User talk:Allenwalla/backup3

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Yes, glad to see you using a computer at your age

  • Anand bhaiaa myree mayy satguru may paeiaa…….

ultimate bliss has graced upon Amar O my mother Gurbani ! ….I have located Khalsa Allenwala There is further to it & it is wonderful -- I found him without any efforts what so ever.

Sady vllon mataji aty Sarbat Khalsy nu Ftyh. Kakaji Amar da likhia nhee, likhaiaa hunda hyy.

  • Myra mujh my kujh nhee jo kujh hyy so tyra….

all yours

Amar da likhaea tyra likhia hyy aty satgur dy lykhy. Amar ta Angryzee nhe jaxdee. Os da tyry vrga Putter Khalsa Mutia1 Singh Jpu aty puttar de puttree Gur Amita Singh hann. Ohna nu jiho jihi Angryje aunnde hyy likh dindy ny. Computer vgyyra Amar dy bus da nhee. Sdky Amita dy oh hee Amar nu khich lyyndee hyy aty paapa nu hukm dy ky likhwa dyndee hyy. Phyr os da papa hukm rzaee challda hyy.

Amita changee angryzee jaxdee hyy par mundy ny eyna lfza nu angryzee vich likh ky shaaid kbuutar bxa dyxa hyy. Kaka tu ta angrayzee land vala hyy os nu anryzee sikha. kbba chlly ta os dee ma nu dassxa.

Gur Khalsa Ftyh !

bhull gaiaa see: mataji nu kyyhna Amar gall krna chahunde hyy. --Amar Kaur 16:45, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for being With (Part- II)

Khalsa Allen ji

  • Chir bhaiaa darshan dykhy....

long time no see...sure khalsa will make it up

  • Anand Bhaiaa myree Maay 'Unique PenPal^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Satinaam Writer Kha Allenwala Singh Jpu' myy paeeaa.
  • Tujh jyysa Purkhu na labbee.
  • Tujh jyysa naahee ko dyv .

Sir this is Yours truly…>>A Typo Angkarr^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^. & Satinaam writer……….. Khalsa Mutia1 Singh Nirvair Jpu…..No words to thank you for being with me & cleaning up the flawless muck I am good at creating.

  • hau apradhee gnyhgar hau bymukh manda...simr mureeda dhadiaa Satigur Bakhshinda...

Need to do better to become a better Sikh! Sir Satgur willing I will one day. Khalsa is sure both senior ladies will be comfortable with each other. We are 5 members in the family. Sikhi knows four . Fifth is Mutia’s Grand pop Kha Teja Singh Jpu. As on date except for pop we all hold one account each on Sikhi .

I am sure you will pardon Khalsa for not suffixing ‘Sikhi’ with ‘Wiki’ . Satgur willing Mutia1 commits to stay in communication even evry Sikh of the universe. Details in pipe.

Sir Gur Amar’s above reply is in regional Malva Punjabi written by me in gurditti (ha! ha!)script . what ever may require my mediation, pl do let Khalsa Mutia1 know. Mutia Group of users is in the process of getting organised on Martial lines.

Khalsa is a retired Indian Army Officer and besides messing around with the keys of the board, is occupied with 'Technical Research Work' with the aim of creating employment for the rural ‘Have Not Sikhs’. Making slow but steady progress.

Gur Khalsa ftyh !


  • jyyse myy aavyy Khasam ke baxee tyysa khoo vichar o allah ! ……

O Dear^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ whatever descends down on Nanks’s Keyboard from Satgur gets reflected on Montor Screan called Sikhi..

Mutia1 plans to stay with this site through senior lady’s and Amita’s accounts & seek your views on Sikhi & Wicked issues we all are well aware of .

User:One...... Khalsa. Nanak's Upright Penpal^^^^^^^^^^^, Gurbani Writing Khalsa. Singh Nirvair, Living Gurbani Steadfast & Selfmade]]' wrote all through the grace of Satgurbani on 3rd Sep 2009 at 09:52 PM IST dedicated to KSO Panth .

Thanks for being With

Dear Upright Penpal~~ Creative Khalsa Singh Nirvair Living Gurbani Steadfast & Selfmade Allenwalla ji, 'Gur Khalsy dee Ftyh' prvaan krnee jee. !!!!

'Jo mangyy Thakur Apny ty soee soee dyvyy ......(Whatsoever is sought from Khalsa. dear, all in toto gives he granted subject to condition that blessings of Gurbani be there.)

We are a family of typos & need to do better. God is with all of us to take care. Hearty Thanks for the guidance !

Gur Khalsa Ftyh !

--Amar Kaur 11:22, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Seeking Permission

  • Write, Publish & Share True Ideas with Sarbat Khalsa & take everyone along --Khalsa Nanak Singh Jpujee Sahib

Dear Upright Penpal~~ Creative Khalsa Singh Nirvair Living Gurbani Steadfast & Selfmade Allenwalla ji, 'Gur Khalsy dee Ftyh' prvaan krnee jee. !!!!

1. KSO(Sarbat Khalsa) has no copywrite issues no where. However Sikhi on SikhiWiki encompasses Wiki as well. In fact not being a Gurbani writer, copying it & publishing it through all means, is the 'ONE' & 'ONLY ONE' offence for a True Sikh. A few years back our friend Luckyji almost got in trouble for it. That was unfortunate. Let us Sikhs, through the grace of Gurbani' stay fortunate & out of trouble. So much for this plea.

2. Sir, You( Nanak ) write wonderful & True thoughts. May this Khalsa seek your permission to copy them for subsequent publication on googlesites/sites/ for Khalsa not having access to modren means of communication ? I am refering to Sikhs living in remote punjab villages to begin with.

3. I do not know anything about copywriting etc, except that copy-paste can get one in trouble. Wicked are ways of destructive journalism.

Gur-Khalsa Ftyh !

Amar Kaur 08:58, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Amita's Grand Mother & One's Mother. Panth kee daasee Upright Angkaran Creative Khalsa Kaur Nirvairan Living Gurbani Steadfast & Selfmade Amaar80 from Delhi .




All are fine wid the Guru's Kirpa,presently busy in election meetings as i hv been deputed for election duty as Presiding Officer for the polling which is going to be held on 16th in Jammu. user:sarbjeet_1313me

Sikhs on Yatra in Pakistan

Sat Sri Akal, Richard,

Has been fixed. Thanks for reminding. Regards, Hari Singhtalk 02:50, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

My Grandfather

Brother, i think you took it in wrong way. My Grandfather tells us about their war. About his experiance, tells us what bravery is, tells us how they fought, what problems they face, in what conditions he was and he is proud that still he is alive after facing them. He was in infantry. He is retired captain. and enjoying the life and pension he is getting from Government. He fought for british but for india.

but he always says one thing, nobody like war, but if you have to face to then think that you will never see the world again. He have positive attitude towards everything.

(Lucky 17:40, 13 April 2009 (UTC))

.....higher still is truthful living

Hi Richard,

Thanks for the amendments. Yes, it definitely reads better. I will try and finish this tomorrow so I have put the "work in progress" label for tonight. Please feel free to edit. Kind regards, Hari Singhtalk 01:49, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Election over at Jammu

Richard Ji,


Thanx 4 the message,election is over (peacefully) here, sigh of relief as i was posted at Jammu city polling booth.Mercury is at rise now and it is difficult at day time to come out. Rest everything is f9. Waheguru Rakha



Thanks a lot for the kind motivation. My reply is available over here --Singh6 17:11, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

R/Sir, SSA, sorry for deleting the Punga. I see no importance of that. user:sarbjeet_1313me

Casteism, etc. Part 1

Dear Bhai Richard ji, Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh

Unfortunately, the beautiful eye photo is not my work but found on the net. However, I agree that it is a most wonderful eye; with an amazing spectrum of colours and something that a typical Indian would love to have in duplicate.

Many thanks for a most informative message and the compliment of calling me "a true Gursikh"; that I believe is a first on the net! I have had the pleasure of receiving that pleasure personally but I think this is a first time on the net. I hope I continue to maintain that threshold into the future. Many thanks again.

Richard, as you say, people who have dark skin strive for lighter skin; while the ones who have natural white skin continuously desire darker skin. I wonder if this is a recent shift in the perception of society? With the advent of global TV and air travel, the world has "opened up" and people see different peoples and cultures and constant advertising which tells them that they should have and they can have more! The average person is lead to believe that tomorrow will bring more and better things and that everyday things will get better, easier and more perfect.

It appears that the huge effort made by great saintly people like Guru Nanak has not had a proportionately significant mark on the planet; for the majority, their message does not exist; they continue to live without much spiritual knowledge or awareness; going from one emotional upheaval to the next; or from one emotional peak to the next. Most in the world are living just like simple animals live; just dealing day to day with their immediate needs and instinct; there is no thought for others; there is no effort to help the under privileged; etc. In fact some have gone in the reverse direction and kill anyone who does not "fit in" with their ideas. How do we relate that with the fact that humans have the biggest IQ?

