User talk:Allenwalla/backup4

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Punjabi words

Bhai sahib ji, Guru dee fateh

Thanks for the kind words; I am sure you will do an excellent job on the Papaji story - I found it very touching and it would be great to capture that effect!

Parupkari is an important word to a Sikh - a pivotal word like the phrase "sarbat dah bhala" unfortunately I have not had a lot of time to work on the article on this word but it refers to a quality of "doing good" to a stranger; to anyone and everyone. Please let me know if this makes sense.

The second word is a little more difficult to decipher - if it is "Tea-kana" ਟਿਕਾਨਾ s  then it means "place of settlement" which seems to fit in with the use. Let me know if this agrees with the use of the word in the sentence otherwise I will have to look a little deeper! Kind regards, Hari Singhtalk 01:26, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

PS: Bhai sahib, I have backed-up your talk page. I hope this was Ok for me to do, Hari Singhtalk 01:30, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Daroli Bhai

Thank you Bhaaji for your message and guidance. I do hope to keep contributing as much as i can. Regarding daroli bhai , I added more info to the page. I do have some distant contacts in the village and I hope to get some pics from my younger brother of gurudwaras soon as he is a avid photographer and then i will add on the page. Meanwhile i will try to add more info regarding other uncommon topics related to Sikhs and in my knowledge. patti kamaal in my understanding means street kamaal, but will consult some senior and edit the info to my best knowledge in the coming days.



Gurdwara Chatti Padshahi Rajouri

Bhai sahib ji,

Yes, there appears to be a duplication here. The best thing is to combine the articles into one and put a redirect from the other page to the one article.

Important summary gathered:

  • Rajouri District is in Jammu & Kashmir state
  • The word Bangla refers to the original building which was possibly a bungalow or "haveli" as in the famous Delhi Gurdwara called Bangla Sahib
  • I have asked Sarbjeet for help with the word "Chatti" as I cannot see how this relates to 6

Kind regards, Hari Singhtalk 09:48, 6 February 2010 (UTC)


Richard Sir,

You are right the word chatti denotes sixth and it is used for the sixth Guru and Jammu Kashmir' s famous and historical Gurdwara Sahib at Kashmir is also named as Gurdwara Chatti Patshahi,Kathi Darwaja,Rainwari,Srinagar. The Bangla is used for big building or fort. pl combine both the articles of Rajouri Gurdwara.

--user:sarbjeet_1313me 12:29, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

ssa sir,

kindly tell the words which are confusing you.

--user:sarbjeet_1313me 04:07, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Sir i m also new to the words , i will try my best to find the real meaning. Thanx

--user:sarbjeet_1313me 12:09, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Haan Ji Sir

Sir, Actually Scholars are those people which study for their benifit. Now how they are benifitted you know that. Of course their publications are benifit for people too. But scholars insert their own Matt in it.

Someone who is studying Guru Granth Sahib, he have to be Gurmukh, not Scholar. He have to learn from guru Granth Sahib not study guru granth sahib but study from guru granth sahib. But Scholar people have their views, which are worldly not spiritually. These scholars have destroyed sikhi with HINDU meanings and their own meanings. They have made various books which are against fundamentals of sikhism. so if you want to be Gurmukh:

Study GUru Granth Sahib yourself, Guru Granth Sahib is Mahankosh of itself, we do not need mahankosh of any scholar. so scholars destroyed sikhi(by giving us vaars, and other granths suraj parkash ,dabistan etc), is destroying(against dasam and sarabloh) and will destroy in future too.

a person who have no work to do become Gurmat scholar and put his mentality in it. So if you want to be Sikh first become follower of guru granth sahib.

Do you know the whole english translations of guru granth sahib available on net is not appropriate, but something is better then nothing so accepted. Guru Granth Sahib's each word contain something.

Firt become follower then scholar, but what we people do we become scholar first and dont know about follower

classes are going very well, and everything is fine. what about you rab rakha (Lucky 12:51, 8 February 2010 (UTC))


I can't find the exact translation but I am wondering if it is related to one of these shabads or perhaps a combination of a line or two from several shabads? Please see "a few shabads about God". As the original line in Gurmukhi is not quoted and the translation is the writers own, it makes the exercise a little difficult.

Regards, Hari Singhtalk 18:02, 9 February 2010 (UTC)


Bhai sahib ji,

It was no trouble going through Gurbani as every time you look for things, you discover many new and interesting poniters; so in fact, it was a pleasure. Now, when the line:

siqgurpRswid ] bRhmu dIsY bRhmu suxIAY eyku vKwxIAY ] Awqm pswrw krxhwrw pRB ibnw nhI jwxIAY ] (pMnw 846)

is put through a correct font converter (Gurbani Akhar to unicode) it produces:

ਸਤਿਗ੝ਰ ਪ੝ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥ ਬ੝ਰਹਮ੝ ਦੀਸੈ ਬ੝ਰਹਮ੝ ਸ੝ਣੀਝ ਝਕ੝ ਵਖਾਣੀਝ ॥ ਆਤਮ ਪਸਾਰਾ ਕਰਣਹਾਰਾ ਪ੝ਰਭ ਬਿਨਾ ਨਹੀ ਜਾਣੀਝ ॥ (ਪੰਨਾ ੮੪੬)

which says page (or rather paNa) 846 and that gets us to the shabad that you have already found. Translating Gurbani is a very personal thing and many meanings can be derived; its a little like poetry. One can do a word by word translation but it sometimes does not convey the message in the original lines; so the translation given on the site is a translation of the meaning conveyed by the original lines rather than a literal translation of the words.


Behold the Supreme everywhere,
Hear the Supreme in all, Discourse on One and one alone.
The Supreme Being has manifested itself in all.
The Supreme alone is the creator.
Know not other than the Supreme. (page 846)


ਜੋਤੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਰਲੀ ਸੰਪੂਰਨ੝ ਥੀਆ ਰਾਮ ॥
Joṯī joṯ ralī sampūran thī▫ĝ rĝm.
One's light blends with the Light, and one becomes totally perfect.
ਬ੝ਰਹਮ੝ ਦੀਸੈ ਬ੝ਰਹਮ੝ ਸ੝ਣੀਝ ਝਕ੝ ਝਕ੝ ਵਖਾਣੀਝ ॥
Barahm ḝīsai barahm suṇī▫ai ek ek vakẖĝṇī▫ai.
I see God, hear God, and speak of the One and only God.
ਆਤਮ ਪਸਾਰਾ ਕਰਣਹਾਰਾ ਪ੝ਰਭ ਬਿਨਾ ਨਹੀ ਜਾਣੀਝ ॥
Āṯam pasĝrĝ karaṇhĝrĝ parabẖ binĝ nahī jĝṇī▫ai.
The soul is the Creator of the expanse of creation. Without God, I know no other at all.
ਆਪਿ ਕਰਤਾ ਆਪਿ ਭ੝ਗਤਾ ਆਪਿ ਕਾਰਣ੝ ਕੀਆ ॥
Āp karṯĝ ĝp bẖugṯĝ ĝp kĝraṇ kī▫ĝ.
He Himself is the Creator, and He Himself is the Enjoyer. He created the Creation.
ਬਿਨਵੰਤਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਸੇਈ ਜਾਣਹਿ ਜਿਨ੝ਹ੝ਹੀ ਹਰਿ ਰਸ੝ ਪੀਆ ॥੪॥੨॥
Binvanṯ Nĝnak se▫ī jĝṇėh jinĥī har ras pī▫ĝ. ||4||2||
Prays Nanak, they alone know this, who drink in the subtle essence of the Lord. ||4||2|| (page 846)

Interesting story about Kaadi! Kind regards, Hari Singhtalk 01:58, 10 February 2010 (UTC)


Bhai sahib ji,

Certainly if you were visiting these Punjabi sites with the old ascii Punjabi fonts then you would need to make sure that the correct font file had been added to your computer; and there are many different types of these fonts - not all compatible with each other. The huge array of these files is one of the reasons why someone decided to incorporate all the popular languages into the unicode system. You still have font files but at least with unicode the character will display even if it is not in the correct font style- at least you can read the characters!

You can find a few of these font files here and here if you ever need to use them.

Regards, Hari Singhtalk 19:02, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

South Asian Games and more

Bhai sahib ji,

  • Fallen47 sorted!
  • I will have a scan of the South Asian Games and see if it reveals anything interesting linked to Sikhi.

As a senior contributor to SikhiWiki, you are exempt from these kinds of messages that I put up from time to time; in this case the message only applies to users who have been changing the page almost on a daily basis; I did not look at the history but we need to make sure that our coverage, as you say, does justice of our Gurus. Changing the content on a constant basis in a significant way daily does not seem too sensible to me. We need to keep away from politics and try and home into the powerhouse provided by the glorious history of the distant past. As you say, we need to understand that the image of the Gurus is what we project in the end!

Bhai sahib, as you are devoted to making the articles more readable and easier to understand, these restrictions do not apply to you. I have noticed that many others here have recognised this noble function that you perform and have, not surprisingly called for your assistance.

'Guru Hari Krishna' appears odd; I don't think this is due to OCR; more a mis-understanding. It surprises me when the name Hari Krisha is used instead of Har Krishan. Kind regards, Hari Singhtalk 23:02, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Gurbani and women

Bhai Sahib ji,

Thanks for the link - Burqa ban: What's the fuss, ask Indian Muslims. - Interesting coverage.

The quotes in the article Gurbani and women are from an eBook by G.S.Sidhu M.A called "Sikh Religion and Women". In preparation for the article which will have mainly quotes from Gurbani I started doing a cut and paste to Sikhiwiki. It will need more work but I thought I had make a start. I listed the link below (its the first one) to help with the development of this article.

Links to some interesting ebooks on the web:

It was interesting reading this book yesterday and having looked at the article at SikhiWiki on 'Women', I thought we need to add to this area with quotes from Gurbani. I decided to look for work by other authors when I came across this book. Another one is also listed although I have not had a look at this.

Regards, Hari Singhtalk 16:21, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Gobindgharh fort

Bhai sahib ji,

Obviously this line is incorrect; I think what may have been implied is shutting the "door" or north-western route frequently used by previous invaders into India. As you say the Khyber pass is hundreds of miles away! Please make the necessary changes as this is clearly incorrect. Many thanks and kind regards, Hari Singhtalk 22:34, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Where did Guru Tegh Bahadar get the news?

