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| | Thank you Hari Singh Ji |
| |'''Please Note:''' To add a message, please click on [[Image:Edit tab1.JPG]] at the top of the page. This will give you a blank page - Add a brief title at ''Subject/headline:'' line and your main message in the body. Sign off by clicking on the [[Image:Signature icon.jpg]] on top of the message box. Then just save the page in the normal way.
| | --[[User:Tarquin|Tarquin]] ([[User talk:Tarquin|talk]]) 11:35, 14 October 2019 (MDT) |
| |}<br><br><br><br>
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| {{Please read}}
| | hi hari singh ji about sikh kumhar and also delete Jas Hunjan - Professional PlayStation Gamer and PSN ID - Shenmue_Singh and Leaderboards (PSN Trophy Leaders.com) from Eminent Kumhars soon as possible |
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| ==Archived Files==
| | -- '''not possible to navigate to Punjabi language in translation selection tab'''-- |
| {|style="font-size:85%;"
| | Gurfteh Hari Singh ji, |
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| | I am not able to access Punjabi language in translation selection tab .see image attached .it is in chrome browser for mobile , please help to build navigation in selection tool. |
| * [[User_talk:Hari_singh/Archive2005|Archive 2005 - all 05]]
| | [[file:Chrome view of laguage selections.jpg|thumb]] |
| * [[User_talk:Hari_singh/Archive2006|Archive 2006 - all 06]]
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| * [[User_talk:Hari_singh/Archive1|Archive 1 - to 10 May 07]]
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| * [[User talk:Hari singh/Archive2|Archive 2 - to 13 Jul 07]]
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| * [[User_talk:Hari_singh/Archive3|Archive 3 - to 26 Oct 07]]
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| * [[User_talk:Hari_singh/Archive4|Archive 4 - to 30 Jan 08]]
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| * [[User_talk:Hari_singh/Archive5|Archive 5 - to 05 Apr 08]]
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| * [[User talk:Hari singh/Archive6|Archive 6 - to 21 Jun 08 ]]
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| * [[User talk:Hari singh/Archive7|Archive 7 - to 23 Jan 09 ]]
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| * [[User talk:Hari singh/Archive8|Archive 8 - to 12 Nov 09 ]]
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| * [[User talk:Hari singh/Archive9|Archive 9 - to 26 Jan 10 ]]
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| * [[User talk:Hari singh/ArchiveA|Archive A - to 16 Mar 10 ]]
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| |}
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| == Active Users as at 20 April 2008==
| | --[[User:Guglani|Guglani]] ([[User talk:Guglani|talk]]) 09:53, 8 May 2023 (UTC) |
| {| style="font-size:85%;"
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| * [[User:Gmustuk|Gurumustuk Singh]]
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| * [[User:Hari singh|Hari Singh]]
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| * [[User:Hpt lucky|Harpreet Singh]] [[User_talk:Hpt lucky|<sup>talk</sup>]]
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| * [[User:Sarbjeet 1313me|Sarbjeet]] [[User_talk:Sarbjeet 1313me|<sup>talk</sup>]]
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| * [[User:Allenwalla|Allenwalla]] [[User_talk:Allenwalla|<sup>talk</sup>]]
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| * [[User:Sunnybondsinghjalwehra|Sunny]] [[User_talk:Sunnybondsinghjalwehra|<sup>talk</sup>]]
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| * [[User:Mutia|Amita Singh]] [[User_talk:Mutia|<sup>talk</sup>]]
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| * [[User:Thegreateditor|Ustaad Singh]] [[User talk:Thegreateditor|<sup>talk</sup>]]
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| * [[User:Paapi|Jarnail]] [[User talk:Paapi|<sup>talk</sup>]]
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| * [[User:A. S. Aulakh|Akashdeep Singh]] [[User_talk:Allenwalla|<sup>talk</sup>]]
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| * [[User:Guglani|Guglani]] [[User_talk:A. S. Aulakh|<sup>talk</sup>]]
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| * [[User:Navroopsehmi|Navroop Singh]] [[User_talk:Navroopsehmi|<sup>talk</sup>]]
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| * [[User:Singh| Ashvinder (Ash) Singh]]
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| * [[User:CanuckSingh|Canuck Singh]]
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| * [[User:Gurujot Singh|Gurujot Singh]]
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| * [[User:Amar P Singh|Amar P Singh]]
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| * [[User:Manvirsingh|Manvir Singh]]
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| * [[User:Singh6|Singh6]]
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| |}
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| ==messages==
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| ===first message===
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| Everyone is fine here. I was reading research articles of Harpal Singh Kasoor on the website:
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| [http://satguru.weebly.com/makindu-sahib-sri-hargobindpura-of-east-africa.html Satguru at Makindu Sahib], he given many proofs to prove his points. His whole researches and material is available on the website. Though he claims(or may be mistakenly wrote) that Sixth Guru Hargobind also visited Africa and this is new saying in historians world. I Contacted a Historian Narinder Singh, he will give me details of Hargobind Visits and lifetime, and i will upload that here too.
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| I had a nice trip to Toka Sahib in Sirmaur district will upload it's images shortly. You kindly go through his website and tell if anything is logical their. You can contact with Harpal Singh too on his mail ID for furthur queries.
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| ([[User:Hpt lucky|Lucky]] 12:11, 16 March 2010 (UTC))
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| ==Baba Buddha==
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| I have added <nowiki>{{Mergeto|article=Baba Buddha}}</nowiki> and <nowiki>{{Mergeto|article=Baba Buddha}}</nowiki> to the two articles. also were the Merge templates already created? I saw one for Merge but it seemed like only useful if suggesting to merge the information within article, so used the Merge template to make [[Template:Mergeto]] (to be used on articles that will be merged with another) and [[Template:Mergefrom]] (to be used on articles with which another will be merged). Is that okay? [[User:Gman124|Gman124]] 00:41, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
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| == Please help ==
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| Hari ji, I have made a box (check Baba Buddha) and added it to the page Baba Buddha. I still do not have my programs loaded on my computer. To make the box I had to use my wife's laptop which has the newest version of everything that I am not familiar with. Anyway my reason for doing the box is to limit edits while someone is doing something as complicated as combining articles.
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| In particular my new attempt apparently has several inches of white space included below the box. With whatever you edit the photos/illustrations with could you resize the box or even better make a new box with a similar message, perhaps adding a message that someone has undertaken the requested task.
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| People have egos and I would not like to be the source of getting rid of someones edits, done while I am working for what might be hours only to get the message - someone else has edited this box while you were working on it and then have to look for peoples' changes, while trying not to lose hours of work.
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| This seems to be a useful item for anyone. I saw the request, normally with the 24" screen I can open two pages side by side and read and combine easily. Also several programs edit text and check spelling - I have been educating my dictionary slowly with many punjabi, hindi and urdu, ect. words (english/roman script).
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| Thanks, [[User:Allenwalla|Allenwalla]] 17:18, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
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| will erase in a few days.
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| Shai Sahib ji, please see below.
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| Baba Buddha ji (6 October 1506 was born on 6 October 1506
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| One day, when he was young, he was grazing cattle outside the village when Guru Nanak happened to pass by. According to Bhai Mani Singh's, Sikhan di Bhagat Mala (The Holy Sikh Jewels), Bura went up to him and, making obeisance with a bowl of milk as his offering, prayed to him saying:
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| The story below said that Bura (Baba Buddha ji ) was:
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| a small boy and Guru Nanak addressed him saying, You are only a child yet. -->The birth date of '''1506''' and the given date of the meeting of '''1524''', (when Guru Nanak Dev was 37) means he was 18 years old. A sentence or two later it is related that he was already married at 17 and spending time doing Seva at Kartarpur. Given that this is a story already woven into nearly Sikh site, I/we need to throughly check available dates, who gave them ect. A child of 6-9 being called Baba is very different from a young man of 18 being called Baba.
