Talk:Gurudwara Baba Nanak

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These arguments presenting Guru Nanak as a Muslim have been used by a sect of Muslims called the Ahmedis ( or Qadianis ) since the 1890's. The Ahmedis though they profess to not believe in violent Jihad believe in using falsehood to convert people to their religion. In Pakistan they have been declared non-Muslims and they are actively persecuted by both the govt and the Muslims of Pakistan. It is human to feel some sympathy for them as many have been killed or jailed for their belief that the final prophet was not mohammed but Mirza Ghulam Ahmed who founded their sect in the 1890's. But when you see and read all the blatant falsehood they write about Guru Nanak then we should have no sympathy with them for the persecution they face in Pakistan.

Mirza Ghulam Ahmed wrote a few books in which he claimed to be Christ, Mahdi, Messiah and Krishna in order to win as many people as possible to his sect. He also wrote a few books where he claimed that Guru Nanak was a Muslim. He claimed 20 years of 'research' of Gurbani but he makes the elementary mistake of attributing a verse of Kabirji to Guru Nanak. He also makes a great deal of the Chola of Guru Nanak at Dera Baba Nanak. Ahmedis have no qualms about lying in order to secure a conversion to their faith, but this is also a Muslim trait as evidenced by the writings they are bringing to show that the Koran contained the scientific facts of today over 1400 years ago.

The Ahmedi tactic on the internet is to approach people by hiding behind a facade of 'wanting to learn more about the persons faith', they will liberally use term such as ' I am interested/want to learn more..' etc. This is not their intention, they want to see how much a Sikh knows about his faith and decide whether it is possible to lure him/her into theirs. If the Sikh knows his religion well and is able to respond to their subtle attempts of downgrade Sikhism and talk up their faith then they will leave him alone. At the end of the day, they measure their success by conversions and not by how interesting the discussion was.

If the Sikh is not firm or knowledgable in his faith they then plant the seeds of doubt. Terms such as ' I have heard that Guru Nanak was a Muslim' or ' Guru Nanak believed in Islam' are introduced. A few years I had occasion to reply to a request for a Sikh who had been similarly approached. After he passed on my article to the Ahmedi, she soon disappeared.

From my discussions with the Ahmedis they appear very ignorant of the Guru Granth Sahib and confuse deliberately it with the Janamsakhis. In the Janamsakhis , Guru Nanak meets many Muslim holy men where they approach him by putting forward their view that Allah, Islam and Mohammed are the only ones worthy of following. Guru Nanak always gives them his answer which counters the Muslim holy men's view. The Ahmedis select the Muslim holy men's quotes at those of Guru Nanak. This is why you will get quotes from the Janamsakhis with page numbers which the Ahmedis list as proof of Guru Nanak being a Muslim.