Either, we do not use this IQ at all and it is dormant or that we use it mainly for destructive purposes; in which case, should we even call it IQ in the first place; may be "DI", "destructive intelligence" would be more appropriate. It appears that when folks are allowed complete freedom, they abuse it - consider the CEO like Sir Allen Stanford ($7b??), Bernard Madoff ($50b), CEOs of Enron ($31b) and other financial controllers like Jerome Kerviel of French bank Societe Generale($7b), Nick Leeson, who bankrupted British bank Barings ($1.38b), etc. (See the full World corruption timeline).

This apparent human "weakness" is not limited to CEO's and financial personnel, in the UK, we have had many British politicians "publicly charged" for exaggerating their expenses; many had grossly "over-claimed" money from the UK treasury. This inability of intelligent people to act wisely and with restraint is becoming a common occurrence; not only is crime on the increase, we have many so called "innocent" people engaged in small scale corruption in their daily lives. Self control and individual standards appear to have disappeared altogether.

end of part 1.... to be continued in part2. Hari Singhtalk 13:43, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Casteism, etc. Part 2

Dear Richard ji, Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh

Unfortunately, the history of human society is littered with misery, suppression and selfishness; not a year goes past without news of some new inhumane treatment of a section of society; be it India 1947, Germany 1944, Amritsar 1984 or Iran 2009. The message of all the prophets, sons of God, Gurus and the many bhagats & saints has been wasted on the human race; the sub-humans still rule the land and dictate the forums of this earth; they control and influence the majority.

The sane people of the world who probably number just a few million look on daily, in horror and in disgust at the daily killings and slaughtering of human beings that goes on everywhere. How far have we gone from the simple message of friendship and love promoted by our spiritual guides! To just think that it is these 5 little devils inside each one of us who are responsible for this massive carnage around us! If we only had more people like Bhai Kanhaiya!

Yes, as you say, the sharing of the pure holy water from one bowl is forgotten; its wider meaning has been completely lost; they quarrel about whether the bowl is made of steel or iron but do not know about its broad implications; brotherhood of man and sisterhood of woman does not enter their minds. They are too busy worrying about their hold on political power and on lining their pockets than on anything else; how can we accept these people as our spiritual or moral guides? These are the people who are supposed to guide the Panth!

Calling someone by their name is deemed to be impolite in many cultures and 'Sir' or 'Bhai sahib' or such other honorific titles are commonly used; especially if you are older than the other person. Each culture has its own little rules and this is one that still survives in a few places. I think it is good when we have these rules and people like voluntarily to follow these rules; its a show of respect which I hope has some meaning and substance.

It is amazing that of the seven deadly sins of Christianity Lust, Greed, Wrath, Pride, Envy, Sloth and Gluttony; four are exactly the same; yet the world continues on its path of excessive greed! I am sure that the compliments of the virtues of Christianity are equally ignored by our so called "noble" politicians and leaders in the West.

Many things are not under the control of man; where we are born; who our parents are; how rich or poor they are, etc are not in our control, but how we behave in our daily lives is under our control. In Japji stanza 34, Guru Nanak reminds us:

ਰਾਤੀ ਰ੝ਤੀ ਥਿਤੀ ਵਾਰ॥ ਪਵਣ ਪਾਣੀ ਅਗਨੀ ਪਾਤਾਲ ॥

ਤਿਸ੝ ਵਿਚਿ ਧਰਤੀ ਥਾਪਿ ਰਖੀ ਧਰਮ ਸਾਲ ॥ ਤਿਸ੝ ਵਿਚਿ ਜੀਅ ਜ੝ਗਤਿ ਕੇ ਰੰਗ ॥
ਤਿਨ ਕੇ ਨਾਮ ਅਨੇਕ ਅਨੰਤ ॥ ਕਰਮੀ ਕਰਮੀ ਹੋਇ ਵੀਚਾਰ੝ ॥

Rĝṯī ruṯī thiṯī vĝr. Pavaṇ pĝṇī agnī pĝṯĝl.

Ŧis vicẖ ḝẖarṯī thĝp rakẖī ḝẖaram sĝl. Ŧis vicẖ jī▫a jugaṯ ke rang.
Ŧin ke nĝm anek ananṯ.Karmī karmī ho▫e vīcẖĝr.

Nights, days, weeks and seasons; wind, water, fire and the nether regions

in the midst of these, He established the earth as a home for Dharma. Upon it, He placed the various species of beings.
Their names are uncounted and endless. By their deeds and their actions, they shall be judged. (part of pauri 34)

That the Earth is a place to practice dharm or righteousness and only your deeds and actions is what matters and will count in the end. Let us hope that we can perform the deeds and actions which will bring honour in the Lord's court!

Regarding the suggestions, we have a normal date on the main page, I will try and work out how to get the Nanakshahi date; also I will send a message to Gundeep Kaur as suggested.

Many thanks for the very informative message from both of you (as your smarter-half also contributed)! Kind regards, Hari Singhtalk 03:59, 23 June 2009 (UTC)


Hi Richard ji, Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh

It is surprising to see Panja sahib called Punjab sahib! It is obvious that the reporter is not too familiar with this important Sikh Gurdwara - one of very few where in my opinion a miracle happened. It is strange that although the Gurus do not actively promote the performance of miracles, that here at Panja sahib we have an example where the proof of the miracle has lasted for over 500 years!

I am not too sure about the train service in Punjab although I believe that this used to run from India (Delhi) to Lahore. The bus service is a more sure thing as this has been seen running between Amritsar and Lahore in many photos and video reports. I do not have any personal experience of this journey and it may be that these facilities have been suspended due to the tensions between the nations.

We don't get any direct news about India or Pakistan on our TV package; I think we need to have Sky to get this direct news; however, it is always good when people behave in a civilised and mature manner. Hopefully, one day the borders between India and Pakistan will be like France and Germany! almost no existent.

I don't really know what happened to Harcharan Singh since he was made any officer. Let's hope he continues to make progress and attract others to the army. Kind regards, Hari Singhtalk 17:42, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the message and photos. I believe that for news reports we can use a few photos as long as we mention the source on the article and the photo as per the "fair use" policy in the media field.

I did read the joke at the "A presidential ‘punga’" article - it is a little cheap bit to include in what appears to be a serious news article!

Please, could you give me the url (link addresses) to these photos so we can include that if we use the photos. Many thanks, Hari Singhtalk 02:36, 26 June 2009 (UTC)


Sorry for late reply, Allenwalla ji. Nice edits. In punjabi when we say born in house of Bhai X Singh and Mata Y Kaur, it means that they r the parents... Lol its like that in Punjabi.. So it has been translated to literally. Hope i answered ur question. Hor baki sab? everything else is fine? sadly i cant dedicate the same time to sikhiwiki anymore as i used to (in free time im writing a big volumed book, which may take years, like big history)... your painting of hari singh nalwa was used in the uk's best punjabi newspaper Des PArdes some weeks back. when i saw it i wanted to tell, but dunno forgot to tell... Sunnybondsinghjalwehra 23:17, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Kalgi of Guru Gobind Singh Ji

Richard ji, Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh

Thank you for bringing this to my attention. Unfortunately, it does not give me any pleasure as I believe that the item had a better enviroment here in the UK for its preservation.

Unfortunately, the Punjabis are not ones to look after historical things very carefully. As we can see, very few of the historical items and building have been preserved. The item would have been much better preserved here in the UK and it would have a much wider audience.

Further, many Sikhs live and visit museums and enjoy the darshan of historical item relating to Sikhi here as well. In my opinion, we should have a good spread of our Sikh history for all the world to enjoy. Punjabis do not have a monopoly on Sikh history. Sikhs are now part of many global communities. A step backward I think! What are your thoughts? Hari Singhtalk 18:52, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Repost - sorry previously posted in hurry

That post was not for you, that was for hari singh ji i want him to take care of articles which i would create soon, on charitropakhyan written by guru gobind singh. there are many foes of bani of Guru Gobind Singh due to their wrong interpretations. So i am interpreting the controverial bani, with help of positive interpretations of some sikh scholars. Whenever we search on google about dasam granth we just get controversial or negative prespective of it.

Sir you know with your touch my articles are worth reading, and i want the articles which i will create on Dasam Bani on charitropakhyan, the meaning of article should not be changed, and i know you will help in improving standard of article. so dont take tension bro. if any prob contact me i wrote first article Tale of King of Sirmaur.....thanks (Lucky 17:47, 3 July 2009 (UTC))


Bhai sahib ji,

Please refer to: which may provide answers. If not please leave a memo as before. Many thanks as always. Regards, Hari Singhtalk 22:18, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Probably due to the different time zone, we would normally be "out-of-sync" in our "shift" at the computer. Also, I do not generally look at the comment field in great detail. Good to know this url may have the original article. I find that these original articles are in "old English" and need to be "softened" a little to fit into the language of today. Hope it does the trick! Regards, Hari Singhtalk 23:09, 7 July 2009 (UTC)


Bhai sahib ji,

Seems a bit far fetched but we will give the contributor a chance to prove us wrong! Thanks to you and Lucky for monitoring the edits. Kind regards, Hari Singhtalk 00:05, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Roudh and Dr. Arvind-Pal Singh Mandair

Bhai sahib ji, Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh

I think this "Roudh history" may not have any sound grounding or written records. We may need to re-word the article to reflect this as most of the claims appear to be "oral" versions, etc. No link found to the video referred to in this comment?

