Talk:Sikhi on masturbating
I have some problems with this article......but before you proceed to read my post please understand that i am neutral on the topic of masturbation
Below is post by Mr. 8guru8
1. It says "What science says".....where as the views written under it are totally individual views that have been taken from another site .....which have in turn been posted there by an anonymous blogger..... in fact i have been searching the net on this topic for some time now....and i haven't come across any reliable sources or any doctor or any scientist in that case who say that masturbation is bad for health........what i want to say is that sikhiwiki is currently and probably will for long be the biggest source of information on Sikhism for a common person and unauthentic posts on topics like these can give a very wrong idea and information to countless people who refer to sikhiwiki for advise and information on Sikhism....it can also lead people to believe that sikhiwiki can not be taken as an authentic source for information.....i mean the article was last edited (on july 2010) almost 2 years back and only god knows how many people have referred to this and got the wrong idea....
2. Some suggestions given on how to control the urge of masturbation are very adverse in nature and I personally don't feel that they are the right thing to do at all times....eg:- number 5 in "Self-Control Guidance for Masturbation".....and a lot of them in "Suggestions" including number 7 which says that you should force yourself to being friendly....which is a very bad idea if you are depressed.....it can worsen your depression...... in fact the the last point of "Self-Control Guidance for Masturbation" contradicts the first point of "Suggestions".....
Now i know that absolutely anyone can edit an article on sikhiwikii....and you may also suggest me to do so....but the thing is that....this is a topic on which people have minimum knowledge and endless views.....so even if someone removes the wrong content there will surely be someone who is dumb enough to try and impose his or her views........
According to me this is a very delicate topic on which there is lack of appropriate information and endless views......so i think sikhiwiki must go out of the way for this topic and hold a discussion with its most active & top account holders on what would be appropriate to be put on the the page.... User:8guru8
Below is post by Mr. Harpreet Singh
Don't write anything neutral on Sikhiwiki and always ask Administrator before every changes.
The whole article is taken from link -> http://www.wgs.clahs.vt.edu/course/sub/masturbation.html
and again Gurbani quoted here in article is based on English translator by just typing word "SEX".
Mr. 8GURU8 , could you take out the points from this article which have less research based on science and religion from this article and bring it before our respected Admins?
(HarpreetSingh 02:02, 15 April 2012 (CDT))
Below is post by Mr. 8guru8
Mr. Harpreet Singh
Well I guess discussing with the admin is fair enough....
Now as as for the points that I think should not be on this page....it is mainly the paragraph that is written under "What since says"...because that is definitely not what science says...and i feel it is misleading...and i think i have made my point on it in the above post
other than that....point number 1 on "Suggestions" in a way contradicts point number 7 in "Self-Control Guidance for Masturbation"....if it doesn't.....i think it must be explained more elaborately... Number 6 in "Suggestions"...i think you would like to change the word church service to something else like service at god's house or something...just to make it more general in nature Number 7 in "Suggestions"...it must be removed or modified for the reasons stated in the above post Number 10 in "Suggestions"...a line stating that...pray to god first for the strength and to help you through the process...should be very helpful for people... Number 16 in "Suggestions"...i don't think that this idea helps a lot... Number 17 in "Suggestions"...it really isn't possible for people to avoid others and stuff like that at all times...it must be stated that in case you end up in a situation like that....take the name of god and ask for strength...and that you must make yourself strong enough not to be affected by people and situations that pull you towards kaam... Number 18 in "Suggestions"...its a little wrong to hold on to something respectful when you are going to go to sleep.... because no one knows how they react after they are asleep...the book or the thing that you are holding out of your respect to it may slip and fall down on the ground...or it might come under you...or may even injure you.. Number 19 in "Suggestions"...simply a very aggressive approach towards self control...i mean tying hands seriously..??...i feel it somehow falls under self torture...if your case is that severe you must go for more praying...and reciting verses until you fall asleep....
These are the things that i felt are wrong or must be modified in the article
Now that done I have a request for you....under "Suggestions"....i feel more points like the point number 11 must be put up herde....so if you find any more such points...please do put them up here....
Below is post by Hari Singh
Dear 8guru8
Many thanks for your very constructive comments. I have taken this opportunity to make a few changes to the section dealing with Gurbani but have not addressed the issues that you have highlighted.