Sikh muslim relations and baba nanak

In common perception, many Sikhs and Muslims see themselves as inveterate >foes. Echoing the views of Hindutva ideologues, some Sikhs even go to the >extent of arguing that Sikhism is simply the ‘sword-arm’ of Hinduism, and >claim that it was established in order to defend the Hindus from Muslim >‘marauders’. This notion of the origins of the Sikh community bears little >relation to historical fact, however. Indeed, the idea that Guru Nanak >intended to set up a new community of his own, whether to defend the Hindus >or otherwise, is not corroborated by what we know of him and his teachings. >A dispassionate reading of the story of the Guru clearly suggests that he >had no intention of founding a new religion. Rather, he seems to have seen >his mission as reminding Hindus and Muslims of the oneness of God and >humankind and the meaningless of empty ritualism, rather than seeking to >convert them to a radically new religion. This is why he was deeply revered >by many Hindus as well as Muslims in > his time, as the following popular saying indicates: > > > > Baba Nanak Shah Faqir > > Hindu da guru Musalman da pir > > > > (Baba Nanak the Faqir, > > Guru to the Hindus, Pir to the Muslims) > > > >The development of the notion of the Sikhs as a separate religious >community vehemently opposed to Muslims is an entirely post-Nanak >phenomenon. It can only be understood when placed in the historical context >of rivalries between the later Gurus and their followers and the Mughal >rulers in Delhi. Although this rivalry was essentially political, it was >seen by many as religious, as a conflict between Muslims and Sikhs or >between Islam and Sikhism. Over time, then, Sikh identity, which in Baba >Nanak’s time was essentially open and fluid, came to be predicated on a >fierce hostility to Muslims, who were depicted in Sikh lore as evil, >bloodthirsty monsters. This image of the Muslim as the religious ‘other’ >continues to powerfully resonate in contemporary Sikh popular memory. This >found its most virulent expression in the massacre of large numbers of >Muslims by Sikhs in eastern Punjab in the wake of the Partition and >killings of Sikhs by Muslims in western Punjab. Even today latent > feelings of hostility between Sikhs and Muslims remain strong. > > > >Given the deeply ingrained antagonisms against each other in both Sikh and >Muslim popular consciousness, it is instructive to critically interrogate >early Sikh history to gauge how very far the image of Sikh-Muslim enmity >really is from the understanding of the early Gurus, particularly Nanak. >Baba Nanak’s close interaction with numerous Muslims in the course of his >life clearly suggests that contemporary Sikh notions of Muslims as the vile >religious ‘other’ are a major departure from the practice of their own >first guru. > > > > > >Baba Nanak was born in 1469 at the village of Talwandi, near Lahore in a >Hindu Khatri family. The village and its environs seemed to have a large >Muslim population, perhaps forming the majority. Nanak’s father, Mehta >Kalu, was a land revenue accountant in the service of a Muslim governor. As >a child, Baba Nanak was sent to a Hindu pandit and to a Muslim maulvi to >study. It is likely that from the latter he received a detailed knowledge >of Islam, which is readily apparent in his mystical poetry. Legend also has >it that, in the manner of some Sufis, Baba Nanak was also instructed by the >mystical Khwaja Khizr, considered by many to be a hidden prophet referred >to in the Qur’an. At a young age itself, therefore, Baba Nanak received a >fairly profound knowledge of Islam through his association with his Muslim >neighbours. > > > >Like many Sufis before him, Guru Nanak was an iconoclast, bitterly >criticizing pundits and mullahs alike for having deviated from God’s path. >His critique of both Hindu and Muslim priests seems entirely balanced, and >nowhere does he single out Muslims or the ‘ulama for more harsh rebuke than >the Hindus or the pandits. Thus, for instance, it is said that when he >turned nine years old his father arranged for a ceremony for him to don the >Hindu ‘holy’ thread or janeo. Baba Nanak, however, refused to wear it, >saying: > > > >Though men commit countless thefts, countless adulteries, utter countless >falsehoods and countless words of abuse; > >Though they commit countless robberies and villanies night and day against >their fellow creatures; > >Yet the cotton thread is spun