I will try and find some data on the Dr. Never come across him before. Many thanks again, Hari Singhtalk 15:26, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Got into the middle again

Bhai sahib ji, Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh

Lucky ji, I only noticed you were not finished after some changes, how are things in Punjab, have the rains finally cooled things down. While checking a note to Hari ji, I noticed that you had been talking with Jarnail Singh, what a rotten thing for his paper (and goverment) to do. I wish him the best, surely good things will come to him and his family. Hopefully, if he wants, he can get his journalist card restored. I am sure that he would have no trouble landing another job.

Raab Rakha, Allenwalla 06:04, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Got into the middle again

Bhai sahib ji, Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh

Sorry Lucky ji, I only noticed you were not finished (Gurdwara Guru Gobind Singh Ji (Sirsa), after some changes. How are things in Punjab, your studies, your family; have the rains finally cooled things down. While checking a note to Hari ji, I noticed that you had been talking with Jarnail Singh, what a rotten thing for his paper (and goverment) to do. I wish him the best, surely good things will come to him and his family. Hopefully, if he wants, he can get his journalist card restored. I am sure that he would have no trouble landing another job.

Raab Rakha, Allenwalla 06:07, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

sat shri akaal sir ji

how are you sir jee hope everything's fine.

i m now finished with that article, everything's fine in punjab including studies, family. no proper raining is there it just like drizzling for an hour or two to make atmosphere cool but still it's hot in sunny days and humid too. he cannot get his card restored due to that act which he did bring shame to journalism society, but he is sikh also. he is planning for books on survivers of 84 riots.

Sir i am writing and article on Guru Nanak & Shamsis, i have followed various books and internet too, after that i am creating this article. I am writing whole the article as an idea help me in peoper translation and grammer. thanks (Lucky 18:02, 15 July 2009 (UTC))

reply 4m jarnail singh

bhai saab this is very tough question. anyway, my shoe wa not off before the incident. yes it was a bit loose my ankle had been giving problem for a while. there was an extra cushion in my shoe too. hope your friend has got his answer.

(Lucky 14:17, 17 July 2009 (UTC))

sat shri akaal again

sir my main idea was to tell what article says, i am not good at all in english. so you can change accordingly with synonyms r more correct word. i have no problem sir ji. now you have to help me in interpretation of these charitars. thanks (Lucky 18:54, 19 July 2009 (UTC))


Hi Bhai sahib ji, Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh

I am not very familiar with Bhatt Bani (apart from 1 or 2 shabads) but I will look at this in more detail during this week. What is more difficult to deal with the the concept of God and "son of God". Gurbani addresses all souls as a "light" of God so we are all little sparks of God; or saints have even been called "sons of the Lord"; and Bani constantly refers to the "soul" as the "wife of the Husband Lord".

With this in mind then to call a "saint" a "son of God" is acceptable as far a Gurbani goes. However, the son cannot be called the father as Guru Gobind Singh made very clear. There is a big jump from being the spark to the becoming fire itself; but the interaction between the soul and super-soul is not a easy concept to comprehend completely.

So this then brings us to the concept of "Guru Nanak, son of Lord Vishnu". I am not an expert on Hindu concepts of "Gods" but if this statement is saying in effect that "Guru Nanak is the son of the Lord" then I don't find that disturbing but if Lord Vishnu refers to something else and not "God" then please correct me. Gurbani refer to God as Guru or Satguru and we find the line "The Guru is Shiva, the Guru is Vishnu and Brahma; the Guru is Paarvati and Lakhshmi" (Japji ji SGGS page 2) so I take it that the Lord is all those things and also God created all these entities - Lord Vishnu, Brahma, Shiva, etc. Bani also says "From this Primal Void, Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva issued forth" (sggs p1037).

I wonder if make the issue any clearer or not? Regards, Hari Singhtalk 12:49, 20 July 2009 (UTC)


I was sleeping during solar eclipse and before few minutes i got the news that today was solar eclipse. Actually holidays and lazyness makes a person ignorant and same happened. ya it was longest eclipse in 20th century. (Lucky 09:23, 22 July 2009 (UTC))

    • Sikh do not believe in avtarvaad, how can they treat guru nanak, an avtar or prophet or last massenger etc. we believe in philosphy given by them and not only he but namdev, kabir, fareed etc. Guru ji added only those bani in guru granth shaib which is ok acc to sikhi. (Lucky 08:34, 23 July 2009 (UTC))

Thank you.

Thank you veerji for helping to populate the Prof. Darshan Singh Khalsa page. A great help as I didn't know how to do it.

Thank you.


Sorry for late reply ji. I was and still am in france (attended two Sikhi Gurmat camps). I dont remember date or article of the painting sorry, but i am 150% it was your painting. Sunnybondsinghjalwehra 11:50, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Harjinder Singh Jinda - Thanks

Thanks a lot for fixing my errors in Harjinder Singh Jinda. Kind Regards....--Singh6 16:15, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Hi Richard, I have replied to your questions over here and here.
  • Jinda or Jindha is a nick name. It does not have any meening. Usually if your name is Harjinder, people start calling you Jind or Jinda. His nick name became very famous, people out there generally recall him with his nick name "Jinda" only.
  • Yes! He was studying in 2nd year of BA degree in Khalsa College Amritsar and he quit it to join this movement.
  • Fighting to get a new country is a big thing, You can not get a country only with fight, Its a game of chess, you need to gain public support, or you need to turn the remaining segments of public against the establishments. Money/finance always keep an important stage in destroying/establishing the countries. I have read some history books on how Sikhs weakened the Mughal Empire in northern India prior to establishing their own Sikh Empire. When they were only fighting against the Moghuls, they were not getting much success. Then they started looting/destroying the Moghul treasury which helped them to by weapons and forced the establishment to offer governership (Nawabi) to Sikhs (which was finally handed over to Kapoor Singh, thats how he became 'Nawab' Kapoor Singh). This was the begining of initial Sikh rule.
  • Regarding the bank robbery, Punjab National Bank is an Indian government owned bank. If this bank lost money then it was basically Indian government's loss. It was owner's (i.e.india's) responsibility to run the bank properly and safeguard the money. Owner is bound to return the money to the account holders unless it go bankrupt. So it appears that by doing so, sikhs tried to conflict financial loss to the regime and use regime's money against the same. --Singh6 21:36, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
  • If they looted multiple govt banks then it means they conflicted multiple financial losses to the regime. If they burnt government properties that means more financial losses of government.
  • In this kind of situations, regimes end up paying late salaries and imposing extra taxes on the public... which make public go against the regimes.
  • Even Gandhi did something similar but through peacefull means, World powers did the same against other countries through UN resolutions. We might not like it, but thats how several regimes were destroyed or built in the history.--Singh6 21:36, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Sir ji

I met captain fateh singh personally and would bring proper article, actually my article is in lappy and lappy is with my faternal uncle. (Lucky 16:57, 2 August 2009 (UTC))

    • Can you read gurmukhi script? (Lucky 08:52, 7 August 2009 (UTC))

Zakariya Khan

Dear Bhai sahib ji, Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh

Many thanks for the valuable information on the above and the link to the Google search on Zakariya Khan - its good to see SikhiWiki near the top of these searches. I have emailed the people at Britannica Online Encyclopedia and sent you a copy. Clearly this information is incorrect. Let's hope we get this amended. Kind regards, Hari Singhtalk 18:39, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Sant Baba Karam Singh Ji

Bhai sahib ji, Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh

Thanks for your kind message. I agree entirely; if the meaning in English is not there then it becomes a little pointless considering that this is primarily a Sikhi site meant for English speaking people.

A very good site for checking word meaning of Gurbani is Srigranth; unfortunately it does not always yield meaning in English but it does always explain in simple Punjabi; so it may help others who put Gurbani on the site.

For the point that you raise regarding the word "maange" one needs to find the shabad at this site. The easiest way is either by the page number or the English translation.

In this case it gives this page: Page 266

If you then click on the Gurmukhi word "ਮਾਗੈ" - if you cannot make out the Gurmukhi which I presume you can't - the Gurmukhi is transliterated into Roman a couple of lines below so follow this word for word to see the vocalisation of the Gurmukhi words. so the line "ਚਾਰਿ ਪਦਾਰਥ ਜੇ ਕੋ ਮਾਗੈ ॥" in Gurmukhi is vocalised as "Cẖĝr paḝĝrath je ko mĝgai." word for word.

