Difference between revisions of "User talk:Voyager"

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Thank you Khalsa Ji. I will try to write this up. Perhaps we can create a separate article, something titled "Revelation in Sikhism", and refer to that in the main Sikhism article. Or we could just directly edit the Sikhism article. In either case, I will try to write it up based on some scholarly sources I have collected recently.  
+
: Thank you Khalsa Ji. I will try to write this up. Perhaps we can create a separate article, something titled "Revelation in Sikhism", and refer to that in the main Sikhism article. Or we could just directly edit the Sikhism article. In either case, I will try to write it up based on some scholarly sources I have collected recently.  
  
On an unrelated note, I see that most of the activity here at Sikhiwiki these days is concentrated on caste related articles. Since you have been an editor and administrator here for some time, could you kindly share if the usefulness of these articles has been discussed in the past. I do understand that all such articles clearly specify upfront that these articles are informational only, and Sikhism condemns the caste system. But nonetheless, do these articles deserve a place on "SikhiWiki". Personally, I feel disappointed, that so much effort is being devoted on these articles, rather than on improving core Sikhism related articles.  
+
: On an unrelated note, I see that most of the activity here at Sikhiwiki these days is concentrated on caste related articles. Since you have been an editor and administrator here for some time, could you kindly share if the usefulness of these articles has been discussed in the past. I do understand that all such articles clearly specify upfront that these articles are informational only, and Sikhism condemns the caste system. But nonetheless, do these articles deserve a place on "SikhiWiki". Personally, I feel disappointed, that so much effort is being devoted on these articles, rather than on improving core Sikhism related articles.  
  
PS: Kindly do not construe my point as questioning you personally. As I said, I just wanted to get some feedback, since you are a senior administrator.  
+
: PS: Kindly do not construe my point as questioning you personally. As I said, I just wanted to get some feedback, since you are a senior administrator.  
  
Kind regards. [[User:Voyager|Voyager]] ([[User talk:Voyager|talk]]) 19:59, 10 November 2015 (CST)
+
: Kind regards. [[User:Voyager|Voyager]] ([[User talk:Voyager|talk]]) 19:59, 10 November 2015 (CST)
 +
 
 +
-----
 +
 
 +
Khalsa Voyager ji,
 +
 
 +
The articles on Caste were recently worked on by a newcomer 'Sikh-Guy' and as the user seemed to be reducing these articles to a minimum level, I let him get on. However, on close inspection due to an alert by an old devoted user, I notice that there were rude comments about a few castes. I therefore have just reverted all these articles to their pre-'Sikh-Guy' days.
 +
 
 +
I think I spent 30 minutes just reverting them back to their "original" form. As far as I am concerned, this was no effort at all! SikhiWiki gives information on all terms that are relevant to the Sikhi religion. As these are words used in Sikhi, we have to have some explanation about these terms. Most of these article started small but in time others have added to what was there and made some of the caste article unnecessarily large.
 +
 
 +
Kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 21:32, 10 November 2015 (CST)
 +
 
 +
: Dear Khalsa Ji,
 +
 
 +
: I have created a page on Revelation in Sikhism. Kindly review and share your views. This is just a starting point, meant to get something out, and I may certainly have made mistakes. The article would also need to be improved.
 +
 
 +
: Regarding the caste pages, I apologize but I could not understand your comment "As these are words used in Sikhi". I believe these caste words are used by the Sikh/Punjabi people, but not in the Sikh religion. In any case, I guess we can discuss this further at a later time.
 +
 
 +
: Regards, [[User:Voyager|Voyager]] ([[User talk:Voyager|talk]]) 02:31, 11 November 2015 (CST)
 +
 
 +
 
 +
== Editing next to impossible for me ==
 +
 
 +
Khalsa Ji
 +
 
 +
[[WKWF]]
 +
 
 +
I have got your message. I too have a slight issue with this but I can still manage. I will pass this to the technical people and revert back soon.
 +
 
 +
 
 +
Many thanks and kind regards,
 +
 
 +
[[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 16:20, 1 December 2015 (CST)
 +
 
 +
 
 +
: Thank you for your response, Khalsa Ji. ! [[User:Voyager|Voyager]] ([[User talk:Voyager|talk]]) 14:44, 3 December 2015 (CST)
 +
 
