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| Veer ji {{SSA}}
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| Guru dee baksish hah, all is well. I hope sabh apna parvar which vee suchee haan.
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| [[Makindu Sikh Temple]] was built by Sikh workers on the Uganda Railways during the 1900s; there is no known historical link to Guru Nanak's visit to this place. That is not to say that Guru Nanak may not have come here but just that at present there is no known evidence. As the Gurdwara is very blessed, many hundreds of people visit it daily and it has become famous throughout the world, it may give the impression of a direct historical link to Guru Nanak.
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| There is a small tribe/section of local people (Negro ancestry) in various parts of Kenya who wear the turban. I do not know how and why they wear the turban. More research needs to be done into this. I have not come across any direct evidence of Guru's visit to Africa. Without evidence, this is a non-starter as before 1700s the place was extremely dangerous with lots of wild animals and locals entrenched in very ancient cultures.
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| To date, no words associated with the Gurus have been found; no written records have been discovered; no customs (apart from the turban wearing) are found that may link to Sikhi; no langar or sewa traditions. A lot more research needs to be done!
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| Please be very careful as you must have clear evidence before you more forward. Guru dee fateh, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 00:35, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
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| == Template:Charitar morals ==
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| Chotta Veer ji,
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| Malik di kirpa tay aap ji dee assisaa naal, sabh chardikala daah which haan. Aassh kara-da kay app dah ghar Guroo sukh-aa dee bar-kah karda haan, hope all are well. With Guru's blessing, many Gurmat ideas have been floated in the heart and mind; may the Lord give us the love in our hearts; peace in our mind so that we can all together travel in the footsteps of our great Gurus. Maray chotta veer, please listen to this beautiful shabad - [[Saee sundar sohanra]]; sometimes I wonder that without our Gurus we would have stayed lost in the darkness; please tell me what you think.
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| The template is an excellent idea as it will convey to all readers the real reason our father Guru decided to bring this "revolutionary" concept and bani to our attention; a good father always teaches his children about all type of dangers present in the world so that the children do not get trapped. There is lot of trickery and deception in the world these days and the Guru was able to foresee this and so this template will highlight this point very well.
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| Veer ji, as you know this is a very large part of the [[Dasam Granth]] and it will take us a lot of time to cover all the over 400 sections but you have made a great start. I will be working on this bani whenever possible - this is our long term project. I will try and add the moral highlighted by our Guru to this and the other sections that we already have.
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| I found the references from the [http://www.scribd.com/doc/13262747/English-Translation-of-Chritropakhyaan-From-Dasam-Granth-Vol1 English translation] helpful and I think the language is easy so more people will gain from the Bani. I will do this in the next few days. Bhai sahib, studies finish ho-gaeea or not? Rabb rakha, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 01:07, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
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| == Charitar_16 ==
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| Veer ji, {{WKWF}}
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| Many thanks for your message; I have made the changes to [[Charitar_16]] and I hope it looks good enough now; however, I will work on it again after a few days; hopefully I can improve the readability a bit more then.
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| Many thanks for an excellent effort on this project. I must say that I had never understood this [[Bani]] properly before and that my view was a little tarnished by unworthy comments made by some "scholars". Having now worked with you on a few Charitars, I can't understand why there has been so much controversy when the text itself provides a useful tool and deeper understanding for anyone who wants to stay on the path of Dharam.
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| Once we a few more bits straightened, I think we will feature one of these Charitars on the mainpage; What do you think? Do you think the world is ready for this or will it cause too much controversy? Kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 12:47, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
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| == [[charitropakhyan]] ==
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| Veer ji, {{SSA}}
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| Many thanks for the message; as you say, if we work on this bani with Gurmat in mind and with the idea that Guru Sahib has included it for the benefit and for positive discussion about the points raised then we will gain from it otherwise it will just be a complete waste of time.
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| Please be assured that our policy is to keep as close to Gurmat as possible and we will all try our best to keep in mind at all times; also no anti-Dasam Granth attitude will be entertained without fully scrutiny; no one can put whatever they like; proper analysis of the text has to be done.
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| I think the concept of story telling that we see in the tales is appropriate as it is also used in the actual compositions. You have my full support in the project and with Guru's bakksish, we will bring the true essence of this Bani to our readers.