Bhai sahib ji, Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh

In fact there may be more than two Gurdwaras that make this claim; So in addition to the two that you highlighted, I have found another:

Bhai sahib, it may be better to say something like this:

It is known that the ninth Sikh Guru, Guru Tegh Bahadur was on a mission to the east of Patna in present-day region of Bihar/Assam/Bangladesh when he got the news of the birth of Gobind Rai; where exactly he first received this news is disputed as several Gurdwaras claim to the location in question.

We can then research this more and modify the above. Or we could do a new article just to cover the issue if we do not find a specific location and discover that the fact is not properly covered in the historical texts.

Regards, Hari Singhtalk 07:38, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Vivekananda and Ramakrishna on Sikhism

Bhai sahib ji

I assume you meant the article page and not the discussion page. I have read the article and find no real appeal in the writing as it fails to quote the two scholars directly or give any convincing evidence; as you say it appears to give little details but is very liberal at levelling criticism on these two folks. I think we need to improve it with better research or delete it; I remember that Vivekananda said some good things about the Sikh Gurus - see .

Please, Bhai sahib, as a senior editor and contributor to SikhiWiki, you have authority to decide which way to go and I will support you either way. We cannot have half baked articles that are critical about non-Sikhs without solid proof and good reason - both of these things appear to be lacking here.

If you feel that we can remove the negative aspects from the text then please keep the page otherwise mark it for deletion and I shall take care of it. Perhaps we can visit this later when we are better equipped with real facts. The text seems to have come from here - .

The third option is to mark the article as needing attention and then we can revisit it at a later date. Please let me know how you feel about this. Kind regards, Hari Singhtalk 00:49, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

Innocent Sikh killed in Orakzai

Bhai sahib ji,

Thanks for posting this sad news by such barbaric and heartless people. What is surprising is the line "A letter, found with the body, warned his relatives and other Sikh locals against disclosing the case to the media" which shows the intimidation which is being showers on these innocent people of the region. These evil terrorist thugs will have to pay for their heinous crimes here or in the next world; preferably here.

I am sure this type of situation has been faced by many Sikhs before - and the plight of Santa Singh mentioned in 'Freedom at Midnight' has been and is being repeated again and again - the fight between good and evil is almost as old as humanity.

Most grateful to you bring us the latest on the situation in Pakistan relating to Sikhs - be it good, bad or indifferent - although the news is sad, it is better to know than to live in ignorance. Kind regards, Hari Singhtalk 21:12, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

A need for a policy in naming - Shri, Siri shree

Bhai sahib,

Good idea; we will need to draft a policy on naming and include it somewhere where newcomers can see readily. I am sure Wikipedia have a policy on these things but we may need to modify it for our needs. I will try and get to the bottom of this soon. In the meantime we have a template of the message which we can put on the user talk page and which can be enhance as we move forward.

A very warm welcome from SikhiWiki and many thanks for your contributions so far. Please note that adding extra superlatives like Shri or ji or Maharaj, etc to the names of the Sikh Gurus and other Sikh sacred words on this website presents a problem with the Wiki system. When one adds these to existing articles, it can make the page unworkable and may break its link to other pages and images in the system. Please do not add such extra words to existing articles.

Also, we need to keep the names simple so that newcomers can learn them more quickly and it is easier when searches are carried out on the system. It is easier to find Guru Nanak instead of Maharaj Shri Guru Nanak Dev ji or was it Shri Guru Nanak Dev ji or Siri Guru Nanak Dev or was it Maharaj Guru Nanak ji or Guru Nanak Dev ji, etc.

We should all have the utmost respect for our Gurus in our hearts and our minds; by just adding more and more words of honour does not necessarily mean that we will have even more respect for them. We should all show the best respect for our Gurus by following their Gurbani in your own hearts and in your lives.

Sorry to have to bring this policy of SikhiWiki to your attention on your first visit as a contributor; please do not let this deter you. I hope you will keep visiting this website and that you will help us enhance it by checking it, amending it, by adding to it, by discussing issues on the discussion pages, etc. Please feel free to add to or amend any of the topics that you have knowledge about. Don't worry about making mistakes, as these can be easily corrected.

Many thanks again and kind regards, Hari Singhtalk 06:50, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Work Load

Sir, ssa ji, getting less time for net due to work load. Thnx

Courage: Does it need support from a drug?

Bhai sahib ji,

Many thanks for the links; I was surprised about the violence in relation to Rahim Singh; I, wrongly assumed that this saga had been resolved - The politics in Punjab is beyond my comprehension.

Turning to the point about Bhang, I agree that the article appears to give its use an unjustified semi-positive image and that this could project the wrong message. Clearly, Gurbani has spoken against its use and despite the Nihang claim that this helps them in battle, its use in peace time is clearly a blatant violation of Gurmat (not that it would be justified in war time either).

I will tackle this in the near future as the message of Gurbani is very clear on both fronts - regarding the source of courage for a Sikh ready to enter battle at any time and the blatant misuse of such a harmful substance. There is no reason why a Sikh of the Guru should indulge in such a gut-less habit of taking intoxication to operate on the path of righteousness.

I hope this is the track that you were pointing towards; please let me know if I have "read" the pointers correctly. As always, many thanks and may the Lord bless you, your family and assist you all every second of your life. Love to you all, Hari Singhtalk 20:13, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the link/ Sikh history

Thanks Bhai sahib ji for the link - that indeed is very good news. May the Lord drive some sense into these lunatic talibanis.

Partition 1947: Appears that there is a category called: Category:Partition 1947. I have files those two article under this category. I have seen a lot of activity in this field lately so hopefully someone is collecting all the information. However, Bhai sahib I don't think that any of this information is going to make mankind any wiser. Man has been engaged in so many wars; so much human blood has seeped into the Earth through man to man combat still we carry on. Reading about all the previous wars, we still have the same attitude; real love for all of mankind just does not enter into our hearts! When will we evolve onto a high plane?

Sikh history: I agree that films about Sikh history would help a better understanding but unfortunately this is going to take sometime; we need a bold director and producer with a vision. Imagine what an impact a film about the life of Guru Gobind Singh would have on the world! I am sure the right person will come! I hope it is in my lifetime! Would love to see the movie! Kind regards, Hari Singhtalk 02:13, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Cleric issues anti-terror fatwa

Bhai sahib ji,

Excellent link: - It is refreshing to see someone from mainstream Muslim faith stand for the true face of their religion; how great would it be if more Muslim leaders did the same. Then the fascist would clearly know that they were acting against their own faith.

User name: It is not always easy but as you know, most newcomers would have a Sikh name and when you see non-sense letters like jsdds or ludiid or asdasd, etc then its time to press X. Also, Bhai sahib, I am sometimes aggressive with the X as if it is a genuine user, he or she would email and object to the ban. But I know that a few of these will still get through. Utter madness trying to advertise their silly product on this site! The word 'Ahmadsfryez' did not make any sense - I hope we made the right choice!

Snow: Gosh we had the most severe winter for 30 years I think - I have never seen so much snow in the UK. Its OK for a few days when it is fresh; soon it becomes a bind, especially when it turns into slippery ice! Enjoy it while it lasts!

Violence: I think there is a tendency these days to turn to anger and violence at the first opportunity; people have very short fuses. The lessons of tolerance and variability of views is not been learnt. Your story in the final paragraph of the message highlights this so admirably; making a mountain out of a molehill! This culture of blame has become a wall between better understanding of the different communities; suspicion and mistrust grow while dialogue and cohesion fall away; a sure recipe for communal eruption.

Guru mahar karan, Hari Singhtalk 23:03, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Copyright material

Bhai sahib ji,

You are right; we cannot copy complete articles unless it is a site like wikipedia which like Sikhiwiki operates a "Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License". If the site does not operate CCA license then we can only quote bits from the site for review purposes or under the fair-use rules.

Most Wikis operate a free or public domain policy and so we can copy from those sites - it is common and a good habit to acknowledge the source of any article when it is copied in total. I don't think any of these free sites like wikipedia would complain.

When copying Sikhi articles please make sure they comply with Gurbani. I have found a few articles where they completely ignore the principles outlined in Gurbani. This is a very marginal situation but I only mention it here for completeness; I have used wikis for some of my articles here - so please carry on.

Regards, Hari Singhtalk 02:31, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

ImpartialReviewOnlineSportsBooksCasino barred

Bhai sahib ji,

The above has been barred as per your message - clearly an unsuitable name. Many thanks and kind regards, Hari Singhtalk 11:58, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Seeking advise

Bhai Sahib ji,

You guessed right twice - First, I had just seen the second part of the message and missed the first bit. Sorry about that. And secondly, about the new active contributors; it great to see much more contribution taking place. I hope we keep getting this help as it will enhance the site and hopefully encourage more people to read and learn about the peaceful message of the Gurus.

I have read the article now and I think we should include it as it highlights the false propaganda that these groups use. Unfortunately these groups do exist and they continue to promote their warped messages and it is best to know about them so that we can tackle them head-on.

As you say, if we know about them we can ask the authorities to deal with them; if they remain unknown there will be less action against them.

Also, it is amazing when these groups say things like: "The Seal of Messengers, Prophet Mohammad (saw) said that at the lowest level of Paradise each person will have up to 10,000 servants!" It appears that in God's Paradise there is discrimination - 10,000 servants for one person! Their "God" will make "their Muslim saint" who was blown up by his own bomb have 10,000 servants! Where is fairness in this understanding?

And this second line is even more stupid: "Remember, on the Day of Judgment, no religion will be accepted from Allah except Islam." Why? Does that mean that before 700AD before there were any Muslims, for millions of years everyone went to hell! Utter rubbish!

Unfortunately, I have seen such trash before but it is best to tackle it rather than ignore it. In the same article, under a separate section, we should counter some of the points that they make against Sikhi - then it will be balanced. Thanks for bringing it to me attention; I will work on it soon. Kind regards, Hari Singhtalk 18:05, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

  • It's nice to see that you are contributing in article and correcting mistakes.
  • You are very right he was Bhagat Prahlada acc. to Guru Granth Sahib and Dasam Granth too.
  • I live in India From where you belong?
  • The pic which you uploaded is related to Hindu Mythology. Hindu people used to make such images which are baseless(even acc. to their own granths). I want to give you example of Chandi in Dasam Granth:
  • Hindus make pic of Chandi, but Guru Gobind Singh clearly mentioned that Chandi is Abhek(no form).
  • Hindus made pic of Kheer Ganga on which vishnu is sitting on some platform but Gurmat is totally opposite to it.

Even photos of Gurus which you have seen keep no significance, its just an imagination.

