Kuthha in Gurbani means Kuthha or Any Meat

for KUTHA

Prof Sahib Singh

1....... ਇਸੇ ਤਰ੝ਹਾਂ ਇਹ ਗੱਲ ਭੀ ਨਹੀਂ ਕਿ ਇਥੇ ਮੱਛੀ ਦਾ ਮਾਸ ਖਾਣ ਤੋਂ ਰੋਕ ਰਹੇ ਹਨ । ਸਾਰੇ ਪ੝ਰਸੰਗ ਨੂੰ ਰਲਾ ਕੇ ਪੜ੝ਹੋ........

2. English translation not available. Will make a crude attempt. Scholars/any Sikh/any Sikhipedian may please help! Amita Singh

Shiromini Gurdwara Parbandak Commettee

3. Published in Sikh Rahit Mariyada.

Sdr Gurbaksh Singh Kala Afgana

4. In his Book 'Maas Maas Kar Moorakh Jhagdy'

Mutia

5. I am LORD TRUTH's Mutia.Thou dragged me here.

for ANY MEAT

Bhai Manmohan Singh

4. This Article.

Bhai Randhir Singh

5. Mutia Looks forward to contributions from all human beings.

WKWF ! Amita Singh 7 am 28 oct 05

Sayth SatGur

  • 1. SGGS does not concern/associate with either vegetarianism or non-vegetarianism. Why should we Sikhs??
  • 2. SATGUR expounds at length about the need to abandon various vices, but says nothing about the need to abandon non-vegetarian diets. Let us abandon nothing but 'vices' . Ego to begin with.
  • 3. SATGUR does not attempt to pass judgement on the dietary components required for maintaining a healthy human body. If we Sikhs consider ourself educated & civilised let us
study /read  / write / discuss / & quoat  modern day science & formal scientific studies.

SATGUR does, however, recommend against consuming substances that either cause grief/pain to body or generate mental turbulence. (Doctors for sure will guide us Sikhs better than vegi/nonvegi fighters)

  • 4. Those that choose to dwell on the consumption of substances .--ketiyan moorakh Khahin khahyn....SGGS rather than focus their minds on remembering TRUTH have been derided by SATGUR ('consumed by the desire for substances').

Let us Sikhs stand by 'Lord TRUTH' & Sikhism, & no way directly/indirectly/passively/actively by 'fools' and debates' or by any consumer/spritual/vegiterian/non Vegitarian ISMs)

This 'desire' can be either for a single substance or for a number of substances.Let us Sikhs harbour none

It is worth noting that the SatGur Granth Sahib mentions the desire for meat at the very end of a list of nine desires:

'The desires for gold, silver, women, fragrances,'

'horses, beds, palaces, sweets, and meat.'

(Verse 43/1, p. 34) [Guru Nanak, Adi Granth, p. 15]

(It is the passion/desire/temptation of indulgence in genral. Further a Sikh is expected to use his 'Akal'(mind).........Aklin Sahib SaviYy Aklin deejy daan)

It is clear from Guru verse (above) that 'SHABAD guru' accords status of yerning for meat similar to that for gold, silver, women, fragrances, horses, beds, palaces, and sweets.

To forget 'Lord TRUTH' and remain obsessed with substances is 'desire.' (Let us Sikhs desire to glorify nothing in any way ever, but 'Lord TRUTH' . Amost the entire Non- Sikh population, at least in India, as it is doing enough to profess that No 1 sin in this universe is 'eating meat' & only route to realise 'TRUTH' is vegetarianism. Let us Spread the Word of nothing but NAAM(Live Truthfull life by 'TRUTH' & draw sustinance fron nothing but TRUE IDEAs ie Satgur/Shabad/Guru/SGGS ,DAAN(Share TRUTH & TRUE IDEAs) & ISHNAAN (Teach no one but our own self)

For those that are immersed in the rememberance of God, no substance is 'desirous.'

To obsess unduly on meat, i.e. only one of the nine desires acknowledged by the Adi Granth, is tantamount to ignoring the fundamental messages of the Adi Granth. (Let us Sikhs not do that)

  • 5. To attach undue importance to matters of eating and drinking rather than focusing on remembering TRUTH has been termed by our Gurus as harmful to the pursuit of a spiritual lifestyle. Furthermore, our Gurus have placed meat on par with other superior substances such as fruit, butter, jaggery, and refined flour.

'What good are fruits, butter, sweet jaggery, refined flour, and meat?'