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| As currently stated:
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| "O sustainer of the poor! I am fortunate to have had a sight of you today. Absolve me now from the circuit of birth and death."
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| The Guru said, You are only '''a child yet''':.
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| But you talk so wisely." "Some soldiers set up camp by our village," replied Bura, "and they mowed down all our crops - ripe as well as unripe. Then it occurred to me that, when no one could check these indiscriminating soldiers, who would restrain death from laying his hand upon us, young or old." At this Guru Nanak pronounced the words: "You are not a child; you possess the wisdom of an old man." From that day, Bura, came to be known as Bhai Buddha, buddha in Punjabi means wise (wisdom usually only comes with age). Later, when advanced in years, he was known as Baba Buddha.
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| Bhai Buddha became a devoted disciple of Guru Nanak. His marriage at the age of seventeen at Achal, did not distract him from his chosen path and he spent more time at Kartarpur where Guru Nanak had taken up his abode.
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| You may have better books than I do. Please advise. [[User:Allenwalla|Allenwalla]] 17:59, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
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| == Thanks and will research as well ==
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| Hari ji, your dates agree with what I find as well. Thanks I've read the story several times, just when I think I've read every page, I come across ones I haven't seen.
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| The page titled Baba buddha sahib, is now empty - combined into the other article. Perhaps, the title, with caps added, should be redirected. [[User:Allenwalla|Allenwalla]] 22:53, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
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| I read the other day about Hindus giving 'nick' names till a Grandfather could make a name. I know Sikhs now select a name from the Guru Granth. Would this custom have disappeared by the time of Baba Buddha. Could Bura have been a 'nick' name given at birth?
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| == Horses, Elephants and Helicopters? ==
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| Not about a Sikh, but I thought you might enjoy this story, seems land speculation which because of a rapidly increasing population here in the US, made some cash out, and sell their family farms for Gold, is also making some wealthy in India as well.
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| http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/19/world/asia/19india.html?hp
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| ==vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh==
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| I think you have redirected page [[Khalsa Kaal Purakh Ki Fauj]] to [[Khalsa Akaal Purakh Ki Fauj]] under section further thoughts. I am not getting why you have done that? or may be you have redirected pages wrongly. There is not a Single granth which supports line -> Khalsa Akal Purakh ki Fauj(i.e man made line not Gurmat), but Sarabloh Granth which contains Khalsa Mahima(Khalsa Mero Roop hai khas) having line Kaal purakh ki Fauj. If you want i can upload the page here for you, where it is clearly mentioned and i know you will do Justice with Guru's words by correcting the article yourself.
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| Bhul Chuk Maaf
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| vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh ([[User:Thegreateditor|Editor]] 19:05, 20 March 2010 (UTC))
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| ** If you want me to upload and affix the copy of that page of Sarabloh Granth, i can do it for you? Is it required? and you must know a change of slight word changes some sense, moreover we are not Ram Raiyas, we should display truth only.
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| Bhul Chuk Maaf
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| vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh ([[User:Thegreateditor|Editor]] 19:05, 20 March 2010 (UTC))
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| == Sajjan Kumar to face trial ==
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| Thought this might be worth reading.
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| http://beta.thehindu.com/news/national/article259632.ece
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| The former Congress MP,[[Sajjan Kumar]], will face trial in the 1984 anti-Sikh riot cases as a Delhi court on Saturday referred the cases to a Special CBI Court, rejecting a plea of his.
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| As I only sleep for about 2 hours , I found this at 3:30 AM this morning. Though like any trial, one never knows the results, i am sure many will welcome the news. [[User:Allenwalla|Allenwalla]] 07:34, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
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| NEW DELHI, March 20, 2010
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| ==Khalsa Kaal Purakh ki Fauj==
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| vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh, <br>
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| Sarabloh Granth is Khalsa roop granth. The Khalsa Mahima is present in Sarabloh Granth not in Dasam Bani. I think that article(Khalsa Mahima) also need to be corrected, moreover it is written same is copied from Amrit Keertani. Some websites is showing Khalsa Mahima as part of Dasam thats totally result of ignorance.
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| [[Image:Khalsa Kaal purakhPage1.JPG|thumb|350px|left|Page 1 Khalsa mahima begins here]]
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| [[Image:Khalsa Kaal purakhPage2.JPG|thumb|350px|right|Page 2 that shabad of khalsa mahima ends here]]
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| Sikhiwiki have to show truth as when people searches this website comes in top and it's not good, when the top website is displaying incorrect things.Kindly check these two image files. If any problem do reply.
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| Bhul Chuk Maaf([[User:Thegreateditor|Editor]] 08:25, 21 March 2010 (UTC))
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| ** Well it's duty of sikhs to show truth. I am going to explore some true things which were preached wrong in past few decades. The ''Akal Purakh ki Fauj'' type people might thought that Sikhs would not able to read Sarabloh Granth so they keep on posting ''Akal Purakh'' in Amrit Kreertanis. thats we call ''Arth da Anarth''
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| Bhul Chuk Maaf([[User:Thegreateditor|Editor]] 04:43, 22 March 2010 (UTC))
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| ==[[Listening]]==
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| * Thanks, for correcting the article(Listening) and making it more meaningful. I am working more on this hope you will help in correcting language, and do work on Khalsa Kaal Purakh ki Fauj article. Is listening appropriate title or should it be ART of LISTENING? ([[User:Thegreateditor|Editor]] 16:27, 22 March 2010 (UTC))
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| == Another story ==
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| Hari ji, My wife brought this story to my attention, thought you might enjoy. Its about an eatery in New Delhi where people could be eating cheaply, but it is now in threat of closing its doors.
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| An aging Sikh laments:
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| http://www.time.com/time/video/player/0,32068,52626066001_1943064,00.html
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| This is a news service or site I had never seen before, this second piece of video is also very to the point for all of India, J and K, Pakistan and the world:
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| http://www.time.com/time/video/player/0,32068,32006696001_1919999,00.html
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| Here the internet is very slow, Europe I believe has much faster speeds, occasionally these films suddenly stop, then resume half a minute later.
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| == at the risk of boring you ==
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| Sardar ji, as I can't sit for very long, i do very little surfing. I do read several e-papers daily. Here, as is the entry above on a coffee shop, is another that I thought might be of interest. Unfortunately Parvez Rahim did not leave an e-mail address.
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| http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/letters-to-the-editor/dhrupad-gaeki-330
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| I only fear my posting will bore you to death and that you are being courteous and would never let me know otherwise.
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| Anyway as you have often posted things about musical forms, I sent the above. aw
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| == bow down befor NISHAAN SAHIB ==
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| Sir ji,
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| WAKAFA,
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| A question from a regular orkutian in a forum in orkut sikhiwiki.
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| ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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| '''Should be bow down befor NISHAAN SAHIB?
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| Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh
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| I used to see most of the people in various Gurudwara Sahibs revolve around and bow down before Nishaan Sahib. Should this be done? As our gurus say we should bow down only in front of Sri Guru Granth Sahib and nothing else.'''
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| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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| Could you tell the right answer please, kindly post in my user talk page, i will cpoy paste in orkut sikhiwiki with your reference.
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| Thanx. Guru Rakha,
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| --[[user:sarbjeet_1313me]] 16:07, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
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| == Got the answer ==
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| Sir ji ,
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| Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh,
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| as usual i got the instant reply from you,so nice for the beautiful answer.S.Mandeep Singh has replied to your answer as
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| '''Yup. Very True. I got my answer. Thanks for the clarification.'''
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| anyways how is the family,pay my kind regards to them,waheguru tuhanu hamesha chardi kala vich rakhe,thnx.
