Why is God described as having sharp teeth, when God is formless?: Difference between revisions
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[[File:Carnival_Mask_teeth.jpg|thumb|right|200px|People who are Anti of Dasam Granth, by reading two lines argued over fact that god have Sharp Teeth]] | |||
This article is about a point generally raised by people who are against Dasam Granth, is about the form of Mahakaal as exhibited in Dasam Granth. The poetic description of form in various ways leads those people to believe that, Dasam Granth is talking about some form of God in contrast to formless God, as appears in Guru Granth Sahib. Important thing that such people fail to note is that in Guru Granth Sahib too, such poetic expression of God has been used invariably. | This article is about a point generally raised by people who are against Dasam Granth, is about the form of Mahakaal as exhibited in Dasam Granth. The poetic description of form in various ways leads those people to believe that, Dasam Granth is talking about some form of God in contrast to formless God, as appears in Guru Granth Sahib. Important thing that such people fail to note is that in Guru Granth Sahib too, such poetic expression of God has been used invariably. | ||
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==Shingar Rass== | ==Shingar Rass== | ||
Shingar Rass is a poetry style which is used in Guru Granth Sahib, Dasam Granth and many other Granths. In this poetry Style, poet uses similes and metaphors to vividly explain some other relatively inexplicable concepts. Like depicting soul in the form of bride and God in the form of Groom. Various details like pangs of separation of the bride, love-bed, and longing to be in the bed have been given. | |||
Let's start this from Guru Granth Sahib: | |||
==God | ==Symbolic Forms of Formless God in Guru Granth Sahib== | ||
under construction please do not touch it ([[User:Thegreateditor|Editor]] 17:05, 25 August 2010 (EDT)) | under construction please do not touch it ([[User:Thegreateditor|Editor]] 17:05, 25 August 2010 (EDT)) | ||
====God have Four hands==== | |||
[[File:fourarms.jpg|thumb|right|300px|If God have four arms is this god?]] | |||
<big><center>ਨਿਰਾਹਾਰੀ ਨਿਰਵੈਰ ਸਮਾਇਆ ॥<br> | |||
He is beyond need of any sustenance, free of hate and all-pervading. | |||
ਧਾਰਿ ਖੇਲ ਚਤਰਭਜ ਕਹਾਇਆ ॥<br> | |||
He has staged His play; He is called the four-armed Lord. </center></big> | |||
God is called Chaturbhuj means one have four arms. But what actually is chaturbhuj how god have four arms, if it is formless and unborn? Chaturbhuj is his quality not his form. | |||
== | ====God having Tilak Shank and Mala==== | ||
<big><center>ਸੰਖ ਚਕਰ ਮਾਲਾ ਤਿਲਕ ਬਿਰਾਜਿਤ ਦੇਖਿ ਪਰਤਾਪ ਜਮ ਡਰਿਓ ॥ <br>He is adorned with the conch, the chakra, the mala and the ceremonial tilak mark on his forehead; gazing upon his radiant glory, the Messenger of Death is scared away.</center></big> | |||
He is adorned with the conch, the chakra, the mala and the ceremonial tilak mark on his forehead; gazing upon his radiant glory, the Messenger of Death is scared away.</center></big> | |||