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| We do not want to put the Guru's good image into these tales unless there is conclusive proof; the danger in connecting the Guru sahib with these tales is too great as it will give others reasons to attack our Guru. So unless it is beyond doubt, we should not start on this path. Many prominent writers have gone astray by making this mistake. Behaviour of the Guru's should not be open to debate based on inconclusive association to these tales.
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| Please do give feedback on items that I have included so that I can get some reassurance that there is some agreement or doubt about what has been written. I believe that Guru sahib has included these tales so that:
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| *1. It "breaks the ice" in the appropriate "sangat" in relation to these matters.
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| *2. That mature people feel that they can talk about these things in a serious way.
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| *3. The issues relating to these matters do not get "pushed under the carpet" so that they become a massive problem.
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| *4. These are issues which affect the panth and all key players need to deal with these points.
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| *5. Only by tackling these issues "head on" can the youngster be properly guided in the future.
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| Please continue the good work that you are doing. Regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 17:22, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
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| Veer ji,
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| I think the main article is getting long and so we should put any anti-gurmat points on a different page with a title like "[[Charitropakhyan - Other views]]"
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| I think we are agreed on the Guru's not featuring in these Charitars unless we can show clearly otherwise. I agree that "The Rai" in some of these articles follows Gurmat but in a few he may not; we then will come to a situation where we will need to deal with: "which 'Rai' refers to Gobind and which does not"; it is then too late to say that where the Rai does good is Gobind otherwise it is someone else. So a reference to 'Rai' and 'Anandpur' or other Sikh historical places is not enough; we need to have some conclusive proof that it was the Guru. Just because in some tales the 'Rai' does good is also not enough. if we read too much into the word 'Rai' or other such things, we will create problems for ourselves for the future. We should act very carefully as we are breaking new ground. If we have conclusive proof, then there is no problem.
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| '''Images:''' It would be great to have images for some of the main Charitars; the more the merrier!
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| '''Words not acceptable:''' Veer ji, this is just hypocrisy; today, the world is full of more extreme images and videos; how can people objects to these words which tell us about true stories and what is going on daily in the world? If we do not discuss this then how can we find solutions? Who will deal with these problems if on one wants to discuss them. Veer ji, I think this is just hypocrisy to cover up the real problems that exists in the world. Speaking to Sukhbir Singh today, he tells me that AIDs is reaching 1% of the population in India in the next 5 years; this will be over 1,000,000 deaths per year; South Africa has about 800,000 deaths per year now; so India will overtake the world soon. This problems must be addressed!
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| '''Bachitar Natak:''' Yes, I agree this is another area which we will need to pay attention to soon.
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| Kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 19:00, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
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| ===Further Discussion===
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| '''Anti-article''' Yes that is a very good point; we don't want to promote anti-Dasam Granth view point. Please do as you think fit as you have a better perception of the overall situation in this regard.
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| '''Rai''' ''"For us Rai is King rite now, we will learn more and will come to conclusion ourselves"'' - this I think is the right attitude to have. If we find more later very will deal with it as required.
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| '''Words''' Yes, veer ji, this is absolutely correct - if the doctor refrains from using the right words, then the patient will be doomed; so use of correct language is essential.
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| I look forward to the next development - let's hope we learn something new from this bani and that it helps us to convince others to investigate the world with different view point. Kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 00:47, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
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| == Dasam Granth index and others ==
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| Veer ji,
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| Thank you for your kind words at [[Gurmat view on intoxicants]] talk page; I am most grateful to you for starting this important article.
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| Please have a look at the Dasam Bani at [[Incarnation 24]] which I came across while doing the [[Dasam Granth index]]. The article is not finished but some of the issues are very disturbing; they seem to fit the way the world is going at present. The other thing that I find puzzling is a time line; The Guru does not tell us if this will take 100 years or 1000 years; do you have any more details which we can add at the top of this page? Guru's blessing to you as always; Waheguru mahar karan. [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 13:11, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
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| === Sat Siri Akal ===
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| Veer ji,
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| With Guru's bakshish everything is well; hope the same applies to you and all your family. Sorry to hear about the problems with internet connection; I hope it will improve soon so that you get more certainty about the connection.
