Talk:Guru Granth Sahib on meat
EATING
SGGS Page 467 Full Shabad |
Unnin Mandy payr nan rakhio......... Darpan Pg0467- |
SGGS quotations ONLY
Please note that all statements on this article SGGS on Meat MUST be supported by tuks from SGGS or other historical records or sources otherwise the added material will be instantly removed. If you continue to misuse the edit facility, you will be barred from making changes. --Hari Singh 16:12, 27 July 2006 (CDT)
"gaibaan haivaan haraam kustanee murdaar bakhoraa-ay" AND "murdar"
SGGS Page 723 Full Shabad |
ਬੰਦੇ ਚਸਮ ਦੀਦੰ ਫਨਾਇ ॥ ਦਨਂ”ੀਆ ਮਰਦਾਰ ਖਰਦਨੀ ਗਾਫਲ ਹਵਾਇ ॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ banday chasam deedaN fanaa-ay. O human being, whatever you can see with your eyes, shall perish. |
The above line says "Haraam" (impure) to which the opposite is "Halaal"(pure). "Murdar" does not mean kill, as in refrence to animals. Murdar is only used in refrences to human death. I think this lines with refrence to this and diet should be removed from this page. (posted by NeutralObserver on 5 August 2006 at 12:45)
Reply by HS to NeutralObserver
Dear NeutralObserver,
Many thanks for your valued contribution. I have added the link to the Shabad so we all know what we are talking about.
I agree with your observation that "haraam" is almost "impure" although I would have said forbidden, sinful and that this is opposite to "halal" which in one context does mean pure/legal but it can nowadays also mean "killed /slaughtered" subject to the muslim way.
I have carried out a search via Srigranth.org and 2 dictionaries for the word Murdaa and Murdaar. I list my results below. I am sorry that this does not appear to support your view that a Murdaa only refers to a human dead body. Unfortunately, it appears to support the view that a Murdaa is any dead body
Please note the translation of the word "murdaar" from
- 1 Srigranth.org
- 2 Dictionary of Guru Granth Sahib by Surinder Singh Kohli
- 3 Punjabi - English English - Punjabi Dictionary by Krishan Kumar Goswami
- from 1: SGGS Gurmukhi-Gurmukhi Dictionary: ਲੋਥ ਤਲ ਅਵਿਤਰ ਵਸਤ, ਹਰਾਮ
- from 1 & 2 (p233): SGGS Gurmukhi-English Dictionary: Per. n. Corpse, dead body, corrion
SGGS Gurmukhi-English Data provided by Harjinder Singh Gill, Santa Monica, CA, USA.
- from 1: English Translation: Dead. Exhumation.
- from 3 (p286): Murdaa - Corpse, dead body, carcass, Lifeless, Deceased
- Murdaar Lifeless, dead
- from 1: Mahan Kosh Encyclopedia ਫ਼ਾ. __ ਲੋਥ. ਸ਼ਵ. ਪਰਾਣ ਰਹਿਤ ਦੇਹ। ੨. ਸਵਸਤਕਾਰ ਅਤੇ ਸ਼ੂਰਵੀਰਤਾ ਰਹਿਤ. “ਅੰਧੀ ਰਯਤਿ ਗਿਆਨ ਵਿਹੂਣੀ ਭਾਹਿ ਭਰੇ ਮਰਦਾਰ”. (ਵਾਰ ਆਸਾ) ਭੋਹ (ਭੂਸੇ) ਨਾਲ ਭਰੀਆਂ ਲੇਖਾਂ। ੩. ਭਾਵ ਮਰਦਾਰ ਤੱਲ ਅਪਵਿਤਰ ਚੀਜ਼. ਧਰਮ ਅਨਸਾਰ ਨਾ ਖਾਣ ਯੋਗਯ. ਹਰਾਮ. “ਕੂੜ ਬੋਲਿ ਮਰਦਾਰ ਖਾਇ”. (ਮਃ ੧. ਵਾਰ ਮਾਝ) “ਦਨੀਆ ਮਰਦਾਰਖਰਦਨੀ”. (ਤਿਲੰ ਮਃ ੫) “ਠਗਿ ਖਾਧਾ ਮਰਦਾਰ”. (ਸਰੀ ਮਃ ੧).
Mahan Kosh data provided by Bhai Baljinder Singh (RaraSahib Wale); See http://www.ik13.com
Please refer to the Shabad given below and see what you think? - Only 2 lines quoted, but please click on the link to see the whole of the Shabad. Please give me your view of each lines.
SGGS Page 141 Full Shabad |
ਹਕ ਪਰਾਇਆ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਉਸ ਸੂਅਰ ਉਸ ਗਾਇ ॥ ਗਰ ਪੀਰ ਹਾਮਾ ਤਾ ਭਰੇ ਜਾ ਮਰਦਾਰ ਨ ਖਾਇ ॥ hak paraa-i-aa naankaa us soo-ar us gaa-ay. gur peer haamaa taa bharay jaa murdaar na khaa-ay.
Our Guru, our Spiritual Guide, stands by us, if we do not eat those carcasses. |
I sorry that at present your evidence does not support warranting a change. Could you please explain further why you feel that this Shabad should not be under this section. I will be much obliged if you could explain to me exactly what message this Shabad conveys to you.
I appreciate your help and I hope we will come to an amicable understanding on this matter and that our difference here however large will not distract us from pursuing the higher goal of promoting Sikh values globally. Many thanks for your time and continued interest and support of the site. --Hari Singh 11:00, 5 August 2006 (CDT)
The Spirit Of The Shabad
The spirit of the shabad does not warrant itself in these cases to narrowly mean issue surrounding meat. If you wish to see what Guru Nanak's view then you should quote his shabad. I am sure you know which one I mean.