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| --[[user:sarbjeet_1313me]] 03:08, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
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| PS : Kindly upgrade the Active users list on your talk page as now its 2 years old
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| ==Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh==
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| [[File:sirmaur_history.jpg|thumb|right|300px|History Board at Kapal mochan Describes same event, even guru sahiban gave Hukamnama to Pundits which are still preserved their]]
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| * First thing topic of article is wrong, nowhere it is mentioned in Charitar that this is about King of Sirmaur. It is about King(Rai) but not Sirmaur King
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| * The Tale of King of Sirmaur is a historical Event from life of Guru Goind Singh. The History of Kapal Mochan shows clearly that it is related to Guru Gobind Singh. This history was agreed by all Sikh Sampardas including Akal Takhat, and it's very old history, before darshan singh entered in controversy he too saluted decision of Guru. I don't know why those lines are written their that ''This tale is not from the events in the Guru's life although some have projected this and related it to the period of the Guru's life in Paunta Sahib. '' As Guru Sahib entered some Chariters of his own life too in discussion. The Charitropakhyan showns manmatt and Gurmat, so collectively storied of guru times and older than that entered into opakhyan.
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| * A Gurdwara is still their in kapal mochan and is very old which is witness of this event.
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| ([[User:Thegreateditor|Editor]] 13:15, 25 March 2010 (UTC))
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| == Of marginal interest ==
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| Hari ji, this story has a very nice 'airbrushed' portrait (really beautiful work), but politics are at the core of the story.
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| http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/columnists/19-jawed-naqvi-beyond-bhagat-singhs-headgear-530-hh-11
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| AW
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| ==King of Sirmaur==
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| lol....Veer ji, when Emotions comes between then it's difficult to satisfy.<br>
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| Have you read the History board of Kapal Mochan which i have uploaded for you? <br>
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| '''Also, it is not in the style of Gurmat to "rob" someone of their property without proper due process. '''
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| This event happened because of few reasons. The people use to spoil Sarovars, by urinating around them and due to Rain all Mall Mootar comes in sarovar which was source of water to drink and same water is used in religious ceremonies. So Environmental awareness of Guru Gobind Singh made him play this Charitar. ''Eh Charitar Dharam vich reh ke khedya geya hai, Dharam to bahar nahi.'' Moreover they haven't robbed all they just removed some and maximum turbans falled in Stampede thats why turbans were washed. During that particular time guru sahib needed turban so both events happened simultaneously.
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| Secondly, Poetry have many flavours Veer Rass, Karuna Rass, Shingar Rass, Bhakti rass. Guru Gobind Singh was Good poet too and i think you know that. To explain GUrmat and Manmat Guru Gobind SIngh collected various stories including his too and put all them into that format.
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| Thirdly, In charitropakhyan there are 10 - 20 Male charitars too, If it is really explained by Mantri to King against women(Manmatti Ladies), then what those 20 Male charitars are doing there? and not all charitars about female but some are positive side too which contains Brahmgyan and Love. Guru sahib simply put whole stories to one package, Even Kekayi Charitar, Vishnu Charitar, Mohini Charitar etc. We have to think which is gurmat and which is manmatt. For that we should have Gurmat Vision and without it we will not able to interpret these charitars. The Charitar 71 is GUrmat nothing else, ''Gurmat vich reh ke Charitar khedna galat gal nahi and not every person can play it like GUru Gobind Singh Did''.
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| WHat more ''Saboot'' you need(other than history board) to prove that this Charitar is related to Guru Gobind Singh?
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| ([[User:Thegreateditor|Editor]] 13:07, 26 March 2010 (UTC))
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| ==Charitro-Opakhyan==
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| Veer Ji, Ki haal hai? Ghar sabh kiddan hai? Sukh saand hai??
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| Kirpaa kar ke Gurmat Moral of Story likongey, in this article [[Charitar_7#Moral_of_Story]]. Kindly Check this Template: [[Template:Charitar morals]]. If we will affix at top of every Charitar it would be better and will convey our message and our angle of interpretations. I want you to Kindly interpret all Stories and bring out Moral in light of Gurmat. Hope you will do so.
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| Hor gurmat life kiddan chaldi, koi gila shikwa maaf karna. Take care
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| ([[User:Hpt lucky|Lucky]] 18:52, 28 March 2010 (UTC))
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| ** Sabh Charhidi Kala he rehna chahida hai. Without 36 Mahapurkh and Patshahi 10 we could not think of truth(god). They showed us the way now it's our turn to guide ourselves. I am making 4 templates showing Numbering of charitars, we have to Do Gurmat interpretations and while writing interpretations of charitar do quote some gurmat line which could able to describe story.
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| English translation is not fully correct. I found much faults in translation but ya it would help you to understand concept but don't depend fully on english translation. This translation is done by Anti Dasam person so do read in punjabi and understand it.
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| Studies are going on, last two months and post graduation will finish. we talked on phone before 2 years, such a long time.
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| Veer ji what is difference between Story and Tale? Should saying Tale of King of sirmaur is right? or Charitar of King of Sirmaur is appropriate?([[User:Hpt lucky|Lucky]] 16:21, 29 March 2010 (UTC))
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| == Reading a book review ==
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| Bhai Sahib ji, Reading a book review this morning, I was surprised by the following lines--who?
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| ''Ernst also shares wonderful tidbits about the religious diversity that has long been a characteristic of Sufi culture.
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| '''Who knew, for example''', that verses by Sufi poet Fariduddin Ganj-i-Shakar have been incorporated into the Sikh scripture Guru Granth Sahib?''
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| http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/in-paper-magazine/books-and-authors/a-sufi-path-in-print
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| Here the local county library will usually buy any book I request, but like the reviewer I like photos captioned. [[User:Allenwalla|Allenwalla]] 15:26, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
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| == Border Guards meet in Amritsar ==
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| [[File:India-Pakistan meeting Amritsar 1.jpg|400px|thumb|right|]]
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| [[File:India Pak Meeting Amritsar 2.jpg|400px|thumb|right|]]
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| Bhai Sahib ji, this might be news worthy. One photo might be trimmed down to the top and sides of the banner - my photoshop is still not installed. the individual pictures were not captioned.
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| CS 5 Photo Shop, etc. is about to be released. We might update, as one new filter automatically cleans out problem areas in seconds. For instance wires in the photos of Gurdwaras could be removed in seconds - by a filter.
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| Story Dawn News: http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/news/media-gallery/30-pakistan-rangers-delegation-crosses-over-so-01
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| While big talks are still going slow at least some exchanges are happening.
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| Raab Rakha, [[User:Allenwalla|Allenwalla]] 19:38, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
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| ==Sat Sri Akal==
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| Kindly check the article. This was on one of charitar which was in controversy i.e [[Charitar_16]], i have extracted Gurmat views from it. I Want you to add more and read Charitar to get more. Read Gobind Sadan Teeka, at least they have word to word pure interpretation. Please work on this article. This can be flash article. More Gurmat views should be extracted from it. ([[User:Hpt lucky|Lucky]] 20:17, 31 March 2010 (UTC))
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| == Added a link ==
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| Hari Ji, I didn't know the part about 'KALASINGAS', but I know several Aggarwals in the Atlanta area, one an elderly gentleman who I like a lot.
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| Surely you have seen the below site. I found it very interesting. Glad the info helped, the info on Indian legal codes was on Wikipedia. April fools joke or not, the research was its own reward.
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| For stomach troubles my Doctor scoped my esophagus and stomach, (hiatial hernia) - prescription meds and over the counter remedies don't work well. Nights were often spent with my heart racing and terrible chest pain, with symptoms that mimic a heart attack.