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| Many thanks for adding the template and 2 articles on Chobis Avtar 7 and 23; very interesting bani but unfortunately has not been looked at carefully by the panth. I have looked at your additions very quickly but will read them properly over the next few days.
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| As you say, just like other parts of Dasam Granth, one has to view this Bani from a Gurmat point of view and not get entangled in Manmat. It is amazing how in the final part, the Guru has clearly outlined the developments of the world today - people are moving away from "dharam" and accepting wrongly the way of "adharam" as the right path forward.
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| I have taken the Brahm Avtar and Rudar Avtar out of the [[Dasam Granth index]] as I cannot find it at Sridasam website; also as I do not have a paper copy, I am unable to check where this bani appears in the sequence of banis. It would be great to do a detailed index of each Chapter in the Dasam Granth just like the one for the [[Index of Guru Granth Sahib]]. Kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 01:40, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
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| ===Guru Arjan Dev ji's bani===
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| Veer ji, Guru'dee kirpa naal sabh chardikala which hah. Ommeed aap wee sabh Guru dee baksisha day paati hoega. Many thanks for the Bani, I will spent quality sometime on this over the weekend. It is amazing how much one can learn through Gurbani. Aap ji dee bohat bohat maharvaane. I will read both Gurmukhi and English. Many thanks, Chardikala which raana, sabh noo nimrata saaj fateh balownee, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 02:46, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
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| == Charitar 16 ==
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| Veer ji, {{WKWF}}
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| Guru de kirpa-da naal, sabe chardikala-ch vaas raah-han. I have made a start on the article but due to a wedding of a relation this weekend, I will have to finish this in the next few days. The article looks very good; you have done a most excellent work on this; congratulations and well done.
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| It must be one of the best articles on this Bani. I hope many will read and learn from the clear message given by the Guru - how to be stubborn about following the path of Dharam and not to be weak and submit to our passions!
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| Veer ji, real dedication by you to create the graphics and spend many many hours on refining the article; I think this will become a landmark article of the series. Many thanks and kind regards, Guru ang sang rava, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 00:56, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
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| == type faces defaulting ==
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| The illustration for arrow has the type letters over each other, better to rasterize fonts to avoid this problem. [[User:Allenwalla|Allenwalla]] 01:46, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
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| Interesting that the same drawing appears ok on wikipedia.
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| Lucky ji, I did an illustration for your article, to cure the problem with the defaulting fonts. Currently I seem to be getting sleepy as I am falling out of my chair. Please check the writing I added to your page to see if it fits into what you hope to express.
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| Revert if you want or alter as needed. [[User:Allenwalla|Allenwalla]] 07:47, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
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| == Charitar 21 - Is it about the Guru? ==
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| Veer ji,
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| I have read the text with care and I do not think this is about the Guru. My reasons are:
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| 1. '''Learn incantations, charms and magic spells:''' ''"‘The incantation you wanted to learn, has come in my possession. ‘To learn the same you will have to proceed the way I ask.(9)"'' and ''"The monarch said ‘I had come to learn incantation, but the situation is quite contrary (14)"'' - The Guru would not be interested in learning these "incantation"; it is not Gurmat to learn charms or magical spells, etc.
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| 2. '''Reference to "my Guru" and "Guru":''' ''"‘The lady who comes to me to worship me, ‘To me, she is like the daughter of my Guru.’(38)"'' and ''"Since the time I realized the sense of maturity, which my Guru had taught,"'' and also ''"Since the time the Guru has taught me this lesson"'' - This cannot the speech of the Guru referring to his own Guru!
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| 3. '''More Anti Gurmat:''' ''"But, now, if I ravish with you, I will be reborn in a low caste.’(32)"'' and ''"“By relishing another's wife, Moon was blemished."'' - Both these are inconsistent with Gurmat - caste discrimination is something that the Guru would not indulge in and the story about the moon does not appear to follow Gurmat principles either.
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| I hope this makes sense. King regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 03:48, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
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| == What is the truth, can it be known ==
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| cc. to: Sardar Hari Singh ji and Sardar Harpreet Singh ji,
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| We now have at least two articles claiming the sons of Guru Gobind Singh ji were mothered by two different women, this is very confusing - people take written words as truth. Both articles cannot be right.