(Verse 44/2, p. 34) [Guru Nanak, Adi Granth, p. 142]

Verses such as the one above make it abundantly clear that it is not incorrect to view meat on par with other superior substances such as gold, silver, butter, jaggery, and refined flour.

  • 6. Bhai Randhir Singh and other writers opposed to non-vegetarian diets have omitted verses that do not suit their purpose.Consequently, these writers have zoomed in on just two of Guru Nanak's verses, namely: 'Mortals are first conceived in flesh and subsequently dwell on flesh' and 'Fools argue about flesh and meat but know little about meditation and spiritual wisdom.' (Guru Nanak, Adi Granth, p. 1289). Even these two verses have only been mentioned out of compulsion since the Sikh. community is already exposed to these verses. Preachers, Guru Nanak's biographies, and other historical texts have widely publicized these verses due to their said reference to Guru Nanak's visit to Kurukshetra.

(Let us Sikhs TRUTHfully stand by TRUTH & not by typical 'pandas')

Nevertheless, these writers have tried their level best to distort the meanings of these verses.

Let us Sikhs TRUTHfully understand LORD TRUTH & TRUE IDEAs from
 one TRUE perspective.Gurbani is brief,objective to preciseness of
 machine language. No subjective interpretation in no way can be
 approved by any Sikh., If we do not understand & comprehend the
 depth & magnonimity of of GURU's teachings in the accedamic 
 sessions gone by ,let us study better, study right syllabuss. This is as
 simple as that. One does not have to be a scholar to cmprehend
 it. Just ask any school going/college student as to how he improves
 his gradings)         

Clearly, Bhai Randhir Singh has been guided not by an in-depth understanding of the Adi Granth but by his own agenda, wishes, and desires.

  • 7. The meat that Muslim's have always referred to as 'halal' began to be referred to by brahmins as 'kutha' meat of the 'malech.'
  • 8. The following are the reasons why Sikhs were forbidden from eating kutha meat:

a. During Mughal rule, kutha meat was used to destroy the Hindu faith.

Eating kutha meat was considered a sin by Hindus.

b. According to Mughal law, Hindus were neither permitted to keep weapons at home nor allowed to cook and eat any form of meat.

10th Nanak, placed two major impediments in the way of Mughal oppression via his decision to a) arm the Sikhs and b) ban Sikhs from consuming katha food preparations.

  • 9. Only those Adi Granth verses that refer to Islam have used the term 'kutha.' Otherwise, the terms 'kuh' or 'kuhi' (slaughter) have been employed.

Therefore, it is clear that the convention of referring to meat prepared in the Muslim style as 'Kutha' existed at least since Guru Nanak's time.

  • 10. The body may die, but never the soul.
  • 11. Mankind (as opposed to God) has devised different names for identifying the various types of externally distinguishable living organisms.

It is mankind that considers it sinful to eat certain living organisms and not others.A

  • 12. The Adi Granth has compared the bodies of living organisms to gowns, clothing, etc.

Therefore, it is mankind that has invented convenient terminology such as flour, meat, spinach, wood, etc. to refer to various bodies/coverings/clothing.

Disputes over the difference between spinach and meat are simply the result of either human ignorance or mischief.

  • 13. The human body is unique among all other species.

This is because of all species God has awarded the ability to distinguish moral right from wrong only to humans.

  • 14. Only the human mind is capable of yearning for relief from sorrow or attainment of happiness.

All other species lack the ability to yearn.

It is a recipe for winning the world by being victorious over the human mind.

The Adi Granth teaches us how to channel the immense forces of the human mind into positive directions.


None of the great holy books preaches about the welfare of living creatures.

We have continuously been engaged in the endeavor of reigning in the human mind.

  • 16. The Adi Granth frequently refers to the human body as rare (unique) or God's temple.

The human body has been likened to a horse that carries the soul into God's country and a ladder that helps humans climb great heights to reach God's palaces.

It is for this reason that the human body is supreme among eighty-four lakh (84 times 100,000) species.2

Therefore, human society did not accept the idea of eating human flesh.

All other species such as animals, birds, insects, and micro-organisms are ingested into the human body in one form or another. In many other ways these animals and birds are slave to the superior human species.3

  • 17. Eating and drinking are pure acts. However, the Adi Granth code of conduct places restrictions on the consumption of those substances which humans have manifested as desires that either harm the human body or cause grief.
  • 18. Humans have treated meat as a part of their diet since ancient times.