As God is Formless in Guru Granth Sahib, still Guru Sahib is explaining a Form of God. This is form of Formless of Nirankar(). Professor Sahib Singh explained it: | As God is Formless in Guru Granth Sahib, still Guru Sahib is explaining a Form of God. This is form of Formless of Nirankar(). Professor Sahib Singh explained it: | ||
Line 46: | Line 45: | ||
Now if these terms will be written by those people who makes form of god then he will also make form of God through these lines but these lines have their independent meanings. Each word ਸੰਖ, ਚਕਰ, ਮਾਲਾ, ਤਿਲਕ has it's own meaning. This theme is called Shingar Rass which is already used in Guru Granth Sahib at various places | Now if these terms will be written by those people who makes form of god then he will also make form of God through these lines but these lines have their independent meanings. Each word ਸੰਖ, ਚਕਰ, ਮਾਲਾ, ਤਿਲਕ has it's own meaning. This theme is called Shingar Rass which is already used in Guru Granth Sahib at various places | ||
====God wear anklet and have Mace in Hand==== | |||
<big><center>ਸੰਦਰ ਕੰਡਲ ਮਕਟ ਬੈਨ ॥ ਸੰਖ ਚਕਰ ਗਦਾ ਹੈ ਧਾਰੀ ਮਹਾ ਸਾਰਥੀ ਸਤਸੰਗਾ ॥੧੦॥</center></big> | |||
Bhai Sahib Singh also explained it as following: | Bhai Sahib Singh also explained it as following: | ||
ਹੇ ਸੋਹਣੇ ਕੰਡਲਾਂ ਵਾਲੇ! ਹੇ ਮਕਟ-ਧਾਰੀ! ਹੇ ਬੰਸਰੀ ਵਾਲੇ! ਹੇ ਸੰਖ-ਧਾਰੀ! ਹੇ ਚੱਕਰ-ਧਾਰੀ! ਹੇ ਗਦਾ-ਧਾਰੀ! ਤੂੰ ਸਤਸੰਗੀਆਂ ਦਾ ਸਭ ਤੋਂ ਵੱਡਾ ਰਥਵਾਹੀ (ਆਗੂ) ਹੈਂ।੧੦। | ਹੇ ਸੋਹਣੇ ਕੰਡਲਾਂ ਵਾਲੇ! ਹੇ ਮਕਟ-ਧਾਰੀ! ਹੇ ਬੰਸਰੀ ਵਾਲੇ! ਹੇ ਸੰਖ-ਧਾਰੀ! ਹੇ ਚੱਕਰ-ਧਾਰੀ! ਹੇ ਗਦਾ-ਧਾਰੀ! ਤੂੰ ਸਤਸੰਗੀਆਂ ਦਾ ਸਭ ਤੋਂ ਵੱਡਾ ਰਥਵਾਹੀ (ਆਗੂ) ਹੈਂ।੧੦। | ||
Though God is formless but in these line Guru Arjun Dev ji is putting Earings in ear of God and also give mace aside of Shankh(Counch), Chakra etc. This is another form of Shingar Rass of depicting god. | Though God is formless but in these line Guru Arjun Dev ji is putting Earings in ear of God and also give mace aside of Shankh(Counch), Chakra etc. This is another form of Shingar Rass of depicting god. | ||
<br> | |||
====God with Long Hairs==== | |||
[[File:Long-hair-07.jpg|thumb|right|200px|The photo depicts long hair(KESHVA), so is this God?]] | |||
<big><center>ਸਪਰਸੰਨ ਭਝ ਕੇਸਵਾ ਸੇ ਜਨ ਹਰਿ ਗਣ ਗਾਹਿ ॥੪॥</center></big> | |||
Professor Sahib Singh also stated here: | Professor Sahib Singh also stated here: | ||
Line 60: | Line 63: | ||
God is shown here with long hairs, though formless entity have given form. This is a part of Shingar Rass. | God is shown here with long hairs, though formless entity have given form. This is a part of Shingar Rass. | ||
== | ==God is Formless - Guru Granth Sahib== | ||
under construction please do not touch it ([[User:Thegreateditor|Editor]] 17:05, 25 August 2010 (EDT)) | |||
In beggining of Granth it is clearly written that God is Ajooni which itself depicts that all form which are made above are part of Shingar Rass nothing else. | |||
<big><center>ਤੂ ਸਦਾ ਸਲਾਮਤਿ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ॥੧੬॥<br>You, Eternal and Formless One! ||16||</center></big> | |||
<br><br> | |||
<big><center>ਅਹਿਨਿਸਿ ਹਿਰਦੈ ਰਵਿ ਰਹੈ ਨਿਰਭਉ ਨਾਮ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ॥<br>Day and night, the Name of the One Lord, the Fearless and Formless One, dwells within the heart.</center></big> | |||
<br><br> | |||
