EATING

SGGS quotations ONLY

Please note that all statements on this article SGGS on Meat MUST be supported by tuks from SGGS or other historical records or sources otherwise the added material will be instantly removed. If you continue to misuse the edit facility, you will be barred from making changes. --Hari Singh 16:12, 27 July 2006 (CDT)

"gaibaan haivaan haraam kustanee murdaar bakhoraa-ay" AND "murdar"

The above line says "Haraam" (impure) to which the opposite is "Halaal"(pure). "Murdar" does not mean kill, as in refrence to animals. Murdar is only used in refrences to human death. I think this lines with refrence to this and diet should be removed from this page. (posted by NeutralObserver on 5 August 2006 at 12:45)

Reply by HS to NeutralObserver

Dear NeutralObserver,

Many thanks for your valued contribution. I have added the link to the Shabad so we all know what we are talking about.

I agree with your observation that "haraam" is almost "impure" although I would have said forbidden, sinful and that this is opposite to "halal" which in one context does mean pure/legal but it can nowadays also mean "killed /slaughtered" subject to the muslim way.

I have carried out a search via Srigranth.org and 2 dictionaries for the word Murdaa and Murdaar. I list my results below. I am sorry that this does not appear to support your view that a Murdaa only refers to a human dead body. Unfortunately, it appears to support the view that a Murdaa is any dead body

Please note the translation of the word "murdaar" from

• 1 Srigranth.org
• 2 Dictionary of Guru Granth Sahib by Surinder Singh Kohli
• 3 Punjabi - English English - Punjabi Dictionary by Krishan Kumar Goswami

• from 1: SGGS Gurmukhi-Gurmukhi Dictionary: ਲੋਥ ਤ੝ਲ ਅਵਿਤਰ ਵਸਤ, ਹਰਾਮ

• from 1 & 2 (p233): SGGS Gurmukhi-English Dictionary: Per. n. Corpse, dead body, corrion

SGGS Gurmukhi-English Data provided by Harjinder Singh Gill, Santa Monica, CA, USA.

• from 1: English Translation: Dead. Exhumation.

• from 3 (p286): Murdaa - Corpse, dead body, carcass, Lifeless, Deceased

Murdaar Lifeless, dead

• from 1: Mahan Kosh Encyclopedia ਫ਼ਾ. __ ਲੋਥ. ਸ਼ਵ. ਪ੝ਰਾਣ ਰਹਿਤ ਦੇਹ। ੨. ਸ੝ਵਸਤਕਾਰ ਅਤੇ ਸ਼ੂਰਵੀਰਤਾ ਰਹਿਤ. “ਅੰਧੀ ਰਯਤਿ ਗਿਆਨ ਵਿਹੂਣੀ ਭਾਹਿ ਭਰੇ ਮ੝ਰਦਾਰ੝”. (ਵਾਰ ਆਸਾ) ਭੋਹ (ਭੂਸੇ) ਨਾਲ ਭਰੀਆਂ ਲੇਖਾਂ। ੩. ਭਾਵ ਮ੝ਰਦਾਰ ਤੱਲ ਅਪਵਿਤ੝ਰ ਚੀਜ਼. ਧਰਮ ਅਨ੝ਸਾਰ ਨਾ ਖਾਣ ਯੋਗ੝ਯ. ਹਰਾਮ. “ਕੂੜ੝ ਬੋਲਿ ਮ੝ਰਦਾਰ੝ ਖਾਇ”. (ਮਃ ੧. ਵਾਰ ਮਾਝ) “ਦ੝ਨੀਆ ਮ੝ਰਦਾਰਖ੝ਰਦਨੀ”. (ਤਿਲੰ ਮਃ ੫) “ਠਗਿ ਖਾਧਾ ਮ੝ਰਦਾਰ੝”. (ਸ੝ਰੀ ਮਃ ੧).

Mahan Kosh data provided by Bhai Baljinder Singh (RaraSahib Wale); See http://www.ik13.com

Please refer to the Shabad given below and see what you think? - Only 2 lines quoted, but please click on the link to see the whole of the Shabad. Please give me your view of each lines.

I sorry that at present your evidence does not support warranting a change. Could you please explain further why you feel that this Shabad should not be under this section. I will be much obliged if you could explain to me exactly what message this Shabad conveys to you.

I appreciate your help and I hope we will come to an amicable understanding on this matter and that our difference here however large will not distract us from pursuing the higher goal of promoting Sikh values globally. Many thanks for your time and continued interest and support of the site. --Hari Singh 11:00, 5 August 2006 (CDT)

The Spirit Of The Shabad

The spirit of the shabad does not warrant itself in these cases to narrowly mean issue surrounding meat. If you wish to see what Guru Nanak's view then you should quote his shabad. I am sure you know which one I mean. -- NeutralObserver 09:44, 6 August 2006

Reply to "Spirit of the Shabad" by HS

I am all for supporting you in awakening the spirit of all Shabads in the SGGS and please accept that I do not want to narrow the meaning of Gurbani – My prime aim is foremost to learn the real meaning of each tuk of Gurbani – First at a "syntax" level and then moral level and ultimately at the spiritual level.

Please feel free to quote any Shabad that you wish as it can only be a help to the discussion – I am not sure which Shabad you mean, please give me the page number and I am sure I will see what you mean.

I hope you will accept that I am as keen as anyone else to learn the deeper meaning of the Guru's message but feel that it can only be done with a frank, open and unflustered positions on this issue. What I mean is that the fact that I don't eat meat now and someone else may eat meat, should not have an overriding impact on what we say; how we research a subject; what we present in a discussion; and our general attitude to how we say things, etc. Let us be frank and completely open and I am sure that the Guru will then guide us to the correct path.

If we are entrenched in our positions then that is Manmat – Let us together explore what our Gurus have said and then see if we can or cannot follow His word. We all accept that to keep Hair; not drink alcohol; not smoke; etc is Gurmat. Do we all follow these teachings – Well, obviously not. So, in the end why should someone who cannot follow these clear guidance be discussing this matter about whether meat is allowed or not allowed if they have not got the guts to follow all already clearly established issues that are totally accepted by the Panth.

Lets only discuss this matter if on coming to a conclusion, the participants will without fail follow the outcome of the discussion or have the intention of following the result of the discussion. If this is not so, then what is the point of the discussion? We have to have a balance between knowledge for the sake of knowledge and the principles to Gurmat. It is our duty to follow the word to the Guru once we know clearly what it is! --Hari Singh 16:16, 6 August 2006 (CDT)