Talk:Supernatural Powers
Explanation about Sikhi and Supernatural Powers
You say in your comments that you "Removed [the] concept of Supernatural Powers of Mian Meer, and Guru Arjan Dev ji..." as "...It contradicts Gurmat".
Khalsa ji, supernatural powers are a reality and the vision that is described by Mian Mir is a possibility as can be seen from Gurbani at the link given below. Bani tells us that supernatural powers do exist and that they are a integral part of nature; Riddha and Siddha are a function of nature just like atomic power or gravity, powers of thought, etc. However to strive or crave for these powers is "anti-Gurmat"; to use these powers for personal advantage is anti-gurmat. Please follow the link to read Gurbani lines containing the word "supernatural".
You will recall that Guru Nanak stopped a huge bolder at Panja Sahib in an act to save himself and the sangat from certain death. This is a supernatural act done by a Guru! Not for a personal gain and in self defence but nevertheless a supernatural act in any event. I hope you will agree with my analysis of this issue and the related Gurbani; if not, please do revert back to me on my user talk page. Kind regards and many thanks again, Hari Singh 22:51, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
Does Sikhism believes in Supernatural Powers????
Dear Hari Singh ji,
Thanks for your analysis. I respect your faith and beliefs.
It is not that I don't believe in supernatural powers of GOD, He is capable of anything.
But I just wanted to clarify that our Guru ji were Human Beings with divine knowledge and They have labelled all these powers as lowly and useless on our way to realise one GOD.
Please Go through first 10 references highlighted in your provided link.
Reference to Supernatural Powers in SGGS
Approach I followed: To Go through the complete shabd and understand the underlying theme being conveyed.
Please correct me if I have misinterpreted any Shabad wrongly. I would be more than happy to see things from your perspective.
1. ਸਭਿ ਨਿਧਾਨ ਦਸ ਅਸਟ ਸਿਧਾਨ ਠਾਕਰ ਕਰ ਤਲ ਧਰਿਆ ॥ All the nine treasures, and the eighteen supernatural powers are held by our Lord and Master in the Palm of His Hand. Page 10, Line 13
Gurbani is saying that GOD has all the powers be it natural or supernatural, If we go through the whole shabad of the above [[pankti]], the theme explains capabilities of GOD not a human being.
2. ਨਾਉ ਸਦਾਝ ਆਪਣਾ ਹੋਵੈ ਸਿਧ ਸਮਾਰ ॥ you may adopt a lofty name, and be known to have supernatural spiritual powers - Page 17, Line 6
If we go through the complete shabad, Guru ji is saying if one practices all the rituals, even adopt a lofty name and be known to possess supernatural spiritual powers...even so, if you are not accepted in the court of the lord, then all this adoration is false.
3.ਹਰਿ ਹਾਰ ਕੰਠਿ ਜਿਨੀ ਪਹਿਰਿਆ ਗਰ ਚਰਣੀ ਚਿਤ ਲਾਇ ॥ ਤਿਨਾ ਪਿਛੈ ਰਿਧਿ ਸਿਧਿ ਫਿਰੈ ਓਨਾ ਤਿਲ ਨ ਤਮਾਇ ॥੪॥ Those who wear the Necklace of the Lord around their necks, and focus their consciousness on the Guru's Feet - wealth and supernatural spiritual powers follow them, but they do not care for such things at all. ||4|| Page 26, Line 18
If we go through the complete shabad, it highlights that Those who focus their conscious on ONE GOD, wealth, treasures and supernatural powers are nothing for them, and they do not care for such things at all. Whatever pleases God's Will comes to pass (ie. only that thing happens). Nothing else can be done. In the last line Guru Nanak Requests to GOD, "Servant Nanak lives by chanting the Naam. O Lord, please give it (ie. NAAM ) to me, in Your Natural Way" Please read the last line of this shabad which emphasises on "Natural Way" of GOD's realization.
4.ਅਠਾਰਹ ਸਿਧੀ ਪਿਛੈ ਲਗੀਆ ਫਿਰਨਿ ਨਿਜ ਘਰਿ ਵਸੈ ਨਿਜ ਥਾਇ ॥ The Siddhis-the eighteen supernatural spiritual powers-follow in my footsteps; I dwell in my own home, within my own self. Page 91, Line 11
In this shabad (whole shabad) Guru ji is saying that on realisation of GOD, I am in a state that all the treasures and all so called supernatural powers posses no value for me rather I dwell in my own home, within my own self, I am lovingly absorbed in LORD.
5.ਨਿਧਿ ਸਿਧਿ ਰਿਧਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਮੇਰੈ ॥ My Lord, Har, Har, Har, is the nine treasures, the supernatural spiritual powers of the Siddhas, wealth and prosperity. Page 101, Line 5
Guru ji is saying..My GOD is everything for me...For me he is the nine treasures, the supernatural spiritual powers of the Siddhas, wealth and prosperity. Please go through the complete shabad.
