User talk:Hari singh/ArchiveC

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My side, no my side

Bhai Sahib ji, After reading the history of the talk pages and the artical itself, I (a fairly neutral observer) would be inclined to revert the page to the edit by - Revision as of 04:52, 9 June 2010 (edit) Dilpreet Singh (Talk | contribs).

Then I suggest locking the page and putting a note at the top or bottom, like the one on castes, ect. (the blue boxes) that states there is a great deal of controvercy, ect. please at your positive and negative comments and links in the appropriate section on the talk pages.

Then put a section on the talk page for people to spew their personal hatred or post their civil comments both pro or negative.

I know little of this issue, my only wish is that the truth wins out. Reading all the comments, ect., it seems that the posting by Sunny ji, who I know is the son of a Sikh whose support for Khalistan can not be doubted (nor can Sunny's) is most credible. When he says that the Gentleman said nothing negative about Guru Gobind Singh, I am prone to believe him.

Recently several Muslims and many Christians have been killed, because someone yelled blasphemy. Only (making up a charge) such as I saw him crumble a line from the Qur'an got the Christians burned to death. The Muslim was killed because someone who had a grudge, said he saw him crumple a page of a calendar that had lines from the Qur'an.

Hate is pretty obvious when one sees it. People act and form opinions, without bothering to check the facts.

Regards, I will stay clear of this obviously 'political' business.

Added link to this story today in Dawn news, http://blog.dawn.com/2010/07/27/its-societys-fault/

Allenwalla 12:18, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

About Prof. Darshan Singh Khalsa page

Hanji veerji,

Whatever is easy for you is okay with me.

A shadow page might be better, that way once I've made changes, I can send you a message. With that way, you wouldn't have to keep checking changes and I can group changes together so it's more efficient.

I won't be making changes in the near future. He's not one who cares to "auto-biograph". The information I have posted previously was when a child asked about his history during one of the camps at the academy - luckily someone wrote it out. I'm trying to find a template of questions that I can ask him and I could post those answers.

Okay veerji, thank you for your hospitality. -- ਇਕਾ ਬਾਣੀ ਇਕ੝ ਗ੝ਰ੝ ਇਕੋ ਸਬਦ੝ ਵੀਚਾਰਿ ॥ (eikaa baanee eik gur eiko sabadh veechaar.) 19:18, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Wrong Presentation by Bhai Gurdas

No one needs to vouch for Bhai Gurdas ji compositions; his association with Guru Arjan and the holy Granth is proof of his Gurmat credentials.

this version is against dhanna's own wording and guru ram dass.

Neither of our Gurus present Love in this form like Bhai Gurdas did in this Vaar. Gurus had this example, why not they gave in his bani. Why not guru performed this act, and what was problem with Guru Angad Dev and Guru Amar Dass why they Left DEVI worship? They could have perform that by HEART?

The line which you have given shows importance to Love with God not Tiraths etc. In This Sakhi what Dhanna is doing, read:

ਪਥਰ੝ ਇਕ੝ ਲਪੇਟਿ ਕਰਿ ਦੇ ਧੰਨੈ ਨੋ ਗੈਲ ਛ੝ਡਾਵੈ । The brahman rolled a stone, gave it to Dhanna and thus got rid of him.

ਠਾਕ੝ਰ ਨੋ ਨ੝ਹਾਵਾਲਿ ਕੈ ਛਾਹਿ ਰੋਟੀ ਲੈ ਭੋਗ੝ ਚੜ੝ਹਾਵੈ । Dhanna bathed the Thakur and offered him bread and buttermilk.

ਹਥਿ ਜੋੜਿ ਮਿਨਤਿ ਕਰੈ ਪੈਰੀ ਪੈ ਪੈ ਬਹ੝ਤ੝ ਮਨਾਵੈ । With folded hands and falling at the feet of the stone he begged for his service to be accepted.

ਹਉ ਭੀ ਮ੝ਹ੝ ਨ ਜ੝ਠਾਲਸਾਂ ਤੂ ਰ੝ਠਾ ਮੈ ਕਿਹ੝ ਨ ਸ੝ਖਾਵੈ । Dhanna said, “I will also not eat because how can I be happy if you are annoyed.”

See how dhanna is rolling around stones. No Single line is present in Granth of attaining parmeshwar using this technique and no record anywhere is present this technique of attaining parmeshar.

Dhanna is loving stone here not God. He is keeping fast.

on one side you are saying this is against gurmat on other side you are saying if i will perform all these acts with LOVE then i will surely get it. Kindly give me one viewpoint.

sir i m now suspecting on vaars, are these real or adulterated later, i haven't read such thing even in dasam granth, which is under great controversy. Dal mei kuch kala hai.

do one thing in idol worship add the point with bhai gurdas vaar: that if you do idol worship with love n devotion, or you become stubborn and leave food(but all in locve) you will definmately attain god.

or should i add this refering vaar? (paapi 01:08, 28 July 2010 (UTC))

kindly read my answer in NRI

Sir, i hv replied ur question but i think u hv not read it,kindly read my answer in NRI on ur this talk page. Thnx. Sarbjeet Singh

Mysticism

mysticism

Hari ji, Reading the page on Freedom and Leela, i was surprised to see the line - …and began to practice mysticism as prescribed by Guru Nanak and Sikhism. I realized that this was a word I had rarely seen in these articles.

Looking mysticism up on wikipedia, though every other religion is mentioned, there is even a list of religions in which mysticism plays a part, Sikhism is not mentioned at all.

Perhaps you know someone qualified to write on Sikhi and mysticism.

The page on yoga has this line - Both Yoga and Sikhism are essentially mystical faiths. Yet it also says - Sikhism rejects the traditional forms and practices of yoga…

Yet the SGGS has this among many mentions of yoga:


ਕਹਨ ਕਹਾਵਨ ਕਉ ਕਈ ਕੇਤੈ ॥ ਝਸੋ ਜਨ੝ ਬਿਰਲੋ ਹੈ ਸੇਵਕ੝ ਜੋ ਤਤ ਜੋਗ ਕਉ ਬੇਤੈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

ਦ੝ਖ੝ ਨਾਹੀ ਸਭ੝ ਸ੝ਖ੝ ਹੀ ਹੈ ਰੇ ਝਕੈ ਝਕੀ ਨੇਤੈ ॥ ਬ੝ਰਾ ਨਹੀ ਸਭ੝ ਭਲਾ ਹੀ ਹੈ ਰੇ ਹਾਰ ਨਹੀ ਸਭ ਜੇਤੈ ॥੧॥

Kahan kahĝvan ka­o ka­ī kėṯai. Aiso jan birlo hai sėvak jo ṯaṯ jog ka­o bėṯai. ॥1॥ rahĝ­o.

Ḏukẖ nĝhī sabẖ sukẖ hī hai rė ėkai ėkī nėṯai. Burĝ nahī sabẖ bẖalĝ hī hai rė hĝr nahī sabẖ jėṯai.॥1॥

Many speak and talk about God.

But one who understands the essence of Yoga - such a humble servant is very rare ((1)(Pause))
He has no pain - he is totally at peace. With his eyes, he sees only the One Lord.
No one seems evil to him - all are good. There is no defeat - he is totally victorious. (1))

The following lines, referring to Bhai Gurdas, repeated on many pages, is about the only other time the word mysticism is mentioned:

Bhai Gurdas in his Varan has used it as being synonymous with the absolute, the Creator in a number of places (I. 49, IV. 17, VI. 5, IX. 13, XI. 3 and 8, XII. 17, XII. 2, XXIV. 1, Xl. 22). This prolific use by one whose philosophical exposition of Sikh metaphysics and mysticism…

What word would one use in Punjabi for mysticism?