Even today there are several peoples on this earth whose primary diet consists of animals, birds, and fish.

  • 19. All living things - including lentils, vegatable oils, insects, micro-organisms, animals, and birds - possess equivalent life.

Our merciful behavior toward animals and birds should include every effort toward attention to their diet and comfort, protection from their mistreatment as beasts of burden, offering relief from pain and suffering.4

Whenever treatment is not feasible, it is merciful to assist helpless animals by sparing them pain and discomfort by ending their life swiftly via a blow to the head, electricity, etc.

  • 20. No faith founder has campaigned against the trade of millions of pounds of meat, fish, and eggs - trade in non-vegetarian commodities continues just as seamlessly as trade in grains.

Since ancients times animals and birds have been cultivated and harvested for trade just like crops. </div>

Lord Truth alias Bani alias Khalsa's ONE VERDICT:

sau siaxy ikk gll mUrka aapo aapxe

  • Therefore, to raise issues pertaining to vegetarianism and non-vegetarianism is sheer foolishness.
  • The decision regarding whether or not to consume non-vegetarian diet should be upto each individual.
  • Neither does one become sinful by consuming meat nor does one become pious by renouncing meat.
  • The Adi Granth, which embodies the spirit of Guru Nanak, does not attempt to define restrictions pertaining to religious duties and horoscopes?.
  • Let us not distort the true import of the following verse from our Guru:
  • 'Fools argue about flesh and meat but know little about meditation and spiritual wisdom.'
  • 'Which is meat? Which is spinach? Which is sinful?' SGGS Pg-1289

(Source Sikh Times.com Friday Oct 28 05) -Amita Singh 9:57 pm 28 Oct 05


Fully support above views....tyry miTwy ny lg2y boooooooooooooooooooooooool!!!!--One 04:43, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


user:sarbjeet_1313me


15 Oct 2007

Go Veg ?

  • The logo appearing in a style typical of advertising / conveying a social/ political message is against GurMat & the very foundation of SikhiWiki.


kiv kr akha, kiv sahahi, kiv vrxe kiv jaxa, nank aKx sb ko aakyy ik 2u ikk siaaxa


jo boly so nihal!!

Mutia 19 Mar 06 updated by --One 04:26, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Mohsin Fani Quote - Incorrect

The Mohsin Fani quote, stated below is wrong:

Mohsin Fani (1615-70), the well known historian and a contemporary of Sri Guru Hargobind Sahib, writes in his work Dabistan-E-Mazahib as follows:

"Having prohibited his disciples to drink wine and eat pork, he (Nanak) himself abstained from eating flesh and ordered not to hurt any living being. After him this precept was neglected by his followers; but Arjun Mal, one of the substitutes of his Faith, renewed the prohibition to eat flesh and said: This has not been approved by Nanak." 13

What clear cut evidence against eating flesh and drinking wine in Sikhism!

Here is the full quote:

Many person became his disciples. Nanak believed in the Oneness of God and in the way that it is asserted in Muhammadan theology. He also believed in transmigration of souls. Holding wine and pork to be unlawful, he had [himself] abandoned eating meat. He decreed avoidance of causing harm to animals. It was after his time that meat-eating spread amongst his followers. Arjan Mal, who was on of his lineal succesors, found this to be evil. He prohibited people from eating meat, saying “This is not in accordance with Nanak’s wishes”. Later, Hargobind, son of Arjan Mal, ate meat and took to hunting. Most of their [the Gurus] followers adopted his practice. Mobad’ Dabistan-I Mazahib 1645-46


Please change.


Please provide link to the original text & translation for this text (if possible, on the internet) so that this can be verified. If this is a secondary source, please provide this source and a link to the site so that the reliability of the source can be checked.

It appears that your suggested text agrees with most of what has been quoted in the articles but adds to it. The addition "Later, Hargobind, son of Arjan Mal, ate meat and took to hunting. Most of their [the Gurus] followers adopted his practice" completely contradicts the fact that "…causing harm to animals" and "… meat-eating.." was "not in accordance with Nanak’s wishes". If you believe that Guru Nanak opposed "meat-eating and causing harm to animals" then no Guru would have taken to this practise. How can you justify different behaviour by different Gurus on this issue? This is unprecedented and beyond belief. What explanation can you offer for this inconsistency? --Hari Singh 17:15, 6 January 2007 (MST)