 +
 
 +
== Pls add noCasteism to some pages ==
 +
Khalsa Ji
 +
 
 +
[[WKWF]]
 +
 
 +
<pre>
 +
{{ nocasteism }}
 +
</pre>
 +
 
 +
Done as suggested. Many thanks.
 +
 
 +
 
 +
Best regards,
 +
 
 +
[[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 16:36, 4 December 2015 (CST)
 +
 
 +
== Page Deletion ==
 +
 
 +
Khalsa Ji, {{WKWF}}
 +
 
 +
Page [[Bhakti Movement and Sikhism]] has been deleted.
 +
 
 +
Unfortunately there is no quick way of highlighting such a page as far as I am aware. I suggest that you just list them in a message as you did with this one but you can group them together if you have more than 1 page.
 +
 
 +
Kind regards.
 +
 
 +
[[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 18:16, 9 March 2016 (CST)
 +
 
 +
 
 +
Dear Khalsa Ji, {{WKWF}}
 +
 
 +
Thank you ! for your recent appreciation on my user page. 
 +
 
 +
Regards
 +
[[User:Voyager|Voyager]] ([[User talk:Voyager|talk]]) 11:40, 17 March 2016 (CDT)
 +
 
 +
== Caste articles ==
 +
 
 +
{{WKWF}}, Khalsa ji
 +
 
 +
I agree that these articles are getting excessive editing and this has to stop. I will work on this over the next few days and will protect the pages from further unnecessary attention.
 +
 
 +
Kind regards,
 +
[[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 20:35, 26 April 2016 (CDT)
 +
 
 +
: Thank you Khalsa Ji, for your prompt response. !
 +
 
 +
: Regards,
 +
: [[User:Voyager|Voyager]] ([[User talk:Voyager|talk]]) 13:56, 27 April 2016 (CDT)
 +
 
 +
== Recent changes not showing ==
 +
 
 +
Khalsa Ji
 +
 
 +
Many thanks for the message.
 +
 
 +
I have checked the "Recent changes" entries on my computer and it seems to be working fine. Both when I check the various pages where changes have been made both by me and by also by other users. Can you please check the "preferences" option and particularly the "Recent changes" sub-tab - It should be set as follows:
 +
 
 +
:'''Recent Changes - Display options'''
 +
:Days to show in recent changes: 30
 +
:Number of edits to show by default: 1000
 +
 
 +
:All the "Advanced options" should be left blank.
 +
 
 +
Please let me know if this helps.
 +
 
 +
Kind regards,<br>
 +
[[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 20:47, 24 May 2016 (CDT)
 +
 
 +
 
 +
Thank you Khalsa Ji, for your kind reply. I have the settings you suggested, but there continues to be some issue. I especially do not see my own edits in the "recent changes". I only hope it does not mean I am missing on some other edits as well. Regards, [[User:Voyager|Voyager]] ([[User talk:Voyager|talk]]) 03:07, 28 May 2016 (CDT)
 +
 
 +
== Bhagat Namdev at the Temple ==
 +
 
 +
Khalsa ji,
 +
 
 +
I agree with your comments on this query however, I think that as Bhagat ji bani is included in the [[SGGS]], it is very likely that where ever bhagat ji went, he would only "... worship the One Immortal God" - He may have gone to a Shiva temple but it is likely to provide a lesson to the sangat at that temple and "set an example". It is like [[Guru Nanak]] going to Haridwar and [[Watering the Crops]].
 +
 
 +
You are doing a great job in supporting this site and your continued help is much appreciated.
 +
 
 +
[[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 13:36, 2 January 2017 (CST)
 +
 
 +
Khalsa Ji, thank you for your message. I completely see your point. Maybe we can make some change to the article to clarify this. I will try to do it at some point when I get a chance, and seek your feedback on that. Best regards. [[User:Voyager|Voyager]] ([[User talk:Voyager|talk]]) 22:13, 15 January 2017 (CST)
 +
 
 +
== Guru Ram Das ==
 +
 
 +
Khalsa ji
 +
Many thanks for the great work that you continue to carry out at SikhiWiki. However, Khalsa ji, I understand why you use the plural to refer to the Guru but unfortunately that make the sentence grammatically incorrect. I know it may sound more respectful to the Punjabi mind but to someone who is educated in English, this would seem very incorrect.
 +
 
 +
I would kindly ask you to kindly bear this in mind as lots of English viewer visit our website and the article should be grammatically correct. Please kindly take this comment into consideration when making changes.
 +
 
 +
Regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 14:29, 8 October 2017 (MDT)
 +
 