and the Brahmin comes to twist it. > >For the ceremony they kill a goat and cook and eat it, and everybody then >says, ‘Put on the janeo’. > >When it becomes old, it is thrown away, and another is put on, > >Nanak, the string breaks not if it is strong. > > > >The true janeo, Baba Nanak then explained, was the ‘janeo of the soul’. To >the exasperated Brahmin he said: > > > > Out of the cotton of compassion > > Spin the thread of contentment > > Tie knots of continence, > > Give it the twist of truth. > > That would make a janeo for the soul, > > If you have it, O Brahmin, put it on me. > > Such a thread once worn will never break > > Nor get soiled, burnt or lost, > > The man who wears such a thread is blessed. > > > > > >Baba Nanak’s criticism of the worldly Muslim ‘ulama appears to be similarly >caustic. Thus, for instance, Baba Nanak is said to have joined his >employer, the Muslim Nawab Daulat Khan Lodhi of Sultanpur to offer prayers >in the mosque. While the Nawab and the Qazi kneeled and bowed in prayer, >Baba Nanak remained standing. After the prayer was over the Qazi and the >Nawab asked him why he had not prayed. The Guru answered that he had indeed >taken part in the worship, while they had not. While they were engaged in >the physical actions of prayer, he said, their minds were occupied with >worldly desires. Then, it is said, both the Qazi and the Nawab realized the >truth of Baba Nanak’s statement and accepted him as a true saint. Baba >Nanak explained to them the inner reality of namaz, the Muslim form of >worship thus: > > > > Five prayers you say five times a day, > > With five different names; > > But if Truth be your first prayer, > > The second to honestly earn your livelihood, > > The third to give in God’s name, > > Purity of mind be thy fourth prayer, > > And praise and prayer to God your fifth; > > And if you practise these five virtues, > > And good deeds are your kalima (article of faith) > > Then you can call yourself a true Muslim. > > > >Baba Nanak further elaborated on the true Muslim thus: > > > > He who is firm in his faith, > > Has the right to be called a Muslim. > > His acts must be in accord with his faith in the Prophet, > > He must clean his heart of his pride and greed, > > Not being troubled by the two imposters life and death, > > Resigned to the will of God; > > Knowing Him as the Doer, > > Free [ing] himself from the self, > > Be [ing] compassionate towards all beings, O Nanak, > > Such a one may call himself a Muslim. > > > >These two touching, powerful sets of verses, contained in the Guru Granth >Sahib, show Baba Nanak as deeply grounded in Islam and in the Sufi >tradition. Far from displaying any hostility towards Muslims or Islam, they >show him to be genuinely respectful of Islam, the Prophet and those >following sincerely in the Prophet’s path. > > > >Guru Nanak maintained close relations with numerous Muslims throughout his >life. He had many Muslim disciples, who, while respecting him, remained >Muslim, for Baba Nanak only exhorted them to become better Muslims rather >than to change their faith or communal allegiances. The Janamsakhis or >biographical accounts and Udasis or travel accounts of Baba Nanak also show >him as visiting numerous places in India and beyond in order to meet with >accomplished Sufi saints, such as Shaikh Brahm (Ibrahim?) in Pak Pattan, >Sayyed Shah Husain in Nanded, Shaikh Sharf in Panipat, Pir Hamza Ghaus in >Sialkot and Shaikh Bahlol in Baghdad. Sikh sources tell us that Baba Nanak >went as far as Mecca to perform the Haj. Since only Muslims are allowed to >enter Mecca, many Muslims believe that Baba Nanak had, by this time, >himself become a Muslim, although many contemporary Sikhs would contest >that suggestion. > > > >Several Muslim writers, including noted Sufi saints, considered Baba Nanak >to have been a Muslim wali or ‘friend of God’. Ample evidence exists to >suggest a strong Islamic influence on the Guru. One of the most intriguing >relics of Baba Nanak is the Chola Sahib, which is preserved at a gurudwara >at Dera Baba Nanak. It is a long cloak with short sleeves made of brown >cotton cloth. It was first used by Baba Nanak, and then passed on to his >successor Guru Angad, who is said to have wound it around his head when >being ordained as guru. The ceremony of wearing the chola about the head >while being ordained as guru continued till the fifth guru, Arjan Das, >after which the chola was preserved to prevent further decay. > > > >The