The pic you have uploaded gives impression that Narsingha was some Man-lion like Lion man of the Hohlenstein Stadel who killed Deamon king, quite illogical pic and imagination of painter is good but spiritual knowledge of Painter is not too good.

Do you think a Sikh websites should have such images which not satisfies gurmat?? (Editor 11:24, 9 March 2010 (UTC))


If i will make picture Guru Gobind Singh sitting on SNAKE, will it be accepted? if i will make picture Muhammad in Punjab, Jesus in Delhi having party with Sher Shah Suri! zorothustra with william cambell??i think these ideas are amazing but out of context. I just wanted to mention that Imagination behind that image is illogical(acc. to gurmat). I am planning for making a logical image of it which must show something. It would be appreciated if you make image of those 5 great messages which you gave after reading Prahlad story.

Guru ji mentioned this tale because it is related to Gurmat.

I suppose there are Sikhs who think that everyone should wear only white, eat only food cooked by other Sikhs and not associate with anyone other than a Sikh.

Just want to contribute some Gurmat Views, Sikh = Khalsa does not have any dress code. You can be a very good khalsa in Jeans/shirt but Khalsa Fauj(fauj=army) need dress. An Indian does not required special dress but Indian army requires the same. The Khande Bate di Pahul is way to change Bana and to join into Khalsa Fauj. Food should be hygienic and cooked in hygienic way by cook and he/she can be any.

There might be some who think Sikhs should study only study the Guru Granth Sahib and avoid hanging pictures of Guru Nanak on the wall (any pictures at all).

Sikh believe in study, after studying Guru Granth Sahib he can continue with Dasam, Sarabloh, vedas, Quran, Bible, etc, if he want to. What is need of hanging picture of Guru Nanak? it is better to hang messages from holy books which a person read daily and walk on it

These imaginary Sikhs might not allow televisions in their homes and would prefer to never see liquor and tobbaco being sold in a store.

Those might be foolish people.

They would certainly object to the picture of Nara Singha or maybe any picture being on any page, but what I love, among many other things about Indian culture and Panjabi culture in particular is the love of colour it 'rangs' a chord in my heart.

Nar Singha image is illogical. Other images seems to logical but some images like GUru Nanak with beads as we know all Gurus rejected it, guru nanak flying in air etc etc. Every thing has a logic, if you will potray me with Abrahim Lincon, it will be fun but quite illogical concept.

So NarSIngha acc. to Gurmat is different, and i think you know all that..

I think I have seen many paintings that included Hindu imagery in the paintings of the Gurdwara of Baba Atal - no one has whitewashed them though they might have been painted during the time of the mahants, where ever they were they surprised me - my menory is not what it used to be.

Very right thats why our Singhs are not able to preach sikhi, because we are materialistic rather than spiritual. Ranjit Singh fixed Gold over amritsar and ragis sing shabad in gold covered gurdwara sahib but their is NO VEECHAR(thoughts) on gurbani. Without Veechar one cannot become a sikh. Quote of Gur Granth -> (Gur Sikhya Gur Shabad Vichar)


One thing is right it Enriches the page, and for that i am thinking of not removing it but to explain the image. i was thinking of affixing that image prior but then i thought of making new which shows Sikh philosphy. For that i am going in deep of whole stories tale(in light of gurmat) .

Hope you understand. I am from Haryana. (Editor 17:06, 9 March 2010 (UTC))

Reply Again

I totally agree with those 5 massages and this what we call Gurmat. I am not saying to paint them i am saying to put them in image through photoshop. Don't know much about Islam and Christianity, jus know in brief.

Sir User: Lucky is staying in Chandigarh, and i think you should contact him, he can better guide you about Chandigarh and Amritsar. I am messaging him he will contact you on sikhiwiki. About J & K user: Sarabjit is there. When will you come to india?

Just giving you a brief info, From Chandigarh you can take a Volvo, cost jus rs 250 per person then from Amritsar bus stop, you can take rickshaw, just for Rs 20, you can stay in Guru Arjun Dev Niwas in Golden temple complex, as they have arrangement for foreign tourists. you can take food in Gurdwara Kitchen or in hotels around complex. Then you can take deluxe bus from amritsar to j&k. I do not know nything about J & K. (Editor 12:57, 10 March 2010 (UTC))

Balanced Image and Guru-maa

Bhai Sahib ji,

Thanks for both the messages. Image - can't understand the reason for the computer problem you had - I normally use the free version of (and Gimp for more serious work) and I cannot recall any issues with the image file. I do sometimes have problem when I update images and do not save the file in the same format as the original - Sikhiwiki refuses to update the image unless the file extensions are the same. I am not sure if you actually got that far. Hopefully it is a passing phase and the system will behave with other image files.

I spotted the missing top of the halo but unfortunately did not spot the Guru leaning back! Correcting that is a slightly bigger challenge as that part of the image will need to be rotated. I noticed that the file is a jpg file - If it helps, would you like me to save this as a Gif file also?

GuruMaa - Thanks for the addition; I listened to her at the 2004 Inter-faith gathering in Barcelona - She works across Hinduism and Sikhism when addressing her sangat; interesting approach and obviously covering an area which is not normally approached by many spiritual leaders. Useful information which I was not previously familiar with. Kind regards, Hari Singhtalk 21:40, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

Link to wikipedia

Bhai sahib ji

Various "tools" are available both "official" and "home-made".

Official: To link to any wikipedia article just put the word "wikipedia:" before the word in hyperlink double brackets:

(1) To refer to the article Hindu at Wikipedia you would type [[Wikipedia:Hindu]]. 
However this looks odd as the whole of the phrase will show in the text. See below:


(2) To overcome this you need to type this: [[Wikipedia:Hindu|Hindu]]. 
This looks better as only the word Hindu or whatever you enter after the "|" will actually display - See below:


(3) Sikhiwiki has a shorthand for this rather long format (home-made remedy). 
Instead of: [[Wikipedia:Hindu|Hindu]] just type {{w|Hindu}}. This does that same this as (2)


End of lesson 1- Do you need more? Regards, Hari Singhtalk 00:17, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Article of interest

Bidar - Amazing article! Similarities to Delhi 84 but without a Gandhi? It highlights the inherent wickedness of the local majority and their behaviour against the innocent Sikh students. Many thanks, Hari Singhtalk 00:52, 16 March 2010 (UTC)


Bhai Sahib ji

I have modified the box as it covered a large area to just a "banner" by using (free program). I think this will do for now. I will re-jig this later so that we can add something like {{no edits please}} to get the same result. However, I hope this will do for now.

I know your feeling regarding "training your spell-checker" - mine is still learning- but a great tool. We need a quick online grammar checker now! Many thanks, Hari Singhtalk 18:28, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

Baba Buddha ji

bhai sahib ji Sat Sri Akal

Some of the old Punjabi history books are riddled with these types of saying and stories which really are not necessary these days. The gist of the matter is that Baba Buddha ji or Bhai Buddha ji displayed an inclination toward wisdom at an early age which the Guru recognised. The Guru obviously was very perceptive to the moral and spiritual state of a person and I am sure that Guru ji nicknamed him "Buddha ji" instead of calling him "Bura" which depending on the pronunciation can mean "bad" in Punjabi; I think the Guru would probably not call him "bura" in an event preferring to enhance people rather than denigrate them.

I do not have a book to hand at the moment but I will try and find some online source. A small start here - See if you can use any of this? Again it is in the "old style" and may not be suitable.

Online Text

The Guru initiated the practice of singing hymns in the end of the night. A boy seven years of age used to come to listen and stand behind him. When the singing was over, he used quietly to ,depart. One day the Guru ordered his servants to detain the boy in order to discover the object of his continual attendance. He was accordingly brought before the Guru, who asked him, 'O boy, why comest thou so early in the morning to listen to hymns? This is the time of life for thee to eat, play, and sleep.' The boy replied, 'Sir, one day my mother bade me light the fire. When I put on the wood, I observed that the little sticks burned first and afterwards the big ones. From that me I have been afraid of early death. It is very doubtful whether we shall live to be old, and so I attend thy religious gatherings.' The Guru was much pleased on hearing this wisdom from the child's lips, and said he spoke like an old man (budha). On that occasion the Guru composed the following:--

In the briny unfathomable ocean the fish did not recognize the net.[1] Why did the very clever and beautiful fish have so much confidence? It was caught through its own doing; death cannot be averted, O my brethren; know that in like manner death hangeth over your heads. Man is like the fish upon which the net falleth unawares. The whole world is bound by death; without the Guru death cannot be destroyed. They who are imbued with the True One, and have abandoned worthless mammon, are saved. I am a sacrifice unto those who are found true at the gate of the True One. Death is like the hawk among the birds, or the huntsman with the noose in his hands. They whom the Guru preserved have been saved all others have been entrapped by the bait. They who possess not God's name shall be rejected no one will assist them. God is the truest of the true, and His place is the truest of the true. They who obey the True One meditate on Him in their hearts. Even the perverse who obtain divine knowledge under the Guru's instruction are pure. Make supplication to the true Guru to unite thee with the Friend. When man meeteth the Friend he obtaineth happiness, and the myrmidons of death poison themselves.

[1. The worldly man does not remember death.]

{p. 135}

I abide in the Name, and the Name abideth in my heart. Without the Guru all is darkness; without the Word nothing can be known. By the Guru's instruction light shineth, and man continueth to love the True One. Death entereth not where the soul's light is blended with God's. Thou, O God, art the Friend; Thou art wise; it is Thou who unitest men with Thee. Under the Guru's instruction, O man, praise Him who hath, no end or limit. Death entereth not where there is the incomparable Word of the Guru. By God's order all sentient beings were produced; by God's order they perform their functions. By God's order they are in the power of death; by God's order they are absorbed in the True One. Nanak, what pleaseth God shall happen; there is nothing whatever in the power of His creatures.[1]

The boy to whom the above hymn was addressed was subsequently known as Bhai Budha on account of the complimentary expression of the Guru. He was held in such high estimation that he was commissioned to confer the tilaks or patches of Guruship on the first five successors of Guru Nanak.


The Guru was born in 1469 while Bhai Budha was born in 1506 - a difference of 37 years. In 1524, the Guru would have been 55 while Bhai Budha was 18 years old. We know that the Guru was based in Kartarpur in the latter part of his life; so this all seems to stack-up. Calling a person of 18, "Bhai Buddha ji" is possible as in rural India in the 1500s there was much respect for elders - so it is not a thing to worry about. However, calling a person of 8 or 9 "Bhai Buddha" does not seem possible and I would try and avoid putting this in the article. It may have started as a nickname instead of "Bura ji" and then developed to Bhai Buddha ji and then on to Baba Buddha ji.