 +
 
 +
 
 +
Dear Khalsa Ji, thank you for your feedback, I fully appreciate it. I will go ahead and revert those changes. The only point I would like to mention is that since this is SikhiWiki, it can help show the non-Sikh readers who visit here that Sikhs hold Guru in immense respect, even while writing about them. But I do understand the opposite point of view as well, that it can confuse the reader.   
 +
 
 +
On the same note, I wanted to check your opinion on a couple of related issues that I was thinking about:
 +
 
 +
- Usage of "Ji", "Sri", "Sahib" : Do you think it is okay to attach these 'honorific' words to the names of the Gurus? The uninitiated reader may have some confusion even in this case (e.g., when we write Sri Guru Ramdas Ji, as opposed to Guru Ramdas), but perhaps this confusion would be minor and resolved soon enough when the reader becomes aware of the terminology. Please kindly share your thoughts.
 +
 
 +
- Point-wise introduction versus Paragraph based: I noticed that in many of the pages (especially the ones on the Gurus), parts of the introduction section have been written in a bulleted list form. I somehow felt it is better to convert these to paragraphs, so I have tried to make this change on a few pages in the past several months. But it would be very helpful to have a second opinion on this. So if you have any thoughts on the relative merits of the two approaches, kindly share those as well.
 +
 
 +
Best wishes,
 +
[[User:Voyager|Voyager]] ([[User talk:Voyager|talk]]) 18:18, 8 October 2017 (MDT)
 +
 
 +
 
 +
Dear Khalsa Ji, I have made the suggested changes on Guru Ramdas Ji page (and also on Guru Nanak Dev Ji page, where as well I had recently used plurals). Please review and see if you have any other comments. Your feedback is highly appreciated !.
 +
 
 +
Thank you,
 +
[[User:Voyager|Voyager]] ([[User talk:Voyager|talk]]) 23:29, 8 October 2017 (MDT)
 +
 
 +
==Reply by Hari Singh==
 +
Khalsa ji,
 +
 
 +
Many thanks for your reply and acceptance of the point. I am grateful for your cooperation.
 +
 
 +
'''Use of "honorific" words''':
 +
 
 +
I do not think we need to worry about the use of "honorific" words like  "ji"  "sahib", etc as they help to portray the idea that you mention of the reverence and respect that we have for our Gurus, etc. However, I think we should not use more and more of these words to press the point. I know that in Islam, they say the word "muhammad" (pbuh) sometimes using 5 or 10 superlatives before the name. So these "honorific" words should be used sparingly and just 1 honorific word in the name rather than 2 or 3. Eg: "Guru Ram Das ji" rather than "Sri Guru Ram Das Ji Maharaj"
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Point-wise introduction versus Paragraph based''':
 +
 
 +
I agree with you that it is better to have a paragraph based introduction instead of bullet points. When Sikhiwiki was started some years ago, we quickly created lots of short articles with just the bullet points and then over time added the paragraphs later after reading books and referring to other web pages. 
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Guru Ramdas Ji and  Guru Nanak Dev''' articles:
 +
I have looked at both these articles and they look very good. So please continue the great work that you are doing and please revert back if you have any queries.
 +
 
 +
Keep in [[chardikala]].
 +
 
 +
{{WKWF}},
 +
 
 +
[[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 20:02, 13 October 2017 (MDT)
 +
 
 +
 
 +
 
 +
:: Dear Khalsa Ji, thanks a lot for your detailed feedback and kind words!
 +
 
 +
:: {{WKWF}} , [[User:Voyager|Voyager]] ([[User talk:Voyager|talk]]) 02:24, 14 October 2017 (MDT)
 +
 
 +
== Caste articles editing ==
 +
 
 +
Khalsa Ji
 +
 
 +
I have blocked the user. Many thanks for raising the alert and for your dedication to improving this website.
 +
 
 +
May Waheguru continue to bless you.
 +
 
 +
[[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 16:12, 24 August 2018 (MDT)

Latest revision as of 22:12, 24 August 2018

Revelation in Sikhism

Khalsa ji

Agreed. Any idea of what should be said? Perhaps you can prepare a paragraph about this point.