So in this case the word "mĝgai" relates to the 5th word in line 1 in Gurmukhi" - this takes you to the dictionary and hopefully it gives its English meaning - unfortunately in case it only gives more Punjabi but that which anyone with Punjabi background can understand - translating this Punjabi gives meanings "to ask"; "are asking for"; "praying for"; "will ask for";" are asking for"; " as a result of asking".

I hope this helps. Please feel free to ask further if this does not "paint a complete picture". Many thanks and regards, Hari Singhtalk 13:08, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

As you say, Bhai sahib ji, there is great overlap and interlinking in our languages as can be seen with just one word; it can travel the whole way around the world. The word "MaAn-Gay" is "to ask" but a similar sounding word "maN-gal" means "Joy, delight, bliss" - so apart from the "great melting pot" of the world languages, there is also great diversity and richness in our languages. Many thanks for your keen observations. Kind regards, Hari Singhtalk 11:57, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

replied there

replied (Lucky 13:46, 25 August 2009 (UTC))

Mars, Mangla, Mangala, Manlik, a baby boy with a full set of teeth.

Hi Richard,

The word "Suthra" or ਸ੝ਥਰਾ is translated at SriGranth as "Neat, chaste, clean, tidy, pure, trim, terse, orderly." I understand it as "tidy, clean and pure".

And as you say, Suthra Shah's sakhi and name revolves around this word. I think it is pure superstition that he was discarded because of a black mark on his face and the full set of teeth. Due to these unusual features, he was considered "kuthra" which means "dirty or polluted," destined to bring bad luck and so was abandoned. There is no logic here or ritual practise just discrimination against someone who is born different!

Congratulation on a long successful marriage and may it continue to flourish. The wearing of the Maangal suther, I believe is a Hindu custom but many find it significant as it is a sign of dedication and a sign of connection; replaced in the west by exchange of rings. As long as the custom has meaning for the wearer then it is useful and has significance; when customs have no real meaning, then they should not be practised. Thanks for sharing. Regards, Hari Singhtalk 21:44, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Cousin and counsin brother

Bhai sahib ji,

Could the term be to distinguish a cousin brother from a cousin sister? I am not an expert on relations which are defined in great depth in Punjabi but please consider and advise?

In Punjabi their is no word for cousin so a cousin brother is referred to as a brother. Regards, Hari Singhtalk 09:01, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Richard ji Satsriakal, how are you? kindly click the following link to see my snaps

thanx --user:sarbjeet_1313me 05:32, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

A story on kenya

Bhai Sahib ji, Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh

Many thanks for the great link to a very sad story. Amazing that in this day and age we still have people dying from hunger! It is even sadder that as a world community we have not tread on the path of Guru Nanak and provided langar for these poor folks. May be this will be a problem for the next generation to overcome!

Yes, I did get a chance several times to see the animals in the grasslands but under these harsh conditions their numbers will dwindle. I am most grateful for your message and the great link. Regards, Hari Singhtalk 22:08, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Gurdwara Mehdiana Sahib

Unfortunately, I have no personal knowledge and the matter about the villages appears a little confused. Hopefully as you say someone local will soon join and be able to enlighten us! Lots of new user accounts but few contributors as yet. Let's hope this changes as we need more help. Regards, Hari Singhtalk 00:54, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

English language

Bhai sahib ji, Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh

Thanks for the observation. I agree, the talk page has nothing relating to English or English language; I have removed the content of the talk page. May be there is a subtle point there somewhere but I could not make it out. Everyone in the family is well and I hope the same applies to you and your family as well. Kind regards, Hari Singhtalk 02:15, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Gurudwara Thumb Sahib of Maghi, Kartarpur

I believe this is in Kartarpur in Pakistan near the India/Pakistan border where Guru Nanak left this world; not in Hasan Abdal, which is where the Guru had the disagreement with Wali Kandari. I just added this section; I wonder if this helps Guru_Nanak#The_Guru_leaves_for_his_heavenly_abode although it does not refer to Gurdwara Thumb sahib - "Thumb" normally means "pillar"/"truck" or "Tharra" means "platform" or "Thumba" meaning "post".

Tharra may refer to the grave platform. I am not sure at present as "thumb" is not a platform but a truck or pillar. Important trees are sometimes referred to as "Thumb Sahib" or "holy trunk". Hope this helps. Regards, Hari Singhtalk 17:37, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Bibi Kamaljit Kaur

Bhai Sahib ji, Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh,

The second copy of the article called just Kamaljit Kaur is gone replaced with a redirect to the main page. I have edited and changed the photo to a more traditional format. I did read your comments on the talk page and at the user discussion page and I agree with what you said; perhaps the contributor will come back at some stage with some feedback. Thanks again for your valuable work. Regards, Hari Singhtalk 17:10, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the compliment about the photo; sorry if you also did the same thing. It took about 15-20 minutes in total. I am moving to open source programs and normally use for photo editing but am training myself on gimp which I believe is has a few more advance features. But both are both excellent programs and they are free to use!

I did not make the change to the text - that was probably done by the original contributor. I have not heard about this Ragi before so cannot add anything meaningful.

The words "bada*s harmonica player" make little sense - may be the word "bada*s" should be "badia" or "vadia" which in Punjabi means 'good' or 'able'. I don't think the SGPC would use a rude or an awkward word here!

Also, I think that it should be a "Harmonium" not "harmonica" as you had guessed. I hope that with your new harmonica you do achieve the better breathing that you seek! Aren't there various different versions of this instrument - some which can be used without using the breath?

The name "Jasbir" is very common - it may be that this connection is not to the correct "Jasbir Singh". More information is needed before we can link the two due to the fact that it is such a popular name - In Punjabi cultural, Jasbir is as common as Peter in the west! The other thing to watch is that it is common in Punjabi culture to refer to "father-in-law" as "father"; so this also needs to be checked?

The word "Har" in words: It is pleasing to think that there is reference to God in these instrument names; but somehow I don't think it was a deliberate attempt but may be it was coincidence that the link developed. I hope I am wrong but, in my opinion, man has remembered God less and has been driven more by his own ego. I hope I am wrong but history of war is clear evidence evidence of man's ego and his reluctance to believe or remember in God! Regards, Hari Singhtalk 07:44, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Ajit Singh Poohla

Thanks, Richard for asking about me. No solid timings yet for going to India; plans appear to be slipping to next year now. Will let you know if the plans become more real; there is lot of uncertainty at present.

I am no expert in the field of Nihungs, but I believe that "Kahnay Nihung" may be a person - so the sentence should read 'Jaswinder went to Kahnay Nihung. Thanks for highlighting the queries - it certainly makes them easier to find but increases the work for you!

The “ symbols should be removed as I think they do not represent an real characters as such. The link for Eunuchs is very appropriate and highly informative.

Hope all in well in the Richard household. Regards and many thanks, Hari Singhtalk 02:57, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Sad end & Kenya

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh, Bhai Sahib ji,

Dead person found after 5 years - The article highlights the lack of community cohesion which has become the by-product of "modern society". In older societies, it was essential that the well-being of everyone within the society was known at all times. Unfortunately, in today's life everyone is too busy to have the time to keep "in touch" with others in the community. Indeed, it is sad when a person in society has no one who worries about their well-being.

Thanks for the link to the BBC article. Following your previous link, I had kept an eye on this sad development in Kenya. It is a shame that such a poor country has so many corrupt leaders who have little concern about their wider communities. Greed is a driving force that brings ruin to the nation.

Many thanks and kind regards, Hari Singhtalk 20:19, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Sad End: Thanks, Bhai sahib ji for making the change. It bridges the gap, explaining why that article is on this website. Shhukreea ji, Hari Singhtalk 23:22, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Mau, etc

Bhai Sahib ji: Sorry, I missed the word 'scaled' completely; The Guru Granth Sahib as you know is kept on a manji sahib in a darbar hall during the day and at night is 'retired' (sukh-assan) to a bed in a bedroom called the 'sach-khand'. There is a 'closing' ritual at the end of the day and the Bani Kirtan Sohila is read before the Guru is retired to the sach-khand.

I don't understand where the 'scaled' fits in. Anyway, the word 'Bhora' refers to a 'basement' or 'cellar' used for meditation. please see this link. Some historic Gurdwaras have these and is where the Gurus used to mediate or engage in recitation of Bani. Hope this helps. Regards, Hari Singhtalk 04:20, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Sakhi 508

Bhai Sahib ji,

This reads much better now. Many thanks for an excellent revision of the intro to the article. Unfortunately, we are unable to amend the ",,,more" part as it is an external site. Perhaps, in future we will have our own version of this article at Sikhiwiki when we have exhausted all the other improvement that we are doing and we have nothing else to do; at present there is more prior function to perform with some of the other features that we are working on here.

It is amazing how the rulers of yesteryears, including some of the "great" Western powers failed to appreciate the rights of others and engaged in total bloodshed and warfare in the interest of personal and national gain; this despite the fact that many prophets and avtars have visited their civilisations or are known to them. They appear to have failed to gain anything from these wise visitors.