I think that the "Bhai Buddha" then changed to "Baba Buddha" during the time of the 6th Guru - Guru Hargobind.

Kind regards, Hari Singhtalk 21:15, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Baba buddha sahib

Bhai sahib ji: Above has been redirected to the enhanced main Baba Buddha article - many thanks for the enhancements and the merging - I know how much time consuming this can be. Excellent work!

Yes, it was very common to give a baby a nickname while the offical name from the elders came later. Even now in rural setting where they do not have a local Gurdwara, the same pattern exists. So the child has a nickname used by all close friends and relations while the name in the school register will be something different. No, I think the custom must have been the same during Baba Buddha's era and yes the name "Bura" sounds like a 'nick' name which became predominate and so we do not have any record of the "real name". 'Buddha' then took over being the blessing of Guru Nanak - wouldn't we all like to have been named by such a saintly person! Baba ji will be remembered for centuries due to the connection with the founder Guru. Bhai sahib, Rabb Rakha, Hari Singhtalk 00:16, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

Unfortunately - With the name, Davinder Singh Yadav it is very likely to be a Sikh

Bhai sahib ji,

What a shame! When thousands around you are unable to feed themselves properly how can you indulge in such excesses? $8000 for the chopper and about $5000 for the rest of the wedding. The mind boggles are such ego-centric behaviour. Many thanks for that link. I may use it for an article later. Revelling in your riches and intoxicated with youth, you waste your life uselessly. Kind regards, Hari Singhtalk 02:49, 20 March 2010 (UTC)


I have gone to Hemkunt twice. First time i went upto Ghat, by sumo then, i continued on Horse to hemkunt(inc. one night stay at gobind dham(13 KM from ghat) and 6 km journey further). Second time i traveled whole route by foot, cool and cloudy, foggy rainy, clouds passed touching body. I have pictures of mine, but i have to digitize those, so i picked pics from random websites. Have you ever gone to Hemkunt? My aim was to travel in mountains, gurdwara was just a pretence.

bhul Chuk Maaf (Editor 15:21, 21 March 2010 (UTC))

Sajjan Kumar & Wikipedia on the Harmandar Sahib

Bhai Sahib ji

Sajjan Kumar: It is great news that at last some movement has taken place regarding such dreadful crimes against innocent Sikhs. However, for me this is a case of "too little too late"; it shows the true state of nation. There is very little "real" justice and the consequences are there for all to see. I am afraid that the debt owed to the Sikh Gurus will never be repaid by this nation; the sacrifices made by Guru Tegh Bahadur and Guru Gobind Singh for the liberty of this nation from the crutches of the Mughals is wasted on this generation! The national leaders are without any real values or merits and are wasting their lives fighting each other; where can such leaders steer this once great nation?

Wikipedia: I afraid this is another site that I try and keep away from as the ground rules are "the one who shouts the loudest wins" - there is little coverage of "minority" issues as it is dominated by "western lunee geeks" who think that "America was 'discovered' by Columbus" - the fact that many thousands on natives lived there has no influence on these geeks - their brains have been hard-wired and they have little real ability to think afresh.

I have tried to reason with them on numerous occasions and in the end to save my sanity I have decided not to contribute to the site and engage in stupid arguments. I suggest that you do the minimum on that site as it will only lead to unnecessary harassment and suffering - and for what! In the end, most Sikhs or people interested in Sikhi will end up here on SikhiWiki. Let us just work on making this a better place!

I am sorry to give rather negative replies to both these topics; I hope it does not disappoint you too much. My kind regards as always; may the Lord bless you and your family, Hari Singhtalk 01:36, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

Interesting news item and other things...

Bhai sahib ji,

Pakistan: Many thanks for your message again; no, I had not read this one and had it not been for you, many others relating to the situation of Sikhs in India and Pakistan. I am most grateful to you as I know it is not easy to find these stories; much surfing and reading is needs to get to such detailed articles of such relevance - I have linked this one to the news on the mainpage.

Kumar: Bhai sahib, I agree that the Kumar development is good news; lets pray that justice is done so that the world can see that crime does not and should not go unpunished. Also as they say, better late than never!

Everyone and the Guru: Bhai sahib, you put it really well - the Guru showed no vengeance or hatred and the letter was an attempt to right a gross wrong by bringing the facts to the attention of the Mughal leader; unfortunately, he did not grasp the situation and his end overtook him; had he taken the Guru's advice head on; perhaps the course of history may have changed and this Mughal would not have been given the label of another Islamic fanatic and would have joined the likes of Mian Mir who enlightened the name of Islam in this world.

Many thanks again for your continuous support and keen eye for interesting stories relating to Sikhi. Regards, Hari Singhtalk 13:26, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

videos and classical music

Bhai Sahib ji,

I enjoyed the video stories very much; both highlight interesting aspects of life and the changes which are overtaking us. The news article was a little too technical for me as although I have a little understanding of classical music, raags and taals - I think this went into a bit too much technical detail. However, I enjoyed your choice and it was nice watching and reading. Many thanks for helping me keep abreast of happenings in India and Pakistan. Kind regards to you both; may the Lord's blessings be with you. Rabb Rakha, Hari Singhtalk 04:11, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

Bhai Sahib ji, Yes, beautiful picture and interesting article about Bhagat Singh - didn't know he choose the bullet and not the rope. Thanks again. Hari Singhtalk 03:52, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Please, can you help?

Bhai Sahib ji,

Hope all is well; have not seen you at the village pump lately.

I was wondering if I could "pick your brain" on two words that I am looking for as I am a little disturbed by the translation of a tuk - line from Guru Granth Sahib. The line is "ਜੋਰਾ ਦਾ ਆਖਿਆ ਪ੝ਰਖ ਕਮਾਵਦੇ ਸੇ ਅਪਵਿਤ ਅਮੇਧ ਖਲਾ ॥ or Jorĝ ḝĝ ĝkẖi▫ĝ purakẖ kamĝvḝe se apviṯ ameḝẖ kẖalĝ." (SGGS p 304) which is officially" translated as "Those men who act according to the orders of women are impure, filthy and foolish" - this is not correct for various reasons. I will breakdown the Gurmukhi to try and explain my reasons.

Gurmukhi Pronunciation Meaning translation/comment
ਜੋਰਾ s  jora is a reference to a dominating women who enslaves men. There is a saying in Punjabi "ਜੋਰੂ ਇਸਤ੝ਰੀ ਦਾ" "joru istaree dah" which loosely means "slave of the wife" women - is not quite right. should be something like dominant, possessive, over-powering. See below. 1. please can you suggest other words?
ਦਾ dah of ok
ਆਖਿਆ akhia requested ok
ਪ੝ਰਖ purakh men ok
ਕਮਾਵਦੇ kamavdea to earn; See below also 2. Any suggestion here also?
ਸੇ say they ok
ਅਪਵਿਤ apvit impure ok
ਅਮੇਧ amedh foolish ok
ਖਲਾ khala standing ok

1. The problem is with 2 words the first word is "jora" which refers to certain type of women - I cannot see a similarity in western cultures; but it is a woman who uses tact and psychology to dominate men; the Punjabi saying "ਜੋਰੂ s  ਇਸਤ੝ਰੀ ਦਾ" "joru istaree dah" which loosely means "slave of the wife" captures this concept; also the word means "power" and conveys an aspect of compulsion due to use of emotional or other power. I wonder if you have any suggest for such a person. The word "joru" and "jora" have a linkage. The word "joru" although used for women can also refer to men.

2. The second word is perhaps a little easier ਕਮਾਵਦੇ s  or "kamavdea" which means "to earn" also gain, perform, attain. Any thoughts? Any help will be most appreciated as always. Regards, Hari Singhtalk 17:15, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

A surprise for me too

Bhai sahib ji

Obviously a writer not exposed to Sikhi at all and the beautiful relationship that the Gurus had with Miam Mir and other Muslims! A real shame that this fact is not known to more writers in this part of the world. Sometimes I think that just a little more education could solve many of the world problems. If the world knew of the real way in which history developed during the 1500s onwards may be there would be more peace! We appear to be repeating the same mistakes of the Mughals with the Taliban!

An interesting and thought provoking article despite the slight tunnel vision of the writer! Many thanks and kind regards; good to see your message after so many days. Rabb Rakha, Hari Singhtalk 17:32, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Harvinder Singh

Bhai sahib ji

Personal: I am sorry to hear that pain still troubles you and keeps you up regularly during the night; only the Lord know why such bodily suffering has to be endured; you have my prayers and sympathy; may the Lord provide you with the strength and endurance to overcome this personal hardship.

Bhai sahib, I suffer from severe acidity problem in the stomach when I either eat oily or "rich" food containing ghee or butter, etc or if I take a heavy meal, etc, etc. I sometimes think that this may be God's way of preventing me from harming myself. I have to be forever vigilant about my food but now and then I get this "suffering" so I have to further restrain myself and keep to the straight and narrow path as far as my eating is concerned. Perhaps, God gives us these pains to steer us onto the correct path! However, Bhai sahib, I hope the pain is not too severe and easily manageable/bearable.

Harvinder: Please do not apologise for keeping an eye on this website - we are all here as volunteers to help spread the message of the Gurus and to help anyone who is troubled by walking on this path of righteousness; we share the burden to monitor the Gurus image as portrayed by the postings at this site. You were not "snooping" but keeping an eye on the property of the Gurus; please feel free to look at everything that is happening here obvious subject to your personal time available.

In fact, I am most grateful for your amendments as they make the text much more detailed and covers aspects which I could never have got my hands on. Many thanks. As I have not received a reply from Harvinder, I will send a very polite letter to the school in the next 12 hours but also bearing in mind the comments made by keen eyed user Gbssungha who observed that it was April 1 yesterday and this may be an "April fools prank"; so I will deal with it a little more slowly than usual.

Also, just the fact that Harvinder has posted this message and that several of us have responded may produce its own momentum; your quote from the statute will also put pressure on the school. I am most grateful for your very valuable contribution. May the Lord's blessings be with you. Kind regards, Hari Singhtalk 14:08, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Kalasinga and other things!

Bhai Sahib ji,

Many thanks for the message and your medical remedy; I will try a similar product from the local shops and see if does the trick. Fortunately, due to a generally reasonable level of self control, the problem has not been too serious lately; but I will keep "your medicine" to hand just in case!