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| Dr. Oz, a surgeon, a surgeon with a tv show, suggested taking vinegar, - awful idea for me! But one night when I was in agony (sure felt like a heart), I opened a jar of cornichons I had purchased a year ago [http://www.3pigs.com/pages/charcuterie-05.php], one little pickle ended the pressure immediately. I don't remember where I purchased that jar and now I can't find them anywhere, (check the added link, above) but hey sell over the net, perhaps they might help you as well.
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| For someone used to Indian food, these pickles may seem tame (very sour), but I like them. Have since found another brand (Maille) but they are not as good.
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| Anything with grease, bothers my wife as she had to have her gall bladder removed. (trivia) The mention of ghee reminds me of Damodara (and lobsters) who was particularly fond of butter, hence the dangerous human pyramidal climb during Holi, if i remember correctly.
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| Every time I read a report of an attack in Damodara (now a taliban hot spot) , the name of the town reminds me that the area was once part of India. Rope around the waist, a funny name for a town. [[User:Allenwalla|Allenwalla]] 09:51, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
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| re. the added link to the Kenya page
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| * Sikh Heritage in East Africa [http://www.sikh-heritage.co.uk/heritage/sikhhert%20EAfrica/sikhsEAfrica.htm]
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| will delete later
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| ==Sat Sri Akal==
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| Veer Ji, We will start with charitropakhyan at main page but after few days. You have brilliantly done with gurmat meanings of Triya Charitars. I want you to firstly start With MALE's Triya Charitar, Then we will continue with Female's Triya Charitar.
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| some things to keep in view:
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| # We are here to spread Positive messages of This Bani, dur to which it was composed by guru sahib.
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| # We should not let any Anti Dasam to spoil gurmat interpretation for their own motives.
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| # I want you to check people like Sunny Singh daod who could change article anytime, like he changed bachitar natak porition and confused with Poet Shyam and all other Emotional thoughts.
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| # Once we finish with one charitar in every aspect(Gurmat and explanation), it would be better to lock that charitar article and give previlege to only that user which can spread gurmat message in it.
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| # Charitar 16,21,22,23,71 seems nearer to GUru's life but these are not as all charitars are told as past like we say stories "EK RAJA HUNDA C", same is case in charitar. moreover if these are related to guru's life then it's not a big deal because in all these charitar male character is in limit of dharma, but no where it is proved that it is related to guru's life. i will bring all saboot in near future. so treat these 5 charitar incomplete.
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| #keep continuing the good work with other charitars and i am gaining reading your interpretation and will add what i know.
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| rabb rakha([[User:Hpt lucky|Lucky]] 15:39, 3 April 2010 (UTC))
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| '''Reply:''' Veer ji i said that i don't feel it is related to Guru, but if it is related in any sense then i would not have any problem because the character(Rai) was in limits of Dharma. I will not promote guru in those charitars but it would be better to spill out gurmat from it like you are doing.
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| I will create few images for all charitars, which will have lines from charitar which have relation to gurmat. The language of Charitropakhyan is not acceptable by people, as you know manmati people would stick to it's language only but we do not have to find from where greedy dog belong our aim is how greedy dog act and how we could prevent ourselves from it.
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| The negative point which goes against charitropakhyan is the language which is Kaam prominient, thats why i call it a test of gurmat knowledge. Some charitars are so that i could not get their conclusion(due to lack of my gurmat knowledge) but i feel now you will add gurmat to it and i am to consulting more gurmukhs who are giving gurmat morals of it. Manmukhs are sticking to just language and history of charitars(history of greedy dog) but we should not stick to it.
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| Find the nature of Triya(Man and woman) in Triya Charitars and give message accordingly.
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| We have to work on Bachitar Natak too. It's totally gurmat based Natak but some guys are playing with our emotions to show wrong image of natak. I am working on main article of charitropakhyan. Do you feel that we should write Anti Charitropakhyan's view on this bani in main article or not?([[User:Hpt lucky|Lucky]] 17:51, 3 April 2010 (UTC))
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| '''Again Reply:''' veer ji if we will create an anti article we will also considered as confuse platform in case of Charitropakhyan. In Main article we have Gurmat Description of Charitropakhayan and i am coming with more in few days. but if we will create an anti article it will makes anti people to visit the website and they blindly add much more which can confuse a begginer to sikhism. What we should do is to promote Gurmat knowledge. You have already given a bit anti description in beggining of article and thats enough. As we know few charitars are not historically correct and even linguistic problem is their but this all is for manmukhs we have not to go in history of these charitars. We have to take guidance of story. Now you tell if i will ask name of GREEDY dog in story The Greedy Dog, will you tel? It may happen may not, we should concern with moral to improve our character. Such Charitropakhyan will not harm you(Gurmukh) but it can harm youth easily because youth are most Kaamuk. They can easily go to wrong way thats why prerequisite is Guru granth, i am surprised how Darshan Singh's Vashna came out of him??
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| For us Rai is King rite now, we will learn more and will come to conclusion ourselves. Moreover sir one more thing if RAI means king guru gobind singh, then i think he was not any king. Rai of Anandpur was king of kahloor as anandpur as under king of kahloor. what you think?
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| words: You know There is no Ashleel word in dictionary of Doctor. For doctor eyes, ear, nose, abdomen, penis and toe all are same. He can discuss all words easily about pregnancy issue to sex related stuff. Our doctor is God and his Bhagats ''mera vaid guru govinda''. in realm of god there is no Ashleel word, tere is no society, but it is difficult to convince anti dasam people. So better we convince ourslef. ''Sab kich ghar mei''
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| Me upload Purakh charitar in few days and you have to find moral, what i will have i will upload.
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| ([[User:Hpt lucky|Lucky]] 19:32, 3 April 2010 (UTC))
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| == Interesting article ==
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| As Sufism is being attacked in Yemen, Somalia, ect., this story on Bhutto is worth reading. http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/columnists/nadeem-f-paracha-the-passion-for-bhutto-440 /AW
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| == Sikh Pilgrim Special ==
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| Over 1,000 Sikh pilgrims arrive in Pakistan
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| http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/news/pakistan/metropolitan/03-over-1000-sikh-pilgrims-arrive-in-pakistan-ss-16
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| Thought this might fit in on current news, [[User:Allenwalla|Allenwalla]] 15:20, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
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| I wish all of you a wonderful Baisakhi.
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| [[File:Sikh pilgrims 608 AFP.jpg|800px|thumb|left|ndian Sikh pilgrims wave after boarding a train for Pakistan at a railway station in Amritsar on April 11, 2010. – AFP]]
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| ==Sat Sri Akal Veer Ji==
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| How are you hope everything is fine. My internet was not working since friday, actually at home i have internet connection of reliance and their connection frquently got disconnect. Yesterday and day before it was not working at all.
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| I am happy that this is first website which is actually giving gurmat interpretations of dasam granth. Even you are finding TATT of Kalki avtar, i am behind you sir go on,,,,
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| Sir i was working on Baudh Avtar. I contacted gurmukhs and asked about this Avtar, they said me to read it carefully when i read it, i found it actually points not only to Siddarth Gautam Buddha but it is pointing to all those are preaching the TRUE god's message. If you are finding truth and you get JANAM PADARATH, you too are Baudh Avtar.
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| as i said before GUru Gobind Singh have changed whole Hindu Dictionary to Gurmat Dictionary so we have to apply Gurmat Dictionary on DASAM Bani, we could not apply Brahmin's dictionary on it. Kindly read the article and if any problem then please discuss and do the required corrections and additions.[[Incarnation 23]]
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| I will study Kalki avtar but after studying MACH, KACH etc avtars. Mach is not any FISH as in hindus and KACH is not any tortoise, these all are GUrmat words and only gurmat dictionary will give it's meaning.
