User talk:Hpt lucky: Difference between revisions

Veer ji Sat Sri Akal

Guru dee baksish hah, all is well. I hope sabh apna parvar which vee suchee haan.

Makindu Sikh Temple was built by Sikh workers on the Uganda Railways during the 1900s; there is no known historical link to Guru Nanak's visit to this place. That is not to say that Guru Nanak may not have come here but just that at present there is no known evidence. As the Gurdwara is very blessed, many hundreds of people visit it daily and it has become famous throughout the world, it may give the impression of a direct historical link to Guru Nanak.

There is a small tribe/section of local people (Negro ancestry) in various parts of Kenya who wear the turban. I do not know how and why they wear the turban. More research needs to be done into this. I have not come across any direct evidence of Guru's visit to Africa. Without evidence, this is a non-starter as before 1700s the place was extremely dangerous with lots of wild animals and locals entrenched in very ancient cultures.

To date, no words associated with the Gurus have been found; no written records have been discovered; no customs (apart from the turban wearing) are found that may link to Sikhi; no langar or sewa traditions. A lot more research needs to be done!

Please be very careful as you must have clear evidence before you more forward. Guru dee fateh, Hari Singh^talk 00:35, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Template:Charitar morals

Chotta Veer ji,

Malik di kirpa tay aap ji dee assisaa naal, sabh chardikala daah which haan. Aassh kara-da kay app dah ghar Guroo sukh-aa dee bar-kah karda haan, hope all are well. With Guru's blessing, many Gurmat ideas have been floated in the heart and mind; may the Lord give us the love in our hearts; peace in our mind so that we can all together travel in the footsteps of our great Gurus. Maray chotta veer, please listen to this beautiful shabad - Saee sundar sohanra; sometimes I wonder that without our Gurus we would have stayed lost in the darkness; please tell me what you think.

The template is an excellent idea as it will convey to all readers the real reason our father Guru decided to bring this "revolutionary" concept and bani to our attention; a good father always teaches his children about all type of dangers present in the world so that the children do not get trapped. There is lot of trickery and deception in the world these days and the Guru was able to foresee this and so this template will highlight this point very well.

Veer ji, as you know this is a very large part of the Dasam Granth and it will take us a lot of time to cover all the over 400 sections but you have made a great start. I will be working on this bani whenever possible - this is our long term project. I will try and add the moral highlighted by our Guru to this and the other sections that we already have.

I found the references from the English translation helpful and I think the language is easy so more people will gain from the Bani. I will do this in the next few days. Bhai sahib, studies finish ho-gaeea or not? Rabb rakha, Hari Singh^talk 01:07, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Charitar_16

Veer ji, Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh

Many thanks for your message; I have made the changes to Charitar_16 and I hope it looks good enough now; however, I will work on it again after a few days; hopefully I can improve the readability a bit more then.

Many thanks for an excellent effort on this project. I must say that I had never understood this Bani properly before and that my view was a little tarnished by unworthy comments made by some "scholars". Having now worked with you on a few Charitars, I can't understand why there has been so much controversy when the text itself provides a useful tool and deeper understanding for anyone who wants to stay on the path of Dharam.

Once we a few more bits straightened, I think we will feature one of these Charitars on the mainpage; What do you think? Do you think the world is ready for this or will it cause too much controversy? Kind regards, Hari Singh^talk 12:47, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

charitropakhyan

Veer ji, Sat Sri Akal

Many thanks for the message; as you say, if we work on this bani with Gurmat in mind and with the idea that Guru Sahib has included it for the benefit and for positive discussion about the points raised then we will gain from it otherwise it will just be a complete waste of time.

Please be assured that our policy is to keep as close to Gurmat as possible and we will all try our best to keep in mind at all times; also no anti-Dasam Granth attitude will be entertained without fully scrutiny; no one can put whatever they like; proper analysis of the text has to be done.

I think the concept of story telling that we see in the tales is appropriate as it is also used in the actual compositions. You have my full support in the project and with Guru's bakksish, we will bring the true essence of this Bani to our readers.

We do not want to put the Guru's good image into these tales unless there is conclusive proof; the danger in connecting the Guru sahib with these tales is too great as it will give others reasons to attack our Guru. So unless it is beyond doubt, we should not start on this path. Many prominent writers have gone astray by making this mistake. Behaviour of the Guru's should not be open to debate based on inconclusive association to these tales.

Please do give feedback on items that I have included so that I can get some reassurance that there is some agreement or doubt about what has been written. I believe that Guru sahib has included these tales so that:

• 1. It "breaks the ice" in the appropriate "sangat" in relation to these matters.
• 2. That mature people feel that they can talk about these things in a serious way.
• 3. The issues relating to these matters do not get "pushed under the carpet" so that they become a massive problem.
• 4. These are issues which affect the panth and all key players need to deal with these points.
• 5. Only by tackling these issues "head on" can the youngster be properly guided in the future.

