User talk:Ms514
Dear Ms514 ji,
I am sorry but I have changed the article Sri Guru Granth Sahib on dance to the original form for the following reasons:
- 1. Khalsa ji, You failed to discuss these changes on the talk page before carrying them out. This is against Sikhiwiki rules and also not acceptable as any fundamental changes to an article must first be discussed and agreed before changes are made to the article. I know you are new to SikhiWiki and I do not hold this action against you in anyway. Please, imagine the chaos that would result if all users constantly make changes directly to the article without discussion. The article would change constantly and be continuously varying, without the reader understanding the true position.
- 2. All articles in this series are totally based on Gurbani - not on anything else - not on what SGPC says; not based on what historical records say, not on common practise, etc. The title of the article makes this very clear. With these series of articles we only follow Gurbani and Gurmat! not history, which is not always correctly recorded and not anything else.
- 3. Not everything that the Gurus did personally is recorded correctly in historical records. Did the Guru's sit in Langar daily to take food?-Where is it written; did the Guru use a tooth brush or do Daatan? Did the Gurus use soap or oil when taking a bath? What was their favourite food; colours; etc? Did they wear cotton or silk? Did they wear leather? Did all the Guru take Laava - where is it written for each Guru and their children - which ones took laava? where is it recorded? etc. At any of the Guru's wedding, what happened - can you find the same record written by two or more sources? When did the wedding start? is it recorded? Is this correct? Is it confirmed exactly by another source? When you study these you will find huge anomalies. At SikhiWiki we cannot agree of some of the dates of birth and jotijot of the Gurus and their families; how are we going to agree on other things?
- 4. Is a Sikh, a follower of Gurbani or of Sikh history? If you think we should follow Sikh history, then which history do we believe? One written by Muslim writers; by Udasis; by Nirankaris; by the Lubanaas; by the English? If you say Sikh writer, then which ones because many differ on some of the key issues? just look at the history of 1699. Some say there was a tent and the 5 were taken there; other say there was no tent and the 5 were in full sight of the sangat? Which one do we believe?
So Khalsa ji, we cannot rely on history. Please refer to Gurbani because that is our Guru that is what we follow here at SikhiWiki. Once you have done that then please discussion your finding on the talk/discussion page of the article.
I am sorry that I have had to revert the article but your reasons were not acceptable in the form that they were written. Just because it is not written in Sikh history that the Gurus brushed their teeth does not mean they did not do it!
Gurbani addresses the issue of dancing and singing very clearly, so please explain why you find this not acceptable. Why does the tuk which says - "Gurmukẖ gĝvai gurmukẖ nĝcẖai har sėṯī cẖiṯ lĝvaṇiĝ." - "The Gurmukhs sing , the Gurmukhs dance, and focus their consciousness on the Lord." does not appear to be correct to your mind. Please share this with us as we may learn from this answer.
The tuk is in simple Punjabi - "Gurmukh gavai, Gurmukh nachai" - It is so plain that in my opinion, it cannot be misinterpreted - It plainly means: "Gurmukhs sing, the Gurmukhs dance ..." or "Gurmukh sings, the Gurmukh dances ...". It cannot mean anything else.
The translation by Sant Singh appears to be correct but for the record I checked the translation by Manmohan Singh. He says, "Guru's true Sikh, sings, Guru's true Sikh dances and fixes his mind with God. Pause. " - Not materially different!
Khalsa ji, please do not feel offended by my action as these can be changed again by just pressing one button. Please share your views in terms of Gurbani so that we may learn from each other. As Sikhs we are all students and we can learn from the Guru but we can also learn from each other. I hope you will feel positive enough to discuss your position.
Yours neighbour on the Guru's path to a better place. Guru dee fateh, regards, Hari Singhtalk 03:01, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