Allenwalla 23:52, 19 August 2010 (EDT)

a book of interest - History of Sikh Gurus Retold and a very interesting video

Reading a page entitled Amir ul Imla, i wanted to do a little further reading on the subject. This led me to a very interesting book, much of which is available on the net (at least to page 14)

History of Sikh Gurus Retold: 1469-1606 C.E By Surjit Singh Gandhi - link -> http://books.google.com/books?id=qw7-kUkHA_0C&printsec=frontcover&dq=Muntakhab%20Ul%20Haqaiq&source=gbs_slider_thumb#v=onepage&q&f=false

Rab Rakha, Allenwalla 09:29, 20 August 2010 (EDT)

also please watch: my wife was watching this video , how muslims are treated in america, (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqbQWxHIn4U ) although the video is about the style of dress of a Muslim, many sikhs have run into this as well.

Canada, from a story in al jazeera

I had not read of the 1987 event.

Historically, dating back to the outbreak of World War I, boats carrying Sikhs, Jews or Chinese have always met with an almost irrational hysteria, orchestrated by the Liberal and Conservative governments of the day.…


…Ottawa wants to confirm that the migrants are not associated with the Tamil Tigers [REUTERS] As recently as 1987, Brian Mulroney, the then prime minister, called parliament back from its summer recess to debate the fallout from the arrival of a boatload of Sikhs from India. The heated rhetoric centred on the possibility that Canada was becoming a haven for those fighting for an independent "Khalistan" carved out of India.

The second factor is a fallout from the so-called Khalistan phenomenon.


Also, perhaps i have asked too many questions or managed to cancel out the auto notice of mail.

2 questions of last week (see above):

question on mysticism - a comparable word in the SGGS/ or in Panjabi

and

a book of interest - History of Sikh Gurus Retold and a very interesting video

Reading a page entitled Amir ul Imla, led me to do a little further reading on the subject. This led to a very interesting book, much of which is available on the net (at least to page 40)

History of Sikh Gurus Retold: 1469-1606 C.E By Surjit Singh Gandhi - link -> http://books.google.com/books?id=qw7-kUkHA_0C&printsec=frontcover&dq=Muntakhab%20Ul%20Haqaiq&source=gbs_slider_thumb#v=onepage&q&f=false

Rab Rakha, Allenwalla 09:29, 20 August 2010 (EDT)

also please watch: my wife was watching this video , how muslims are treated in america, (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqbQWxHIn4U ) although the video is about the style of dress of a Muslim, many sikhs have run into this as well. it seems more and more americans are attacking the fringe voices of hate.

copy to:

Sardar ji, in my dreams last night it occurred to me that I should have looked to see who had posted the story on Hacienda de Guru Ram Das‎, so I am now copying the letter I sent to Gmustuk last night:

Sir, I made a few changes on the page - Hacienda de Guru Ram Das‎ today. My concern is if i have linked to the correct pages. The 3 external links are in this line -

To learn more about our lifestyle at HGRD, please visit 3HO Foundation [1] and Sikh Dharm [2] or [3].

There are so many pages - these seemed the correct ones.

Please review, Rab Rakha, Allenwalla 20:56, 27 August 2010 (EDT)


Sajid KHan apologized

As you know Sajid KHan apologized for his comments against sikh martial act and he agreed that he did not know much about this tradition.

In second round bir khalsa group again performed and judges commented it brilliant.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNA-kYIxGoM

(Lucky 09:00, 29 August 2010 (EDT))

sharing

A link for all of you, This was the center story this morning, waking at 3am I looked at the new york times site after enjoying HARPREET'S ji's link to the Gatka round 2 show, the scooter over the two heads seemed to bring the fearful faces this time.

The Harmandar Sahib being at the center of the Times story was icing on the cake. http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2010/08/29/world/asia/INDIA.html.

Rab Rakha to all, Allenwalla 03:31, 30 August 2010 (EDT)

Waheguru ji ka KHalsa Waheguru ji ki fateh

Khalsa ji, i have to start an article. It is generally said one could not read charitropakhyan before mothers and sisters which is correct as this is study of mature person and of course for males which loss their balance while watching women. which took decisions blindly following woman without using upon their own mind. Gurbani also said so. So The subject was put before by guru sahib to make khalsa parpakh from every pakh of life.

Though as this is subject of Kaam so it is obvious that words related to Kaam will come which is read by mature and interpret it before public, some foolish people are just picking few lines not whole to make granth down. Which is itself not gurmat methodology but cheating.

Now i want to create an article to answer to those people who use to say that Bani could not be written in such words. There are Many - Many lines in Guru Granth Sahib itself which used bed scenes(describing husband wife relation) and other terms like prostitution etc, which are totally ignored by these people.

These people could not understand this fact that Even Guru Granth Sahib, DHUR KI BANI also used such terminology and gurmat is not bound to terminology. Neither Dasam Granth have written anything which these people haven't done in life. This will not degrade the granth because we will give meanings sidewise too, that we are sikhs who understand how to read this content and how to interpret it.

So i am not getting suitable title for that could you pls suggest?

1) Gurmat and Vulgarity
2) Guru Granth Sahib and Kaam Rass Poetry

suggest any...more appropriate which not hurt someone's sentiments and looks ok

(Lucky 17:57, 30 August 2010 (EDT))


Third Killer Performance

Bir Khalsa Group Third Killer Group. Sajid Comment that now he believe that KHalsa have power to stand before lakhs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuYxeE8XKrw

Begging

Bhai Sahib ji, I made some changes to the page on begging, please review. This morning coming back to the page (when I woke my computer up) the caption 'glared' at me and as I had never liked the sentence (caption), rather it had always bothered me. I slowed down and read it 'word by word'. After seeing the illustration many times I FINALLY NOTICED the but. So please check the caption now. Also I added a suggestion that people should remind Sadhus and Rishis about Langar and local Gurdwaras. I have seen pictures of such Hindu Holy men in the Golden Temple, years ago, but as Sikhs living in India know such men are probably set in their ways, I doubt anyone would bother to try to get them to a Gurdwara. Perhaps I am a little naive to even suggest inviting them to Langar. In the many films I have viewed on The Harmandar Sahib, I have seen none in the videos.

God Bless, Allenwalla 11:26, 4 October 2010 (EDT)

Will delete to history later.

2nd question of the morning

Sardar ji, one more of my endless questions.

Showing my wife the latest Bir Khalsa 3 Semi Final video this morning, I noticed the photo the Elder Sardars (probably younger than me) gave the judges, only had illustrations of the 10 Human Gurus, but not a picture of the Guru Granth Sahib. Is there a reason for this, as the Granth is the perpetual Guru for Sikhs, it seemed odd to leave it out of the illustrations.

Also as I can understand only a little of the words, not in english, who were the Sardars presenting the photos? Also I would treasure a copy of the photo, perhaps you can advise me where to get one.

Rab Rakha, Allenwalla 12:03, 4 October 2010 (EDT)

Needed translation

Sat Sri Akaal, Sir could you help with an English translation of user:Tojfauj's addition (from Sirdar Kapur Singh's True Stories, Sachi Sakhi ) to the page on Lala Lajpat Rai‎, as many people, like myself, cannot read Gurmukhi. Hence we have no idea what is being said.

Looking at user:Tojfauj's page I see he or she has not replied to several requests for a little Bio information or to a request for an English translation of the text.