Bhai sahib, your remedy has given me another thought which is this: I don't generally like taking sour thing - may be that in itself may be the problem. I think that taking a huge variety of foods may help the digestive system and by restricting myself predominately to just sweet and salty foods may not be good for the stomach. I will try and include some bitter and sour things in my daily diet. It is possible that the lack of these bitter and sour foods, which I naturally dislike is encouraging the growth of a variant of bacteria that promotes more acid production in the stomach. Thanks for the idea; I will try some experimenting and let you know how it goes!

Delhi problem: Yes, as you say the work done on the possible "April fool joke" was rewarding just for its own sake and it has put us in a forward position if it ever happens again. Many thanks for your hard work; the facts are ready if we need them again. Also, you have a better understanding of where to find other such details. Excellent and detailed research in such a short time; I am most grateful to you for your work. It is rewarding when such amazing results can be produce by us "working together" as a group, only formed to promote the message of the Gurus.

Kalasingha & E Africa: When we were I Kenya, the word Kalasingha was much used and the local had a lot of respect for the Sikhs who wore turbans. It was strange to come to the UK during the late 1960s and find that we had became an "unknown" entity; the word "kalasingha" and the respect that went with it was nowhere to be found in the UK. At first we thought that this same respect of the "Singhs" would come here as well after a few years; once the local recognised us, they would treat us in the same way; unfortunately, we were completely wrong. To this day I have not understood why? Were the African more perceptive of other people or were the old Sikhs exceptional in the way they lived or .......

Thanks to the Sikh heritage website - excellent pictures and stories. I have downloaded the Africa part to my system so that I can browse it without the broadband connection and as a resource to refer to instantly. Kind regards, Hari Singhtalk 17:50, 3 April 2010 (UTC)


Bhai sahib ji,

Many thanks for your good wishes and the very useful external link; may the Almighty bless us all during these difficult times all around the world. I have added the news item. My kind regards to you and your family, Hari Singhtalk 01:06, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the renewed link

Bhai Sahib,

Many thanks again for bringing the renewal of the article at the link to my attention; more coverage than before. The article is informative but may contain an error relating to Guru Gobind Singh. I do not believe the 10th master visited Hassanabdal; the writer may be a little confused on this point. Nevertheless, an interesting news item. Our news link from the mainpage still works so I have not changed the picture.

Queues at immigration or security check point seems to be the way of the world these days especially in 3rd world countries.

Veer ji, I am most grateful again for your vigilance and your keen eye for these Sikhi related items; kind regards and keep in chardikala, Hari Singhtalk 16:38, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the photo

Bhai sahib ji,

Many thanks for the great photo; I will incorporate it in our daily photo database. Kind regards, Hari Singhtalk 02:38, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

veiled attack

Bhai sahib ji,

I am most grateful for your message; I am afraid we did have a "server down" situation earlier today; can't understand why but that is 3 times in the last 2 weeks; fortunately the support people were able to fix things within a few hours.

Its good to hear that you are spending time outside in the fresh air and sunshine gardening; I hope you are enjoying it. I too have been helping my wife with some of the chores in the garden and it makes a change from working indoors for long hours. I think with the blessings of the Almighty, SikhiWiki is at a stage where we can work at a relaxed pace if we need to; there is a good amount of information already available for most people to be satisfied; more creative ideas and a little gradual improvement should be sufficient to keep the site ticking along.

I did notice the "veiled attack" and the distasteful article about Harbinder Singh Rana who appears to be making a valuable contribution to the visibility of Sikhi in the UK and through the website at ASHT to the whole world as can be seen from the article here at SikhiWiki; he may have some blemishes from the distant past but to forgive is a virtue and a reformed person must be allowed to "make a new start" and prove his reformation; to condemn someone for life is not the message of Guru Nanak!

I believe that by making such a extensive and valuable contribution to Sikhi and society generally, he has shown that he is a reformed character worthy of a second chance and that his past needs to be put there, in the past where it belongs! He is entitled to be honoured for the great work that he is doing now in the present.

I agree with you that these sneak attacks are not acceptable and contrary to the message of the Guru. I have looked at all the references that you mentioned and linked them to the new article here rather than at Wikipedia where the article will probably be deleted soon. It is common these days to find vindictive rivalry between members of close communities and I am sure this may be the reason why these negative remarks have been made by some; further, it may also be a sign of jealousy which is why supporter of Mr Rana have also been mentioned in an attempt to tarnish their reputation as well. Bhai sahib, there is a dark cloud of negativity, hatred and vindictiveness which prevails in the world these days and the positivity, praise and love has taken flight.

I am most obliged to you, for your message and the keen interest that you have always shown in matters here; my prayers are with you; may Waheguru bless you and your family and may happiness surround everyone of you at all times. Rabb Rakha, Hari Singhtalk 22:57, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

Ubuntu & Golden Langar

Respected Bhai sahib ji,

Ubuntu: An amazing word! In addition to 'Sarbat dah bhala', I also see more of the word Parupkaar here - "to do good to others" in the word "Ubuntu". I have added the quotes from your message to the article at Parupkaar. Parupkaree - is the person who does good to others. I read all the links that you gave and the one to Ubuntu (philosophy) is most fascinating. Many thanks for bring this to my attention. In fact I have the 'Ubuntu' version of Linux loaded on the computer at mum's but I never knew what the word meant; I knew it was African but did not realise that it has such a interesting link to Sikhi!

Taava or Loh for making chappatis

Golden Langar: Bhai sahib the reference to 'Loh' or ਲੋਹ s  is the large hot plate used to make chappatis. The picture show one at Bangla Sahib Gurdwara in Delhi but these can be found in most Gurdwaras; so the reference is to this huge plate! I can assure you they are not small like the ones we use in homes but much bigger with upwards of 20-50 chappatis being made at the same time.

I don't know how we can make the translation better because as you say, for most westerns this would not convey the right image. I think I would add your translation first and then quote the original one and explain that these are very large plate! Plus add the picture - I will try and find a better picture which I remember seeing of a massive round plate.

Aashima Seth Captured on film: Bhai sahib, when you copy an article from the web or from an email, then the name of the image file sometimes appears in place of the image on the wiki article - I believe that "Aashima Seth Captured on film" may have been the name of the image file at this location in the original article.

I have adjusted this section by taking out this phrase. Kind regards and many thanks again, Hari Singhtalk 23:21, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

Video of Gurdwara & Langar: Interesting video; "May the iron plates of the Langar always be hot" sounds better than "hot plates"; yes, I think this conveys the meaning without the link to the small appliances that we use in homes. It is to convey the wish that may the Langar always continue and that this institution established by Guru Nanak survive the many hurdles faced by mankind so that the generosity and the commitment to sewa and to charity never diminish in this world! Excellent; well decided! Kind regards, Hari Singhtalk 22:36, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Harbinder Singh Rana‎

Bhai sahib ji,

Many thanks for the message; I am most grateful for your help. I am sorry that I have been slow to respond but with the fine weather recently in the South-East here in the UK, I have taken the rear oppurtunity to spent a little more time gardening and otherwise outside in the sun.

Bhai sahib, I have removed all the recent changes from this article as I feel this may be counter productive; also we have not given Harbinder Singh a chance to explain his side of things as with the passage of time the articles remaining on the net are the ones which are vindictive rather than "run of the mill" - this would give a very biased picture of what really happened. Many years ago, it is appreciated that the press and society here in the UK generally was very "anti-foreigners" and many injustices have been done in this way by the press; I know of many exaggerations and unnecessary coverage of stories where "foreigners" were involved; I guess that if this was not a Mr Singh, there probably would not have been a story in the papers at all! So I am of the opinion that unless the matter is recent and covered by the Sikh press, we need to be careful.

The other more important aspect of articles here is that as Sikhs and followers of the spiritual path, we need to be forgiving and more understanding - this which happened in the 1980's have to "put to bed" if one has reformed oneself. Mr Singh is obviously helping the Sikh community now and that I believe should be our prime focus. He has some problems from the distant past but they are decades ago and as a forgiving faith, I do not think these old issues help us here at SikhiWiki; a site which promote Sikhi and Sikhs; I hope you will not take any offence to this stand.

As you say, people appear to have fascination for sexual acts of any kind and user:Jangbeer Singh appears to have a special issue with this person. I have protected the page for now as we cannot be "watching over our shoulders" at all times. Please let me know if you need anything particular added otherwise we will leave that article as it stands.

It is good to know that you worked for NBC doing Court work; you must have listened to many horrible stories! It is interesting to note the "attraction of sexual trials" for the person on the street! Bhai Sahib, keep well; may the Lord's thought always be in your heart, Hari Singhtalk 23:38, 27 April 2010 (UTC)


Bhai sahib ji,

You keep surprising me with the wisdom and knowledge that you display of the faiths and cultures of the East. Bowing or showing respect is something which is valued by the Gurus and to be humble is a necessity to progress spiritually. An egocentric will not reach God - "Acting in egotism, the Lord is not known, even by wearing religious robes" (SGGS p 226) and also God can only be realised when the ego has been subdued - "The Name of the Lord dwells within the mind; egotism and anger are wiped away." (SGGS p 33)

As you say the words Namaste, Namascar and Danndotnaa all have the flavour of bowing. In the generation of my parents, it was a custom for all children to touch the feet of their elders; this cultivated an attitude of humbleness and love and people lived in unity and peace when this custom was maintained for many centuries. However, this aspect of life has disappeared and rigid behaviour has become the order of the day.

There are fanatics in all cultures and faiths and Sikhi is no exception. Many believe that bowing should only be reserved for the Guru Granth Sahib and that no one else should be honoured in this manner! So, children will not bow to their parents or elders and the custom of bowing has fast disappeared; with it has gone the attitude of being humble and respect for elders.

I agree with you completely on the section that you write about Bhai Mohinder Singh; he is a humble person completely devoted to righteousness and we don't need user like this one to go around needlessly "insult" their good name. The user has a very negative attitude and therefore I had barred him; I do not believe that this is the correct platform for him to "spit his poison". All his three contributions have been negative and criticisms of Sikhs or their organisations. I do not believe that he has the positive attitude necessary to be a contributor here at SikhiWiki.

I hope you enjoyed your time in the garden; we have had a most splendid weather for the last 3 weeks and many flowers and vegetables have taken root. It is great to see the plants grow and flourish; another miracle of God!