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| I am giving all lines from Adi granth and Dasam Granth too to support views. GUru Granth Sahib says ""SODHE SIMRIT SHASHTAR SAGAL". Here in dasam granth GUru Gobind SIngh actually done it thoroughly, he cleaned Markandya Purana, Bhagwad Purana, Shiv Purana etc and gave esssence of these purans by applying gurmat methodology on them.
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| i was thinking why Hindu Kings were so against GUru Gobind Singh, this might be one of reasons like he says in 33 swaiyey in dasam bani:: "KAHE KO PAHAN(stone) POJAT HAI PASHU(Animal)'' PAHAN MEI PAREMSAR NAHI...
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| Dasam Granth Index: Sir you have put Brahm Avtar and Rudra Avtar under 24 Avtar, i think these are seperate banis??
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| read Chandi Charitar Ukat(i) Bilas, the first 10 lines will give you clear information about CHANDI.
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| will see kalki avtar soon. Take care
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| ([[User:Hpt lucky|Lucky]] 18:02, 11 April 2010 (UTC))
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| == Another story ==
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| http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/news/pakistan/metropolitan/03-over-1000-sikh-pilgrims-arrive-in-pakistan-ss-16
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| Once across the border it looks like the visa app is quite a wait. [[User:Allenwalla|Allenwalla]] 14:32, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
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| ==Sat Sri Akal==
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| ki haal e?
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| Veer ji i was studying Guru Granth Sahib, people use to question about previous Incarnation of Guru Gobind Singh. I found some information about Guru Arjun Dev:
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| ਚਾਰਿ ਕੰਟ ਦਹ ਦਿਸਿ ਭਰਮਿਓ ਤਿਸ ਬਿਨ ਅਵਰ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥<br>
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| I wandered around the four corners of the world and in the ten directions, but I saw nothing except Him.
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| ਬੇਦ ਪਰਾਨ ਸਿਮਰਿਤਿ ਸਨੇ ਬਹ ਬਿਧਿ ਕਰਉ ਬੀਚਾਰ ॥<br>
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| I listened to the Vedas, the Puraanas and the Simritees, and I pondered over them in so many ways.
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| The above i feel is not this incarnation of Guru, as history records say that Guru Arjun Dev never read vedas moreover they haven't gone in all directions. Guru Ji also said:
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| ਗਉੜੀ ਗਆਰੇਰੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥<br>
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| Gauree Gwaarayree, Fifth Mehl:
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| ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਭਝ ਕੀਟ ਪਤੰਗਾ ॥<br>
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| In so many incarnations, you were a worm and an insect;
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| ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਗਜ ਮੀਨ ਕਰੰਗਾ ॥<br>
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| in so many incarnations, you were an elephant, a fish and a deer.
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| ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਪੰਖੀ ਸਰਪ ਹੋਇਓ ॥<br>
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| In so many incarnations, you were a bird and a snake.
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| ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਹੈਵਰ ਬਰਿਖ ਜੋਇਓ ॥੧॥<br>
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| In so many incarnations, you were yoked as an ox and a horse. ||1||
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| ਮਿਲ ਜਗਦੀਸ ਮਿਲਨ ਕੀ ਬਰੀਆ ॥<br>
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| Meet the Lord of the Universe - now is the time to meet Him.
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| ਚਿਰੰਕਾਲ ਇਹ ਦੇਹ ਸੰਜਰੀਆ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥<br>
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| After so very long, this human body was fashioned for you. ||1||Pause||
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| ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਸੈਲ ਗਿਰਿ ਕਰਿਆ ॥<br>
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| In so many incarnations, you were rocks and mountains;
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| ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਗਰਭ ਹਿਰਿ ਖਰਿਆ ॥<br>
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| in so many incarnations, you were aborted in the womb;
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| ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਸਾਖ ਕਰਿ ਉਪਾਇਆ ॥<br>
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| in so many incarnations, you developed branches and leaves;
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| ਲਖ ਚਉਰਾਸੀਹ ਜੋਨਿ ਭਰਮਾਇਆ ॥੨॥<br>
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| you wandered through 8.4 million incarnations. ||2||
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| ਸਾਧਸੰਗਿ ਭਇਓ ਜਨਮ ਪਰਾਪਤਿ ॥<br>
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| Through the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, you obtained this human life.
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| ਕਰਿ ਸੇਵਾ ਭਜ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਗਰਮਤਿ ॥<br>
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| Do seva - selfless service; follow the Guru's Teachings, and vibrate the Lord's Name, Har, Har.
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| ਤਿਆਗਿ ਮਾਨ ਝੂਠ ਅਭਿਮਾਨ ॥<br>
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| Abandon pride, falsehood and arrogance.
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| ਜੀਵਤ ਮਰਹਿ ਦਰਗਹ ਪਰਵਾਨ ॥੩॥<br>
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| Remain dead while yet alive, and you shall be welcomed in the Court of the Lord. ||3||
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| ਜੋ ਕਿਛ ਹੋਆ ਸ ਤਝ ਤੇ ਹੋਗ ॥<br>
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| Whatever has been, and whatever shall be, comes from You, Lord.
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| ਅਵਰ ਨ ਦੂਜਾ ਕਰਣੈ ਜੋਗ ॥<br>
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| No one else can do anything at all.
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| ਤਾ ਮਿਲੀਝ ਜਾ ਲੈਹਿ ਮਿਲਾਇ ॥<br>
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| We are united with You, when You unite us with Yourself.
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| ਕਹ ਨਾਨਕ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਗਣ ਗਾਇ ॥੪॥੩॥੭੨॥<br>
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| Says Nanak, sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord, Har, Har. ||4||3||72||
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| If you will read in punjabi you will find the Guru Sahib is telling about himself, in english translation writer just wrote word (YOU), but these words ਹੋਇਓ ॥, ਜੋਇਓ ॥੧॥, ਕਰਿਆ ॥ etc. are used when person is telling about himself. Here Guru Arjun Dev ji is telling that he faced transmigration and took many form and in this birth he is able to attain god.
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| Ehde te veechar karo, because this salok is not pointing toward anyone(you or me) but here he is telling about himself. VEECHAR PESH KARO ([[User:Hpt lucky|Lucky]] 21:52, 14 April 2010 (UTC))
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| == ("humanity towards others") ==
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| Sardar ji, we were reading of a new calf. vegetarian restaurant called ubutu, today mera wife came across a reference to an operating system. We had not heard the word before, wondering what it meant we looked it up.
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| Here are a few links - possibly of marginal interest - Ubuntu reminding me of sarbat da bhala.
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| http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_(operating_system)
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| http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_(philosophy)
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| http://www.2010travelinfo.com/index.php/2010-info/sa-slang / this is an interesting vocabulary - a veritable masala of differing languages- > definition of '''ubuntu''' - Southern African humanist philosophy that holds as its central tenet that a person is a person through other persons. (See box on the right above.)
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| This reminded me of the - it takes a village.
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| Rab Rakha, aw
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| from one page - Meaning
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| [[Archbishop]] [[Desmond Tutu]] offered a longer definition in a 1999 book:<ref>{{cite book | last = Tutu | first = Desmond | authorlink = Desmond Tutu | title = No Future Without Forgiveness | publisher = Image | date = 1999 | isbn = 0-385-49690-7 }}</ref>
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| {{quote|A person with Ubuntu is open and available to others, affirming of others, does not feel threatened that others are able and good, for he or she has a proper self-assurance that comes from knowing that he or she belongs in a greater whole and is diminished when others are humiliated or diminished, when others are tortured or oppressed.}}
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| [[Archbishop]] [[Desmond Tutu]] further explained Ubuntu in 2008:
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| {{quote|One of the sayings in our country is Ubuntu - the essence of being human. Ubuntu speaks particularly about the fact that you can't exist as a human being in isolation. It speaks about our interconnectedness. You can't be human all by yourself, and when you have this quality - Ubuntu - you are known for your generosity.