chola is no ordinary cloak. It is said to be written over entirely with >verses from the Qur’an, testifying to the oneness of God, the truth of >Islam and the prophethood of Muhammad. Given this, some Muslim writers >assert that this shows that Baba Nanak wore the cloak in order to stress >that he was actually a Muslim. On the other hand, Sikh writers, while >admitting the authenticity of the chola, claim that it was bestowed upon >Baba Nanak by the Caliph when he visited Baghdad as a sign of respect and >honour. Muslim writers, and especially the Ahmadis, retort by suggesting >that this incident is not mentioned in reliable historical accounts. >Further, the question of why a Muslim Caliph should bestow a cloak with >Qur’anic verses written all over it to Baba Nanak if he was not a Muslim, >in the sense that the Caliph understood the term, remains unanswered. > > > >Baba Nanak’s close relations with Muslims is most readily evidence by the >fact that his dearest disciple, who remained with him wherever he went, >Bhai Mardana, was himself a Muslim. Like Baba Nanak’s other Muslim >disciples, Mardana remained a Muslim throughout his life. Today his >descendants live in Pakistan and describe themselves as Sikh-Muslims. >Mardana is said to have been some nine years older than Baba Nanak. He was >born in Talwandi in 1459, which was also Baba Nanak’s ancestral village, in >a family of Muslim Mirasis, hereditary singers. Mardana’s father Badra was >the family bard of Mehta Kalu, Baba Nanak’s father. Every morning Badra and >Mardana would go from house to house in the village seeking alms, while >singing songs to the accompaniment of the rabab. As a child, Baba Nanak was >deeply touched by Mardana’s music, and is said to have felt a strong love >for him. When Baba Nanak was employed to look after the stores of the Lodhi >Nawab of Sultanpur, he managed to convince the > Nawab to give Mardana a job. From then onwards, the two lived together as >inseparable companions for the next 54 years, till Mardana’s death in 1520. >Baba Nanak would sing his mystical verses and Mardana would play the rabab. >Mardana also composed his own verses, three of which are included in the >Adi Granth. > > > >According to some accounts, Mardana passed away somewhere in Afghanistan >when he and Nanak were returning from the Haj. In his last wish to Baba >Nanak he asked, ‘[F]erry me across this ocean of the world for the sake of >the word of God, which I have been singing to you and your people’. Baba >Nanak then headed for the Punjab, and, back in his village, he persuaded >Mardana’s eldest son, Shahzada, to take his father’s place. Shahzada >accompanied Baba Nanak to Kartarpur and served as the chief minstrel to him >and his other followers. > > > >More could be said on the close links between the early Sikhs and Islam to >argue that the notion that Sikhs and Muslims have always been inveterate >foes or that Sikhism was Hinduism’s ‘sword-arm’ against Islamic >‘aggression’ is completely misplaced. If that were indeed the case, one may >well ask how and why did Guru Arjan Dev, the fifth Sikh Guru, invite Hazrat >Miyan Mir, a renowned Qadri Muslim mystic, to lay the foundation stone of >the Golden Temple? Clearly, contemporary understandings of Sikh-Muslim >relations have little to do with the original teachings of the early gurus. >The image of the Muslim as the religious ‘other’ in contemporary Sikh >consciousness thus owes entirely to political, rather than religious, >factors, in particular to the conflicts between the later gurus and the >Mughals. It was this troubled political relationship that laid the ground >for the transformation of Sikh-Muslim relations, from warm and intimate, at >the time of the early gurus, to oppositional and > violently conflictual, in later years, leading to the crystallization of >a Sikh identity premised on a fierce hostility towards Muslims. > > > > History, of course, cannot be undone. All we can learn from it is to >abstain from the errors of the past, and to seek inspiration from its >achievements. Re-reading the history of the early Sikh movement, >particularly Baba Nanak’s relations with the Muslims of his times, provides >us with an alternate way of imagining Sikh-Muslim relations. This, needless >to add, would both be an authentic representation of the Baba Nanak’s own >mission as well as a urgently needed corrective to the deeply ingrained >notion of Sikhs and Muslims as sworn enemies of each other.

