Talk:Hari Singh Nalwa
Dispute
I have reservations on the practice of using the beads as shown in the this image http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php?title=Image:Hari_Singh_Nalwa_1.JPG. I request the contributer of the image to provide some reliable source which can prove the correctness of the practice shown in the image. Otherwise, I request this image should be removed and a more meaningful image should be uploaded.
Cheers!! A. S. Aulakh Talk 20:48, 1 February 2007 (MST)
- Gur savare Aulakh Ji, I appreciate your concern regarding authenticity of an image about any famous sikh personality.The image in question is from Lahore Museum courtsery F.Azizuddin and is very well placed on sikh-heriatge U.k site as well. You can read more from the source site as per link given under:
http://www.sikh-heritage.co.uk/warriors/HariNalwa/HariNalwa.htm
Hope this satisfies your query. In fact we are used to looking at one side of the picture that Sardar Hari singh Nalwa was a great warrior.We forget that ( Warrior-Saint charachter which sikhi very much preaches) warrior saint characters are a living legend in sikhism.In fact this picture has left a deep impression in my mind that all bravery of Sardar hari singh Nalwa ji and baba dip singh ji shahid ji was result of deep mediatation and simran which they used to practice. --Guglani 05:02, 7 February 2007 (MST)
- Veerji, thanks for the reply. My concern was not about the authenticity of the image. An image may be totally authentic but still it may show a person involved in a practice which that person may not have done. I agree with you that these great men from history were deeply religious as well but I have doubts that telling beads is a practice of Sikhism and Hari Singh Nalwa was involved in that. There are numerous quotes in Gurbani which mentions that telling beads is not a practice which does any good. Also, I did not find any reference source where it has been mentioned that Hari Singh Nalwa used to tell beads. When I asked to cite a reference, I was actually requesting to cite a reliable reference from history which specifically talks about practices of Hari Singh Nalwa. As far as muslim artists are concerned, most of them (from the history) considered Sikhs as Hindus (definitely, wrongly!), therefore, their depiction of Sikh historical figures mostly has their imagination of hindu practices. By the time someone can prove that Hari Singh Nalwa used to tell beads, why not use another image from the same site you pointed? Also, please note that I am never against your observation of Hari Singh Nalwa being religious soldier, what I am questioning is that - Did he really used to tell beads? If yes please provide reliable source from history (no paintings please, they are often just imaginations of artists) A. S. Aulakh Talk 02:23, 8 February 2007 (MST)
- Image of Sardar Nalua with one hand on beads and on the other side wearing a full length sword even while in deep meditation posture reflects his warrior -saint personality .Before one proclaims that telling beads is forbidden in sikhism ,one one will have to produce lots of evidence for denouncing this practice and simultaneously defame many religious saints which have carried sikhi forward.--Guglani 20:41, 8 February 2007 (MST)
Is using beads (mala) for simran against Sikhi? (mala phaar-nee)
Respected Guglani ji,
This is an interesting point. I believe that any thing which allows you to constantly remember God is a good thing but at the same time I remember a tuk of Bhagat Kabir where he say why are you showing-off your mala (or something to that effect). I must say that I don't think that using a mala is against Sikhi - I am prepared to be guided - if someone can produce Gurbani to say otherwise. I believe that Gurbani is neutral on this point. If a mala helps you with your simran, then use it. But don't use it as an implement to impress your friends of your new-found toy!
Debate is always good, if we use it to learn - As Sikhs, we should be prepared to listen and learn provided we use Gurbani as our guide rather that the views of other people.
Below are a few links to Gurbani - Tell me what you think?
I agree that one must rely on Gurbani and on Gurmukhs and to challenge them is an impossible task – but lets listen to all the views and then we can make up our mind. Let's be open to discussion and not be completely intransigent in our attitude. I never think that I know everything! There are always new things to learn and sometimes you can from a small child or even an animal - lets keep an open mind and hope we will learn something useful from this discussion! I will do some research and come back to you. I suggest that we discuss the topic here as it is more central rather than on individual talk pages.
Kind regards, Hari Singh 21:51, 8 February 2007 (MST)