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| We think of ourselves far too frequently as just individuals, separated from one another, whereas you are connected and what you do affects the whole world. When you do well, it spreads out; it is for the whole of humanity.}}
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| This may, of course, remind you of Sikhi
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| == Re. questions over Langar at Golden Temple page ==
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| I made some edits to the article - but
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| "Loh langar tapde rahin" (may the hot plates of the langar remain ever in service).
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| This translation makes one think that hot plates (little electric cookers I used in my dorm room at college) are used to cook the meals in the Harmandar Sahib Langar. With the little Punjabi I can read - I would translate this - May the iron (cauldons) of the Langar always be hot (cooking food) or (in service).
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| Also the first part of the sentence below is confusing:
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| Aashima Seth Captured on film Belgian filmmakers, Valerie Berteau and Philippe Witjes were so impressed with the langar at the Darbar Sahib that they made a documentary film on it.
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| However, the part below makes sense.
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| Belgian filmmakers, Valerie Berteau and Philippe Witjes were so impressed with the langar at the Darbar Sahib that they made a documentary film on it.
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| Hope this makes sense.
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| [[User:Allenwalla|Allenwalla]] 02:41, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
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| == hot plates ==
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| http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGif4PWNFMc
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| I remember the huge griddles now, as seen in the above video, but even griddles here are only 2x4 ft at most. Maybe = may the iron plates of the Langar always be hot. They seem to be at least 4x5 feet.
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| or use the translation as is - adding - actually the hot plates of the langar are iron sheets over 4 x 5 ft in size - they are so large that a man is has to sit at each size to flip the (chapattis)?
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| I don't know the metric measurements.
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| [[User:Allenwalla|Allenwalla]] 01:17, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
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| ==Sat Sri Akal==
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| Kee haal hai veer ji kimey chal reha hai sabh?
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| i have added more details in [[Charitar 16]], incl. controversial part. People say it's related to Guru Gobind Singh but no where in charitar it's written, kindly check article and add necessory additions and correct gramattical mistakes. Once we complete with an article i want you to kindly protect this article. i am quoting few Guru Granth Sahib's lines which will be more supportable.
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| ([[User:Hpt lucky|Lucky]] 17:59, 22 April 2010 (UTC))
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| Guru de kirpa-da naal, sabe chardikala-ch vaas raah-han. I have made a start on the article but due to a wedding of a relation this weekend, I will have to finish this in the next few days. The article looks very good; you have done a most excellent work on this; congratulations and well done.
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| It must be one of the best articles on this Bani. I hope many will read and learn from the clear message given by the Guru - how to be stubborn about following the path of Dharam and not to be weak and submit to our passions!
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| Veer ji, real dedication by you to create the graphics and spend many many hours on refining the article; I think this will become a landmark article of the series. Many thanks and kind regards, Guru ang sang rava,
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| ** Thanks Veer ji, it's with help of Gurmat, and your help in creating article. My next project is the controversial one i.e Charitar 21, i have read the charitar many times. Many many many Gurmat teachings came out of it, philosphically. but historically, as you know all anti dasam relate it with gobind singh ji.
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| What do you think is this charitar related to Guru Gobind Singh own life? Please read all facts before replying.(Anandpur, Naina Devi ,Bank of Satluj, Sikh Shakha) etc. It's but confusing search is on. ([[User:Hpt lucky|Lucky]] 16:09, 24 April 2010 (UTC))
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| Sardar ji, Please check changes to page on Harbinder Singh Rana; by Jangbeer Singh. I wonder if he would advocate a set of sandwich boards for Mr. Singh Rana to wear about daily. thanks aw
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| == further research ==
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| ==re. new message ==
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| Sardar ji, Please check changes to page on Harbinder Singh Rana; by Jangbeer Singh. I wonder if he would advocate a set of sandwich boards for Mr. Singh Rana to wear about daily. thanks aw
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| I have moved and altered the above edits. Since this is very old news, I added a new section at bottom titled '''Old News''' and left out the 'salacious' details.
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| Covering a murder trial years ago as a court artist for NBC, I was shocked to see how many people showed up in the court room, just to hear the sexual contents recited. It seems to me that we forgive people for murder but sex crimes would still earn a big Scarlet letter across a forehead (usually a woman's) if some people had their way.
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| Seeing the details added again, I took the time to see who had started this. As we know jangbir can be a real or takhallus name. So looking back to 2002 the Sikh Secretariat was mentioned, their website seems to be gone, but a Dabinderjit Singh seemed to be in charge and was listed as the spokesman in the old news stories.
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| Looking up that name, starts one down a sticky road. [http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard-mayor/article-23479477-kens-adviser-is-linked-to-terror-group.do] if one is to believe this story it seems that glorifying terrorist murder is ok, but Mr. Rana's crime is another thing. Now I will have to find out how it was ok to blow up an air liner - who did it and why.
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| Gur Fateh, Rab Rakha, [[User:Allenwalla|Allenwalla]] 17:03, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
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| == Thanks ==
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| Since it seemed this would be added repeatedly - i added the section OLD NEWS and put it at the end, i prefer your solution - you could also delete the two pages I added as I could find little on the man who raised the issue in 2002 and the organization seems to be defunct.
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| Rab Rakha, - aw
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| ==Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh==
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| Respected Sir,
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| I have uploaded some text from Dasam Granth. I think you confused it with Chaubis Avtar. It's not from Chaubis avtar but Brahma Avtar, which is different bani and is not part of Chaubis Avtar. There are three Avtaars description in Dasam Granth - Chobis Avtar(24), Brahma Avtar(7) and Rudra Avtar(2). Kindly Revert back those. If we will keep topic name as -> incarnation 1, incarnation 2 and so on, then it would be a confusion, it would be bettwe if we keep title of Avtar as topic name like '''ath Brahma avtar Shukra kathan''' or related to it like shukracharya or shukra etc. May god bless you. ([[User:Thegreateditor|Editor]] 16:03, 28 April 2010 (UTC))
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| == Bowing? ==
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| Respect:
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| Bhai Sahib, in a sign of respect (for my age and the fact that I knew something about his religion, a Muslim friend always bows when greeting me. No matter how often I protest he always calls me Sir (never using my name). Here in the states such courtesy is seen also by kids who have been raised in a military family or served in the army, ect. I tip my head a bit to almost everyone i meet, for I know that they move, breath, smile or frown because they are animated by Wahiguru.
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| The greeting Namaste, Namascar carry the word bow in their spelling. The word namaaz does the same. People from India and Africa (especially Japan, Korea and China) tend to do a little bow or tip of the head when they greet others. Only once have I had people reach in the direction of my feet (as seen in Bollywood films (when young folks greet elders), but I know this is respect that people give to elders, ect.
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| When I read the first 'recent change' this morning on waking to the article on [[Bhai Mohinder Singh]] I was bothered. A new section has been added saying that he has people bow to him in 'another room'. This implies that he actually has (tells) people to do this. I do not know the Sardar, other than by what I read on these pages, however I doubt that he would do such a thing. I can imagine that folks treat him the way I mentioned (with a courteous tip of the head in respect for his age and the way he has lived his life.)
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| I find the edit offensive and my first thought is to delete it, but that is not something I do.
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| [[User:Allenwalla|Allenwalla]] 12:03, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
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| now I'm off to the garden, the garden I tend for my mother, my father's old garden.
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| It seems a blog would be a better place for criticism, who is Gurmeet Kaur Rai, what does it matter that she didn't like the re-gilding on the Harmandar Sahib, I suppose there were people who criticized Mahraja Ranjit Singh and Hari Sing Nalwa for adding the gold in the first place.