Rab Rakha, Allenwalla 07:24, 10 October 2010 (EDT)

Thanks very much

Sardarji, Excellent job. I will add to the page, if this is not a problem?

Rab Rakha, Allenwalla 09:20, 11 October 2010 (EDT)

Thanks for adding comments

Hari ji, I hope moderator was not an insult, I don't know your accurate title. You are calm and collected, very diplomatic. I am a little less subtle, or tactful when someone fires off insults, rather than contributing themselves.

An interesting solution:

Just wanted to share something I came across will reading background before i commented.

http://sakshijuneja.com/blog/2008/04/08/do-not-spit-bhagwan-ke-wastey/

I noted that no mention of anything to do with Sikhi was said in the story above. I had the thought that anger might ensue, but then I realized there was no need for that, as Sikhs don't go around spitting tobacco or betel juice, because of the Guru's teaching.

Regards, Allenwalla 21:04, 12 October 2010 (EDT)

also, a miracle - the NY Times link to a live feed of the rescue of miners http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/10/12/latest-updates-on-the-rescue-of-the-chilean-miners/?hp

A page with no text

Hari ji, I came across a page - Gurdwara Nanaksar Sahib, while checking to see if we had a page on the Gurdwara at Hari ke Pattan. The page has only a few photos, one with a sign post in Gurmukhi.

Again I need your help, I don't think the whole sign board needs translation, a location/directions, perhaps. I couldn't find anything here on the Harike Lakeside Gurdwara, but I did add one of many links (a youtube video) of the beautiful Gurdwara.

Thanks for your help.

Allenwalla 15:26, 13 October 2010 (EDT)

Well, a bit of news

Haven't read the whole story yet, but wanted to let you know. Have not even heard this in the US news. http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/columnists/jawed-naqvi-can-obama-ignore-bhagat-singh-400

From my side this is very exciting, for such a visit would greatly increase the awareness of just who the Sikhs are,

Kind Regards


Professor Darshan SIngh's article

Article is rightly written. Kindly add these two images in the article. If you are damn follower of Prof. Darshan Singh Khalsa, then no need to add. Thanks.

posted by Hpt luckytalk

Veerji

Dear Veerji,

I added my comments to the request by Hpt Lucky ji to add the letter's from the jathedar's.

If possible please add those as well as the previous update I stated with regards to the first paragraph.

As well, are we still planning to do a shadow page?

Thank you ji. --ਇਕਾ ਬਾਣੀ ਇਕ੝ ਗ੝ਰ੝ ਇਕੋ ਸਬਦ੝ ਵੀਚਾਰਿ ॥ (eikaa baanee eik gur eiko sabadh veechaar.) 05:22, 21 October 2010 (EDT)

Dear veerji.

I totally agree with you with regards to the "present" political nature of the panth.

Akal Takhat was built purposely to face Harmandir Sahib for the precise reason you state. The Granth (Gurbani) and Panth (Political) go hand in hand, but we can only move forward in our decisions if our decisions are enlightened by the Guru's ideology.

Most religions in this time say that Religion and Politics cannot go hand in hand (not necessarily Church and State [that I agree should be separated]), yet our Guru's placed Akal Takhat within the same complex as the most religious asthan for Sikh's world wide - we even recite its importance daily in our ardaas. What sets us apart is our Guru, and the concept of Miri-Piri, where we can harness both our Guru's bachan and use it to set forth our policies as a Sikh Panth.

The only issue we have presently are the wrong people doing seva at those posts. If they were to tread using the Guru as their guide, all our Panthic (Political) issues would disappear, one by one.

It's easy to fend off our political issues like every other religious community in the world and re-state the separation of Panth and Granth, but remember a valid distinction. We are not referring to the politics of a nation and religion (e.g., India, Punjab, USA); our panth is only related to those responsibilities placed upon the Akal Takhat - to be a beacon of light for the Panth with the use of the Granth.

Don't be discouraged by such challenges - we have a responsibility to both the Granth and the Panth*, we cannot not take one and not the other. I hope my comments were sober. Thank you veerji for everything you have done!

Thank you ji! --ਇਕਾ ਬਾਣੀ ਇਕ੝ ਗ੝ਰ੝ ਇਕੋ ਸਬਦ੝ ਵੀਚਾਰਿ ॥ (eikaa baanee eik gur eiko sabadh veechaar.) 00:55, 22 October 2010 (EDT)


Sorry Sir

Sir it's all my mistake, i forget that we also maintain articles on Ram Rai, prithi Chand, Dhir Mall, Sri Chand...so why not Professor Darshan ji??

sorry for my sayings, if any help needed in the article do tell. (Lucky 09:47, 22 October 2010 (EDT))

Thanks

Question

Bhai Saheb ji, I have a rather important question. Reading a news story this morning - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/10/23/us-sikhs-urge-obama-to-vi_n_772632.html?ref=fb&src=sp#sb=605438,b=facebook - has left me wondering just what head covering can a male wear to visit a Gurdwara. Is something like a baseball hat out of bounds?

A so called baseball hat is an official uniform for officers on warships in the US Navy. Would a Kashmiri hat like Nehru and many Hindu politicians wear have to be removed, if a Jew who wears a kippah (part of his religious dress) have to change his head covering, or a jew who wears only a homburg (again as used as part of his religion) need to doff his hat.

What if the Pope were to visit a Gurdwara or the Harmandar Saheb (he also wears a white kippah when not wearing his mitre) have to change his head covering. If a tiny bit of cloth (no more than a handkerchief) is sufficient why not a hat? Its good that barefeet are such a universal thing that while a head covering is being bandied about in the press, as a reason the American Pres. might have to skip a visit to the Harmandar Sahib, taking off his shoes would not cause such a problem.

What head coverings are acceptable? Jesus is often depicted in paintings, wearing a simple white scarf, unfortunately Bin Laden has been photographed wearing the same.

Thanks Allenwalla 12:39, 23 October 2010 (EDT)

Veerji, I also noticed the 3 way conversation over the politics concerning the Akal Takht and the election of the Jathedar. Is the video you spoke of in English, I have not found any mention of the video's title - youtube or whichever site. Perhaps it is the http://www.ggsacademy.com/youth/camp/camp7-2010 ?

Another sad bit of news

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/news/pakistan/99-bomb-blast-baba-farid-shrine-pakpattan-ik-03

Allenwalla 16:27, 25 October 2010 (EDT)

Problem

Bhai Sahib ji, a new user - Shibakuma - had emptied a page and replaced it with an ad. It is now as it was.

Allenwalla 06:04, 26 October 2010 (EDT)

more extensive story

http://public.dawn.com/2010/10/26/saints-and-sinners.html?pid=1321

ta ta, off to the Dentist / AW

Thanks

Went for fillings, unfortunately ended up loosing a tooth - an unexpected surprise.

Hope they publish your post, it seems to be a group of extremists, who want their way at any cost. One person can strike terror by blowing himself up - killing many, like the events under Pol Pot, any one who thinks - is eliminated.

Those who have been caught for planning the suicide missions, have been freed by the courts in Pakistan - not one conviction.

Daily they have pictures of the policemen and soldiers arresting the militants, funny they cover the heads of the criminals, but make the policemen's faces known - so they can be hunted down and killed.

The educated Muslim leaders who speak for any education other than that by a 'primitive uneducated maulvi teaching people only to recite Arabic, (not to grasp the concepts), are being killed - one by one. Daily they kill any tribal leader(elders) who questions them.