Nanak Was a real muslim

"A TRUE MUSLIM IS NOT ONE THAT LABELS HIMSELF MUSLIM BUT ONE WHO HAS STRONG INNER FAITH" Lets first look at how Guru Nanaks story of how he got his mission to solve the conflicts between the Hindus and muslims. Guru Nanak was one day talking a bath in the river and suddenly dissappeared. People at that time thought he drowned however, after three days Guru Nanak appeared at the same spot from where he had disappeared. He was no longer the same person he had been, there was a divine light in his eyes and his face was resplendent. He remained in a trance and said nothing. He gave up his job and distributed all of his belongings to the poor. When he finally broke his silence he uttered "There is no Hindu, no Muslim". Daulat Khan asked what he meant when he said to Guru Nanak, "Perhaps the Hindus were no longer Hindus but the Muslims remain devout to their faith." Guru Nanak replied,"Let God's grace be the mosque, and devotion the prayer mat. Let the Quran be the good conduct. Let modesty be compassion, good manners fasting, you should be a Muslim the like of this. Let good deeds be your Kaaba and truth be your mentor. Your Kalma be your creed and prayer, God would then vindicate your honour." (Majh). We can clearly see that Guru Nanak had never rejected any fact about Islam but for hindus he has rejected how the hindus practiced worshipping idols. Guru Nanak told the muslim also to continue to fast in the month of ramadan and in sikhism today fasting is totally against the religion. We can clearly see here that Guru Nanak did not have any intention to bring a new religion but told his followers to continue their religion. Lets analyse some other aspects of the life of Guru Nanak according to Sikh books and texts. He was born in a Hindu family and his immediate friends were muslims, so he would have had some kind of Islamic influence when he was young. He was once at school and his teacher asked him to count to 3, he refused and his teacher urged him to recite....Nanak kept saying 1, 1, 1, teacher asked him why? he replied 'because there is only 1 God'. This in itself is massive indication of his influence of Islam because the Hindus at that time had millions of different Gods and deities besides Allah, the Hindus being the arch enemies and haters of Islam even from the time (idolators) of Holy Prophet Muhammad (saw)....so for some one to go against the tide of his culture, family, religion and society and to profess the oneness of God was very impressive indeed, verily to do this would require great conviction in the monothesitic belief of 1 God. Being young to develop this conviction lets look where he could have got sources of information, both religious and philosophical...we can deduce there were 3 main sources, his family, his teachers and his friends....his family was from a hardcore hindu family and Nanak went against the belief of his father and forefathers, so that is ruled out. Clearly the authority of his teachers didn't hold much weight in the sight of Nanak or else why would he speak against them and disobey, and also they were all Hindu! With logical reasoning one must deduce that his firends were influential over him because Islam was the only religion then to profess the oneness of Allah at the time, so he must have had a Islamic inclination even when he was young. Lets move on to when he was slightly older though still young. He was from a quite wealthy family, and once his mother gave him gold bracelets to wear, there and then Nanak went and threw them into the River Ganges. Why did he do this? This act of adornation of children was seen as a big custom for those that could afford it. Sikh scholars as yet can only say he must not have liked them, though this is clearly obvious he didn't like them but why didn't he? Could it be because Allah and his Prophet (saw) have declared it haram (impermissable) for men to adorn themselves with gold, and this is why he hastened to get rid of them? As Nanak was getting older he wore a jubba (like a kurta pajama but without the slit down the side and slightly longer!), he started wearing a turban and lengthening his beard. This was not customary for hindus to wear such items, there is absolutley no other rationable answer but to conclude that he was following the sunnah (the way) of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (saw), which every devout muslim endeavours to do. The Prophet (saw) used to wear a jubba, he used to lengthen his beard, and he used to wear a turban, just like many of the Prophets that had come before. "A REAL MUSLIM CAN BE INDENTIFIED BY THE WAY HE FOLLOW THE SUNNATH OF THE HOLY PROPHET NOT BY HOW HE LABELS HIMSELF A MUSLIM" Now you may think that sikhs dont cut their beard and they wear turbans so maybe he was a sikh, a quick and simple answer is that Sikhism wasn't even around at this time, only a couple of hundred years later was the Sikh Khalsa formed at the hands of Guru Gobind Singh. Infact the term 'sikh' did not even exist till the fifth Guru Arjan Singh came. Now as a devout muslim one should not just try to follow the Holy Prophet (saw) in just outward appearance but inwardly as well, in his sublime character, in his gentleness and generousity. As