I don't know who Gurmeet Kaur Rai is but I believe she spoke against the re-gilding on the Harmandar Sahib by GNNSJ. Before one criticises they must themselves attain a position of authority; they must have done similar tasks to a better standard so that they can criticise from a position of strength. I do not believe that Ms Rai has achieved any project of the calibre or scale of that mastered by GNNSJ; it was a "paper criticism" based on theory and hypothesis and not one where they have actually done any project of a similar scale! It is a shame that we have been involved in negative aspect of our work here rather than adding positive material to the site. O'well, sometimes you have to stop the car and clean the screen by hand when a lot of filth gets on it! Rabb Rakha, 00:59, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

Mata Jito vs. Mata Sunder Kaur

Bhai sahib ji,

I agree with you 100%; it is indeed confusing. I think we need to accept that there are two possibilities that have not yet been resolved or at least accept that there is the "other view" as well so that the reader is aware of the two versions and so is not totally confused.

"Various evidence has been produced" but the authenticity and originality of some of this evidence has been challenged - so we need to cover both views of this issue until the matter is properly resolved in the future.

I agree, as you say, "If the truth cannot be known, it seems best to state there are differing opinions." Please feel free to amend in line with this concept. If you need any help, please let me know but please state that there are two views in the Sikh circles and that the matter has not yet been fully resolved one way or the other. Many thanks and kind regards, Hari Singhtalk 04:26, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Puzzling behavior and citation template

Bhai Sahib ji,

Indeed, what a puzzling way to act and attack! Thanks for the vigilance; I have added the caption about Ragi ji carrying the Guru Granth Sahib. Turning to the template issue, Bhai sahib there are a few options available and I will cover just a couple (I hope I have understood you correctly):

1. To just display the words "citation needed" is superscript perhaps in blue -just like this: citation needed at the point where the exact phrase {{citation needed}} is inserted, a template can be created to do this. Just click on the red text - [citation needed] - this will open a new page. At this template page simply add the following to the template: <sup><font color=blue>citation needed</font color></sup>. Then save this in the normal way. Once this template has been created, then whenever you insert the phrase {{citation needed}} , the words citation needed will appear. That is how a template is created!

2. The second option is using an existing feature - There is an existing template previously called fact but now called citation which does a similar job. Simply insert the following template reference and the words "citation needed" will display like this [citation needed] at that point in the text where the phrase in inserted; the phrase to insert is just: {{citation}}

Bhai sahib, I hope this is what you require and I hope you will be able to follow these rather complicated instructions; if you wish to modify this in any way or if I have misunderstood you or you need me to clarify anything else, please do not hesitate to write again. Rabb Rakha, Hari Singhtalk 21:54, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Charitar 16

Thanks for brushing up the article. done a good job. i have added reply to discussion page iof charitar 16, must read that. if any confusion ask (Lucky 09:05, 25 April 2010 (UTC))


This is written by old historians who were near to guru's history of 17th century and few in 18th century. Do you think those guys were ignorant of punjabi culture who wrote such a vast history in punjabi and belong to punjab? were they making history delicious by adding more wives?

moreover how many guru's wives name was changed? no answer. Actually bro they take feeling that their guru can't marry more than one. they did not know it was need of time so he married twice. they are talking about culture then having more than one wives was also culture, this doesn't mean i will add 3 more wives to guru nanak's history or arjun dev's history.

i have given 8 sources. Their burial place is different sunder kaur in delhi and jeet kaur in anandpur. Today a scholar came and don't know what he felt that this is blot of having more then one wive and he fix this with gobind singh. How could we ignore all past histories supporting facts? even memorials are present.

i have uploaded birth and marriage place of sunder kaur. she was married at bajwara and Jeet kaur was married at guru ka lahore.

Now tomarrow from my emotions i will say gobind singh had no sons, how could a father do this to his sons how could he send his son for war. gobind singh was bad father etc etc. will it be accepted?

thats why i mentioned that scholar's claim too. so that article will not say one side talk. and i have replied to that scholar's article too. Veer ji right now gurmukhs in nihung samparda is inactive regarding PARCHAR(Preach), if they will come in arena you will see a explosion of wisdom will occur and it will difficult to handle.

hor sunao, life how is? if still confusion then tell don't make your point on such assumption that it happens, it not happens everytime. My mom's name is same but my faternal aunt name was changed by my grandmom. well this is today if you will take old times, ganga(wife of 5th gur) name was same before and after marriage and their are other wives too like Bhani name was same, anokhi name was same etc etc etc etc etc. This assumption is given to prove a fact which is not acceptable in histories.

moreover i have no taste of making more gurus wife but sir fact is fact.

(Lucky 06:08, 1 May 2010 (UTC))

Bhagat Singh

Dear Sir, The book is published by Punjbabi University Patiala, and is called Shaheed Bhagat Singh, A Biography, By Gurdev Singh Deol.M.A,Ph.D. Major (NCC). First Edition was printed in 1969.

Gurfateh ji Kular


Bhai Sahib ji,

Many thanks for the warning; however I had already examined this file without? any perceivable harm to the system. I am hoping that your computer is being "extra cautious" which is not a bad thing in these challenging times! Is this my system protecting me? Yes, I think it is as *.doc files can corrupt systems; so to be cautious is to be vigilant and hopefully be safer. Rabb Rakha, Hari Singhtalk 23:07, 11 May 2010 (UTC)


Sir ji , we all are fine and enjoying life with Almighty's grace. --user:sarbjeet_1313me 15:03, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Hello Sir

how are you? Now i am struggler sir studies over.

Was the place where Guru Nanak met with the Sidhus called Nanak Mata - at the time? Should this read (the place we now call Nanak Mata) or something else?

It was called Gorakh mata, but now it is nanakmata, moreover guru nanak have discourse with siddhas at various places like Nanakmata, jammu, Himachal(una), Tilganji(Tamil Nadu), Bal Gundai(Pakistan), Batala,( punjab)

Could you add a translation of Sidh Gosati?

it's already their veer ji check it.

and thank for improving article standard. Thx(Lucky 12:34, 5 June 2010 (UTC))

Chinese whisper

Bhai Sahib ji,

Sorry, I could not come back to you more quickly; but as you say the term is not regarded as offensive here in the UK - a term that defines a well known reality of life.

I hope you had an enjoyable trip and that all is well with your life and family. We have had some excellent weather here and everyone is enjoying the beginning of summer

Many thanks for your message; kind regards. Raab Rakha, Hari Singhtalk 12:49, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Mahant Tirath Singh ji

Bhai sahib ji,

Many thanks for the messages. The above article is sorted; I am now reading the article "Bring back Jinnah’s Pakistan" at Will comment on this later! Many thanks for the recommendation. Hope all is well with yourself and the family. Kind regards, Hari Singhtalk 21:31, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Excellent article! When one focusses on a sub-section of the wider community then one is becoming selfish and self-centred; that is why the cry of Khalistan never received a wider acceptance in the Sikh community. Nationalism when it is centred on a small sub-section of humanity is wrong and this just proves it; let us work to improve the whole of humanity and the whole of this world! Thanks again, Hari Singhtalk 21:44, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Guru Har Gobind

Bhai sahib ji,

Many thanks for the message; I have had a quick check of the changes and they seem fine. I will spend a little more time tomorrow going through the whole article in more detail but I am sure that it is a marked improvement on the old version. Many thanks for the changes; kind regards, Hari Singhtalk 01:18, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Professor Teja Singh

Bhai sahib ji,

Many thanks for the excellent work in combining the two versions of the article. I have placed a redirect on the Principal Teja Singh article so that it automatically goes to the main article at Professor Teja Singh. I hope this will be fine with you. This material looks most appealing; many thanks for your excellent job in merging the two versions - a mammoth task, very well done. Balle balle, Bhai sahib ji! Kind regards, Hari Singhtalk 00:01, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

Nikki Haley

Bhai Sahib ji,

Kind greetings and many thanks for the interesting link; it is not surprising that slur is used in abundance in the political field. Politicians strive to find newer and newer ways to tarnish their opponents; most do not have any constructive ideas to offer and so revert to their normal state of flinging mud at the opposite party in the hope that some of the dirt will stick! Doesn't it make you feel good that we are spared those evil karmas! Most appreciated; kind regards, Hari Singhtalk 00:20, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

Ani Rai

Actually, what our historians do they exposed those people of history which were against gurus and attacked on tham or those who were gurmukhs. Sri Chand was against gurus and attacked on them. Lakhmi chand was against GUrmat, and stay away from gurmat. So other sons of GUrus stay away from gurmat are not well explained in History.

Mohri, Mohan, Datu, Dasu etc. these were not inline with gurmat, but ya Prithi chand was not gurmukh though he attacked on guru ghar so his description is bit more. If you analyze you will find these. Still if i will have description about them in any book i will surely add. (paapi 09:35, 1 July 2010 (UTC))


Padarath means treasures not Blessing.
Nowhere is written Padarath as blessing.
if you do not believe me check etc. sites they too written the same. Moreover how can you cann padarath as blesssing. It's wrong meaning. Padarath is Treasure.

The Four Treasures whom you are saying Blessings, which were previously recorded were DHARAM, ARTH, KAAM and MOKSHA. These were MANMAT'ICALLY defined and have no importance in Sikhi and thats why GURMAT gave new Treasures, defined it in appropriate way. Check Gurbani for more details.

regarding Spiritual Powers, these powers defined in articles are not spiritual powers. Spiritual powers are truth, contentment, self conceit confidence etc.. these are worldly Powers. these are not related to Sikhism. Even NAnak rejected these worldly powers. The term is wrong that it's spirtual.

for eg. anima or lagima to become short or long, how it come spiritual? it's related to body, does spirit's size increase or decrease. So how come you say such things keep importance.

now come to nau nidh, gurbani have two versions, where it is saying nau nidh means nine treasures it always cut this version and for your information NAU also means NEW, NEW TREASURE. Gurbani itself is New Treasure. So the articles related to Gurmat are not well defined and explained on Sikhiwiki. It takes time to do So.

there are many concepts like

  • Irha Pingula Sukhmana
  • Satgur,Gur,GURU,Gurdev,SATGURU (all are different terms)
  • NAAM are of two types in gurbani, and what is naam?
  • ther are two ways god exisit Sun Samadh and Sahaj Samadh
  • How god creates Hukam
  • How Hukam works? how it works on Jarh(Non living) ior Chetan Living
  • How human is created
  • what is SPIRIT?
  • What is MANN (Mind)
  • Parbrahm, Pooran Brahm and Brahm differences

etc etc etc. Sir there are many spiritual concepts which are yet to be covered on Sikiwiki or you can say real gurmat.

we are ust bind to vegetarianism, amrit ceremony, drug, lust, differences with other religion thats all. Gurbani have some other world too

  • what is nirankar
  • what is ik hove ta ugavey

one more thing, if you really want essence of gurbani you have to learn Gurmukhi. It's Treasure itself the treasure of brahmgyan. So these articles are actually required

Take Care. (paapi 11:27, 4 July 2010 (UTC))

Mata Damodari and others

Bhai Sahib ji,

Many thanks for the messages; sorry I did not reply earlier but the heatwave meant that it is too hot to work indoors! So have been spending more time out in the garden and helping Mum. I did note your comment on Pink Pony and took steps to stop the user posting any further such dangerous looking links on our website.