It appears that with the advent of the two World Wars, the intense tragedy may have knocked some sense into present-day society; the creation of the UNO may, in future be judged to the best step the mankind has taken in its entire history. The respect of the rights of others, especially those of the weak in society is a uniquely "godly" quality which has been promoted vigorously by our Gurus.

Thank you and kind regards, Hari Singhtalk 23:02, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Something to see

Bhai Sahib ji, Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh

Thanks, for letting me know.

I will try and get to this one; it looks pretty interesting. I will report back and let you know how I get on. I don't think I will be able to take photos; but we will see! Kind regards, Hari Singhtalk 23:25, 8 October 2009 (UTC)


Many thanks for the link; indeed some lovely pictures; people enjoying the friendship and good times with their neighbours. May such goodness which we possess within human life spread throughout the world. Bitterness should have no place in an understanding world.

But Bhai sahib we continue to see the negative dominate. Sometimes I wonder if as a race we will ever become so upright so as to renounce violence altogether - at present this seems an impossible target. With the daily bombing in Pakistan, I cannot see how any progress is possible in this direction.

However, that is a huge subject which has no end!! Many thanks for your kind words and good wishes. I hope you and your family are all keeping well. Regards, Hari Singhtalk 01:39, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Gu v Ru

Bhai sahib ji,

Wonderful picture; as you say "..speaks a 1000 words" indeed. Its a picture that if God had an art exhibition would be on the wall; it would probably have a caption like - "This is how I wanted them to live". Alas, we have forgotten that and ended up in a killing race; "Lets see who can finish off the other party first"!!!

Although the article has an unwelcomed political undercurrent, it has some good information about the "news" from the region.

The word "Mallar" is defined as "boatman" or a vehicle that floats you to safety. see here ਮਲਾਰ for the "dictionary" definition of the word and ਮਲਾਰ for a list of lines in the Guru Granth which have this word - unfortunately most of the listing is for the title of the bani using this raag but on page 1 and near the end of page 3 are a few occurrences of the word in SGGS.

Bhai sahib, kind regards. "Jugo-jug jivo", Hari Singhtalk 01:52, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Jugo juug, jivo

Do not know of any books as such but there is a paper version of the SGGS dictionary which may be helpful. I will try and find my copy and scan a few pages to help you access if it could be beneficial. Also, have a look at Gurmukhi to English, which in response to a specific request.

Jugo-jug jivo"? jug (not pronounced as in English; very short 'u' or 'oo' sound) is from yug ie "era" or "age". Hindu culture believe in 4 yugs, each lasting many centuries. jivo or jeevo= to live. Jugo jug jivo=live for many centuries. Regards, Hari Singhtalk 06:11, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Manmohan Singh as India’s first Sikh prime minister

Bhai Sahib ji, Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh

Many thanks for the link - I am most grateful for these links as it draws my attention to news features which I would otherwise have missed out on.

I am reluctant to feature news by a Pakistani news column on India who are deemed to be "their enemy". I don't believe that it is unbiased or does any justice to Sikhi. I think the facts that so many Sikhs are in key positions in the Indian government is an absolute miracle and something to be proud of a s a Sikh. With only about 2% of the population, doing a simple calculation based on probability, it should have taken about 200 years to get a Sikh PM for 1 term only; now we have had a Sikh PM for nearly 2 terms.

I know from going to India that the PM and other Sikh leaders have produced a positive change in the country and the world - In my opinion that is all that counts. There has been improvement for all the peoples of India; may be the Sikhs have not got preferential treatment but that is not fair as it would be at the expense of others; so this is not such a bad thing. I accept that there has been no justice to the thousands of victims of 1984. This is indeed a tragedy.

However, I do not believe that this is entirely due to the congress party; there has been a general cover-up since 1984; many other parties had the chance to clear up this sad saga but failed to do so. What is tragic is the fact that the Sikhs themselves were caught asleep. And this veerji is the lesson to learn. The Punjabi Sikhs have not learnt the lesson from the Gurus; they fight among themselves; they are caught in material wealth. No one has the impartiality or boldness of leaders like Maharaja Ranjit Singh; how can you protect the common people when the local leaders are caught fighting each other and in looting of material wealth!

While these local leaders are engaged in this infighting, injustices will continue; only when they tread on the message and path of the Gurus will they be able to lead their province, the whole of the country and help the world. The Punjab was responsible for the green revolution; why stop there; how about a worldwide green revolution to make the world hunger-free?

These Punjabi leaders have no vision. How can we blame others when the leaders in the state of Punjab cannot lead? However, on the national level, the Sikh leaders have done exceptionally well. So, I do not think the news article does any justice to the real situation that exists. I don't believe that these national leaders need any praise to motivate them; to excel and produce a good result for the country seems to be in their blood. May the Lord continue to help them so they can get that country out of poverty.

Unfortunately, it is Pakistan that needs such positive leadership; dictator or not. Without proper leadership and direction, the country will continue to go downhill. By contract the leadership in Pakistan is known to be corrupt and feeble; how can they lead the country to peace and prosperity? Terrorism is out of control; the world banks have to support the nation! There is no justice for the common people. To me the situation here seems hopeless. So it does not surprise me that they have to write such articles to attack the situation in India!

Veer ji, the global public image of Sikhs, for what it matters, has shot up greatly due to the PM and others; not that it really matters in the bigger scheme of things. Politic is not a game of righteousness and so it is amazing that some of these Indian Sikh leaders have not been seen to be "involved" in corruption, etc. Fortunately, they continue to lead a poor nation to a situation where it is recognised on the world stage; both economically and politically.

A very thought provoking article but a little depressing; the situation is a lot more positive than the article makes out. I have not finished reading it all yet! Many thanks. regards, Hari Singhtalk 19:17, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Such bitter food for thought!!

Bhai sahib ji, Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh;

May the Almighty bless you for the constant stream of righteous deeds that I am sure you perform throughout your day; many thanks again for the depth of the areas of issues that you have covered. Indeed it is very bitter food for thought!!

Tragedy appears to have engulfed many regions of the world; lack of education due to poverty is probably the main reason for this present situation in these regions of the world. As the Muslims do not believe in education especially in the same way as the rest of the world; they continue to suffer the most.

Many thousands of families suffer deaths and injury every month and nothing is said in opposition to this barbaric behaviour; daily we see bombs exploding in crowded cities round the world; mostly Muslims blowing up Muslims; this is no act by a Muslim belonging to the faith of the holy Prophet! these are ignorant mislead madmen.

It is impossible to understand how these fools will face their day of judgement! What misguided ideas they have in their stupid minds; only God knows. The idea of living a life by following the principles of righteousness appears not to enter the minds of these folks. They seem to believe that there is a short-cut to enter heaven!! Hoe foolish can one be. Where Guru Nanak spent 10 lives to explain that one can only move towards the Lord by performing the correct deeds , it appears the the Tailban within a short timescale have found a fast-track route to Heaven - Suicide bombing of other innocent Muslims who don't fit your vision of the faith.

Mind you, Veer ji, it appears that Israel and Palestine is another region where there is no compassion for their neighbours! The feeling of bitterness is deep in their bones. In Japji, Nanak informs us that without Daya there is no faith; if one does not feel any compassion for other beings then they cannot enter the realm of Sachkhand!! To become a better person means to understand the position of others; there are so many sakhis that show us the right path from the wrong; and this have been done over and over again in the different faiths - still Man, the pinnacle of evolution continues to prove its winning form in barbarism.

May be the expanding population has triggered an innate killer-gene in the world and that bombing each other is natures way to control the rapid growth in population? It is unbelievable that the poor Indian mother is already on to baby number 8 while the Western lad can only dream on having 9 children with the pay rate of $9 per hour. It is a crazy world!!

Which brings me to Amar Kaur: It may be that as an adm, I may have more option at the top tab bar - One of the options is to move a page. So when I see these non-wiki pages I tap on this tab and add User:Mutia/ in front of the page name and click save. That does the trick. Please let me know if you are unable to do this.

Many thanks and kind regards, Hari Singhtalk 06:21, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Clocks go back!

veer ji, Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh

Our clocks went back last weekend; so now its getting dark here by 5pm. I am surprised that they actually go back in the USA as well considering the you are at a much lower latitude than the UK where the length of day varies by a big margin (as much as 6+ hours) depending on the season.

It is very kind of you to say such words of encouragement; not trained as a writer, I have always found writing a little bit of a "task"; and it has been great to have your keen eye review and improve many of the articles that I have written. Although, I don't see myself as an able writer, unfortunately there are very few writers who write about matters from a Sikhi angle; so I fit a gap in a huge vacuum for articles about Sikhi which are relevant to present day events.

Thanks for the kind words and your valuable effort over the years; did you know that your first contribution here was on Sept 11, 2007 (also the anniversary of that dreadful day!) - unless you contributed under a different name before?