6.ਸਿਧ ਕਹਾਵਉ ਰਿਧਿ ਸਿਧਿ ਬਲਾਵਉ ॥ He may be called a Siddha, a man of spiritual perfection, and he may summon riches and supernatural powers; Page 225, Line 12
Theme of the complete Shabad is that even if person may be called a man of spiritual perfection and he may summon riches and supernatural powers, but without the LORD of the universe, Truth cant be found.
7. ਜਾ ਕੀ ਸੇਵਾ ਦਸ ਅਸਟ ਸਿਧਾਈ ॥ One who is served by the eighteen supernatural powers of the Siddhas - Page 390, Line 3
Guru ji is saying Worship that ONE GOD, Even the eighteen supernatural powers of the sidhas serve him.. one who grasps GOD's feet even for an instant, he does not lack anything i.e. does not wishes for anything else.
8. ਤੇਤੀਸ ਕਰੋੜੀ ਦਾਸ ਤਮਹਹਾਰੇ ਰਿਧਿ ਸਿਧਿ ਪਰਾਣ ਅਧਾਰੀ ॥ Three hundred thirty million gods are Your servants. You bestow wealth, and the supernatural powers of the Siddhas; You are the Support of the breath of life. Page 422, Line 19
Three hundred thirty million gods and all those people possessing supernatural powers according to Hindu Myths are your (GOD's) servants, you are the support of breath of all these people. i.e. they are nothing without GOD.
9. ਰਿਧਿ ਸਿਧਿ ਸਭ ਮੋਹ ਹੈ ਨਾਮ ਨ ਵਸੈ ਮਨਿ ਆਇ ॥ Riches and the supernatural spiritual powers of the Siddhas are all emotional attachments; through them, the Naam, the Name of the Lord, does not come to dwell in the mind. Page 593, Line 18
Guru ji is clarifying that all those Riches and Supernatural powers are nothing but emotional attachments, through them NAME of lord does not come to dwell in the mind. Whereas Serving the Guru, the mind becomes immaculately pure, and the darkness of spiritual ignorance is dispelled
10. ਜੋਗ ਸਿਧ ਆਸਣ ਚਉਰਾਸੀਹ ਝ ਭੀ ਕਰਿ ਕਰਿ ਰਹਿਆ ॥ He practices the eighty-four postures of Yoga, and acquires the supernatural powers of the Siddhas, but he gets tired of practicing these. Page 642, Line 4
Theme of the whole shabad is that even of one practices eighty four postures of yoga and acquires the supernatural powers of the sidhas, and even if he gets tired of practising all these, he has not met with lord. Guru ji says Singing the Kirtan of the Lord's praises is the highest of all actions.
What I wanted to Convey
By removing that reference to Supernatural Powers of Mian Meer and Guru Arjun Dev ji about, visulatization of angels, my only purpose was to convey the message that If our Guru's have not given any value to Supernatural Powers and miracles, Why should we impose it on their history out of ignorance ..
No one can confirm if Mian Meer really saw angels or not...It is just human say.
We all assume Sikhism to be most logical religion, but then we ourselves contradict Gurmat when representing it to masses out of ignorance.
Our religion is suffering from "Chinese Whisper" effect. So we have to device our words in a way that can overcome this deadly effect.
Otherwise we all know what " Chinese whisper" effect is capable of.
Looking forward to hear from your side
Thanks
Rupinder Singh
Reply to the above
Bhai Sahib ji,
Many thanks for such a lot of work in preparing your very considered reply; I have transferred the whole discussion here as it is more relevant to the article here.
I agree that Sikhi is a very logical faith and that we do not follow meaningless rituals or logic. However, Bhai sahib that does not mean that we can restrict the issues to just what we understand or can see or visualise ourselves. One has to accept that there may be ideas and realities that some of us cannot understand or "see" but which may exist.
Just as an example, I could say to you that "a footballer is capable of scoring a goal by bending the ball from about 25 yards past 10 players" - You may say that you do not believe this statement. I could then show you a video of someone achieving this goal. Our perception of the world is linked to our experiences; there may be more to learn about the world then we know today. If I said in 1800 that man will be able to produce an atom bomb which could destroy a whole town - no one who have believed me. So some of the things that we may say today may not sound believable but they may be true.
Bhai sahib, as Sikhs we follow the Guru Granth Sahib; this tells us that supernatural powers do exist. I agree with you that the Guru does not give these any spiritual significance but they nevertheless do exist. This is clearly demonstrated in the meeting of Guru Nanak with the Siddhas when they tried their supernatural power on the Guru!
So as Sikhs we do not give these powers any significance but we must acknowledge that they do exist; to deny them would be anti-Gurmat. I will compare them to another concept which is very similar - ghosts.
Gurbani says that ghosts are a reality - However I have not seen a ghost and I am incapable of showing one to you. So how do we deal with this issue. Do we deny ghosts just because we cannot demonstrate their existence in a scientific way or do we believe/deny Gurbani or what?
Raab Rakha, Hari Singhtalk 22:50, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