Regards, Hari Singhtalk 18:19, 9 November 2015 (CST)


Thank you Khalsa Ji. I will try to write this up. Perhaps we can create a separate article, something titled "Revelation in Sikhism", and refer to that in the main Sikhism article. Or we could just directly edit the Sikhism article. In either case, I will try to write it up based on some scholarly sources I have collected recently.
On an unrelated note, I see that most of the activity here at Sikhiwiki these days is concentrated on caste related articles. Since you have been an editor and administrator here for some time, could you kindly share if the usefulness of these articles has been discussed in the past. I do understand that all such articles clearly specify upfront that these articles are informational only, and Sikhism condemns the caste system. But nonetheless, do these articles deserve a place on "SikhiWiki". Personally, I feel disappointed, that so much effort is being devoted on these articles, rather than on improving core Sikhism related articles.
PS: Kindly do not construe my point as questioning you personally. As I said, I just wanted to get some feedback, since you are a senior administrator.
Kind regards. Voyager (talk) 19:59, 10 November 2015 (CST)

Khalsa Voyager ji,

The articles on Caste were recently worked on by a newcomer 'Sikh-Guy' and as the user seemed to be reducing these articles to a minimum level, I let him get on. However, on close inspection due to an alert by an old devoted user, I notice that there were rude comments about a few castes. I therefore have just reverted all these articles to their pre-'Sikh-Guy' days.

I think I spent 30 minutes just reverting them back to their "original" form. As far as I am concerned, this was no effort at all! SikhiWiki gives information on all terms that are relevant to the Sikhi religion. As these are words used in Sikhi, we have to have some explanation about these terms. Most of these article started small but in time others have added to what was there and made some of the caste article unnecessarily large.

Kind regards, Hari Singhtalk 21:32, 10 November 2015 (CST)

Dear Khalsa Ji,
I have created a page on Revelation in Sikhism. Kindly review and share your views. This is just a starting point, meant to get something out, and I may certainly have made mistakes. The article would also need to be improved.
Regarding the caste pages, I apologize but I could not understand your comment "As these are words used in Sikhi". I believe these caste words are used by the Sikh/Punjabi people, but not in the Sikh religion. In any case, I guess we can discuss this further at a later time.
Regards, Voyager (talk) 02:31, 11 November 2015 (CST)


Editing next to impossible for me

Khalsa Ji

WKWF

I have got your message. I too have a slight issue with this but I can still manage. I will pass this to the technical people and revert back soon.


Many thanks and kind regards,

Hari Singhtalk 16:20, 1 December 2015 (CST)


Thank you for your response, Khalsa Ji. ! Voyager (talk) 14:44, 3 December 2015 (CST)


Pls add noCasteism to some pages

Khalsa Ji

WKWF

{{ nocasteism }}

Done as suggested. Many thanks.


Best regards,

Hari Singhtalk 16:36, 4 December 2015 (CST)

Page Deletion

Khalsa Ji, Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh

Page Bhakti Movement and Sikhism has been deleted.

Unfortunately there is no quick way of highlighting such a page as far as I am aware. I suggest that you just list them in a message as you did with this one but you can group them together if you have more than 1 page.

Kind regards.

Hari Singhtalk 18:16, 9 March 2016 (CST)


Dear Khalsa Ji, Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh

Thank you ! for your recent appreciation on my user page.

Regards Voyager (talk) 11:40, 17 March 2016 (CDT)

Caste articles

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh, Khalsa ji

I agree that these articles are getting excessive editing and this has to stop. I will work on this over the next few days and will protect the pages from further unnecessary attention.

Kind regards, Hari Singhtalk 20:35, 26 April 2016 (CDT)

Thank you Khalsa Ji, for your prompt response. !
Regards,
Voyager (talk) 13:56, 27 April 2016 (CDT)

Recent changes not showing

Khalsa Ji

Many thanks for the message.

I have checked the "Recent changes" entries on my computer and it seems to be working fine. Both when I check the various pages where changes have been made both by me and by also by other users. Can you please check the "preferences" option and particularly the "Recent changes" sub-tab - It should be set as follows:

Recent Changes - Display options
Days to show in recent changes: 30
Number of edits to show by default: 1000
All the "Advanced options" should be left blank.

Please let me know if this helps.

Kind regards,
Hari Singhtalk 20:47, 24 May 2016 (CDT)


Thank you Khalsa Ji, for your kind reply. I have the settings you suggested, but there continues to be some issue. I especially do not see my own edits in the "recent changes". I only hope it does not mean I am missing on some other edits as well. Regards, Voyager (talk) 03:07, 28 May 2016 (CDT)

Bhagat Namdev at the Temple

Khalsa ji,

I agree with your comments on this query however, I think that as Bhagat ji bani is included in the SGGS, it is very likely that where ever bhagat ji went, he would only "... worship the One Immortal God" - He may have gone to a Shiva temple but it is likely to provide a lesson to the sangat at that temple and "set an example". It is like Guru Nanak going to Haridwar and Watering the Crops.