<big><center>ਆਪ ਛੋਡਿ ਸਭ ਹੋਇ ਰੇਣਾ ਜਿਸ ਦੇਇ ਪਰਭ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ॥੩॥<br>One who is so blessed by the Formless Lord God renounces selfishness, and becomes the dust of all. ||3||</center></big> | |||
<br> | |||
==God is Formless - Dasam Granth== | |||
under construction please do not touch it ([[User:Thegreateditor|Editor]] 17:05, 25 August 2010 (EDT)) | under construction please do not touch it ([[User:Thegreateditor|Editor]] 17:05, 25 August 2010 (EDT)) | ||
Dasam Granth also started from first line "Chakar Chihan Ar Barn jaat ar paat nihanjey", which itself tells that Philosphy is totally equal to Guru Granth Sahib and it's writing of a GUrmukh. | |||
In Dasam Granth, Guru Gobind SIngh too explained that Mahakaal is Formless in various lines in same poetry where Sharp Teeth lines are written. | In Dasam Granth, Guru Gobind SIngh too explained that Mahakaal is Formless in various lines in same poetry where Sharp Teeth lines are written. | ||
Line 67: | Line 83: | ||
<big><center>ਨ ਰੂਪੰ ਨ ਰੇਖੰ ਨ ਰੰਗੰ ਨ ਰਾਗੰ ॥ ਨ ਨਾਮੰ ਨ ਠਾਮੰ ਮਹਾ ਜੋਤਿ ਜਾਗੰ ॥<br> | <big><center>ਨ ਰੂਪੰ ਨ ਰੇਖੰ ਨ ਰੰਗੰ ਨ ਰਾਗੰ ॥ ਨ ਨਾਮੰ ਨ ਠਾਮੰ ਮਹਾ ਜੋਤਿ ਜਾਗੰ ॥<br> | ||
He is Formless, Signless, Colourless and Non-attached. He is Nameless, Placeless; and a Radiating Great Effulgence. </center></big> | He is Formless, Signless, Colourless and Non-attached. He is Nameless, Placeless; and a Radiating Great Effulgence. </center></big> | ||
<br><br> | |||
<big><center>ਨ ਰੂਪੰ ਨ ਰੇਖੰ ਨ ਰੰਗੰ ਨ ਰਾਗੰ ॥ ਨ ਨਾਮੰ ਨ ਠਾਮੰ ਮਹਾ ਜੋਤਿ ਜਾਗੰ ॥<br> | <big><center>ਨ ਰੂਪੰ ਨ ਰੇਖੰ ਨ ਰੰਗੰ ਨ ਰਾਗੰ ॥ ਨ ਨਾਮੰ ਨ ਠਾਮੰ ਮਹਾ ਜੋਤਿ ਜਾਗੰ ॥<br> | ||
He is Formless, Signless, Colourless and Non-attached. He is Nameless, Placeless; and a Radiating Great Effulgence.</center></big> | He is Formless, Signless, Colourless and Non-attached. He is Nameless, Placeless; and a Radiating Great Effulgence.</center></big> | ||
<br><br> | |||
<big><center>ਨ ਦਵੈਖੰ ਨ ਭੇਖੰ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ਨਿਤਯੰ ॥ ਮਹਾ ਜੋਗ ਜੋਗੰ ਸ ਪਰਮੰ ਪਵਿਤਰਯੰ॥੫॥<br> | <big><center>ਨ ਦਵੈਖੰ ਨ ਭੇਖੰ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ਨਿਤਯੰ ॥ ਮਹਾ ਜੋਗ ਜੋਗੰ ਸ ਪਰਮੰ ਪਵਿਤਰਯੰ॥੫॥<br> | ||
He is Blemishless, Guiseless, Formless and Eternal. He is a Superb Practising Yogi and a Supremely Holy Entity.5. </center></big> | He is Blemishless, Guiseless, Formless and Eternal. He is a Superb Practising Yogi and a Supremely Holy Entity.5. </center></big> | ||
== | Mahakaal is nothing else than God which have same features as mentioned in Guru Granth Sahib. The difference in depiction is that Guru Gobind Singh Showed another face of God which we see in form of Earthquackes, volcanoes, accidents in which lakhs of people dies i.e how god eats up whole earth. God is itself destroyer. This is shown in form of Shingar Rass by Guru Gobind Singh which makes some people scare off. | ||
==Symbolic Forms of Formless God in Dasam Granth Sahib== | |||
Just Like Guru Granth Sahib, Guru Gobind Singh explained the destroyer quality of god in form of image. Everything Happened in Hukam of God. Like above Hukam is explained in some form, similarly Hukam is also explained in this form in Dasam Granth Sahib. Kirpan is Sword, As Mahakaal is formless, so these attributes | |||
could not have form. These all attributes are formless too, the person who will make it's form is simply Ignorant, fool. | |||