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| Sorry for all the criticism, well at least I found out a little about Bibi Gurmeet Kaur Rai.
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| ==Sat Sri Akal==
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| Sir ji kee haal?
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| gurmat da parchar aap ji de shahr vich kiddan hai?? othey sikhan da kee haal hai, gurbani naal jurhey ne ke Triya(Budhi) charitran vich uljhey paye ne??
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| veer ji eh mai [[Charitar 49]], article create kita hai and according to my JAALI mind i have picked some aspects out of charitar. I want you to kindly read the charitar and extract more positivity out of it.
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| one of my friend commented on our work he said "HANS NE TAAN MOTI CHUG E LAINA E". We are interpreting Charitropakhyan in light of gurmat and picking those things for what it was written and rejecting those which are not acepted in gurmat. These triya charitars are world, everyday we read in news paper about charitars of various minds(man and woman) and many matches with triya charitar too.
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| bhul chuk maaf
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| ([[User:Hpt lucky|Lucky]] 18:37, 30 April 2010 (UTC))
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| == What is the truth, can it be known ==
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| cc. to: Sardar Hari Singh ji and Sardar Harpreet Singh ji,
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| We now have at least two articles claiming the sons of Guru Gobind Singh ji were mothered by two different women, this is very confusing - people take written words as truth. Both articles cannot be right.
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| I am now very confused and i am sure such statements confuse many others. It seems to me we need to preface such articles with - a statement - this is what (I, we or whomever believes and why.
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| If the truth cannot be known, it seems best to state there are differing opinions.
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| [[User:Allenwalla|Allenwalla]] 23:15, 30 April 2010 (UTC)
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| [[Mata Jito]] vs. [[Mata Sunder Kaur]]
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| perhaps I am the only one confused by this?
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| == interesting report ==
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| Sardar ji, - something interesting http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/editorial/19-religious-freedom-250-hh-09
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| this was listed as an editorial page on Dawn News, the photo is also eye catching.
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| [[File:Sikhs-608.jpg]]
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| Also I will try to sort out the articles and add statement re. opposing opinions.
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| Can Message boards at Gurdwaras or what people claim, be relied on for truth? I have seen boards, or references to what the boards say claiming this is the Gurdwara where Guru Tegh Bahadur received word of his new son's - birth - from three different Gurdwaras.
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| The Gurdwaras that displayed the photo of an Afghan general to be a photo of Ranjit Singh and Hari Singh Nalwa also come to mind. [[User:Allenwalla|Allenwalla]] 14:00, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
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| == Puzzling behavior ==
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| Sardar ji, I restored the page on Guru Nanak Nishkam Sewak Jatha, which was first decreased (bit by bit) then blanked out by [[Satbachan]] - no reason given.
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| Surely I thought this must be a mistake, but apparently not.
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| May I suggest that the photo of the Ragi carrying the SGGS also mention the Granth/Guru as well, if that is what is being carried?
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| Rab Rakha, [[User:Allenwalla|Allenwalla]] 01:36, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
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| == Gurfathe Hari Singh Ji ==
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| Sir, First of all let me apologise for the lateness in my reply to the message you sent me,next time i will hopefully reply to you asap.
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| No offence was taken by anything that you had written, it is my good fortune that a person of your caliber is there to guide me through my contributions, so please if and when i do make a mistake please remind me, i will be very greatfull to you.
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| Sir, isn't it true that unless we have all the pro's and con's about the articals that are written we can never get the full picture of the concerned person or event, because only the sggs is the true source, other books are prone to mistakes that the connected writer has written.
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| And sir, can there be a section in this site that presents a different version of the same subject as to who has written what about the artical concerned so that the reader can judge for him or her self as what other writers have written about the subject.
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| Sir Thank you
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| Very kind regards
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| Tarlochan Singh Kular--[[User:Kular65|Kular65]] 07:05, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
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| == help needed ==
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| Sardar ji, Hari Singh - how do I make a {{Citation needed}} without the word template showing up as well. Since anyone can log on and do mischief - its quite remarkable that in 3 or 4 years I can remember only a few cases of this being done or am I being an 'optimist'?
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| Regards, [[User:Allenwalla|Allenwalla]] 15:55, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
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| ==Sat Sri Akal Sir==
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| Rabb d kirpa naal sab thik hai.
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| Check this section [[User:BachitarNatak/Confusions_Resolver]]. Put any quesry related to bachitar natak or query which put by anti dasam elemets to misguide sikhs.
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| ([[User:Hpt lucky|Lucky]] 19:04, 4 May 2010 (UTC))
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| == A warning ==
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| Bhai Sahib ji,
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| Warning: This file may contain malicious code, by executing it your system may be compromised.
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| The above message is in the page (or link) added by [[Gurvinder2007]] , "File:BABA BANDA SINGH BAHADUR.doc
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| from where (and why) does such a message show up. Is this my system protecting me?
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| If this is not your Baileywick, just ignore.
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| [[User:Allenwalla|Allenwalla]] 03:26, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
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| ==sat sri akal==
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| sir i think we should start an article called bachitara natak confusion reolver, but we have to save that article from anti dasam party as they will attack such artcles. what do you think?
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| ([[User:Hpt lucky|Lucky]] 09:28, 9 May 2010 (UTC))
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| ==A Question on Bachitar Natak==
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| Sir as i was asked by someone, i want to share it with you as i shared this thought with many. A question is Why Bachitar Natak an Autobiography? What makes it an Autobiography? autobiography is person is narrating events and exposing himself in that narration but in Bachitar Natak Guru Gobind Singh ji talked very less about him.
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| In First 5 Chapters, Guru Gobind Singh is telling about God, Raghu Kul, 9 Nanak's before....in sixth chapter Guru Gobind Singh explained his spiritual life in Sachkhand(Ab mai apni katha and akal purakh bach, even in that he explained God's command to him). After that he explained his birth in 2 - 3 lines then he explained Battle Bhangani(and about himself he spoke 2 - 3 lines), then he explained other battles(and spoke 2 - 3 lines about himself) and then expedition of khanzada where also he spoke 2 - 3 lines about himself then the natak ends with praise of god.
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| This Natak contains some events and he explained few events of life, and purpose of explanation was to tell people how to fight Dharam Yudh for truth and righteousness. Autobiography is a big term and i feel you should analyze it and find more appropriate term which can define subject well.
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| Autobiography is A biography of yourself....but where guru sahib have given very very less about himself. kindly share your views
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| ([[User:Hpt lucky|Lucky]] 19:26, 14 May 2010 (UTC))
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| ==yes right==
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| It does not impact on bachitar natak itself. Though i was just saying you to find some more appropriate word(in english), because it's semi autobiographical, not purely autobiography. It do relates to him, but not purely.
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| Want to share in Computers we use term ''Object Oriented Languages'' those are oriented around object(a concept, in computers), but not fully. Those languages which are fully dependent on object we call them ''Purely Object Oriented Languages''.
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| The whole Gurbani and Interpretations are described in words, but if words does not fully support topic it's called ''Kacha or Kachi''. like, All Banis in universe which are related to God/gurmat are Pakki banis and those which are not related to god or which have no nearness to Gurmat is kachi bani, because words can't describe subject fully. if you write a poem in praise of god and if supports gurmat fully then it's Pakki Bani. So my intent was to give Pakka Shabad. Nothing personal
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| baki hor sunao kiddan chalda sabh?([[User:Hpt lucky|Lucky]] 18:45, 15 May 2010 (UTC))
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| == Does Sikhism believes in Supernatural Powers???? ==
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| Dear Hari Singh ji,
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| Thanks for your analysis. I resepct your faith and beliefs.