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| I am now very confused and i am sure such statements confuse many others. It seems to me we need to preface such articles with - a statement - this is what (I, we or whomever believes and why.
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| If the truth cannot be known, it seems best to state there are differing opinions.
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| [[User:Allenwalla|Allenwalla]] 23:15, 30 April 2010 (UTC)
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| [[Mata Jito]] vs. [[Mata Sunder Kaur]]
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| perhaps I am the only one confused by this?
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| == [[Charitar 49]] ==
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| Veer ji, {{SSA}}
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| Guru dee kirpa hah, UK which Gurmat dee wee-char jhora-nal hoe raee hah; Sikh channel TV whalla vee bohot uudham kar raha haan. But in the end personal dedication to bani and its understanding is the final key which unlocks the doors; sangat both personal and cyber via internet helps to known at new avenues and hopefully bring rays of light.
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| In the end, veer ji, it is the love for Gurmat that moves one forward. Aap ji naa, sona udham keeta hah about this bani from Dasam Granth which has not previously been treated in the Gurmat way.
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| I think your friend is right and hopefully with more cooperation from even more Gurmukhs, we will break new ground in this sphere. Guru sahiba-na aapar kirpa keete hah Sikha ta - to bless them "Een garban koh davo patshahi"
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| Veer ji, I will work on this section. Kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 04:16, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
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| == Will ==
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| Sardar ji, will you be adding English translations to the many new pages of Gurmukhi, surely there are other readers who don't read Gurmukhi?
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| Rab Rakha [[User:Allenwalla|Allenwalla]] 01:48, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
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| == BachitarNatak ==
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| Veer ji,
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| Thank you for the message; I am watching the entries with some concern; will let you know soon if it exceeds the limit. We appear to have a small number of such "contributors"! I wonder if this is due to lack of confidence or a way to misguide others? I will keep an open mind for now. Guru mahar karan, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 03:52, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
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| == Bachitar Natak ==
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| Veer ji, {{SSA}}
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| Anything that makes Bani more easier to understand and follow is to be appreciated. Please do collect material on this topic and then we can start the article; do not worry about anti-Sikhi elements as that will not be tolerated; the main reason we are here is to promote the pure form of Sikhi and not to be distracted by other fringe issues. Guru baksish karan gah! [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 23:13, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
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| ==[[Sat Sri Akal]]==
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| How are you Harry? menu ik gal daso, mei pura bachitra natak padya hai, mainu gobind singh ji barey bohot ghat zikr milda hai. How could we say it's an autobiography. In autobiography person tells about himself and much about himself. Par in bachitar natak, Shuruaat vich, he tell about god, then tell about Guru Nanak's arrival and their ancestors, then tell about God's Hukam to him, then in battle of bhangani(tell abt what he is watching and given his description in 4 -5 lines and same continued and end's with praise of god.
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| i mean guru gobind singh barey tan bohot ghat info hai ki is nu autobiography kehna uchit hai? How could we say it an autobiography?.....................Editor
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| == Bachitar Natak: autobiography or not? ==
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| Bhai Sahib ji, {{SSA}}
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| I agree with your analysis that the majority of the text of Bachitar Natak ("BN") is not personally about the Guru himself; much of the text is related to other things. However, all these other things are items that the Guru is closely linked to or connected with. So for example, the Guru only mentions a few lines about himself in the various battles but the battles are an important part of the Guru's life and in all these events the Guru is the principal figure; he was the commander who dictated how the defence and subsequent attack was to be arranged and executed.
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| So, yes most of the text in BN is not about the personal life of the Guru but about events in which he plays a pivotal part; even when writing about the 9 Gurus, it is the background to his establishment as tenth master; it is the history leading up to his Guruship. So whichever way we look at the text, the focal point ends up with final human incarnation of Guru Nanak! All the history about the 9 Gurus; the various battles; the previous life, etc are directly linked to Guru Gobind Singh.
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| So this is a subjective decision but I think the labelling of this bani as "an autobiography" is, in my humble opinion, a reasonable one although as you say there is little personal information about the Guru. These labels are just a memory and learning aid for us and as such they do not change the impact of the text of BN itself.