Veer ji, the pain pill the Dentist has given me, is, plus the usual lack of sleep, making me very dizzy. See (talk) to you later.

Rabb Rakah, Allenwalla 13:08, 27 October 2010 (EDT)

How to Delete the account from sikhi wiki

could you please explain how to delete account from sikhiwiki, including contributions? (Avtarsinghdelhi 19:20, 27 October 2010 (EDT))

Reply to Bhai sahib

As the account has been deleted, I have posted the reply here so that it is available to anyone who stumbles onto this request via a search via Google or other search engine.

Bhai Sahib, Avtar Singh ji

All that needs to be done to delete an account is - Just request for it to be done and soon the account will be deleted.

Many thanks for your time and dedication. May Waheguru's thought always be in your heart, Hari Singhtalk 08:02, 28 October 2010 (EDT)

avtarsinghdelhi

Sir i was watching you have deleted an account which still appears. is deletion ininite time ban or removal of users and contribution. and where to put request if someone want ID to be deleted? to user page or at other site? (Lucky 17:16, 28 October 2010 (EDT))

    • Is this bug with sikhiwiki do talk with gmustak singh about this, one could create user articles too

I think people see it as a bit show-offy.

Hari ji, I hope she has a better visit than I did, getting harder and harder to eat things like peanuts, etc.

Here is another story about life in Mumbai. It does seem over the top, about 27 stories.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/29/world/asia/29mumbai.html?_r=1&hp - Home for Super Rich Tests India’s Values

Allenwalla 18:24, 28 October 2010 (EDT)

Any article that begins with Guru Nanak Sahib…

Veer ji, another article on the 'Western Punjab'.

http://blog.dawn.com/2010/11/03/attacking-shrines-and-the-culture-of-peace/

Allenwalla 08:52, 3 November 2010 (EDT)

This is a note my wife sent to some friends this morning, ‎"God is music". Judge the Taliban by their opposition to music, and therefore to something essential. Being judgmental has its' place, eh? Oh...and this one might make you cry...like it did me.

She attached this link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlccsLr48Mw

Given the current main page with the passage from the SGGS, “I am a sacrifice, my soul is a sacrifice, to those who look beautiful in the Name of the Lord, Har, Har. The Gurmukhs sing , the Gurmukhs dance, and focus their consciousness on the Lord. ((1)(Pause))”

I'm passing it on to you. The music may be different, but …

Have

Have a very nice Bandi Chhorh Divas celebration. Glad you enjoyed the video. Allenwalla 16:12, 5 November 2010 (EDT)

Fact

http://www.historicalgurudwaras.com/Files/BandiChodDivas.php

Sir Bandi CHorh Divas is celebrated at Gwalior.

On Diwali Day, Guru Hargobind Ji Reached here at Amritsar. Bandi chorh diwas is the day when he was expelled from prison. The facts are collected by Itihaasakgurudwara.com, even they have phone number of that place(Gwalior gurdwara) you could call there and ask to them.

Bandi Chorh Divas is celebrated at Gwalior on ->

BANDI CHOD DIWAS WAS THE DAY ON WHICH SHRI GURU HARGOBIND SAHIB JI GOT RELEASED FROM FORT GWALIOR. AND THAT DAYS FALLS ON "ASU DI MASYA" WHICH IS STILL CELEBERATED AT GURUDWARA SHRI BANDI CHOD SAHIB, GWALIOR.

DIWALI WAS THE DAY ON WHICH GURU SAHIB REACHED AMRITSAR. AND ON HIS ARRIVAL DEEPMALA WAS DONE AT SHRI HARIMANDIR SAHIB.

Today people like Singh Sabha Canda, Darshan Singh and party, missionaries and others say that bandi chorh diwas and Diwali have no link. You can add there data on website too. To make Neutral Article. i you want then i can provide their links (Lucky 14:13, 7 November 2010 (EST))

Facebook Connect

Isn't it teasing the look? i felt it quite teasing on top of article, article start with like or unlike. Well just sharing pic of gurdwara bharuch situated at Narmada River in Gujrat where guru nanak halted during his travels. There are 3 -4 historical shrines in gujrat cared by sikhs there mostly traders. Attraction is Lakhpat Sahib where i haven't got chance to visit but these shrines which are even unknown are explored through this media. Will make fully referenced article soon. Gurudwara Pehli Patshahi (Baroch) (Lucky 15:34, 10 November 2010 (EST))


Sandy Travels and nanak Travels to mecca

Hello Sir, Kindly visit the following link,

it contains a page of Sandy Travels who went to arabia during his tour.

Now days thispage is quoted by our sikhs to prove that nanak went to mecca. I read whole page but i am not getting where actually it is written that he went to mecca or where is the sign which support that nanak went there or something like this. The page is blurred in look, have a look on this so that i could warn these scholars or missionaries that they are taking wrong page to prove this fact and it have no relation with nanak.

if it has relation with nanak kindly simplify the whole writing and tell the line number which support this. I am trying to read it but i am not getting whcat story actually is going on. if you have your personal book of SANDY Travels by George Sandy, kindly put this page online so that one could read clearly.

Do collaborate.......thanks (Lucky 14:04, 11 November 2010 (EST))


The Link and etc.

Sir the image is uploaded.

Sandy Travel Page 97

In General The finders says, ->

The Page No. 97 of" Sandys's Travels(1673)" gives a valuable reference.This page relates a story which George Sandys got from Mecca itself.According to the story, A Saint from India proved that God is in all directions and every where.It is "erroneously" said that God or the prophet is born only in Mecca.He( Definitly, Satguru Nanak Sahib, the esteemed Saint( from India, in the dress of Hagee), made it "open to the whole world" that God or their prophet is not only confined to Mecca only.Thanks to George Sandy for digging out this Panthic information, after just 92 years later from 1519.In 1611, Sandy went to Zedda Mecca, Madina for his business and happened to find this statement of Almighty Satguru Nanak Sahib.

Page No. 97 of Sandy`s Travels gives a new light to Satguru`s visit to Macca and Madina.For his business puorpose, George Sandy went to Zedda, Mecca and Madina, and happened to get tis precious information about Almighty Satguru Nanak Sahib. This information was send to author of article by Mr. Ryan, Librarian of Reference Library, Ontario Museum, Toronto, on March 23, 2010( by courtesy of Sandy`s Travels Containing The Original and The Present State of Turkish Empire, published by Crown in Little Britain,London,1673).


I Suspect the information, I want you to go through, because i have read histories, historians have written many thing anti Gurmat, and some do stupid things i.e to related something without any reason. So have a look and tell that is this genuine. if it is not then we should say sikhs to stop giving wrong examples because once other persons will read this they will laugh at sikhs.

now i am working on other side of site i.e REFERENCING, so that our article look more original. I will reference whole barhuch article, for dates i have to reference prof sahib singh and i will do that shortly.

(Lucky 02:05, 12 November 2010 (EST))

Wasn't trying to convey anything.

Hari ji, I had found that page with the following:

Golden temple fix fulll.jpg

Part of a series on
Sikhism

Sikh practices
History of Sikhism
Sikh Beliefs
Sikh

Sanskar
Sikh rites
Personal

Gurdwaras
History
Websites

Sikhi Terms
Scriptures
Media
Practices

Places
Sakhis
Beliefs
News


Articles on Sikhism

DAWN.COM ON FACEBOOK

dawn.com on Facebook , he is strong".

at the beginning of the article. I wondered why it was there and thought I had removed it. Apparently I missed erasing the words - he is strong.

some thoughts on the page in Sandy's Travels

I wondered what was this about, so I found the page in readable form [4].