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| It is not that I dont believe in supernatural powers of GOD, He is capable of anything.
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| But I just wanted to clarify that our Guru ji were Human Beings with devine knowledge and They have lebeled all these powers as lowly and useless on our way to realise one GOD.
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| Please Go through first 10 references highlighted in your provided link.
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| [http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Search&Param=english Reference to Supernatural Powers in SGGS]
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| '''Approach I followed: To Go through the complete sahabd and understand the underlying theme being conveyed.'''
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| Please correct me if I have misinterpretted any Shabad wrongly. I would be more than happy to see things from your perspective.
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| 1. '''ਸਭਿ ਨਿਧਾਨ ਦਸ ਅਸਟ ਸਿਧਾਨ ਠਾਕਰ ਕਰ ਤਲ ਧਰਿਆ ॥ Page 10, Line 13 '''
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| <pre>
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| Gurbani is saying that GOD has all the powers be it natural or supernatural,
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| If we go through the whole shabad of the above pankti, the theme explains capabilities
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| of GOD not a human being.
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| </pre>
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| 2. '''Page 17, Line 6 ਨਾਉ ਸਦਾਝ ਆਪਣਾ ਹੋਵੈ ਸਿਧ ਸਮਾਰ ॥'''
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| <pre>
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| If we go through the complete shabad, Guru ji is saying if one practices all the rituals,
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| even adopt a lofty name and be known to posess supernatural spiritual powers...even so,
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| if you are not accepted in the court of the lord, then all this adoration is false.
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| </pre>
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| 3.'''Page 26, Line 18 ਤਿਨਾ ਪਿਛੈ ਰਿਧਿ ਸਿਧਿ ਫਿਰੈ ਓਨਾ ਤਿਲ ਨ ਤਮਾਇ ॥੪॥'''
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| <pre>
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| If we go through the complete shabad, it higlights that Those who focus their conscious
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| on ONE GOD, wealth, treasures and supernatural powers are nothing for them, and
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| they do not care for such things
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| at all.
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| Wahtever pleases God's Will comes to pass (ie. only that thing happens). Nothing else can be done.
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| In the last line Guru Nanak Requests to GOD, "Servant Nanak lives by chanting the Naam. O Lord,
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| please give it (ie. NAAM ) to me, in Your Natural Way"
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| Please read the last line of this shabad which epmasises on "Natural Way" of GOD's realization.
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| </pre>
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| 4.'''Page 91, Line 11 ਅਠਾਰਹ ਸਿਧੀ ਪਿਛੈ ਲਗੀਆ ਫਿਰਨਿ ਨਿਜ ਘਰਿ ਵਸੈ ਨਿਜ ਥਾਇ ॥'''
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| <pre>
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| In this shabad (whole shabad) Guru ji is saying that on realisation of GOD, I am in a state that
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| all the treasures and all so called supernatural powers posses no value for me rather
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| I dwell in my own home, within my own self, I am lovingly absorbed in LORD.
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| </pre>
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| 5.'''Page 101, Line 5 ਨਿਧਿ ਸਿਧਿ ਰਿਧਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਮੇਰੈ ॥'''
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| <pre>
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| Guru ji is saying..My GOD is everything for me...For me he is the nine treasures,
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| the supernatural spiritual powers of the Siddhas, wealth and prosperity.
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| Please go through the complete shabad.
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| </pre>
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| 6.'''Page 225, Line 12 ਸਿਧ ਕਹਾਵਉ ਰਿਧਿ ਸਿਧਿ ਬਲਾਵਉ ॥'''
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| <pre>
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| Theme of the complete Shabad is that even if person may be called a man of spiritual perfection
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| and he may summon riches and supernatural powers, but without the LORD of the universe,
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| Truth cant be found.
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| </pre>
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| 7. '''Page 390, Line 3 ਜਾ ਕੀ ਸੇਵਾ ਦਸ ਅਸਟ ਸਿਧਾਈ ॥ '''
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| <pre>
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| Guru ji is saying Worship that ONE GOD, Even the eighteen supernatural powers of the sidhas
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| serve him.. one who grasps GOD's feet even for an instant, he does not lack
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| anything i.e. does not wishes for anything else.
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| </pre>
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| 8. '''Page 422, Line 19 ਤੇਤੀਸ ਕਰੋੜੀ ਦਾਸ ਤਮਹਹਾਰੇ ਰਿਧਿ ਸਿਧਿ ਪਰਾਣ ਅਧਾਰੀ ॥'''
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| <pre>
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| Three hundered thrity milion gods and all those people posessing supernatural powers
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| according to Hindu Myths are your (GOD's) servants, you are the support of breath of
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| all these people. i.e. they are nothing without GOD.
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| </pre>
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| 9. '''Page 593, Line 18 ਰਿਧਿ ਸਿਧਿ ਸਭ ਮੋਹ ਹੈ ਨਾਮ ਨ ਵਸੈ ਮਨਿ ਆਇ ॥'''
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| <pre>
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| Guru ji is clarifying that all those Riches and Supernatural powers are nothing
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| but emotional attachements, through them NAME of lord does not come to dwell in
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| the mind.
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| Whereas Serving the Guru, the mind becomes immaculately pure, and the darkness of
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| spiritual
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| ignorance is dispelled
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| </pre>
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| 10. '''Page 642, Line 4 ਜੋਗ ਸਿਧ ਆਸਣ ਚਉਰਾਸੀਹ ਝ ਭੀ ਕਰਿ ਕਰਿ ਰਹਿਆ ॥'''
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| <pre>
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| Theme of the whole shabad is that even of one practices eighty four postures of yoga
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| and acquires the supernatural powers of the sidhas, and even if he gets tired of prcticing
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| all these, he has not met with lord.
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| Guru ji says Singing the Kirtan of the Lord's praises is the highest of all actions.
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| </pre>
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| ===What I wanted to Convey===
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| By removing that reference to Supernatural Powers of Mian Meer and Guru Arjun Dev ji about,
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| visulatization of angles, my only purpose was to convey the message that If our Guru's have not
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| given any value to Supernatural Powers and miracles, Why should we impose it on their history out of ignorance ..
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| No one can confirm if Mian Meer really saw angels or not...It is just human say.
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| We all assume Sikhism to be most logical religion, but then we ourselves contradict Gurmat when representing it to masses out of ignorance.
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| Our religion is suffering from "Chinese Whisper" effect. So we have to device our words in a way that can overcome this deadly effect.
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| Otherwise we all know what " Chinese whisper" effect is capable of.
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| Looking forward to hear from your side
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| Thanks
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| Rupinder Singh
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| ===In response to===
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| '''Explanation about Sikhi and Supernatural Powers'''
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| You say in your comments that you "Removed [the] concept of Supernatural Powers of Mian Meer, and Guru Arjan Dev ji..." as "...It contradicts Gurmat".
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| Khalsa ji, supernatural powers are a reality and the vision that is described by Mian Mir is a possibility as can be seen from Gurbani at the link given below. Bani tells us that supernatural powers do exist and that they are a integral part of nature; Riddha and Siddha are a function of nature just like atomic power or gravity, powers of thought, etc.
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| However to strive or crave for these powers is "anti-Gurmat"; to use these powers for personal advantage is anti-gurmat. Please follow the link to read Gurbani lines containing the word "supernatural".
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| You will recall that Guru Nanak stopped a huge bolder at Panja Sahib in an act to save himself and the sangat from certain death. This is a supernatural act done by a Guru! Not for a personal gain and in self defence but nevertheless a supernatural act in any event.
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| I hope you will agree with my analysis of this issue and the related Gurbani; if not, please do revert back to me on my user talk page. Kind regards and many thanks again, Hari Singhtalk 22:51, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
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