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| It is to be expected that the Guru would never write a lot about himself as all the Gurus were very humble and recognised the might of the Lord and His Hukam; they never felt comfortable assigning any good deeds to themselves; All good was derived from the Lord and only bad would come from their personal actions - that was the way they portrayed matters although this was not true. We all know the amazing level of spirituality and morality attained by the Gurus - so much so that even today, we continue to learn lessons everyday from their Gurbani!
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| My humble opinion; Rabb Rakha. Kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 20:14, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
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| == Questions ==
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| Bhai Sahib, I see you are on now, how are your studies going?
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| Reading your piece, I am left wondering:
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| Was the place where Guru Nanak met with the Sidhus called Nanak Mata - at the time? Should this read (the place we now call Nanak Mata) or something else?
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| Could you add a translation of Sidh Gosati?
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| ==answers added==
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| Lucky ji, feeling better, a little sleep helps, I found the answers here and on Sikh net and added them to the page.
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| == Sorry for delay ==
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| Bhai Sahib sorry for the delay in getting back. The older you get the faster life seems to go by. We had two weeks in Sacramento, CA area, got by Yuba city to take snaps of the two large Gurdwaras there. Driving up the highway north, one can see why the Sikhs took to the area (the largest number of Sikhs in the US).
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| There are large hills nearby called the bluffs, that look like pictures I have seen of the Hindu Kush, flat fields that goes for hundreds of miles, two rivers (a doaba) of course and the snow covered mountain ranges to the east, line the horizon.
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| My wife was busy getting ready for her website and the new photoshop course finals, so she stayed on the computer all day, 18 hours or more each day. I was able to do a few projects around my co-mom's house.
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| Back home, last night we had a major lightning storm, with a strike next at mera mom's house. Her tv sets, phones and new heat pump's computer board were fried along with some wiring damage - circuit breakers melted, but no fire!. The flash was awesome, with the sound and flash happening together - no delay.
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| 50 meters away, at our house our electrical - chip controlled items were spared.
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| Hope all is well with you and your family.
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| Rab Rakhaa [[User:Allenwalla|Allenwalla]] 04:14, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
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| == Quran ==
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| Veer ji, {{SSA}}
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| All is well with us here and I hope that life is also treating you kindly. I am a little apprehensive that we have to go into the domain of others to teach about Sikh values; it does not seem logical or a sensible step to take. I do not think that any of the Guru's took the view of carrying out an in-depth investigation of the scriptures of others or to criticise the holy writings of others. However, if we are going to bring Gurmat thoughts into obscure writings, I can see some merit in that.
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| Please make a small start and let us see how this develops; please do not make it a big article as I do not want you to spent too much time; please keep it in positive spirit and do not create any "bad feeling" in others. We should only promote Gurmat values and not denigrate the holy writings of others; I don't think that is the way of our Gurus. Raab Rakha; Guru dee fateh, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 01:41, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
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| Veer ji, Sometimes, the text of other religions is not properly understood by us and we may not be reading the correct version in original Arabic, etc; all this brings in lots of weaknesses in tackling such an important task. Also it raises some fundamental questions in my mind: Why did the Gurus who were much wiser than us not deal with the Koran or Vedas or the Bible in this way? Surely, they had more knowledge and vision than any of us?
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| Also, if the Gurus did not do it or ask us to do this sort of exercise, then why should we feel that this is necessary? For these reasons, I feel that we have to be very careful!
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| Remember that the Guru says: ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬ ਕਹਹ ਮਤ ਝੂਠੇ ਝੂਠਾ ਜੋ ਨ ਬਿਚਾਰੈ ॥ bayd katayb kahhu mat jhoothay jhoothaa jo na bichaarai. Do not say that the Vedas, the Bible and the Koran are false. Those who do not contemplate them are false.
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| I will leave it to you to decide but it is very important that we stay within the limits set by the Guru. Guru bakshish karan, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 04:25, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
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| == Qur'an ==
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| Bhai Sahib ji, I added, made some modifications including adding a coloured page of the Qur'an. I think that the section on Gurbani is a little unclear and could use additional work.
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| The Jews, Christians and Musalmen see God has a being of form and substance, since Sikhs see God as being formless hard to imagine him writing words, but I have never read any claim of God doing that by the Musalmen. I have often heard of Muslim claims that the Qur'an was God's words. That not even a sentence could be altered, hence Muslims in Pakistan who can recite it, read the words, but do not understand it. This makes for many differing interpretations, depending on the Mulana one listens too. I can read French and Italian, but I understand little of it.