I have never thought of submitting my articles to Sikhnet but now that you mention it, to get a better coverage of some of the Sikhi issues, it may be another valuable platform. I will email Gurumustuk Singh soon and see what he thinks. Thanks for the suggestion.

I must say that some of the articles and links that you have given were pointing to some very painful and ugly events; it is a real shame that as the Rolls Royce of God's creation we are doing a terrible job. Rather than becoming an example of Godly values, we have taken the reverse direction.

Not only do we continue to destroy the Air, Oceans and the Earth, but we cannot live in peace and love among ourselves! Our survival on Earth is a bigger burden than any other species ever; what have we done to improve this planet? - Nothing! And what plans does man have for its home? One can only conclude that the nuclear button will be pressed one day and the real misery for the planet will start.

The whole world has moved forward from the 1500's except the Taliban and their allies; they have the same philosophy that was practised by Jahangir; the English, the West and the "Civilised world" used to burn their criminals particularly their "witches" at the stake; many other countries employed completely inhumane methods of punishment which they now do not practise. Unfortunately the Taliban and their friends appear not to moved forward in the last 500 years.

Guru Nanak preached a lesson of compassion and love; regrettably, its mainly fallen on deaf ears. It is pains me to think that nearly 240 years of educating the whole of the world has predominately gone to waste. When I see the images in some of your links, I wonder how a human being can do these horrendous things to innocent people. What is going on in their brains? Do they not see the misery they are causing; does their mind not know mercy and compassion.

Even simple animals display acts of basic compassion; some tiny creatures like the humble ant display great acts of cooperation and parupkar (doing good to others); it begs the question - what has gone wrong with these human beings? Well, only God really knows and He surely knows where this is leading us!

Keep well - Regards and many thanks, Hari Singhtalk 00:09, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Happy Gurpurab

Happy Gurpurab to you and your family. (Lucky 09:18, 2 November 2009 (UTC))

I am the one who should be saying sorry!

Bhai Sahib ji, Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh

Sorry, I did not realise that you have made amendments to the article, Lions of the Great Wars and having added hyperlinks on the AOW template, I copied the text back to the main article. I am sorry to have overwritten the first 3 paragraphs - I have reverted my changes back to your text. I will come back to you after reading the rest of your message. Regards, Hari Singhtalk 15:52, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Bhai Sahib ji,

Thank you very much for the detailed message. I hope together we made the article Lions of the Great Wars a good tribute this year for the efforts of the Sikhs in the Great Wars - sadly only about 180 people appear to have looked at the article but hopefully it will be read by many more in due course.

Unfortunately, the present conflicts in the world are a cancer of the present times and beyond my comprehension. For the first time in the world, we have a fanatic off-shoot of human society who are prepared to kill Kamikaze style in peace time. Previously, the Japanese used this tactic in war-time but now, for the first time in the planet's history it is happening during period of "peace".

It is difficult to see how we can defeat a group of people hell bent on such a sadist mission; my Muslim friends have disowned these people and said clearly these groups are not Muslims; mosques have refused to carry out funerals on these terrorist but the daily bombing still continue! And as you clearly point out there are many leaders in the Muslim world who continue to keep this ideology warm to stay in power.

Although these leaders do not promote terrorism, the difference between the two ideologies has become fuzzy; uneducated people can see little room between what is promoted by the fanatic leaders and the Taliban. I believe that the lack of education is responsible for the escalation in activities of these groups. If the masses had been educated, they would not believe the stupidity of suicide as a ticket to Heaven!

God knows how this new evil trait of human society is going to be controlled? The Japanese were subdued by the atom/hydrogen bombs; will the same tactics work here! I doubt it. Perhaps the two "Muslim" factions will wipe each other out! That will solve the population problem and wipe out the illiterates in our society.

What an unbelievable mess for the most intelligent being produced by God! Regard, Hari Singhtalk 05:55, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Baba Deep Singh

Bhai Sahib ji, Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh

I have seen this "cleaned up" version recently on a number of sites - check here on Google images. It appears to be the same picture as before but enhanced digitally - It is difficult to establish who has done the enhancement as no one has left any trace of there name on the picture; even the original painter appears not to have signed the picture!

I agree, it would be nice to acknowledge the painter and the person who enhanced it - but that may now be impossible. This anonymous way of doing things was the norm in the Sikh culture about a century ago as a way of "doing sewa for the panth"; since then things have changed as we all appear to "need recognition" and also for legal reasons we are sometimes compelled to have to declare the source or author/artist responsible of the work. Regards, Hari Singhtalk 09:39, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Baba Gurditta chart

Bhai Sahib ji, Divine blessings

Yes, I think you are correct although this Baba Gurditta chart is based on an old family tree from which I made this Guru family tree which also has the same error.

I have this tree set up on a spreadsheet so I could change it on there but it might take a bit of time to locate it and then make the change.

So, if it not going to take you more than say 20-30 minutes, then please just do the Baba Gurditta chart only and I will do the Guru family tree later. If the chart is going to take you longer than say 30 minutes then let me do both of them. I believe this will be the most efficient and just way - What do you think? I am just trying to find an easy way for both of us. Please Bhai sahib, I will let you decide. Kind regards and Guru dee fateh, Hari Singhtalk 05:18, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Bhai Sahib ji, That chart looks great - I like the fact that the names of the Gurus are in a straight line. I think this makes it easier to follow the succession of Guruship. Well done and many thanks again; also for the amendments to the Featured Article - Kartar Singh Sarabha. Regards, Hari Singhtalk 04:58, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

a rabbi, a minister and a Muslim sheik walk into a restaurant?

Thanks, Bhai Sahib - It's no joke!! - this is serious business. I am just half way and enjoying it! Cheers, Hari Singhtalk 09:32, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Bunniebbutlerg & Wandisqphelpsw?

Thanks, that was vandalism of the "softer" kind (if such a term can be used) - inserting adverts into websites belonging to others. I believe their interference to our site has been deleted together with their user accounts. Kind regards, Hari Singhtalk 10:36, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Combined edits

Bhai Sahib, Sorry about the clash in the editing; I hope I did not stop you from finishing off what you were doing.

I had not read the article in full again yesterday but looking at the changes, you have done a splendid job at correcting the text. The bit about the pyramids seemed a little out of place; the 3 domes and the comparison to the kanji character may be coincidental but apt and relevant to the importance of this sacred place.

The connection to Guru Nanak and the beginning of the Mughal rule in India is fascinating and not only of relevance to Sikhs but to the history of this region and India as a whole. This place marks a well defined point in history with the start of the long period of suppression and oppression by the Muslim fanatics. The mention in the sacred Granth to this period also brings a new dimension to its importance in history.

I think you are right about the "rot" possibly meaning the slow deterioration of the structure by the removal of the bricks, etc by visitors and people from around the area; just "like the coliseum in Rome was being used as a quarry where people could steal pieces for their homes". That explains how the construction of the surrounding wall was successful in stopping this "rot".

I am not sure where the "rorri" (pebbles) were located but it must be very near to the main Gurdwara structure. I have no personal knowledge about this so please word this as you think fit; we can always improve on this when we get someone who has personal experience.

The "gate", the huge structure at the entrance of the complex is very impressive; I would guess that this is about 80-90 feet or 27-30 metre high comparing it with the people standing at the bottom, close to the structure. The Buland Darwaza is over 172 feet high; so this is not as tall as that. It appears to be built in the same type of bricks as the colour is fascinating - being a variant of red. Kind regards, Hari Singhtalk 21:25, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

The inscription right at the top of the building, below the central dome say "Gurdwara Rori Sahib" in Punjabi. The Punjabi just above the doorway is unreadable but can be discerned as Punjabi lettering but is not large enough to be read. I will see if a bigger picture of this gateway exists. Thanks, Hari Singhtalk 23:03, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Many thanks for that information. It is amazing how the 3-figure especially in the vertical plane plays such a dominate part in human cultures. I will delete the image. Kind regards, Hari Singhtalk 22:27, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

sir ji u rt right

Sir, u r right it was a 8 days trip to south and the snaps have been clicked by me.

Moreover i hv uploaded many snaps in my orkut profile,u can see it by clicking the link in my sikhiwiki profile.

--user:sarbjeet_1313me 03:41, 8 December 2009 (UTC)


Bhai sahib ji,

I wonder if this message was not meant for me and technology is playing up? Or was it? I am not sure. Please confirm. Kind regards, Hari Singhtalk 13:03, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

Thanks fo the links to the News in Punjab

Veer ji,

Thanks for the links; yes, the video is in Hindi which is similar to Punjab and fairly easy to understand; very useful but also very brief. The situation appears to be very similar to some of the problems that we have in the west when someone need to decide between freedom of speech and upsetting the feelings of a section of decent people.