There are many attributes of God which are nirakari in guru granth sahib too like Hath, Nain, Charan etc. | |||
When this Nirakari body is explained in this manner similarly his activities are also mentioned in a form as explained at many places of guru granth sahib. | |||
Kiranan in hand of God, who is also called Mahakaal, Nirankar etc. is non elemental means not made of elements,which itself tells that it is nirakari. | |||
ਚਮਕਹਿ ਕਰਿਪਾਣੰ ॥ ਅਭੂਤੰ ਭਯਾਣੰ ॥ | ਚਮਕਹਿ ਕਰਿਪਾਣੰ ॥ ਅਭੂਤੰ ਭਯਾਣੰ ॥ | ||
Line 107: | Line 132: | ||
ਛਬੇ ਚਾਰ ਚਿਤਰੰ ॥ ਪਰੇਅੰ ਪਵਿਤਰੰ ॥੩੪॥ | ਛਬੇ ਚਾਰ ਚਿਤਰੰ ॥ ਪਰੇਅੰ ਪਵਿਤਰੰ ॥੩੪॥ | ||
On his face there are lovely delineations, which are superbly holy. 34. | On his face there are lovely delineations, which are superbly holy. 34. | ||
[[ | |||
==Why Anti Dasam People Make Such Claims== | |||
* Lack of Research and understanding of Gurmat | |||
* Ignorance of literary genre (ਮਾਇਆਧਾਰੀ ਅਤਿ ਅੰਨਾ ਬੋਲਾ ॥) | |||
* unknowingness of Sikh History | |||
* Stubbornly persistent in wrongdoing (ਮਨਹਠਿ ਮਤੀ ਬੂਡੀਝ ਗਰਮਖਿ ਸਚ ਸ ਤਾਰਿ ॥੧॥)) | |||
* Getting Monetary benefits or under pressure of some Anti-Gurmat Agents like RSS or Christian Societies. | |||
* Unnecessary Aggression for some non Gurmat philosphies, without understanding what is true and what is false in them. | |||
* Egotism devoid of full knowledge | |||
==How to Deal with these people== | |||
Just keep quiet, and let these elements continue the whooping speech. One should continue with Gurmat research. BE GURMUKH not SCHOLAR. ਛਾਡਿ ਮਨ ਹਰਿ ਬਿਮਖਨ ਕੋ ਸੰਗ ॥ | |||
[[Category:Dasam Granth - Question and Answers]] |
Latest revision as of 07:21, 24 April 2013
This article is about a point generally raised by people who are against Dasam Granth, is about the form of Mahakaal as exhibited in Dasam Granth. The poetic description of form in various ways leads those people to believe that, Dasam Granth is talking about some form of God in contrast to formless God, as appears in Guru Granth Sahib. Important thing that such people fail to note is that in Guru Granth Sahib too, such poetic expression of God has been used invariably.
The lines which are quoted from Dasam granth is from first part of Bachittar Natak
His tongue red like fire seems magnificent and his grinder teeth are very frightening.
Thou hast two grinder teeth. Terrible, white and high, seeing which the tyrants run away from the battlefield.
ਮਦ ਮਤ ਕਰਿਪਾਣ ਕਰਾਲ ਧਰੰ ॥ ਜਯ ਸਦ ਸਰਾਸਰਯੰ ਉਚਰੰ ॥੫੫॥
Salutation to Him, who hath sharp grinder teeth, which are thick and strong.89.
Shingar Rass
Shingar Rass is a poetry style which is used in Guru Granth Sahib, Dasam Granth and many other Granths. In this poetry Style, poet uses similes and metaphors to vividly explain some other relatively inexplicable concepts. Like depicting soul in the form of bride and God in the form of Groom. Various details like pangs of separation of the bride, love-bed, and longing to be in the bed have been given.
Let's start this from Guru Granth Sahib:
Symbolic Forms of Formless God in Guru Granth Sahib
under construction please do not touch it (Editor 17:05, 25 August 2010 (EDT))
God have Four hands
He is beyond need of any sustenance, free of hate and all-pervading.