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| The whole protestant movement was a rebellion against the Catholic Church and its priests who fattened themselves, selling indulgences to the wealthy.
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| Please check the article.
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| Rab Rakha, [[User:Allenwalla|Allenwalla]] 02:47, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
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| == Point the way ==
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| Sardar ji, While I haven't read the whole Qur'an, Guru Granth Sahib or the Bible, I have read a good deal of each. Which part of the Ganth are you talking about - Four types of Bani? Please provide a specific reference.
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| Regards [[User:Allenwalla|Allenwalla]] 13:27, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
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| == How to understand the deeper meanings of these other holy scripts ==
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| Veer ji, {{SSA}}
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| Many thanks for a challenging dialogue. This is a subject which is very delicate and so we have to be very careful. I think we have so much in the holy Granth that we need to explore and expand that we do not have to be too involved in the Granths of others; the position could be very dangerous. Also, I am very influenced by tuks in the Granth Sahib like this one:
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| {{tuk|1083|46491|'''ਕਰਾਣ ਕਤੇਬ ਦਿਲ ਮਾਹਿ ਕਮਾਹੀ ॥''' ਦਸ ਅਉਰਾਤ ਰਖਹ ਬਦ ਰਾਹੀ ॥ ਪੰਚ ਮਰਦ ਸਿਦਕਿ ਲੇ ਬਾਧਹ ਖੈਰਿ ਸਬੂਰੀ ਕਬੂਲ ਪਰਾ ॥੪॥
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| |Kurĝṇ kaṯeb ḝil mĝhi kamĝhī. Ḏas a▫urĝṯ rakẖahu baḝ rĝhī. Pancẖ maraḝ siḝak le bĝḝẖhu kẖair sabūrī kabūl parĝ. (4)
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| |'''Practice within your heart the teachings of the Koran and the Bible;'''
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| restrain the ten sensory organs from straying into evil.
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| Tie up the five demons of desire with faith, charity and contentment, and you shall be acceptable. (4)}}
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| Here the fifth Guru tells us in the holy Granth that: "Koran kateb dil mah kamaee!" literally "Earn the Koran and Bible in your heart!" So how can we walk a path where we criticise these holy books when the Gurus say such noble things regarding them. The Guru tell us to "earn the Koran and Bible in your heart" and we go about saying bad things about these holy books - this appears to go against the stand taken by our Guru!
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| Please excuse me if I have said any thing wrong but that is what I understand to the position of Gurbani. May be - I have got this wrong? [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 01:12, 16 July 2010 (UTC)
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| == Kesh ==
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| Lucky ji, coming across the page on kesh that Sarbjeet had started it seemed to be his view , rather than a page that a new person reading this site would come away knowing the definition of Keshdhari. So I moved his comments to the talk page and added a very brief definition to the page.
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| I saw that you had added a comment as well - so I added more info to the page itself - based on your comments. Please read and alter the page to see if it is accurate. Mention of the 5Ks and the Khalsa (how this came to be might helf further develop the page, if you have time.
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| Raab Rakhaa, [[User:Allenwalla|Allenwalla]] 05:10, 16 July 2010 (UTC)
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| == criticize not! then go ahead ==
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| Veer ji, {{SSA}}
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| I believe there may be some point that you wish to make regarding the Koran and other holy scripture and I have made my views clear; please do the article as it may bring forward some aspects of Gurmat that we have not seen before. Kind regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 21:53, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
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| == Onkar deleter blocked ==
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| Veer ji,
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| Thanks for the message; the article "deleter" has been blocked. I look forward to the different interpretation of Koran and other holy text in line with Gurmat. Many thanks, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 11:04, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
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| == Yes veer ji ==
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| Yes veer ji,uploading them soon,browsing thru mobile
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| == Brahm-Gyani ==
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| Veer ji, {{SSA}}
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| Thank you; all is well here. Hope with Guru's bakshish everyone is in chardikala in Punjab.