Nanak was maturing glimpses of his life reflected the teachings of the Prophet (saw). Once Nanak's father gave him some money to go to the market place and to do business, on his way there he met some poor beggers, Nanak spent all the money on food and fed the beggers instead! Allah (swt) says in the Qur'an, 'do not rebuke the begger', it is a well known fact with proof and authenticity in the field of hadith that the Prophet (saw) never once sent a begger empty handed when he was appoached. He would also meditate a lot and strived to renounce the material life of this dunya, the words of the Prophet (saw) comes to mind, 'live in this life as if you are but a traveller.' He used to pray a lot (as in the muslim prayer), in many sikh sources we are told that Guru Nanak used to go the mosque and pray sometimes. However according to history of Iraq other muslim countries he joined the jammat in the mosque and used to pray 5 times a day(muslim namaz). As you know the sikh statement of faith is 'Ek Onkar', this is what Guru Nanak was said to have uttered and encouraged others to believe in. Lets study this, Ek obviously means 'one', but what does Onkar mean? Onkar is actually from the sanskript word 'Omkar' now like a lot of sanskript words Omkar has root words, and 2 of the root words are, 'Rahim, and Kareem', these are 2 of the 99 names of Allah (swt) which are found in the Holy Qur'an. The word 'Rabb' is also very widespread in sikhism and is found in the Granth Sahib as well, ever thought where it came from? From the Holy Qur'an which was written over 1400 years ago! After all of this even if one attempted to try and refute all of the above, then I challenge anyone to explain this. It is documented by many if not all sikh books on the life of Nanak that he performed Hajj and Umrah therefore visiting the Holy cities of Mecca and Medina. If he wasn't a muslim then why would he do this, sikh scholars try to justify this by claiming that Nanak was accepted by everyone and this is why he went for Hajj and Umrah. Acceptance is one thing, but participating in the most holy and significant pilgrimage that a muslim will ever make is quite a different issue altogether. These same scholars are silenced when the following verse of the Holy Qur'an is recited to them, '..verily the disbelievers are impure so let them not come near the Holy plave of worship (Mecca)...' Thus meaning that a non-muslim can never under any circumstances enter Mecca or Medina, to this day and Insha Allah till the Day of Judgement no non-muslim can enter. So therefore Nanak must have been a muslim or else he wouldn't be allowed anywhere near the Holy Land. I think I've said enough but there are still a couple other points, sikh sources testify to the fact that Nanak went to Baghdad (Iraq), at that time Baghdad was the Islamic capital of the entire world and was for many years. At that time when economy was soaring, social structuring through the justice of Islam was being implemented, advancement of technology was moving at a rapid rate. So much could be said about Baghdad but the question is if Nanak wasn't a muslim he had no reason to be in Baghdad. To conclude, in the Gurudwara of Ferozepur District (North Punjab) was the jubba of Nanak, for reasons of maintenance it was wrapped many times and remained like this for many years, until just over 50 years ago it was unveiled, and low and behold on the jubba was verses of the Holy Qur'an, and scrawled across the front was the statement of faith declaring, 'There is no deity worthy of worship but Allah, and that Muhammad (saw) is the Messenger of Allah'....as yet sikh scholars haven't explained this unsurprisingly, for it speaks for itself. Guru Nanak also join muslim saints and did zikr(spritual prayer) with them for a total of 40 years. Therefore the Calipah of Baghdad gave him the the cloak and only gave it to him because he a great sufi saint and aslo a true muslim. The cloak has the kalma, the names of Allah and also some verses of the quran and only a pure and a true muslim like Guru Nanak had been given the cloak as a gift. Theres so much more than can be said, I hope I have done justice to your question, I pray that this is a means of opening your heart to the light of Islam, just like my heart was opened through the Mercy of the ever- Merciful (swt). As one companion of the Prophet (saw) once said when inviting towards Islam, 'we were sent to take mankind out of the servitude of things and bring them under the servitude of Allah, from the injustice of oppressors and systems, to the justice of Islam. From the narrowness of this dunya, to the vastness of the hereafter.'

NAAM ISHNAAN

hau apr|Ye gun'hg|r hau b'muK m.Q|]....

  • I the accused can not judge the 'judge'

ar siK h.o apn' he mn ko ih lalc ho mn qy -cr.o].....

  • Let me teach no one but my own self

aap n kr" aurn -pd's"].....

  • preach not...

as.K cor hr|m Kor].....

  • the world is full of ....

mn jeq" jg jeq].....

  • win the mind to begin with......

hm nh.e c.g' bur| nh.e ko']....

  • There are 'TRUTH gods' all around.....

n|nk vigs" b'prvah....]

  • worry not.......

e'h Bi d|q q're d|q|r.....

  • who am I to Chalange ?????..........
---Mutia 10:47, 6 September 2007 (EDT)