ਧਾਰਿ ਖੇਲ ਚਤਰਭਜ ਕਹਾਇਆ ॥
God is called Chaturbhuj means one have four arms. But what actually is chaturbhuj how god have four arms, if it is formless and unborn? Chaturbhuj is his quality not his form.
God having Tilak Shank and Mala
He is adorned with the conch, the chakra, the mala and the ceremonial tilak mark on his forehead; gazing upon his radiant glory, the Messenger of Death is scared away.
As God is Formless in Guru Granth Sahib, still Guru Sahib is explaining a Form of God. This is form of Formless of Nirankar(). Professor Sahib Singh explained it:
(ਪਰਭੂ ਦਾ) ਸੰਖ, ਚੱਕਰ, ਮਾਲਾ, ਤਿਲਕ ਆਦਿਕ ਚਮਕਦਾ ਵੇਖ ਕੇ, ਪਰਤਾਪ ਵੇਖ ਕੇ, ਜਮਰਾਜ ਭੀ ਸਹਿਮ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ
Now if these terms will be written by those people who makes form of god then he will also make form of God through these lines but these lines have their independent meanings. Each word ਸੰਖ, ਚਕਰ, ਮਾਲਾ, ਤਿਲਕ has it's own meaning. This theme is called Shingar Rass which is already used in Guru Granth Sahib at various places
God wear anklet and have Mace in Hand
Bhai Sahib Singh also explained it as following: ਹੇ ਸੋਹਣੇ ਕੰਡਲਾਂ ਵਾਲੇ! ਹੇ ਮਕਟ-ਧਾਰੀ! ਹੇ ਬੰਸਰੀ ਵਾਲੇ! ਹੇ ਸੰਖ-ਧਾਰੀ! ਹੇ ਚੱਕਰ-ਧਾਰੀ! ਹੇ ਗਦਾ-ਧਾਰੀ! ਤੂੰ ਸਤਸੰਗੀਆਂ ਦਾ ਸਭ ਤੋਂ ਵੱਡਾ ਰਥਵਾਹੀ (ਆਗੂ) ਹੈਂ।੧੦।
Though God is formless but in these line Guru Arjun Dev ji is putting Earings in ear of God and also give mace aside of Shankh(Counch), Chakra etc. This is another form of Shingar Rass of depicting god.
God with Long Hairs
Professor Sahib Singh also stated here: (ਹੇ ਭਾਈ!) ਜਿਨਹਾਂ ਉਤੇ ਸੋਹਣੇ ਲੰਮੇ ਕੇਸਾਂ ਵਾਲਾ ਪਰਭੂ ਪਰਸੰਨ ਹੰਦਾ ਹੈ, ਉਹ ਬੰਦੇ ਪਰਭੂ ਦੇ ਗਣ ਗਾਂਦੇ ਰਹਿੰਦੇ ਹਨ।੪।
God is shown here with long hairs, though formless entity have given form. This is a part of Shingar Rass.
God is Formless - Guru Granth Sahib
under construction please do not touch it (Editor 17:05, 25 August 2010 (EDT)) In beggining of Granth it is clearly written that God is Ajooni which itself depicts that all form which are made above are part of Shingar Rass nothing else.
You, Eternal and Formless One! ||16||
Day and night, the Name of the One Lord, the Fearless and Formless One, dwells within the heart.
One who is so blessed by the Formless Lord God renounces selfishness, and becomes the dust of all. ||3||
God is Formless - Dasam Granth
under construction please do not touch it (Editor 17:05, 25 August 2010 (EDT))
Dasam Granth also started from first line "Chakar Chihan Ar Barn jaat ar paat nihanjey", which itself tells that Philosphy is totally equal to Guru Granth Sahib and it's writing of a GUrmukh.
In Dasam Granth, Guru Gobind SIngh too explained that Mahakaal is Formless in various lines in same poetry where Sharp Teeth lines are written.
He is Formless, Signless, Colourless and Non-attached. He is Nameless, Placeless; and a Radiating Great Effulgence.
He is Formless, Signless, Colourless and Non-attached. He is Nameless, Placeless; and a Radiating Great Effulgence.