I have looked at the article at Mata Damodari and added a link to Guru Gobind Singh's wife or wives - the issue regarding the number of wives of Guru Hargobind and Guru Gobind Singh is not easy to resolve and I think the best way forward is to accept that there are two differing camps and mention this whenever this issue turns up on the website. The research done by Dr. Gurbaksh Singh that is mentioned at Guru Gobind Singh's wife or wives is not accepted by everyone; so we are unable to resolve this matter in a simple manner. Hopefully, in future someone with more vision and historical research skills will overcome this hurdle.

Who has the [Original] Granth? The original copy of the scripture, called Adi Granth, compiled and authenticated by Guru Arjan Dev still exists today and is kept at Kartarpur which is a town about 15 km. north west of the city of Jalandhar, Punjab, India. (from wikipedia)

The Adi Granth was next added to by Guru Gobind Singh at Damdama Sahib in about 1705 and became the present version called the Guru Granth Sahib in 1708 at Nanded when it was installed as the perpetual Guru.

Avatars of God? "Satguru" means "True Guru" and is a word used to refer to God as only He is the one who will prevail forever; however, sometimes the word is also used to refer to the Sikh Gurus to distinguish them from just "any guru or spiritual teacher". However, I do not believe that the Sikh Gurus should be referred to as "Avatars of God" or "incarnations of God"; it is accepted that we are all sparks of the Supreme Soul but I don't think that means that we are "Avatars of God"!

Plato’s musical code Interesting observations but as I am not too familiar with Greek/European historical literature, I did not absorb the finer points that were mentioned.

Many thanks as always. Raab Rakha, Hari Singhtalk 21:46, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

Article is not obscure

sir article is very clear that God will not giving any written text to anybody. You have to read FOUR type of VAANI(Banis), then i feel you would clear these all then you will get to know how quran was written.

My belief is that it was either written by Muhammad but if he was illiterate then it was written by his companions or much later on.

Like GUru Arjun Said DHUR KI BANI AYI (The bani came from ALLLAH) and i will start shouting ALLAH gave granth to Guru Arjun Dev then it would be my stupidity. Sikhs do not believe in these Miracles.

(Lucky 09:27, 6 July 2010 (UTC))

Sir, i will explain you tomorrow, it's four types of bani not some stanzas. How Bani exists actually (Lucky 22:41, 6 July 2010 (UTC))

Wahegur Ji Ka Kahlsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

four types of banis:

  • Para Bani : Come directly from god and we listen it from heart and mind, or you can say ears of inner soul.
  • Pashanti bani: when someone discuss with you, you prepare to give answer...the time that bani is in your mouth is called pashanti.
  • Madhma Bani: it's medium, between sender and reciever, it's called Madhma Bani
  • Vaikhree Bani: that bani which you have listened carefully and which you could tell to some other is called vaikhree. Remember it covers LISTEN, not HEAR.

Bani is subject of ear(listening) and ear of inner soul(heart or mind).

now Granth or quran or bible is in which category you yourself tell???

What is GUrbani? What is bani guru guru hai bani?

if you will understood above concepts you will automatically know, what's actually bani is and how allah speaks bani?

take care (Lucky 12:12, 8 July 2010 (UTC))

Quran, an intriguing page and bhoot

Bhai sahib ji,

Many thanks for the recent messages; sorry for the delay in replying and in the "edit clashing" on the the article on Quran. I am sorry I caused you such inconvenience while making a trivial change myself - seems totally unfair to you; I hope it did not cause you too much difficulty in recreating your changes. Bhai sahib, if this happens in future, press the back button to get to your original changes on your browser - then by pressing "show changes" you can see what has changed and if it is just a small change as in this case then either just copy the whole article into a new window in the edit mode on the same article. I am sorry for "treading" on your edits!

We live to the east of London and Earl's Court tube station is about an hour's train journey from here. You seem to be doing well with your gardening; as a beginner, in previous years I used to help my wife with her flowers and baskets but only a few vegs - however, this year we have spent more time growing veg and they seem to be doing well in this hot weather. Unfortunately, the frost did not disappear until early May and so everything is a little late despite the help of a small greenhouse. The only veg that we have consumed so far are iceberg lettuce, french beans, one cucumber, a few courgettes and marrow. Tomatoes, chillies, pepper, aubergines, etc are still many weeks from bearing any fruit!

Living in an urban environment, we do not see any wild animals apart from foxes who are a nuisance to domestic pets but do not pose any problem to the garden crops - we have more problems with little insects like black and green flies, caterpillars, etc.

Thank you asking; mum is keeping very well. As you know dad passed away nearly 20 months ago and the rest of the family now take it in turns to sleep at mum's every night. We are three brothers, all married and 1 sister who is a widow; all four of us are aged over 45 and have at least 2 adult children each; in fact mum has 10 grandchildren who are all over 18 and 1 great grand-daughter. As is the custom, the family of 18 is dedicated in their joint responsibility to cater for the needs of mum and it is great fun to be a part of this team of "like minded individuals" involved in this mission; together, we take mum to the local Gurdwara several times a week; the kids take her shopping, etc, etc. Unfortunately, this does limit the amount of "free time available" and so I find that at present I am unable to spent more time on the computer and on Sikhiwiki.

An Intriguing page An amazing article - clearly a chaotic situation where no one wants to take control and move in a positive direction; the people in power want to milk the country dry while the poor who are powerless do not know or understand which way to turn; a truly stricken ship!

Bhoot: Looking for a Gurmukhi word in the transliteration part is very difficult. I have used a couple of utilities (templates) which may make the task a little easier:

This adjacent link will give all the lines in the SGGS with the Gurmukhi word "ਭੂਤ" (Bhoot). Words containing "bhoot" as a subsection are also included in the list. However, I think you will be able to find this word more easily by using this link - The word "ਭੂਤ" is highlighted in red so it is just a matter of counting the correct sequence of words to find it: ਭੂਤ

Page 289 is listed at this link; 714 too; and so is 1202, etc

This link gives the meaning of the Gurmukhi word "ਭੂਤ" (Bhoot): ਭੂਤ s 

I hope this help. Raab Rakha, Hari Singhtalk 04:12, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

PS: External link "spanner" blocked! - thanks for the note. Hari Singhtalk 00:38, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Productive garden, unacceptable username and interesting articles

Bhai Sahib ji,

Many thanks for your detailed account of the baaj and your adventures with the garden. Seems like you live in a very pleasant countryside location with wild animals all around you. The problems of pests that you have are completely different from the ones we face here in an urban location. Still, the enjoyment is universal and the solutions to controlling the pests also point to using natural predators - in your case it is the hawk while in our case it is the humble ladybird and insects like that!

I hope you manage to find a solution to the problems with peats as I know how annoying it can be to see all the efforts go to ruin. Thanks also for alerting me to the unacceptable username - it has been blocked. I am going to read your suggested articles; I will come back later to let you have my reaction; most grateful for the recommendation. Raab rakha, Hari Singhtalk 22:12, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Many thanks for the excellent article on global warming and the video of population growth and the importance of education. Kind regards, Hari Singhtalk 23:08, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Page with link with external website has been deleted and the user blocked. Thanks as always for keeping watch; much appreciated. Kind regards, Hari Singhtalk 22:37, 24 July 2010 (UTC)


Hello how are you

1) Hindus Krisna have form, in Gurmat Krisna is formless, so defination changes here

2) If in gurmat Krisna is formless then all the places related to krisna comes in Gurbani are formless too.

3) Ram is one which speaks in all and krisna is one which is present in all. When person listens to himself(Mann) it is acting acc. to krisna, we have to become RAMA to attain god, rama is inner soul.

4) Now what is Formless Krisna?

1) Mann(Attentions, soul) is attributed as Black in gurbani and Krisna is black too, but Ram is not attributed as black but it is attributed as present in Light not Dark.

The Dark part of our soul is attributed as krisna and light part is attributed as RAMA.

Krisna is always in MANMATT, all vices are related to Krisna.

We have two parts in ourself KRISHNA and RAMA. Positive is RAMA and Negative is krishna, but if these both two are one then the next step is to get god. First we have to finish negativity from ourself and work positively as our RAMA guided us from inside.

Gurbani says there are MANY KRISHNAS and there are MANY RAMAS too. HOW? the answer is lying their in your previous post.

Sabey GHat Ram boley (Ram Speaks in every one and Krisna is present in everyone)


Now HIndus have made FORMS of krishnas and ramas, they made their seperate places brindaban and mathura and ayodhya etc. and they say that both are one, but they are not able to prove that both are one as both of their Demi Gods have seperate philosphy too.

Gurmat proved it how both are one. Gurmat have given all definations which were previously you can say either distorted or was not clear. It's spiritual Granth, the story of inside.

hope you understand my points better now, due to bad article writing skills, that article confused you.


about hindus not understanding concept of their own religion i mean to say that they have mythology not history, mythology was made to tell something not to make FORMS and start undesrtanding them, but as mention in our granth that this IDOL worship business started because Priests started selling the religion. Go and Search in Vedas they to accept the fact that God is formless, Krishna stories were spoiled and were remade by devotees. YOu can read Namdev's bani to understand krishna better who lived whole life in Krishna Devotees.

take care (Lucky 14:35, 25 July 2010 (UTC))

Thanks for the welcome

Thank you very much for the welcome and the words of encouragement. I'm glad that you appreciate my efforts here (and elsewhere on the Internet and in life, so it seems). For what it's woth, I wish I knew everything thay you know.

