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' Respectfully Sikhwiki team, I am wondering why it is necessary to mention "Jat" or any caste at all when giving biographical details of a Khalsa. For a Amrit Shakt Khalsa - the Jatt was sacrificed, the previous life was sort of deleted and Amrit was given. And, Guru Sahib ji said it is "manmat" to mention/ask a Khalsa's previous Cast. ===Reply=== Dear Khalsa ji, Many thanks for a very valid and understandable question. However, the fact that the caste of a person is mentioned does not necessarily go against the philosophy of our Gurus just like mentioning whether a person is male or female does not portray gender discrimination. The person's gender or his or her caste are facts which cannot be changed. However, when we discriminate a person due to their gender or caste that is when we overstep the mark and move away from Sikh values. The "trade" or caste of the original Panj pyare is well rehearsed in history and these were published during the time of the 10th Guru. Similarly, the "caste" of [[Bhai Mardana]] is well documented since the time of [[Guru Nanak]]. No where has the Guru asked the history writers to erase Bhai Mardana's background; nor have the rest of the Guru's done the same. With respect we should not discriminate if one is of a different caste or gender but have equal respect for all. That I believe is the message of Sikhi - Its not do "a cover up" of the facts but to openly accept our different castes, people of different gender, colour, etc. Regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]^{[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]} 13:11, 5 May 2015 (CDT) == Akali Phulla Singh - mention of caste systems == Thanks for your reply on Akali Phula Singh Page. I don't know how to use Talk: and how to add a reply, it asked me to start a new sub-topic. I'm trying to decipher - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Using_talk_pages I don't wish to mess up the page with new responses and replies. Apologies in advance. My question requires a deeper discussion. What you have mentioned is right, caste of Bhai Mardana is well documented and so as of others. But my dilemma is, during Guru Sahib's time, I'm sure there was no such thing as "Jatt" Khalsa or Rajput Khalsa, the case we often see today. During Gur Sahibs time people usually talked about the transformation through power of Amrit. But, these days fighting skills are usually associated with caste (Jatt da dera Gandasay te, Rajput da Bahu Ball Talwar etc etc.) Even after Amrit, people keep pretending to be Jat or Rajput or Ramgharia. These different caste, they never manage to exist on a common platform, hence we see Ramgharia Gurudawara, or Vehray walian da Gurudawara, or Budha Dal practising Chautha Paud pratha. Whenever a historical figure is mentioned in Katha or an article like this one, people usually forget the true message, or what Sewa Akali Phulla Singh Ji did, how many hours did he meditate, but all they can focus is on his Jatt background. I have read many forums where people claim to Jat or Mazhabi Sikhs and each claiming to be the real Sikhs. Hence such descriptions on wiki articles give basis to a conflict and solidifies people's resolve, though unintentional. We have to evolve a new mechanism ourselves (or by consulting various Sikh Jathebandis), come up with a solution to mention caste if necessary while keeping it out of focus. is it possible for you to add a short description and note. Say "Akali Phulla Singh was born Jatt, but after baptisation he was given last name as Khalsa, and readers should note that it is against principles of Sikhi to remember Akali Phulla singh as Jat. Something like that?? You mentioned, we must openly accept our different castes? Kindly explain, you mean, we must continue to accept the existence of caste system in Sikhism? must continue to be identified by our different castes? and encourage caste systems while being A Khalsa? Apologies in advance if I understood incorrectly. ********************* Many thanks for a very valid and understandable question. However, the fact that the caste of a person is mentioned does not necessarily go against the philosophy of our Gurus just like mentioning whether a person is male or female does not portray gender discrimination. The person's gender or his or her caste are facts which cannot be changed. However, when we discriminate a person due to their gender or caste that is when we overstep the mark and move away from Sikh values. The "trade" or caste of the original Panj pyare is well rehearsed in history and these were published during the time of the 10th Guru. Similarly, the "caste" of [[Bhai Mardana]] is well documented since the time of [[Guru Nanak]]. No where has the Guru asked the history writers to erase Bhai Mardana's background; nor have the rest of the Guru's done the same. With respect we should not discriminate if one is of a different caste or gender but have equal respect for all. That I believe is the message of Sikhi - Its not do "a cover up" of the facts but to openly accept our different castes, people of different gender, colour, etc. Regards, [[user:hari singh|Hari Singh]]^{[[User talk:Hari singh|talk]]} 13:11, 5 May 2015 (CDT)'