I don't think I understand the full implications or relevance of the police involvement in what appears to be a non-threatening protest; the report appears a little one sided and the doesn't tell us why guns had to be used. Thanks for the links; at least I can get a general overview of the situation. Kind regards, Hari Singhtalk 13:26, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

I listened to the commentary again and the newscaster is repeating the fact that at a "satsang" protests took place which had to be dealt with by the police with tear gas and opening fire in the air; injuries resulted; not sure about any deaths. It appears to be a very pro-government report. The crowds are hardly shown; the camera seems to concentrate on the police only.

I hope this gives a flavour of the report; very inadequate piece. No mention of the background; why were the Sikhs angered; no interviews to establish the facts; just pictures and the newscasters hurried words! Cheers, Hari Singhtalk 03:30, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

kara Parshad

Veer ji,

Many thanks for the message. The first picture is gone. Please do not feel inhibited in discussing matters that are important to you as this can only help understand the underlying issues in Punjab and in Sikhi. The Dasam Granth is a respected Granth which was created by the Sikhs after Guru Gobind Singh and the issue will always remain as to the motivation of the compilers of this granth.

When we look at the SGGS, or even Bhai Gurdas' varan or other writings, etc then there can be little doubt about their pedigree; there is solid history and strong historical evidence for their authenticity. Unfortunately, I do not believe that Guru Gobind Singh actually desired a second granth as such because if he did, he would have compiled it before departing for his heavenly abode in 1708. Obviously, some of the 10th Guru banis were read by Sikhs from possibly about 1680 but definitely from 1699. Jaap sahib and the other 2 banis read at the Amrit Sanchar in 1699 have continued to be read by the Sikhs ever since. It is some of the less known parts of the Dasam Granth such as the banis of the various avtars, Charitropakhyan, etc which have caused controversy.

I believe that due to this issue, we have had various leaders who have given unnecessary urgency and importance of these not-so well known compositions within the dasam granth. The important parts of the Dasam Granth are recited daily by Sikhs, as are the most important banis of Guru Granth Sahib. Very few Sikhs in the world will ever read the whole of the dasam granth; so to have a heated debate and huge media circus appears to be a disproportionate reaction to the problem.

The section of the Dasam granth over which these issues are taking place are not issues that have any bearing on the everyday spiritual lives of any Sikh in the world. Most Sikhs derive adequate Spiritual knowledge just reading a small section of the sacred Guru Granth and so this is an big emotional storm in a very small teacup; and for political mileage, the SGPC is towing the line which will give it the maximum political advantage.

The SGPC are not really interested in the proper, gradual and ultimate research into this matter. After all, the dasam granth is a creation of the Sikhs; they can get it wrong. Which bani was written by the Guru and which was not is a matter that in this case was decided by Sikhs and so will always remain a matter under review. To suggest that the present version of the dasam granth can never be reviewed is a dangerous stand to take.

I believe that due to the very shaky historical background of how the banis were collected to be inserted in the dasam granth, this will never get the required seal of approval from the whole of the panth. And I think it would be foolish for any Sikh to assume that this granth can have the same status as the Guru Granth. The SGGS has the seal of the Sikh Gurus while the dasam granth does not. I believe that this is the most important point to bear in mind; this difference can never be forgotten.

I don't believe that the Ludhiana riot and the dasam granth controversy are linked although I may be wrong as good reliable news on the riots is not forthcoming in the UK. I think the riots are due to the insistence of the Sikh/Hindu cult leader Ashutosh to denigrate Gurbani and the Sikh religion. This surely is no way for any leader to behave. On the other hand Prof Darshan Singh continues to challenge passages in the dasam granth as composition which in his opinion cannot have been written by the 10th master.

So, please feel free to discuss any points that cause you to be uncomfortable. Regards, Hari Singhtalk 03:21, 12 December 2009 (UTC)


veer ji

Many thanks for alerting me. We appear to be get more and more of these on their user page which is a little more difficult to detect. Kind regards, Hari Singhtalk 06:32, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

Another addition - Veeri ji, Thanks for alerting me - page has been deleted and user barred. I am sure we will keeping getting these as I appear to be barring 1 user almost on a daily basis. Kind regards, Hari Singhtalk 11:58, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

=Replica of Golden Temple

Replica of Golden Temple, sir ji kindly work on first section of this article. it is still under construction.

Dasam Granth: I know you might be thinking what is happening on sikhiwiki related to Dasam Granth. Actually Sir these compositions were wrote by Guru Gobind Singh and collected and made a single granth by Sikhs of Gurus and they were not common sikhs but great sikhs ilke Baba Deep Singh, Bhai Mani SIngh, Baba Sukkha SIngh etc. When Guru Arjun Dev ji made Guru Granth Sahib he collected Banis of Gurus and also of Bhagats, for this purpose he send sikhs too to different locations. After writing Mundavani, guru ji also got more bani but Mundavani was end so it was considered as end of Guru Granth Sahib. After that guru ji was martyerd since some space was left which was later filled by bani of BAba tegh bahadur.

i have full faith in Guru Granth Sahib as guru, contains Ustat of Guru or God and Dasam Granth as secendory granth which supports Gurmat and Ustat of Gurmat.

(Lucky 13:56, 28 December 2009 (UTC))

witch-hunt? and suspect username

Bhai Sahib ji,

Many thanks for your warm wishes. May the Lord bless you and your family also in this final year of the first decade of the new century (millennium, as well). I watched with horror the video of the country where I was born; such darkness of conciousness? It reminds me of the lines by Bhai Gurdas ji about Guru Nanak: satiguru naanaku pragatiaa mitee dhundhu jagi chaananu hoaa. jiu kari sooraju nikaliaa taaray chhipay andhayru paloaa - With the emergence of Guru Nanak, the mist cleared and the world was showered in light; as if the sun had risen, the stars vanished and darkness was dispelled.

Kind regards for your excellent work and assistance again this year. G/Blakee has been blocked! Many thanks as always. The Lord's blessing and love to you all, Hari Singhtalk 03:35, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Happy New Year 2010

Richard ji,

Happy New Year to all of you,you are doing a great sewa on the sikhiwiki.May Almighty fulfill all yopur desire.

--user:sarbjeet_1313me 03:45, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Happy New Year

Happy New Year bro. May you blessed every day, every moment. (Lucky 07:10, 1 January 2010 (UTC))

Many Thanks for your dedication and service

Bhai Sahib ji, Sat Sri Akal

Many thanks again for another very successful year of dedicated service to the Guru here at SikhiWiki; May the Lord shower His blessing on you all. A very Happy New Year to you; may it bring His limitless blessings on all. Kind regards, Hari Singhtalk 14:36, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Bhai Sahib ji, Hope all is well? Have not seen you around; just wondering - Waheguru kirpa karan. Regards, Hari Singhtalk 10:30, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

sad videos

Bhai sahib ji, Sat Sri Akal

Many thanks for the links; as you say, very sad developments and discovery; I will respond in more detail later as this netbook I am using has limited facilities. Kind regards, Hari Singhtalk 02:20, 7 January 2010 (UTC)


Sir, Sarbjeet,Sarabjeet and Sarbhjeet have same meaning. Life is going in full speed. Missing ur mails. SSS

Born of superstition

Bhai Sahib ji

Many thanks for the link - obviously this weakness is found in many cultures! and also I am grateful for your words of wisdom and your support.

I am very concerned about the situation in Haiti; the scale of the destruction appears enormous. Only the Lord knows why such suffering is found in the world. May He bless the poor people. In 2004 we had the Boxing Day Tsunami and now in 2010 soon after Boxing Day we have this. The pictures are most disturbing; dead people just lying in the streets - no one bothering to bury or cremate the human corpse; very sad. There appears to be no respect for the dead; no concern to see to their last rites, etc.

Hopefully, this situation will change with the arrival of the international rescue people. May be when the locals see the way that the dead should be treated, they will "join in" and start seeing to this grim task. Kind regards, Hari Singhtalk 00:17, 15 January 2010 (UTC)


Bhai Sahib ji,

Sorry its taken me a few days before replying to your message; but we had a family do in the Midlands and so have only spent a minimum amount of "quality time" on the computer.

Many thanks as usual for such a detailed and considered response to my message and concerns with the situation in Haiti; I had never heard of some of the terms like "hell money" and the stand by religious authorities to promise "passes to heaven"! How amazing! I am surprised that people believed these "leaders"?

Although Gurbani say "You shall harvest what you plant"; I don't think that we should as a general practise make "global statements" like "guys deserve HIV". If the total of all our actions on a daily or monthly or yearly basis is negative then we are accumulating problems for ourselves for the future. Just like Robin Hood, a thief may rob the rich but give to the poor; I am not sure how the "karmic laws" would work but I think depending on the net karmic balance of the actions of the thief there would be a "balance" to settle later on - It is an area that is highly debatable and controversial! No one knows the real way in which the Lord works but to use His name to perform negative tasks is unjustified and an abuse.

As you say, Bhai sahib, the troubled areas in the world continue to gather negative momentum; only God knows where these place will end up. The level of human misery knows no bounds in these regions; for them any small sign of authority is a step in the right direction. However, parties like the Taliban are no long term solution; only by having a leadership who maintain justice can these grave difficulties be overcome.