You are doing a great job in supporting this site and your continued help is much appreciated.

Hari Singhtalk 13:36, 2 January 2017 (CST)

Khalsa Ji, thank you for your message. I completely see your point. Maybe we can make some change to the article to clarify this. I will try to do it at some point when I get a chance, and seek your feedback on that. Best regards. Voyager (talk) 22:13, 15 January 2017 (CST)

Guru Ram Das

Khalsa ji Many thanks for the great work that you continue to carry out at SikhiWiki. However, Khalsa ji, I understand why you use the plural to refer to the Guru but unfortunately that make the sentence grammatically incorrect. I know it may sound more respectful to the Punjabi mind but to someone who is educated in English, this would seem very incorrect.

I would kindly ask you to kindly bear this in mind as lots of English viewer visit our website and the article should be grammatically correct. Please kindly take this comment into consideration when making changes.

Regards, Hari Singhtalk 14:29, 8 October 2017 (MDT)


Dear Khalsa Ji, thank you for your feedback, I fully appreciate it. I will go ahead and revert those changes. The only point I would like to mention is that since this is SikhiWiki, it can help show the non-Sikh readers who visit here that Sikhs hold Guru in immense respect, even while writing about them. But I do understand the opposite point of view as well, that it can confuse the reader.

On the same note, I wanted to check your opinion on a couple of related issues that I was thinking about:

- Usage of "Ji", "Sri", "Sahib" : Do you think it is okay to attach these 'honorific' words to the names of the Gurus? The uninitiated reader may have some confusion even in this case (e.g., when we write Sri Guru Ramdas Ji, as opposed to Guru Ramdas), but perhaps this confusion would be minor and resolved soon enough when the reader becomes aware of the terminology. Please kindly share your thoughts.

- Point-wise introduction versus Paragraph based: I noticed that in many of the pages (especially the ones on the Gurus), parts of the introduction section have been written in a bulleted list form. I somehow felt it is better to convert these to paragraphs, so I have tried to make this change on a few pages in the past several months. But it would be very helpful to have a second opinion on this. So if you have any thoughts on the relative merits of the two approaches, kindly share those as well.

Best wishes, Voyager (talk) 18:18, 8 October 2017 (MDT)


Dear Khalsa Ji, I have made the suggested changes on Guru Ramdas Ji page (and also on Guru Nanak Dev Ji page, where as well I had recently used plurals). Please review and see if you have any other comments. Your feedback is highly appreciated !.

Thank you, Voyager (talk) 23:29, 8 October 2017 (MDT)

Reply by Hari Singh

Khalsa ji,

Many thanks for your reply and acceptance of the point. I am grateful for your cooperation.

Use of "honorific" words:

I do not think we need to worry about the use of "honorific" words like "ji" "sahib", etc as they help to portray the idea that you mention of the reverence and respect that we have for our Gurus, etc. However, I think we should not use more and more of these words to press the point. I know that in Islam, they say the word "muhammad" (pbuh) sometimes using 5 or 10 superlatives before the name. So these "honorific" words should be used sparingly and just 1 honorific word in the name rather than 2 or 3. Eg: "Guru Ram Das ji" rather than "Sri Guru Ram Das Ji Maharaj"


Point-wise introduction versus Paragraph based:

I agree with you that it is better to have a paragraph based introduction instead of bullet points. When Sikhiwiki was started some years ago, we quickly created lots of short articles with just the bullet points and then over time added the paragraphs later after reading books and referring to other web pages.


Guru Ramdas Ji and Guru Nanak Dev articles: I have looked at both these articles and they look very good. So please continue the great work that you are doing and please revert back if you have any queries.

Keep in chardikala.

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh,

Hari Singhtalk 20:02, 13 October 2017 (MDT)


Dear Khalsa Ji, thanks a lot for your detailed feedback and kind words!
Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh , Voyager (talk) 02:24, 14 October 2017 (MDT)

Caste articles editing

Khalsa Ji

I have blocked the user. Many thanks for raising the alert and for your dedication to improving this website.

May Waheguru continue to bless you.

Hari Singhtalk 16:12, 24 August 2018 (MDT)