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| Basic translations:
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| *1. MANN - pride or ego
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| *2. CHITT - not sure about this one - do you mean CHEENT or CHEET {{sdd|ਚਿਤ}} - Mind, understanding
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| *3. ATMA - Soul
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| *4. PARATMA - God - the supreme soul
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| *5. VIKAR - {{sdd|ਵਿਕਾਰ}} - Evil, sin, defect, immortal act
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| *6. ICHAA - {{sdd|ਇਛਾ}} - Desire, wish, will
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| *7. [[Hukam|HUKAM]] - God's command
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| Conscious mind is the part that we have direct awareness about while the sub-conscious mind works in the background.
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| I think understanding of Gurmukhi will give you with the last 10% of the meaning of the holy Granth but 90% can be understood from a translation.
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| A lot of the words you have given do not have good single word translation in English. I will try and do a small article for each of these words. Raab rakha, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 04:35, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
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| ----
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| *4. PARATMA - {{sdd|ਪਰਾਤਮਾ}}- Please see link [http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AA%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%A4%E0%A8%AE%E0%A8%BE here]- God - the supreme soul
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| ===SGGS Gurmukhi-Gurmukhi Dictionary===
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| ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ, ਪਾਰਬਰਹਮ।
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| ===SGGS Gurmukhi-English Dictionary===
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| P. n. The Supreme Soul i.e. God
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| SGGS Gurmukhi-English Data provided by Harjinder Singh Gill, Santa Monica, CA, USA.
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| ===Mahan Kosh Encyclopedia===
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| ਸੰ. परातढ़मन. {ਸੰਗਯਾ}. ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ. ਪਾਰਬਰਹਮ. "ਆਤਮ ਚੀਨਿ ਪਰਾਤਮ ਚੀਨਹ". (ਮਾਰੂ ਸੋਲਹੇ ਮਃ ੧) "ਆਤਮਾ ਪਰਾਤਮਾ ਝਕੋ ਕਰੈ". (ਧਨਾ ਮਃ ੧) ਆਤਮਾ ਜੀਵ. ਪਰਾਤਮਾ ਬਰਹਮ.
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| Mahan Kosh data provided by Bhai Baljinder Singh (RaraSahib Wale); See http://www.ik13.com
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| Veer ji, What do you think the word means? Please check out the link. Guru rakhara. [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 22:45, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
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| == Wah, wah, wah ==
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| Thanks Sardarji, your response is so much more alive and understandable. What's up? Add this back in the page and all your points can be understood.
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| Thanks, [[User:Allenwalla|Allenwalla]] 14:58, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
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| == Thanks for your comments ==
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| Veer ji, this difference has been clear to me for many years, reading the Granth how could anyone think differently? Mostly I think the problems are in translation.
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| Sometimes it seems that some in Punjab are not very clear on this. Let others believe and practice their own religion in their own way. Musalmen believe in the 'Punishment of the Grave' and though they say there is only one God, they believe in evil gins that cause men to do evil. Who created the Jinns?
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| The Shias (12vers) most Iranians) believe in an Imam who disappeared as a child, but is still alive and will return again one day. Other Muslims seem to be trying to kill all the Shias.
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| All Christians believe in one God, but some see Jesus as God and others see Jesus as God's son sent to Earth. Some even believe in worshiping God while they dance around holding rattle snakes (our version of the Cobra) - when they get bitten and die, they say they didn't have faith.
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| Their beliefs are none of my business, the Khalsa was created to provide protection for those people, when attacked, not to attack or mock their religion. Do I have this wrong?
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| Raab Rakhaa, [[User:Allenwalla|Allenwalla]] 12:48, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
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| == Professor ==
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| Veer ji, {{SSA}}
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| The word 'khalsa' is not a copyright of anyone - any person can use this word in their name or elsewhere - it is up to the individual if he or she wants to use this word or not. The origin of the word [[Khalsa]] lies in Arabic and it is a word that probably has been used before Guru Gobind Singh dedicated it to the Amritdhari Sikhs.
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| We cannot force someone not to use this word or remove it if they have included it in their name - we are a source of true and correct facts and so we cannot just remove it from someone's name. Anyone can use this word even if they are not Sikhs! It is a word in the public domain - free for anyone to use.