Reading the page there is no mention of anyone from India or the east. In 1519 there was no country called India, even in 1673 when the 154 yr old story was told there still wasn't a country known as India. When the English got there there was only some Princely states, a few odds and ends and the Mughal Kingdom called 'Hindoostan'. The idea of a united India came well after the 1857 rebellion, not forgetting the Khalsa Raj of Ranjit Singh. (I also left out the little fiefdoms of the other european countries).

Reading the page that Lucky ji has referred to, there is , I repeat - NO MENTION of anyone from India.

What the page does say is:

After a description of how the returning camels have their hairs pulled as holy relics, and are then cut up into morsels (little gobbets) given to friends and and familiars (I guess the thought was that that eating a camel who had been to 'Mecha' would make one holier?)

Then - He that returns and spurns the world (giveth over the world) giving himself over to contemplation is considered a saint. Called 'Hages' they adorn their camels with a chain for each pilgrimage they have taken to 'Mecha".

In the next line, the writer attempts to say the Mohammedans are wrong about their prophet. He writes:

In that city of Mecha, some say, (he uses the old enlish f for s) their False Prophet was born (ie. he as a Christian is calling, Mohammed a false prophet), but erroneously.

He uses the word erroneous to reinforce his statement that their Prophet was not a prophet (i.e. according to him they are wrong/have an erroneous belief).

After that there is a description of the Muslim Prophet's grave in Medina and a final mention of how well Cairo was provisioned. I guess that city was where he first saw eggs hatched by artificial heat.

No where is anyone related to India, Asia or the Sikh religion ever mentioned.

Perhaps, Bhai Harpal Singh Kasoor, has made this assumption about Guru Nanak. How did this ever get started, is someone purposely pulling someones's leg?

Respectfully,

Allenwalla 01:16, 13 November 2010 (EST)

One net page has the book for sale for USD $2,500. I doubt you would ever get the book. If it is real why hasn't google scanned it? There is also said to be a copy in an Australian library archive.

You also kindly read page

allenwalla did nice explanation and i also thought that it's not there. I have to make article on it so that this page do not get popularise or should not quoted by anyone, because few sites are blindly quoting this page without having knowledge of it as we are here to write truth, so i want to write this truth too.

http://www.tattgurmatparivar.com/ also write same page....

so youth are quoting this page in punjab too and that too blindly... (Lucky 05:58, 13 November 2010 (EST))

I Think we should start an article on this

  • Sandy Travels - Page 97 and Mecca, to expose fake records newly inserted in sikhism due to vague knowledge of blind devotees. Sikhs should engligten of these facts, as you said janamsakhis and gurdas vaar is more then enough to prove, but this wrong documentations should not be quoted at all, i kindly you write preface of it, so that it gives neutral effect, we can write fully reerenced article on it. What do you think? FAKE RESEARCHES (Lucky 21:34, 13 November 2010 (EST))

Religious Casteism alive and well in Nankana District

http://www.dawn.com/2010/11/12/christian-woman-sentenced-to-death-in-blasphemy-case-2.html

All this over touching a water bowl… a few rumors… a sentence of death. The area’s come a long way since Guru Nanak’s and Pir Budhan Ali Shah’s years?

Allenwalla 06:52, 19 November 2010 (EST)


A follow up.

You wouldn’t know what he is talking about from the title of the story - Venting my spleen. but Irfan Husain tackles the way the blasphemy law is being used in Pakistan today.

http://www.dawn.com/2010/11/20/by-irfan-husain-7.html

"I was mesmerised by Punjabi music."

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/news-and-interviews/Shes-Danish-and-sings-in-Punjabi/articleshow/6787129.cms

An interesting story - "I just love to sing in Punjabi. The music and the beats are lively. There's also this certain spirit, which makes people love this type of mucic,"

Read more: She's Danish and sings in Punjabi -

The Times of India http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/entertainment/music/news-and-interviews/Shes-Danish-and-sings-in-Punjabi/articleshow/6787129.cms#ixzz15qGo5EJa

I am Starting an article

should i start the article(Lucky 12:28, 21 November 2010 (EST))


Negative

By Saying opposite to their wishes is itself negative. If we will not say negative and will go diplomatically then it is of no use. What we could do is :
1) Convert that page into text 2) Write something about sandy's travel 3) Give misinterpretations of page used by people. 4) tell the right way of research. 5) Telling that how bad research is anti to sikhism using adi granth and dasam granth.

You could see in idol worship, what gurus have said to idol worshippers. Ignorants, Fools and Animals....these are not illogical or hatered words. These are words of love, because guru want them to come on way because they are religious and as they are religious so they should get benifit....but if they are on fall practice they are not geting benifit. Thats the love, benifit of their people by telling right way of living. (Lucky 01:52, 22 November 2010 (EST))

Banda Bahadur

Veer ji, Per the complaint about the illustration, used on the page on Banda Bahadur, how does anyone know if he might have made use of a Mughal iron helmet, above his turban. I can understand the issue with the dastar, but could’ t Sikh risaldari make use of any armor taken in battle.

Was it not the custom to reuse weapons and armor including the giant Bhangi top?

I too have noticed the helmet on top of a turban and thought it a little out of place, I am correcting the image, getting rid of the top with the spike. It will take a few days. Allenwalla 10:29, 23 November 2010 (EST)

Sandy Travles

I have Started Work on this article -> Sandy Travel Page 97 - An Invalid Source, which i haven't kept publically viewable. Kindly you and Allenwalla Ji please participate in it. Thanks (Lucky 16:36, 24 November 2010 (EST))

Harpal Singh Kasoor

I have very serious doubts about Harpal Sngh Kasoor's research. Most of his research is assumptions based and he does not provide any reference or proof of any of his assertions.

I would suggest that we have discussion on this and agree on whether to include his reference/links on the travels of various Gurus to Norway/Sweden and other places. If anyone has any contacts of this 'Historian', I think we should give him an opportunity to explain his assertions else all references to his research need to be deleted.

Request you to treat this as most urgent as I think it will impact wikis image as a reliable source of information.

Concerning article on Harpal Singh Kasoor

Bhai Sahib ji, I noticed someone had written concerning the research or writing of Harpal Singh Kasoor in the discussion page of an article on him and also on your talk page. I read the article and it seems to need some work. Perhaps it is the excitement of the writer of the page, but it seems to be a little too much worship of a fellow human being and often is not understandable (i.e. what five teachers come forth in answer to his prayers at Nankana Sahib). Do we need to know every detail of this person’s life, and every detail of his family’s moves and his education?

I know little of the person or of his ‘research’, if he is the person who started the story on ‘Sandy’s travel page, his theory is questionable. I looked at one page concerning his, the Author’s, travels around the world with a picture of him in the center of every page.

New user having odd fun?

Bunniepbutlero -- This name or a slightly different spelling, keeps appearing as a new user account. Don’t know if this is from the same ip address or differing computers but nothing ever seems to be posted.

Good day Sir

I was just making a list…

Bunniezbutlert/ Bunniepbutlere / Bunniepbutlero / Bunniezbutlery / Blinnievgloverw / Bunniembutlerw / Bunniekbutlerr


Mckinneyjybc

Ececohyte

Cecileyjbowersv / Cecileybbowersy

But it seems you must be attending to this already

Allenwalla 10:22, 7 December 2010 (EST)

Sekhon and Vijay Divas / also Maj Bhupinder Singh

With the 16th coming up (Vijay Divas), a main page posting of the stories of Nirmal Jit Singh Sekhon and Maj Bhupinder Singh would be timely. I removed one link as it was no longer posted/active.