Please continue the good work that you are doing. Regards, Hari Singh^talk 17:22, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Veer ji,

I think the main article is getting long and so we should put any anti-gurmat points on a different page with a title like "Charitropakhyan - Other views"

I think we are agreed on the Guru's not featuring in these Charitars unless we can show clearly otherwise. I agree that "The Rai" in some of these articles follows Gurmat but in a few he may not; we then will come to a situation where we will need to deal with: "which 'Rai' refers to Gobind and which does not"; it is then too late to say that where the Rai does good is Gobind otherwise it is someone else. So a reference to 'Rai' and 'Anandpur' or other Sikh historical places is not enough; we need to have some conclusive proof that it was the Guru. Just because in some tales the 'Rai' does good is also not enough. if we read too much into the word 'Rai' or other such things, we will create problems for ourselves for the future. We should act very carefully as we are breaking new ground. If we have conclusive proof, then there is no problem.

Images: It would be great to have images for some of the main Charitars; the more the merrier!

Words not acceptable: Veer ji, this is just hypocrisy; today, the world is full of more extreme images and videos; how can people objects to these words which tell us about true stories and what is going on daily in the world? If we do not discuss this then how can we find solutions? Who will deal with these problems if on one wants to discuss them. Veer ji, I think this is just hypocrisy to cover up the real problems that exists in the world. Speaking to Sukhbir Singh today, he tells me that AIDs is reaching 1% of the population in India in the next 5 years; this will be over 1,000,000 deaths per year; South Africa has about 800,000 deaths per year now; so India will overtake the world soon. This problems must be addressed!

Bachitar Natak: Yes, I agree this is another area which we will need to pay attention to soon. Kind regards, Hari Singh^talk 19:00, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Further Discussion

Anti-article Yes that is a very good point; we don't want to promote anti-Dasam Granth view point. Please do as you think fit as you have a better perception of the overall situation in this regard.

Rai "For us Rai is King rite now, we will learn more and will come to conclusion ourselves" - this I think is the right attitude to have. If we find more later very will deal with it as required.

Words Yes, veer ji, this is absolutely correct - if the doctor refrains from using the right words, then the patient will be doomed; so use of correct language is essential.

I look forward to the next development - let's hope we learn something new from this bani and that it helps us to convince others to investigate the world with different view point. Kind regards, Hari Singh^talk 00:47, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

Dasam Granth index and others

Veer ji,

Thank you for your kind words at Gurmat view on intoxicants‎ talk page; I am most grateful to you for starting this important article.

Please have a look at the Dasam Bani at Incarnation 24‎ which I came across while doing the Dasam Granth index. The article is not finished but some of the issues are very disturbing; they seem to fit the way the world is going at present. The other thing that I find puzzling is a time line; The Guru does not tell us if this will take 100 years or 1000 years; do you have any more details which we can add at the top of this page? Guru's blessing to you as always; Waheguru mahar karan. Hari Singh^talk 13:11, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Sat Siri Akal

Veer ji,

With Guru's bakshish everything is well; hope the same applies to you and all your family. Sorry to hear about the problems with internet connection; I hope it will improve soon so that you get more certainty about the connection.

Many thanks for adding the template and 2 articles on Chobis Avtar 7 and 23; very interesting bani but unfortunately has not been looked at carefully by the panth. I have looked at your additions very quickly but will read them properly over the next few days.

As you say, just like other parts of Dasam Granth, one has to view this Bani from a Gurmat point of view and not get entangled in Manmat. It is amazing how in the final part, the Guru has clearly outlined the developments of the world today - people are moving away from "dharam" and accepting wrongly the way of "adharam" as the right path forward.

I have taken the Brahm Avtar and Rudar Avtar out of the Dasam Granth index as I cannot find it at Sridasam website; also as I do not have a paper copy, I am unable to check where this bani appears in the sequence of banis. It would be great to do a detailed index of each Chapter in the Dasam Granth just like the one for the Index of Guru Granth Sahib. Kind regards, Hari Singh^talk 01:40, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Guru Arjan Dev ji's bani

Veer ji, Guru'dee kirpa naal sabh chardikala which hah. Ommeed aap wee sabh Guru dee baksisha day paati hoega. Many thanks for the Bani, I will spent quality sometime on this over the weekend. It is amazing how much one can learn through Gurbani. Aap ji dee bohat bohat maharvaane. I will read both Gurmukhi and English. Many thanks, Chardikala which raana, sabh noo nimrata saaj fateh balownee, Hari Singh^talk 02:46, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Charitar 16

Veer ji, Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh

Guru de kirpa-da naal, sabe chardikala-ch vaas raah-han. I have made a start on the article but due to a wedding of a relation this weekend, I will have to finish this in the next few days. The article looks very good; you have done a most excellent work on this; congratulations and well done.

It must be one of the best articles on this Bani. I hope many will read and learn from the clear message given by the Guru - how to be stubborn about following the path of Dharam and not to be weak and submit to our passions!