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| There is lot of controversy about what the Professor has said - please give me the facts as I do not agree with some of the allegations as they appear to be fabricated; some of the allegations have been denied by the professor - surely he should know what he said.
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| Veer ji, he is a person who was the [[Jathedar]] of the Akal Takhat, surely he has some calibre and substance. Further, he has promoted Sikhi all his life - does this have no value?
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| From what I have read, he says that the Dasam Granth should not be given the same high prominence as the Guru Granth Sahib - ie. it should not be treated as a 'Guru'. Well, I think this is right and I agree with this statement.
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| Further, he said that he reported to the Akal Takhat as required but was asked to report to a small side office - Why? Only the Akal Takhat is and has been recognised by the Sikhs - not any other office designated by SGPC or any other authority. Also, all previous "hearings" of the Akal Takhat have been in "public" - who has given the Akal Takhat authority to change this format initiated by Guru Hargobind?
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| It is duty of all Sikhs to be proactive and just about treatment of all - where is the justice in this case? Veer ji, we cannot act with blinkers - that is not what the Gurus taught us - we have to learn to see right from wrong no matter if it done in the name of the Akal Takhat!
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| Where does he say he is against the Amrit ceremony - please provide me with a link.
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| Majority of this article was written pre Dec 2009; why should we change these facts that have been on the page for so long? Surely those previous historical facts remain true now.
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| Veer ji, the facts are that he is a 'free' Khalsa living in Canada with all the rights that Canada can provide.
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| If he does not understand Dasam Granth then that is a shame but not a reason to 'ban' a person or do anything against him. He understand the Guru Granth Sahib - that is our Guru; isn't that more important. He has produced many CDs and cassettes about Sikhi - probably sold in millions - surely that is relevant and noteworthy?
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| We need to focus on facts and not on rumours and political bias of the authorities; if we fail to understand this and take appropriate steps then we will find that Sikhi in Punjab will be doomed! It is already in a very bad shape with millions cutting their kesh and taking to smoking and drugs. We have to understand and connect with the message of the Guru and forget the war of words of the politicians who are also the jathedars and very distant from the Guru.
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| Bhul chuk maaf, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 22:54, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
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| == GHAT GHAT not KANN KANN ==
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| Veer ji,, I am unfamiliar with GHAT GHAT not KANN KANN
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| GHAT GHAT =
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| KANN KANN=
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| Lucky ji, I saw the movie ''Rocket Singh'' today - have you seen the movie?
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| == film ==
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| Veer ji the whole title is ''Rocket Singh: Salesman of the Year''. Thought it has no Sikhs in titles or production, the Star playing a Sikh does go off course doing some shady things, but his service to others, keeping his word, refusing to play the bribe game, making a profit but not robbing people, …well not to give the whole plot away. There are probably scenes that will upset many Sikhs.
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| The Sardarji humor, seemingly the butt of most jokes is certainly tiring. But a Hindu of a lower varna is treated badly as well, but he comes out roaring as well.
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| At one point when the 'Sikh' star tells another worker (whose mind is in the gutter) to have respect for the woman star, very strongly terms, i was moved.
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| Dance scenes are logical, not the usual changes of costumes and locations in the same scene.
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| Perhaps you can add it in the appropriate section on your movie page.
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| == Khan comments ==
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| Please check Sajid Khan talk. also see if the article should be re verted
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| [[User:Allenwalla|Allenwalla]] 13:06, 2 August 2010 (EDT)
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| == Sajid Khan questions Sikh Tradition ==
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| Veer ji,
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| Excellent news item - thanks for bringing this to our attention. Guru rakha, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]<sup>[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]</sup> 18:42, 2 August 2010 (EDT)
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| == Help ==
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| Bhai Sahib, can you help with questions [[Talk:Gurudwara Amb Sahib]] [[User:Allenwalla|Allenwalla]] 14:16, 16 August 2010 (EDT)
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| == Please ==
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| Bhai Sahib ji, I also wish you would post your photographs on the Google Earth site as it is almost empty. I can look at any of the homes i have lived in, even my parent's first home, on the site as a google truck/s has/have driven almost every street of America, London, Paris ect. But most of the Punjab is empty, you could ad a lot.
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| Rab Rakha, [[User:Allenwalla|Allenwalla]] 17:47, 16 August 2010 (EDT)
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