Flying Officer Sekhon's last moments, as seen through Flt Lt Mirza's gunsight - link also does not work?

All of the stories however, have several inaccuracies or missing info.

How ever There is a much better tribute (though the author neglects to list any damage done by Sekhon, in no 5 note they even say Sekhon never hit any of their jets) however their admiration of Sekhon is clear!) from the men who fought with him that day. When you enemy takes time to honor you… also the story has an illustration, but of Sekhon trailing smoke.

looking to see if I could find other info on Sekhon, I came across this page, which I will add below. When the page open, you need to toggle down to find the story. It seems, as our story seems to indicate that there was another Indian pilot who got up that day, just before Sekhon - his plane kicked up the cloud of dirt that had landed on the runway from the four 500lb. bombs the first 2 Sabrejets had dropped near the runway. That pilot seems to have stayed far away from the action, perhaps because of the uneven numbers or another problem (refer to no. 3 below the story), he was only spotted once after taking off. None of the linked stories mention their being another Indian pilot up that day save our story indicating it - see Citation -- However, he could not take off at once because of the clouds of dust raised by another aircraft which had just taken off'’’.


I have to wonder if Sekhon had time to wonder where his wingman was?

The page:

1971 Indo Pak War ....

Kashmiri air bases are under repeated Attacks by PAF sabres...

Another Attack is being launched and in that an Indian Gnat Pilot Puts up a Fight against Sabres before Being shot down !

That Pilot was Flg off : Nirmaljit Singh Sekon.

"Some enemies are also Respectable"




Friday, November 21, 2008 A Hard Nut to Crack

Author : Air Commodore (R) Kaiser Tufail.


The much-awaited II Corps offensive on the Western Front got overtaken by events as the 1971 Indo-Pak War headed for a mortifying finale for Pakistan. PAF had been conserving its assets for the all-important battle, which was not to be. Enough pressure was, however, maintained to tie down IAF effort for air defence, as also to demonstrate an offensive resolve. Continual attacks on the forward airfields of Amritsar, Pathankot and Srinagar, were thus part of a carefully considered strategy. In the event, an Indian Army two-pronged offensive in Shakargarh sector had rendered neutralisation of these airfields most crucial.

No 26 Squadron, based at Peshawar, had been assigned to take care of Srinagar airfield. Daily attacks by Sabres had been causing some damage, but the runway repair gangs were ensuring that the airfield was not out of permanent service[1]. The morning of 14th December saw yet another bombing raid led by the Squadron Commander, Wg Cdr Sharbat Ali Changazi. Accompanying him were Flt Lts H K Dotani, Amjad Andrabi and Maroof Mir, whose Sabres were armed with two 500 lbs bombs each. Escorting the 4-ship package were Flt Lts Salim Baig Mirza and Rahim Yusufzai. Altogether it was a formidable force and, given the familiarity with Srinagar, it seemed like it would be another milk run.

After a 25-minute flight through the picturesque hills and vales of western Kashmir, Changazi’s commanding voice broke the radio silence, “Leader pulling up, contact with the target.” The time was 0730 hrs (PST). Dotani, Andrabi and Mir followed at short intervals, none missing the easily visible airfield complex. Popping up to 5,000 ft above ground, they dived one by one to release their bombs on the runway. Baig and Yusufzai loosened into an orbit overhead the airfield, looking out for any interceptors through the relentless Anti-Aircraft Artillery barrage.

Flg Off Nirmal Jit Singh Sekhon of No 18 Squadron was rolling for take-off as No 2 in a two-Gnat formation, just as the first bombs were falling on the runway. Said to have been delayed due to dust kicked up by the preceding Gnat, Sekhon lost no time in singling out the first Sabre pair, which was re-forming after the bombing run. Changazi was, however, quick to detect the attacker behind his wingman. “Gnat behind, all punch tanks,” yelled Changazi. No 3 (Andrabi), who was just pulling out of the attack, was horrified to see the Gnat no more than 1,000 ft and firing at Dotani. “Break left,” called Andrabi, as he himself manoeuvred to get behind the Gnat. Dotani, who had been turning frantically, found his low-powered Sabre tottering at the verge of stall[2]. Unable to hang around any longer with such a precarious energy state, he decided to make a getaway. No 4 (Mir) in the meantime had completed his bombing run and, having no visual contact with the rest, decided to head home as well. The Gnat Leader, Flt Lt Ghuman, had also lost visual with his wingman just after take-off. Said to have failed in re-establishing contact, Ghuman remained out of the fight leaving Sekhon to handle the muddle all by himself.

The fight had turned into a classic tail chase, with a Sabre followed by a Gnat, which in turn was followed by another Sabre. “I am getting behind one but the other is getting an edge on me,” is how Sekhon had described the situation to his controllers. With two more free fighters watching over, the lone Gnat was practically up against four Sabres. Andrabi had, by now, closed in behind the Gnat’s rear quarters and was firing steadily. He was sure that he would get the Gnat, he excitedly forecast on the radio. His Sabre was incessantly spewing out a stream of 0.5” bullets but, despite good aim and textbook range, remained off the mark. What should have been a quick kill dragged on clumsily, testing everyone’s patience and nerves.

The Sabre had enough firepower to riddle a whole formation with bullets, so everyone was dumb-founded when Andrabi’s voice crackled on the radio, “Three is Winchester!” It meant that he had exhausted 1,800 rounds and his guns had stopped firing. The Gnat was still turning circles and it seemed that unless help came fast, Andrabi would soon be at the receiving end.

Changazi was carefully monitoring the dogfight while looking out for the elusive Gnat Leader, whose fleeting glimpse he had caught a while ago[3]. On hearing that Andrabi was spent, Changazi called him to join up as his wingman. Dislodging himself from the Gnat’s tail, Andrabi dutifully moved towards his leader. As the two were forming up, Sekhon took advantage of the slack, straightened out and jettisoned the drop tanks. In the flurry of activity, Sekhon had overlooked a vitally important step and, it was just as well that he shed dead weight for the next round. Nimbler than before, the Gnat could be seen to turn ever more tight as it started to catch up onto Changazi and Andrabi’s pair. Perched on top, the escorts watched in astonishment as the Gnat snatched degrees at a dizzying rate. The situation was getting stickier by the minute and in a couple of turns the Gnat was in a menacing position.

Silver-tongued and gravel-voiced, Andrabi was a class unto himself when he took to the radio. A smattering of expletives ensured that his calls were never disregarded even in the toughest of air combat manoeuvres. Thus, when Andrabi shouted for help against the attacker whose lineage he had declared suspect, everyone took notice! The escorts instantly dived down to grapple with Sekhon, who had turned out to be a hard nut to crack. While Yusufzai covered up as wingman, Baig easily manoeuvred to get behind the Gnat, much to everyone’s relief.

Baig had the privilege of opening his Squadron’s account by shooting down a Hunter near Peshawar, ten days earlier[4]. Since then, he had been in the thick of action in almost every sortie that he went up for. This experience, coupled with his unflappable personality, came in handy as Baig calmly positioned his pipper on the canopy of the Gnat and opened fire. Less than three seconds later the Gnat started to spew thick black smoke. Baig knew it was all over so he stopped firing and watched for the next move.