Let us hope that some good comes to these regions soon! Regards, Hari Singhtalk 15:52, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Wat happened?

Sir ji, Satsriakal,wat happened you are not replying my mails. Hope all is well wid the grace of the Almighty. Sarbjeet Singh

Sir recd mail,Thanx

if you want to see my snaps please click my Albums

--user:sarbjeet_1313me 09:21, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Initial enthusiasm

Bhai sahib ji,

Many thanks for the message. I am hoping that some of these changes may be due to unfamiliarity with the wiki system; but as you correctly point out we need to be vigilant. Also, I find that many people in Punjab find it "offensive" to refer to "Guru Nanak" as just plain "Nanak" - they feel that this is rude and they will go about changing the reference to "Guru Nanak"; some go even further and always refer to "Nanak" as "Sri Guru Nanak"; obviously there is no limit to this and in some text I have seen all reference to Guru Nanak as "Maharaj Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji" - a real mouthful and in my opinion a hindrance to the reader; further I do not believe that it real is what the Guru would have desired.

It reminds me of the way Muslims refer to their holy where the suffix "peace be upon his name" or such like phrase is inserted after each reference to the name of the holy. I think this is all cosmetic as what real matters and the real test lies in how much respect one give to their teachings; surely the teaching of these spiritual beings is what is important and how much effort does one make to adhere to their words - surely that is what matters and necessary rather than cosmetic window-dressing which may make the person look high important; but no one is gives any importance to their message.

To use all these honorific references but not listen to any of their advice, to me appears a little hypocritical and I sure it would not have pleased Guru Nanak; he wanted us to tread the path of rigtheousness rather than give him all these wonderful titles.

Point has been noted, Sir; and carefully monitoring will ensue. Some changes are down to different styles and I believe that we should refrain from changing items which are grammatically correct but don't suit the readers style. Unfortunately, many "new-comers" do engage in this style changing but generally I find that after a burst of initial activity they settle down; the younger the contributor the more extended the burst period; as we have a lot of more ground to cover at SikhiWiki, I think further coverage is more important than "style enhancement".

This massive amount of work you have done is much appreciated; to make the article grammatically correct and also understandable to an average English reader is the most important task as otherwise the article is useless; further, typos and "old English" style make it difficult for reader to understand; I am very grateful for your excellent work. You have a fairly good understanding of the Sikhi philosophy and so can pick up some of the errors in concept that some have introduced to some of the articles. Let's see how things progress with some of the new contributors; hopefully things will calm down to a steady pace when they get a better focus on the work that is necessary.

Many thanks again. Hope all is well in the Richard household and that your health is at least stable if not on the mend and in chardikala; which is our prayer and desire. Bhai sahib ji, kind regards as ever and thanks for your very valuable service. Hari Singhtalk 15:22, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

comments by Sant reyn

Allenwala Ji, I know about Guru Gobind Singh ji's thoughts from reading and listening Bhai Sahib Bhai Veer Singh Ji's writings like Guru Gobind Singh Chamatkar, Twarikh Guru Khalsa by Giani Gian Singh Ji Nirmala, listening fro years to emiment scholars and saints like Mahant Baba Tirath Singh Ji Sevapanthi, the previous leader of the Sevapanthi Samprada and Mahant Baba Kahan Singh Ji, the current leader of the Sevapanthi Samprada, whose SANT REYN, 'DUST OF THEIR FEET' I am. Obviously, you do not know what I am talking about, now.

My name is Manvinder Singh. I reside in Wilton, CT and I will share some of your comments and opinions on Sikhiwiki with some of my 3HO friends or my friends that attend the solstice at New Mexico, maybe even Yogi Harbhajan Singh's relatives like his son-in-law, Satpal Kohli and his father, Malik Singh Kohli both of whom I have known for over 35 years.

I am not going to dignify your base condescending remarks to me in this 'User talk' because I realize that you are not familiar with the Sikh Philosophy 'at all'. At best you are an avid reader. Your reference to my USER NAME, SANT REYN, not understanding the meaning of it, and your comments about the Taliban, have told me a lot about you. It makes me wonder who the extremist is.

Please refrain from contacting me again, until I have brought this to the attention of Gurmustuk Singh, Hari Singh, the Akal Takht and Avtar Singh Makkar of the SGPC in Amritsar and the Damdami Taksal. I hope you know who these gentlemen and these institutions are. I am terribly concerned about your contributions, and I sincerely hope that there are no more like you for the sake by my Panth.

I may have bruised your ego. I did not mean to. I did not know I was editing your contributions.

Forgive me.

Vahegueu Ji Khalsa, Vaheguru ji Ki Fateh !

Manvinder Singh,Wilton, CT

People can all talk; but can they perform?

Bhai Sahib ji, Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh

Talking is an easy past-time and a relatively simple task to undertake; so it does not impress me when someone tries to achieve anything by just talking. Veer ji, they say "actions speak louder than words"; well, I believe that totally. What is really important in life are our actions in this world; on that count, as far as I am concerned your actions speak very loudly; I am a witness and obviously the Lord intrinsically will know all this anyway; also anyone who has any doubt can clearly see it all in the history of the pages upon pages that can be found here at Sikhiwiki.

I agree with you regarding the old tradition of frank and open discussion which were a part of all mature cultures; that's how friendship, lasting relationships and permanent understandings were forged between different peoples. These interactions did not just involve talking but a much deeper involvement between peoples with contrasting backgrounds and philosophies. This resulted in most cases to better understanding and lasting friendship between peoples of all cultures. Alas, that old tolerance, the "love to know about others", the recognition of a "level playing field" for all reasonable humans and the feeling of "global friendship" is fast disappearing in today's world. Most people, these days are controlled by their ego and pride; evils which the Gurus despised earnestly; these create a barrier between us. Instead of sharing and living in tranquillity, we live "at a distance" and in fear of one another! - a terrible development.

Instead of love for our fellow beings, the present generation begins most relationship with animosity rather than friendship. Bhai sahib, to me that explains the high level of tension between different cultures and peoples these days; and the disease is widespread and can be found everywhere. That's is why the lesson of love dispersed by Guru Nanak is so important for the world. Many times I wonder how this beautiful message of the Guru can be scattered more widely and more effectively so that the seeds of love and friendship germinate in every heart!

Veer ji, "reyn" ਰੈਨ s  means "in the dust of the feet" and is a sign of extreme humbleness and nimrata; a must have quality of a Gurmukh or "God-aligned" person. Veer ji, giving a label to someone is one thing but to live to the expectation of that label is another thing altogether. Many Gurus and Sants can be found in the world today but none that I know of have actually shown the real characteristics of such a noble title; only the Lord knows the inner working of the minds of everyone.

In fact Guru Nanak called himself a slave; even God's dog, etc. I can't remember any reference where the Guru calls himself a Guru? The world, other Gurus and the others generally gave Nanak this title. That is the honourable way!

Regarding knowing "living people who know what Guru Gobind Singh said" is scientifically not possible unless this is another "world first"! I am not aware of this at all. The Guru physically departed from Earth in 1708; for someone to live on from that time would mean that they would be over 300 years old now. Science tells us this is impossible.

Remain in chardikala and may the supreme power be in your heart always; sadh Guru dee fateh; Remember always, Victory is God's! Kind regards, Hari Singhtalk 15:58, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

PS: I don't believe that the Akal Takhat has any jurisdiction, power or authority outside Punjab let alone outside India! We work here as a small team attempting to spread the loving message of the Gurus. Fortunately, with Guru's kirpa, we have almost 400,000 hits per month on the site; perhaps even if one or two people are effected by the message of the Guru from this site then I feel very happy that we are moving in the correct direction. That is the aim of our little team and our only mission. Cheers, Hari Singhtalk 16:21, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

My Papa, the perfect Sikh of the Guru

Veer ji,

The lady is referring to an "adopted" father who took care of her and her husband in the past when the husband became seriously ill. The adopted father or Papaji took great care of them despite him belonging to another samaj (faith or culture or tradition). (Papaji is a very common word used to refer to father in Punjabi and sometimes used to refer to any elderly male Sikh by non-Sikhs in India - in a loving manner / as protector or guardian, etc )

When the article begins, she is now living with her 3 daughters in a village where there are no Sikhs; both Papaji and her husband have died. When a Sikh visits that village, she goes to meet this Sikh visitor to tell him about her past experience with this adopted father who she refers to as "My papaji". This is her way of acknowledging the sense of gratitude and deep respect for Papaji and to Sikhi generally for the loving way in which Papaji looked after her and her family.

Does that help? Please ask me more if it is still not clear. As you say the article is littered with punjabi words but as it moved me, I decided quickly to put it on SikhiWiki as motivation for other Sikhs to mimic the lovely qualities of Papaji. Regards, Hari Singhtalk 16:13, 5 February 2010 (UTC)