He is Blemishless, Guiseless, Formless and Eternal. He is a Superb Practising Yogi and a Supremely Holy Entity.5.
Mahakaal is nothing else than God which have same features as mentioned in Guru Granth Sahib. The difference in depiction is that Guru Gobind Singh Showed another face of God which we see in form of Earthquackes, volcanoes, accidents in which lakhs of people dies i.e how god eats up whole earth. God is itself destroyer. This is shown in form of Shingar Rass by Guru Gobind Singh which makes some people scare off.
Symbolic Forms of Formless God in Dasam Granth Sahib
Just Like Guru Granth Sahib, Guru Gobind Singh explained the destroyer quality of god in form of image. Everything Happened in Hukam of God. Like above Hukam is explained in some form, similarly Hukam is also explained in this form in Dasam Granth Sahib. Kirpan is Sword, As Mahakaal is formless, so these attributes could not have form. These all attributes are formless too, the person who will make it's form is simply Ignorant, fool.
There are many attributes of God which are nirakari in guru granth sahib too like Hath, Nain, Charan etc.
When this Nirakari body is explained in this manner similarly his activities are also mentioned in a form as explained at many places of guru granth sahib.
Kiranan in hand of God, who is also called Mahakaal, Nirankar etc. is non elemental means not made of elements,which itself tells that it is nirakari.
ਚਮਕਹਿ ਕਰਿਪਾਣੰ ॥ ਅਭੂਤੰ ਭਯਾਣੰ ॥
The sword of KAL glistens, which is Non-elemental and terrible.
ਧਨੰ ਨੇਵਰਾਣੰ ॥ ਘਰੰ ਘੰਘਰਾਣੰ ॥੩੧॥
While moving, his anklets rattle and the small bells jingle.31.
ਚਤਰ ਬਾਂਹ ਚਾਰੰ ॥ ਨਿਜੂਟੰ ਸਧਾਰੰ ॥
He hath four winsome arms and on his head, his long hair has been bound in a lovely knot.
ਗਦਾ ਪਾਸ ਸੋਹੰ ॥ ਜਮੰ ਮਾਨ ਮੋਹੰ ॥੩੨॥
The mace with him appears splendid, which fascinate the honour of Yama.32.
ਸਭੰ ਜੀਭ ਜਆਲੰ ॥ ਸ ਦਾੜਹਾ ਕਰਾਲੰ ॥
His tongue red like fire seems magnificent and his grinder teeth are very frightening.
ਬਜੀ ਬੰਬ ਸੰਖੰ ॥ ਉਠੇ ਨਾਦ ਬੰਖੰ ॥੩੩॥
His conches and drums resound like the thundering sound of the sea. 33.
ਸਭੰ ਰੂਪ ਸਿਆਮੰ ॥ ਮਹਾ ਸੋਭ ਧਾਮੰ ॥
His dark form looks elegant and is the abode of Great Glory.
ਛਬੇ ਚਾਰ ਚਿਤਰੰ ॥ ਪਰੇਅੰ ਪਵਿਤਰੰ ॥੩੪॥
On his face there are lovely delineations, which are superbly holy. 34.
Why Anti Dasam People Make Such Claims
- Lack of Research and understanding of Gurmat
- Ignorance of literary genre (ਮਾਇਆਧਾਰੀ ਅਤਿ ਅੰਨਾ ਬੋਲਾ ॥)
- unknowingness of Sikh History
- Stubbornly persistent in wrongdoing (ਮਨਹਠਿ ਮਤੀ ਬੂਡੀਝ ਗਰਮਖਿ ਸਚ ਸ ਤਾਰਿ ॥੧॥))
- Getting Monetary benefits or under pressure of some Anti-Gurmat Agents like RSS or Christian Societies.
- Unnecessary Aggression for some non Gurmat philosphies, without understanding what is true and what is false in them.
- Egotism devoid of full knowledge
How to Deal with these people
Just keep quiet, and let these elements continue the whooping speech. One should continue with Gurmat research. BE GURMUKH not SCHOLAR. ਛਾਡਿ ਮਨ ਹਰਿ ਬਿਮਖਨ ਕੋ ਸੰਗ ॥