Meanwhile, the Base Commander and some senior pilots who were in the Air Traffic Control tower to monitor the dogfight, heard Sekhon’s frantic call to his leader, “I think I have been hit. Ghuman, come and get them.” With the mission leader still nowhere to be seen, the baffled ground supervisors tried to help Sekhon with the emergency but to no avail. Baig, who was following behind, saw the Gnat level its wings and head for the airfield, as if to indicate that for him the fight was over. Suddenly, the Gnat went inverted as it dove down uncontrollably from very low height. In all likelihood, the aircraft’s flight control system had failed. Sekhon attempted a last minute ejection as his canopy was seen to fly off, but the height was too low for the ejection system to function fully. The wreckage of the Gnat was found in a gorge, a few miles from the Base.

As the Sabres were reforming for recovery, Andrabi was surprised to notice that his left drop tank was still there, while the right one was gone. The aircraft was skidding to one side, something that he had not felt during the heat of the battle. He now reckoned a bit late why the bullets had not found their mark. Much to everyone’s relief though, Baig had saved the day and the formation made it back to Peshawar, unscathed[5]. Baig’s kill, however, did not get duly noticed, as the mission was seen to be a close call by the Air Staff at the PAF Headquarters. His citation for gallant action thus only made it to the ‘Mentioned in Despatches’ category. An award not withstanding, Baig is highly regarded in the PAF for belonging to the elite club of fighter pilots with multiple kills.

Sekhon, on the other hand, was posthumously awarded the Param Vir Chakra, India’s highest award for wartime gallantry and the only one received by an airman. His was a commendable effort indeed, as he had kept the field single-handedly to the very end.

_________________________

[1] An interesting aside to the attack-and-repair game were warnings delivered to the Garrison Engineer (GE) , Srinagar, through leaflet drops by Sabres. The GE was warned not to repair the runway, else his house would be bombed! The leaflets were inserted in the speed brakes and were released through a momentary pip, just after the actual bomb release – a dicey prank indeed. [2] PAF was flying two versions of the Sabre in the 1971 War - the North American F-86F and the Canadair Sabre Mk-6 (ex-Luftwaffe). The F-86F model that equipped No 26 Squadron had a markedly low-powered engine, which did little to help sustain speed and turn rates in combat. [3] The Gnat Leader was briefly observed by Changazi at a higher altitude than the rest and, flying reciprocal to the direction of the engaged fighters. He was not seen again by any one. [4] Flg Off Kotliezath P Muralidharan of No 20 Squadron was shot down on 4th Dec 1971, following a raid on Peshawar airfield. [5] Contrary to IAF’s citation for Sekhon’s award, none of the Sabres was hit during the dogfight.


This article is an excerpted chapter from Air Cdre Kaiser Tufail's book, Great Air Battles of Pakistan Air Force, published by Ferozsons (Pvt) Ltd, 2005.


The web site where the story was posted.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-history/52626-tale-brave-iaf-pilot.html

Thanks, it seems the whole, correct story of the events should be written, I have started a rewrite, but perhaps you would rather do this yourself. Allenwalla 12:24, 7 December 2010 (EST)

Sri Chand Views

  • IN Sri CHand Article i wrote from GUrbani the viewpoint about Sri CHand. But Some Sri Chand follower Adi Mata(Probably 3HO's Mata), came and changed the article.

1) Gurbani States Sri CHand left sikh Faith and became YOgi
2) Satta Balwand wrote quotes against him and was inserted to granth by guru sahib.
3) HIstory sources said that sri chand have good contact with gurus and many deny this, and either bani is fake or history is true
4) I talked with a 3HO'iya Sri Sarib SIngh Khalsa, he was not speaking anything on the line and was questioning me where it is written not to respect sri chand? i said him but where it is written to respect sri chand? Manmukhs(who turnes their back for gurus) are never respected.
5) Now question is he wrote arta for guru nanak, so we should have sympathy with him. Sir read literature of ram rai and prithi chandis, they wrote many praises of nanak. many anti nanak people even today say nanak is great, but they say this on face of ours. So he wrote aarta (which is not historical proven that written by him or some other), but this is not criteria to respect him.

Now sir question is that Gur Granth is important source of history(if mnentioned) or bhai joginder singh uday singh etc.? the reason i haven't deleted their comments too so that their vichar also persists. but GUru Granth's vichar is more important, and the sri chand lines are so straightly written Sarib Singh KHalsa was not able to change meanings of those lines too.

kindly check and do fainsla, i will make a full section on guru granth sahib views on sri chand path and other section that people who believe in sri chand views on him and which is best....what you think? much i try to run away from controversies, more they come near me....lol

(Lucky 03:10, 15 December 2010 (EST))

    • are you their , this adi mata is removing all references in sri chand article and removing important tatths, kindly tell him her to stop .

Baba Siri Chand's SickiWeaki SikhiWiki Page

Sat Nam Hari Singh, You have locked in a site that is extremely biased towards a negative view of a beloved son of Guru Nanak. When I visited Amritsar in 2006 I was wonderstruck by the love and appreciation expressed by Sikhs visiting his shrine near the Golden Temple. It is not just the Sikhs in 3HO that love and communicate with him in meditation and prayer.

What compelled me to rewrite Baba Siri Chand's Sikhi Wiki page was the following email I received from a Punjabi man who was born near Baba Siri Chand's headquarters in India:

Prabhleen Singh Prabhleen Singh14 December 2010 at 16:45 Subject: Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh! Satnam Guruprem kaur khalsa ji.. i have heard your many comments on a picture of Gursant and got the treasure of Knowledge about our Gurus and Baba siri Chand ji.. About myself- i'm from the place where Baba Siri Chand ji's headquarters was there and i have born there...(May this help you) http://www.facebook.com/l/d08a8VFoO7j7QtITrw_AzKxQcwA;sgpc.net/historical-gurdwaras/gurdwaras_gurdaspur_2.asp

I read about your comments and got a bunch of knowledge many weeks ago though i was unable to contact you...and yes i loved your blog alot with the same....:) anyway my motive to be here is that i want your just a little favor that i want to remove all the negativity from facebook and even from Sikh Dharma like Mr Gursant singh.... So will you please correct and share your knowledge about Baba Siri Chand ji and his links with Guru Ramdas ji and Guru Arjan dev ji...etc.. here...

http://www.facebook.com/l/d08a8PggSa2QqOoxbQGSlci_4TQ;www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Baba_Sri_Chand or http://www.facebook.com/l/d08a8n1M9eE8P7-7V7DmSU7RwWQ;www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php?title=Baba_Sri_Chand&action=edit

Hope you will not call it fake.. I'm sure this will help me and many other people who Gursant Trapped in his negativity.. Satnam!

Regards Prabhleen

Before receiving this letter, I did not even know there was a Baba Siri Chand SikhiWiki page. Yet Baba Siri Chand figures prominently in my life. I spent the whole afternoon that day doing a rewrite of the unfortunately believable negative article. The next morning, after doing my usual 31 minutes of Sat Kriya calling on the Gurus to wash the world, my layout coincided with a Baba Siri Chand tele-seminar led by Siri Gian Kaur, whom Baba Siri Chand works through to give us a guided meditation, breathing from our hearts.

Siri Gian Kaur is an elderly gifted intuitive. Her tele-seminars can be accessed at the link below:

FREE TELETALKS with that great yogi BABA SIRI CHAND [5]

Every Wednesday morning! Relayed by Siri-Gian Kaur. Profound training for moving into the Aquarian Age, along with amazingly transformative group healing.

I pray you are willing to attend her next seminar coming up Wednesday morning Dec. 22nd before making a decision, and experience Baba Siri Chand for yourself.