Veer ji, real dedication by you to create the graphics and spend many many hours on refining the article; I think this will become a landmark article of the series. Many thanks and kind regards, Guru ang sang rava, Hari Singh^talk 00:56, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

type faces defaulting

The illustration for arrow has the type letters over each other, better to rasterize fonts to avoid this problem. Allenwalla 01:46, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Interesting that the same drawing appears ok on wikipedia.

Lucky ji, I did an illustration for your article, to cure the problem with the defaulting fonts. Currently I seem to be getting sleepy as I am falling out of my chair. Please check the writing I added to your page to see if it fits into what you hope to express.

Revert if you want or alter as needed. Allenwalla 07:47, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Charitar 21 - Is it about the Guru?

Veer ji,

I have read the text with care and I do not think this is about the Guru. My reasons are:

1. Learn incantations, charms and magic spells: "‘The incantation you wanted to learn, has come in my possession. ‘To learn the same you will have to proceed the way I ask.(9)" and "The monarch said ‘I had come to learn incantation, but the situation is quite contrary (14)" - The Guru would not be interested in learning these "incantation"; it is not Gurmat to learn charms or magical spells, etc.

2. Reference to "my Guru" and "Guru": "‘The lady who comes to me to worship me, ‘To me, she is like the daughter of my Guru.’(38)" and "Since the time I realized the sense of maturity, which my Guru had taught," and also "Since the time the Guru has taught me this lesson" - This cannot the speech of the Guru referring to his own Guru!

3. More Anti Gurmat: "But, now, if I ravish with you, I will be reborn in a low caste.’(32)" and "“By relishing another's wife, Moon was blemished." - Both these are inconsistent with Gurmat - caste discrimination is something that the Guru would not indulge in and the story about the moon does not appear to follow Gurmat principles either.

I hope this makes sense. King regards, Hari Singh^talk 03:48, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

What is the truth, can it be known

cc. to: Sardar Hari Singh ji and Sardar Harpreet Singh ji,

We now have at least two articles claiming the sons of Guru Gobind Singh ji were mothered by two different women, this is very confusing - people take written words as truth. Both articles cannot be right.

I am now very confused and i am sure such statements confuse many others. It seems to me we need to preface such articles with - a statement - this is what (I, we or whomever believes and why.

If the truth cannot be known, it seems best to state there are differing opinions.

Allenwalla 23:15, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

Mata Jito vs. Mata Sunder Kaur

perhaps I am the only one confused by this?

Charitar 49

Veer ji, Sat Sri Akal

Guru dee kirpa hah, UK which Gurmat dee wee-char jhora-nal hoe raee hah; Sikh channel TV whalla vee bohot uudham kar raha haan. But in the end personal dedication to bani and its understanding is the final key which unlocks the doors; sangat both personal and cyber via internet helps to known at new avenues and hopefully bring rays of light.

In the end, veer ji, it is the love for Gurmat that moves one forward. Aap ji naa, sona udham keeta hah about this bani from Dasam Granth which has not previously been treated in the Gurmat way.

I think your friend is right and hopefully with more cooperation from even more Gurmukhs, we will break new ground in this sphere. Guru sahiba-na aapar kirpa keete hah Sikha ta - to bless them "Een garban koh davo patshahi"

Veer ji, I will work on this section. Kind regards, Hari Singh^talk 04:16, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Will

Sardar ji, will you be adding English translations to the many new pages of Gurmukhi, surely there are other readers who don't read Gurmukhi?

Rab Rakha Allenwalla 01:48, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

BachitarNatak

Veer ji,

Thank you for the message; I am watching the entries with some concern; will let you know soon if it exceeds the limit. We appear to have a small number of such "contributors"! I wonder if this is due to lack of confidence or a way to misguide others? I will keep an open mind for now. Guru mahar karan, Hari Singh^talk 03:52, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Bachitar Natak

Veer ji, Sat Sri Akal

Anything that makes Bani more easier to understand and follow is to be appreciated. Please do collect material on this topic and then we can start the article; do not worry about anti-Sikhi elements as that will not be tolerated; the main reason we are here is to promote the pure form of Sikhi and not to be distracted by other fringe issues. Guru baksish karan gah! Hari Singh^talk 23:13, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Sat Sri Akal

How are you Harry? menu ik gal daso, mei pura bachitra natak padya hai, mainu gobind singh ji barey bohot ghat zikr milda hai. How could we say it's an autobiography. In autobiography person tells about himself and much about himself. Par in bachitar natak, Shuruaat vich, he tell about god, then tell about Guru Nanak's arrival and their ancestors, then tell about God's Hukam to him, then in battle of bhangani(tell abt what he is watching and given his description in 4 -5 lines and same continued and end's with praise of god.

i mean guru gobind singh barey tan bohot ghat info hai ki is nu autobiography kehna uchit hai? How could we say it an autobiography?.....................Editor