I would strongly suggest and encourage you to make changes to some of the points that you have mentioned in your post yourself as you appear to have done some research on this matter. You will understand that for a Wiki to function properly, we need many contributors and so please take the plunge and begin your contribution to the Guru's mission.
If you have any difficulties, there are several of us who will be able to help you. Many thanks and kind regards, Hari Singhtalk 20:03, 15 April 2012 (CDT)
Below is post by Mr. Harpreet Singh
In Above post, Administrator Mr. Hari Singh ji has given you permission to change the article. but after changing do ask him once on his talk page that what changes you did are appropriate or not. And do give proper link to your saying source, else your writings will be marked as citation needed and removed in few days. The facts you write should support gurbani(Teekas of prof sahib singh, Bhai Manmohan Singh,Fareedkoti teeka, Dr. Sant Singh Khalsa, Yogi Harbhajan Singh, Nishkam Sewa Jatha or any other) and not necessary support scientific, medical etc. studies.
Happy Sikhiwiki Editing(HarpreetSingh 10:30, 16 April 2012 (CDT))
Below is post by Mr. 8guru8
I really appreciate your support and thank you for giving me the opportunity to edit your article. However I am a new user and I don’t have any experience with sikhiwiki at all. Hence, it is my humble request that you yourself do changes to the text. Since this is your article and you have much better experience with sikhiwiki and posting things here, I feel it would only be better if you yourself could change the text. I understand that you want to promote me to get more involved with sikhiwiki but i feel i currently lack the proper experience to actually edit articles. However, if i come across anything that i feel would benefit this article and has an authentic source i will make sure to bring it to your notice. Also, i am extremely sorry for the late reply.
Below post is for Mr. 8Guru8
Mr. 8guru8
I have less knowledge about this aspect. What i know/studied is just Sikhism, neither denouncing nor encouraging such practice. Medically it is not proven unfit, few theories came but all fail.
Different facts of life
- To get induldge more into such activity is just waste of time. i think it also happen in adult groups too incl adolesence.
- When more attention and inclination is toward things, pornographic content, habit of watching indecent dressed stranger girls with Lakk 28 and 47 Weight with Big Breasts, talking rubbish about sex, keeping mobile applications related to it etc it happens more.
- What about Gandhi's Brahmcharya experiments of sleeping nakes with ladies and not having sex, isn't cool control on himself ? Should sikh be like that COntrol (not saying of sleeping naked)
- What do you think Sikh's attitude towards "Having sex wearing Condom"? Isn't it unnatural too and Sikhism against it too? (FYI Condom were discovered much before Baba Nanak's Times.)
- If sikh stops sex then Grehsath Concept will wash away. Guru Hargobind having five kid's minimum five times sex and Guru Gobind Singh ji had at least four times (i don't consider virgin births in Sikhism :p)
I am writing these things in general. Such questions rise among many people (youth), one of my friend called me and said guru hargobind had five kids so he was KAMUKH. This is lack of understanding of this topic. Sex is consider as FIlthy activity the other it consider as pious too. All Bhagats came out of it.
So better you write about it, as you questioned, so you can handle all this.
Or our administrator HARI SINGH, as he is elder and go through such things and studying Gurbani. He will handle such things (HarpreetSingh 00:15, 22 April 2012 (CDT))
Below post is for Mr. Harpreet Singh
I understand that there are a lot of questions and very less answers when it come to talking about kaam. Have you heard vayakhays of Gayani Maskeen Singh on kaam and dasam granth. They are there on YouTube and according to what i know, it seems that dasam granth talks about kaam in a relatively detailed manner.
Below is post for 8guru8
- All answers are available but Vaishno-Bairagi intrusion in Sikhism will not help to accept any answer.
- If we say neither denouncing(vaishno-Bairagi type sikhs will shout), if we say not encouraging(logical sikhs will shout). So we need to walk both way.
- I have heard viakhia of Giani Sant Singh Maskeen on Kaam. Dasam Granth have many stories which are totally based on this subject but few people call the writer a Lusty person as they think their GURU(whom they call Pooran) cannot speak about Kaam in detailed manner.
(HarpreetSingh 00:38, 25 April 2012 (CDT))