During those layouts I call on the ten Gurus to empower my ten bodies, but that day Baba Siri Chand filled me with his profound presence and yogic acumen. At the end of the tele-seminar I came back into conscious awareness as Siri Gian Kaur opened it up for comments and questions. I thought to share my meditative experience, but just then my phone died! --Baba Siri Chand, powerful Yogi that he is, may not have felt people were ready to hear it.

That day I painstakingly (it was my first time working on a Wiki site) posted the previous day's caring, loving edit onto Baba Siri Chands SikhiWiki page.

That same night I spoke with a Punjabi friend of mine, an agent for my book "Memoirs of a Yogini." We did a word-by-word fine edit of the entire text I had posted earlier.

I posted our joint edit the next day.

That night I wrote Amandeep Singh, a Punjab/Singapore scholar who is an authority on Baba Siri Chand, whom I have known for fifteen years. He will be teaching a course in my town, Espanola in February hosted by Siri Gian Kaur:

"YOGI MELA with BABA SIRI CHAND, [6]

Kindly understand his qualifications, and why I would write to him as an authority:

Amandeep Singh let us know that Yogi Bhajan actually located Babaji’s very special mantras and kriyas (along with those of other yogis and saints in our Golden Chain of Teachers) in the Akashic Records, then taught them to us through his incredible system of Kundalini Yoga! During his lifetime, Yogi Bhajan actually charged Amandeep Singh, who is a trained KY Teacher, with teaching this very sacred knowledge to us.

Now, here is our great chance to take advantage of this amazing opportunity! Come join us, won’t you? Experience the most mystical, but very real support and transformations in your life as you connect with Baba Siri Chand! Our teacher, Amandeep Singh is a most grounded scholarly researcher of Baba Siri Chand as well as of all our Gurus along with the great history of Sikh Dharma. What a gem we have available to us! Although based in Singapore, he travels around the world, holding the space for their great presence and providing us the solid foundation of our yogic and Sikh roots! Amandeep Singh’s blog is: http://www.yogiamandeepsingh.blogspot.com/ "

Here is my letter to Amandeep Singh: Sat Nam Amandeep Singh, It was brought to my attention that Gursant Singh posted twisted, negative text re Baba Siri Chand, 3HO Sikhs and the Gurus on Baba Siri Chands SikhiWiki site. Because Baba Siri Chand had given me profound Sat Kriya layouts over the past two days, I felt compelled to spend yesterday afternoon editing it and making corrections, and went over it again in the evening with a Punjabi friend to check everything word by word, editing it further.

Today, in adding the distilled text, I found a new entry, a Hukam from SGGS by Balwa and Sata calling Baba Siri Chand a rebel in the translation. Perhaps the Gurmukhi is not as harsh. Meanwhile I softened the commentary.

Please consider adding in the period of time Baba Siri Chand lived with Bibi Nanaki and her husband and correct the date of Baba Siri Chands passing, as several versions are given.

If you are willing to help, kindly go to this link

http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Baba_Sri_Chand#Aarta_by_Sri_Chand


or the attachment to review the site for errors and make corrections and additions as you see best.

If you choose to simply edit the attachment, I will put it on Baba Siri Chand's SikhiWiki site for you.

Amandeep Singh's Response:

satnam blessings, i am all willing to do what i can...i was not able to open the file you attached...as for the hukamnama, this interpretation is that of the singh sabhaias (sgpc), the sant(udasis and nirmalas tradition) translate that differently...

as for this link: http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Baba_Sri_Chand#Aarta_by_Sri_Chand

did you write that, very well written..

thanks amandeep singh


This morning, Thursday, I entered Baba Siri Chand-related correspondences into my memoirs. In so doing I accidently triggered the link to Baba Siri Chand's Wiki site and found the enhanced slanderous version that has, not surprisingly, replaced our careful work.

What was surprising is that SikhiWiki would LOCK IN the negative pitch. It would be better to lock out all versions until you make an informed decision.

By the way, the section of negative text is mostly the top half of the page. That is where I did my editing and corrections. The comments by scholars are all positive. I did not touch those. Although I did amend the top author's list that makes people question Baba Siri Chand's integrity.

Thank you for your willingness to research this thoroughly. All is Guru's Kirpa.

Loving Blessings, SS Guru Prem Kaur Khalsa www.yogagems.com

Rai Balwand and Satta tuks

ਪ੝ਤ੝ਰੀ ਕਉਲ੝ ਨ ਪਾਲਿਓ ਕਰਿ ਪੀਰਹ੝ ਕੰਨ੝ਹ੝ਹ ਮ੝ਰਟੀਝ ॥ ਦਿਲਿ ਖੋਟੈ ਆਕੀ ਫਿਰਨ੝ਹ੝ਹਿ ਬੰਨ੝ਹ੝ਹਿ ਭਾਰ੝ ਉਚਾਇਨ੝ਹ੝ਹਿ ਛਟੀਝ ॥
Puṯrī ka▫ul na pĝli▫o kar pīrahu kanĥ murtī▫ai. Ḏil kẖotai ĝkī firniĥ banėh bẖĝr ucẖĝ▫iniĥ cẖẖatī▫ai.
The Guru's sons obeyed not his word and turned their back upon the proclaimed Guru.

The evil-hearted sons turned rebels and making a sack-Load of sins, carry it on their head.

Part 1

Gurmukhi Translation Comments
ਪ੝ਤ੝ਰੀ s  daughter or sons in this instance implies sons
ਕਉਲ੝ s  Lotus flower, instructions [1], Sentence[citation needed] Teachings which was spread by Guru Nanak.
Not Na means Not.
ਪਾਲਿਓ s  nurtured, maintain, to complete[2] Kept{fact?}} did not sustain; Not Kept the Promise, words (toone guru ki sikhsha ki palna nahi ki)
ਕਰਿ Done Kar ditta
ਪੀਰਹ੝ s  from Peers, Religious Leader Yogis, Naths was the category, which were inspired with Muslim thought during their regime. They were also called Peers.
ਕੰਨ੝ਹ੝ਹ Ear
ਮ੝ਰਟੀਝ s  to turn [3] Pierce[citation needed] ਕੰਨ੝ਹ੝ਹ ਮ੝ਰਟੀਝ word goes together, which means he put earrings from Peers.

Meaning 1

The sons did not nurtured the ambrosial message (lotus flower), and turn their ears from the religious leader.

Part 2

Gurmukhi Translation Comments
ਦਿਲਿ s  literally heart; within the heart; mind
ਖੋਟੈ s  untrue; non-genuine; fake; evil
ਆਕੀ s  rebel, defiant, disobedient
ਫਿਰਨ੝ਹ੝ਹਿ s  wander; roam
ਬੰਨ੝ਹ੝ਹਿ s  without?, tie, gather; dam, embankment; obstruction, stoppage [4]
ਭਾਰ੝ s  weight, load
ਉਚਾਇਨ੝ਹ੝ਹਿ s  carry; tolerate
ਛਟੀਝ s  bag, load; virtue; glory

}

Meaning

Part 2:

with false hearts the rebels wander, without any load of virtues

Comments

If Yogi was so enlightened faith then Nanak did not require Sidh Gosat, and Baba Nanak attacked various beliefs of Siddhas which are still preached by them.

<References>

The many new user accounts

It seems someone has set up a program to bomb sikhiwiki with useless user names, accounts that never are used. Perhaps it time, if possible, to add the (copy the phrase in the box) that many sites use to make sure that a human is involved?

Is that possible, does the list of 30-50 new names that daily appear cause any problems?

Hari Singhtalk 13:25, 2 January 2011 (EST), By the way, Happy New Year to you all!