To answer your question, I'm in Longtan Township, Taoyuan County, Taiwan and a very pleasant place it is to live, too! Simon Peter Hughes 07:40, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Good Work

i have just seen krishna article, you wrote very genuine and created a nice article, thanks for understanding and creating that article. (Lucky 09:44, 27 July 2010 (UTC))

You wrote: here was only one krishna define. It means Krishna is not one. The concept is different from hinduism. makes no sense to me?

Gurbani says there are many krishnas, but in hinduism the belief is there is a krishna who lived in dwarka born in mathura played in brindaban. How there are many krishnas? simple there are many living beings lived on earth, every one contain RAMA and KRISHNA. KRISHNA as attributed to (Mann) which remain tangle in darkness and do not listen to his inner soul. This is not about only hptlucky, this is about everyone. I am too tangled in MAYA and do not remember god and so others and what we do, we have vices lust, anger, greed and to satisfy them we play different games i.e BAAL LEELA or KRISNA LEELA. for satisfying the nees this mann(Mind) remain tangle in maya to satisfy itself.

There are three attributes Inner SOul(Away from Maya, always positive), SOUL(term i am using for MANN i.e TANGLE in MAYA) and our Brain. When brain is with MANN(Krisna) it just love MAYA, loive worldly pleasures. but if this MANN is in gurbani and absorb itself in INNER SOUL then Brain(BUDDH) goes to RAM(Inner soul) then such BUDHI loves spiritual pleasures and these worldly pleasures have no importance for such soul.

HUMAN BODY is nothing it will vanish, GUrbani is about INNER BODY(SOUL), when tangle in maya called MANN = LAKHMANN = KRISNA, the positive part which guides us from inner (that chap don't do this this is not benifitted. Dont steal this etc.), that is attributed to RAM or in gurmat term it is PAR + ATMA(Not PARM + ATMA).

hope you understand. this is basic concepts which will help you to purify all terminologies.

in Hinduism they worship krisna, we do not, i feel cleared with defination by now. they think there is only one krisna, we are saying there are many as krisna is part of our soul, so everyone is krisna, everyone contains rama. third it's formless, YES SOUL is formless NIRAKAAR(not NIRAN + KAAR)

i hope now you got the difference (Lucky 09:53, 27 July 2010 (UTC))

My View

No this attitude is also right.(LOKO AAPO APNI MAINU APNI PAYI)

These are fake conceptions no one will come. Like it is belief that Kalki will come one day, What is Kalki? it's NehKalanki which means without KALANK without BLOT, and without BLOT means a Mind(MATT) who have understand god a soul who have attained the supreme bliss is NIHKALANKI itself. This is defination of Guru Gobind Singh. When such MATT will follow Wisdom the spiritual wisdom the divine wisdom such matt is called GUR + MATT. Don't think that i am saying Sikhs are best. i am saying GURMATT is best. Gurmatt is their in quran but not well explored, may be their in other religions too. Now how to decide what is gurmat what is not it's VIVEK BUDHI who will decide this, in a Khand person have to (TITHEY GHADIYE SURAT MATT MANN BUDH) when the mind and soul become intuitive and discerning, it will able to decide what right is and what is wrong. We are trying to get it.

let me add we keep beard we put turban and these keep no significance in DHARAM. This is mashrat, the outer living. Dharam is about the inner living, if inner living is beautiful outer becomes automatically, right? We stress on outer style, outer way of living. We do not stress on inner way of living. UNDERSTANDING is inner way of living.

Believe after understand, without understanding if you are believing then it's just blind faith. right?

Now you gave me examples of different religions, let me try to apply Gurmat methodology on them:

1) Punishment in Grave:

Person when comes out of womb the punishment starts from that day, he weeps, god have throwed him away out of his country(Sachkhand) to JHOOTKHAND(The realm of JHOOT/LIE/MAYA). When god do not let us to understand himself, he haven't given us VIVEK BUDHI then it's nothing more then punishment. If he remain us tangle in Maya, it's nothing bigger then punishment.

Muslim believes they have to go to HEAVEN or HELL, but they never think where they are right now, is this heaven or hell, they are not with allah right now too? they say if muhamad will say no they will go to hell and other will go to heaven. To whom will muhamad say no? who remain tangle in maya and forget allah, and what is hell now, again reborn, soul is in fire here, there is no other fire which burn soul other then MAYA(Tanglement/non union).

Sikh believes that WIthout supreme bliss he is in hell. Lack of Wisdom is living in hell, Whole life i tried to discover a thing(MAYA) and die without wisdom then what will happen? so Spiritual Wisdom is more most important in life.if you have that wisdom then you will be out of grave in arms of allah.

This body(of Maya) is soul's Grave.

i feel gurmat have explained Judgement day, grave soul, heaven and hell.

though gurmat have not used these terminologies upto that extent to explain Brahmgyan.

about jinn: i have to meet it to know it, muslims never met jinn, some person have psychological disorder may be they treat it as jinn don't know. i will study aspect and will share spiritual aspect with you.

The Shias (12vers) most Iranians) believe in an Imam who disappeared as a child, but is still alive and will return again one day.

Sheer rubbish, not logically correct and gurmatically too. (Har JUg JUg BHAGAT UPAYA), devotees visiblise in every Yugas, one who dies he never come back. Law of Nature. but ya his philosphy can arrive back if other understands. Kabir gave Gurmat, Nanak understand it again, gobind singh also understand it . So Kabir is coming in form of nanak and gobind singh.

It's Matt which comes again and again. NANAK WILL NOT COME AGAIN IN PHYSICAL FORM. but ya the real GURMAT is coming, and who is describing is called called KALKI = NIHKALANKI(not Hindu's one)

Christians believe in one god

Ya, good believe but i said believe after understanding it, see it and sing for it. don't sing blindly.

A Guy with eyes standing b4 taj mahal can say it is taj mahal, but for blind it's not taj mahal, when he will listen from someone he will say it is taj mahal, and ya suppose you go and tell him it's qutab minar then...........i feel this sort out lot of things.

i am not writing it to you, i am writing it for myself first and when i read someones i read it for myself first, and believe if it is gurmat.(first we have to understand what is gurmat term, i will create article shortly in my hillarious english)

ya, Believe after understand. read japuji first SUNIYEY comes then MANIYEY comes

see Jesus as God's son sent to Earth

God is formless and Soul is formless. He was follower of HUKAM(Command), every one who follows his command he cares him like his own kid. They were torturing jesus body, but his soul was not getting tortured why? i feel we have discussed it in previous posts. God was caring for him like father, no problem call him son, but saying that he is only son is again MANMATT. Guru Arjun was also tortured, ya we have not made movie PASSION OF GURU ARJUN DEV, else one could get emotional ans stick to body.

these two great personalities never get emotional, they were enjoying. let's become christ guru arjun....waheguru/god/allah bless

Some even believe in worshiping God while they dance around holding rattle snakes (our version of the Cobra) - when they get bitten and die, they say they didn't have faith.

will you call it a belief of an eye opener? if nanak arrived before such people he would Laugh Out Loud. Nanak said (ASANKH MOORAKH ANDHGHOR)

Their beliefs are none of my business, the Khalsa was created to provide protection for those people, when attacked, not to attack or mock their religion. Do I have this wrong?

Nanak never went to common people to spread message but he went to high priests to discuss wisdom why? because common people are under control of high priests, what they say, these people say TRUE SIR TRUE SIR. So when you read his history he is discussing with only those people which are well known, because if those people come on way, people will automatically come after their preaching. if they come to common people to preach this they might run forward and people came behind them with stones in hand.

and about never mocked

1) A person is going to head priest of KAABA and saying god is not in KAABA, but in heart. What more attack we need sir?

2) He went to yogis and said him that by keeping matted hair dhunis you will attain nothing, but by understandg and having love with him you will attain something.

3) meting bairagis he is saying that by leaving your home you will attain nothing but by leaving MAYA you will attain something

i doubt you haven't read granth sahib from all sides. What is attack in your language? there are hundred of lines of mocking

If you want to say LIVE and LET LIVE then NANAK did blunder, right? think if nanak will say "Their beliefs are none of my business", he could not condenm those beliefs. Why not nanak sit at home and follow his own belief? because he was ordered by god.

(i have seen Paapi made a picture of krisna telling that this is not krisna but krisna is inside us and he is fighting with admin on this. LOL, that is image description of the concept, and it's not non-gurmat)

Khalsa made to fight against Tyranny. Khalsa is FAUj(ARMY), now think if some IDol worshipper is discussing with ISLAMIC(Non Idol worshipper) and idol worshipper will ask help from you khalsa. Now will you start worshipping idol???

No TRUTh is TRUTH, you will give side of muslim on this regard. and their faith will be automatically mocked. Khalsa is not just by Weapons, it's also by Spiritual weapons(Gyan KHADAG).

Truth have two tastes: 1) Sweet (For Gurmukhs - who love Spiritual wisdom)

2) Bitter (For Manmukhs)

For me Truth is sweet, i have done negative things in my life and people when realize me i never go down, thats truth.


Sorry if any fact hurts. and correct where i am wrong. i am NOthing, but what mention in granth, i am sharing on base of it.

(Lucky 14:22, 27 July 2010 (UTC))

High Priests and Professors

Bhai Sahib ji,

What is right has to be protected and defended; unfortunately what is stipulated in the holy Granth is not what we find in reality in the panth. I am amazed how some of the simply concepts in Sikhi have been ignored and in some case completely misunderstood.

It is clear from Sikh history and Gurbani that there is no room from high priests in this faith but still the old customs will not die! The sangat still wants others to spoon feed them; they do not want to take the initiative to get off their backsides and make the effort required. They then believe what they are told; the real message is completely missed as it is not in the interest of the high priests to promote the real message - they feed the sangat their own version and interpretation of Gurbani!

The Professor's page is locked - I cut it off at a different point but most of the recent flaming material has been left out. I will add the other dialogue box, etc. later on once I have figured how we will maintain this page. As always, many thanks for you continued vigilance, constant assistance and logical suggestions.

The exact facts about the Professor's recent conduct are clouded and so I am inclined to leave this article in its present state until we get more credible facts. I note your comments and will try and find some time to do more reading on this subject. I agree with you that the "political" business in this matter is something from which we should all keep very far away.

I read your linked story with much sadness - the state of this country is extremely frightening and I do not know how it will ever turn a corner; such a poor justice system together with a population drowned in prejudice is a sure sign for a future of continued misery... a very sad and hopeless situation.

May the Lord have mercy on these people because otherwise I see a lot of bloodshed and pain. Kind regards, Hari Singhtalk 23:52, 27 July 2010 (UTC)